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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    There is also the fact that a well geared red line LM will do more burst aoe dps than a champ easily which is all the trash is about in T2. We often take two LMs and go dps for the boss taking turns for the debuffs etc.

    We started this to train other LMs on the CC and found out that no champ is not such a big deal especially in Lightning, the LM stuns the crawler spawns then aoe's them down. Personally with the Draigoch set on (don't use macros) have had ents crits not devastates on 4 targets of over 14k......., add lightning storm and a couple of sticky gourd's and cracked earths, + all the usual support stuff (defubbs heals pwr share etc) and you have a pretty capable damage class so why not use it.

    Also I'm probably wrong but isn't stacking a certain class to get something done easily a bit boring and takes the fun out of it.

    We don't take two Lms all the time but if two mains sign up then there is no harm it works well for us anyway.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by spockerized View Post
    Let's look at this from the most logical point. A squishy class that really only makes the job of a healer harder when faced with burst damage. The actual damage done by a Lm is laughable and the pets hit for what 64? What is always the first class to die... The LM. Look at these points.

    1. The Bosses that anyone does in ToO are zerg bosses no need for CC.
    2. Because how short the bosses are the debuffs actually help mitigate what damage.
    3. Since most of the damage that happens in these fights is melee seems logical to stack burgs.. More debuffs+outgoing damage.
    4. At this point everyone should have enough ICPR or class skills to sustain dps plus the fights are short again. You bring a lm just for Power looks like a fail raid.
    5. If you bring a class for 1 skill say SI looks like the raid is fail?

    Sorry to burst your bubble but someone had to say it.
    I don't completly agree with you, but I must admit that LM seam getting less useful...

    Acid, Shadow and FnF wings are Zerg pull rooms, but not Lightning's nor Saruman's, cc there is needed.

    Sadly none AM speced LM debuff aren't that useful; I suggested in my post...


    to make Deep Lore increase lore duration instead of maximum target and move the maximum target increase into the 3 traits set bonus of AM line.

    That would allow debuff to be more relevent since they would last as long as CD.

    there I don't agree, burg don't have more debuff and they are more prone to die since they are melee.

    There I agree.
    Only in few long boss fight did raid are getting power issue; most of the time, if a class go OOP, it means that they are doing something wrong....
    Cappy got song-bro/inspire switch and now for wrath RC
    Mini got the Anthem of Composure/coda PoT
    Champ Second Wind/Vigour of Champion, Controlled Burn... I only get OOP when using in mid fight but with Vigour of Champion/Second Wind I can nullify that.
    ...( I won't list all the classes that's not the point)

    Well there is still many skill that are useful: anti-stun/root/daze, just GoW debuff is quite useful.
    but yes LM isn't as much a REquirement as they used to be.

    As for DPS well even deep DPS traited LM cannot do as much as RK/hunter/Champ deep DPS, but they do more damage then Cappy for sure.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Adingostolemybaby View Post
    There is also the fact that a well geared red line LM will do more burst aoe dps than a champ easily which is all the trash is about in T2.
    MMM no, Champ DS4 or 5 can ditch out more AoE dps then LM... in 3 seconds:
    Battle Acuity,
    Battle Frenzy, Raging blade
    Blade Wall, Swift Blade, Blade Storm.
    then after just reapply rend armour debuff
    and repeat the mantra:
    Blade Wall, Swift Blade, Blade Storm/Raging Blades.

    What have done the LM in 3 seconds?... at best... ancient craft + Lightning Storm and Storm Lore...5 minute CD o.O

    Off course most Champ are 4r/3y 2handers, those don't put as much AoE as a DW 4y/3b.

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Sorry, don't know to know champs too well so probably shouldn't make a big assumption apologies, however, I know from experience that when a champ hasn't been available and we take a dps Lm the pulls go just as well. Perhaps this is down to the extra debuffs and the fact that a lot of the aoe attacks have a cc element to them.

    In lightning, we like most have been grinding it a while so try new pulls out to make it a bit less boring so tend to pull everything now bar trolls and have a big messy fight for a bit of fun The LM aoe CC / Damage seems to work really well there.

    Also....I would say your mistaken about LM dmg. Yes, they have cool downs which are perfectly suited for orthanc as each room takes near enough that amount of time give or take a min or so and when moving to the next the attacks are usually off cd.

    Ents, LS, SL, cracked earth with enough mobs for them to be useful will do enough dps to burn down the 2-3 sets of crawlers and give you some hefty damage on the larger mobs too (haulers, TMs)

    Just another way to use a LM to the same or close to affect as the traditional champ.
    Last edited by Adingostolemybaby; Jul 13 2012 at 06:33 AM.


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