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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    565

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0c214000000051de2/signature.png]Naethromraw[/charsig]

  2. #52

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    This week: LMs aren't useful. Next week: Oxygen not required to breathe.

    We always take 2 LMs with us to T2 Orthanc. I'd feel naked trying to do Acid wing without them. When CC is not required one specs to DPS and they parse only slightly under our DPS classes but also bring many added benefits with their arsenal.

  3. #53

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    Quote Originally Posted by spockerized View Post
    What is always the first class to die... The LM.
    I'm always the last one to die... so, no...
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  4. #54

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    Our kin runs ToO tier 2 every week and we clear challenge on lighting/acid and shadow I can go dps or full AM and no one not the tanks or healers notice the difference to the damage being done to the group. I will admit though I go AM or DPS depending on the group make up, I am also there to give power and on fights like acid to aoe nuke the adds as that is far more benefit to the group with my burst dps than debuffing the boss! I don't like this road that the LM has gone down, if I wanted a dps class of this nature I would have rolled a RK. But it is what it is and I will stubbornly keep debuffing away, who knows one day I might need it again

    However try and clear the trash in ToO without a LM at least there a LM can shine in there normal role of CC masters, Gotheron imo was the best fight for a LM how I wish that ToO had a boss like that
    Last edited by Alydariel; Apr 21 2012 at 09:42 AM.
    [CENTER]No one notice's what i do, until i stop doing it. - A LM quote[/CENTER]

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Ettenmoors
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    426

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    If you're an epic fail LM then they are useless. Pro LMs are amazing.
    Try to kill a mini and a champ :P and a mini and a lore master !! Who survive ? the debuffing group with a fail dps or the melee grop with more armor and damage and bubble ?

    Debuff are good but not enout for a proper battle, only 30 sec while you are dps traited and ... yes you can help with stun but you don't decrease incoming healing you don't increase really the damage ... all your skill have a lot of induction/animation ... and the stun atm is really short while the enemy have 2 defiler ...

    A lore master can kill a skilled defiler ? Tbh my power go out and defiler still be full
    Same for a good warg ... how many resist you will see and interrupt ???

    well at last ... I think with kite only the poor reaver can die atm :P

    If you wanna talk about rank 0 sure ... stiky for all and i can kill 2 in the same time but not a good creep

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    125

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    LMs are far from useless, but it's true that the CC aspect has been diminished by time. LM got good dps, and debuffs help when you do big pulls, or during hard hitting bosses. Stun immunity and wound cure are very needed, and power share is good to have as backup, though it's not much needed outside raids anymore.

    The days of SoA are long gone, but we're still very good and wanted in groups. Take another champ for aoe instead of lm for instance? you miss all the debuffs, wound cure, SI etc. and don't gain THAT much more dps. Who knows if the run would be even slower, as SI on tank, aoe stuns and 8+ target firelore are pretty nice when doing big pulls.
    [COLOR=#0000ff]~ Magellanic Moonsorrow ~ R13 ~ [/COLOR]
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  7. #57
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    257

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    So, there's 4 pages of arguing with a guy that has a troll face as their profile picture...*facepalm*

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    89

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    I just realized who made this thread..trololol.
    Barillas
    75 Lore-master - Entropy - Brandywine
    Founding member of Team Awesome

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Second star to the right and straight until morning... til you reach Neverland...
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    2,018

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    Quote Originally Posted by hisoka-thorongil View Post
    So, there's 4 pages of arguing with a guy that has a troll face as their profile picture...*facepalm*
    Is that what those pictures are? Every time I see them, I'd think it is a wrinkly LOL Bill Cosby or Louie Armstrong picture. I still don't see it, but eh, good to know. Will attempt to avoid feeding them from now on.
    !<3?!Wargs Rule!!?<3! But only because we have no playable feline races.
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    Founder & Altoholic: playing wargies and loremistresses since 2006 SoA beta.*Jingle Jangle!*
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  10. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Inside of Lotro
    Posts
    2,024

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    Just get rid of induction setback from damage on all induction classes and I'll be happy. Or at least drastically reduce the setbacks. Also brands and in combat brands are just stupid. They make nearly all LM skills useless. Whereas against most dps classes it hardly affects anything at all. Especially ones with in combat sprints. Why have an item that gives you godmode status over a select few classes? That's BS turbine.
    Last edited by babaju2; Apr 22 2012 at 05:41 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/012030100000db067/signature.png]Krillinun[/charsig]
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  11. #61
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Mississippi
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    1,477

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    I talked with Ivythorn about this the other day. It'd be neat if the devs gave Loremasters their good -lore debuffs by default. That way, an LM could trait red AND still accomplish one of their primary support functions with the debuffs, making them more relevant to ToO DPS-race farm runs. Look at Captains: we bring our buffs no matter what we're traited. If the situation calls for me dropping some blue traits for more red traits, I got nothing holding me back.

    I don't know where that leaves yellow line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barillas View Post
    I just realized who made this thread..trololol.
    Haha, yes, had me laughing when I first saw this thread.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/03202000000363f98/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
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  12. #62
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    231

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    Sadly Agree

    esp. for Tank/Heal/DPS 3 mans

  13. #63

    AW: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    LOL! There are some bosses which are impossible without an Lm. For example Bukot Tier t2, saruman could become a big problem too.....and a lot of others.

    Bit it´s right that theLm was more important in other raids in the past.
    But you can´t say that the Lm is useless
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  14. #64
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    5

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    The lore master if played correctly is never the first to die and can deal some quite nice ranged and melee damage, in fact our staff strike has the highest melee damage in the game at low levels. Our debuffs and stuns are far more powerfully than a burg's plus we have more of a selection and can stun more then one mob at a timeif I remember correctly, we can also share our power with the rest of the group and regenerate our own by sapping the enemys in a drawn out fight everyone tends to go low on power the first and foremost of these is the minstrel ( I should know I have a level 32 minstrel myself) and in a drawn out fight it's a bad thing to lose you're healer. So all in all the lore master is still a pretty usefull and powerfully class.

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    13

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    Quote Originally Posted by anteku View Post
    I think the others have made good points.

    Regarding the quoted text, this isn't true from my experience. In our group, the LM is usually among the last 3 people to die. Perhaps your LMs would benefit from new positioning, stacking morale, and retraiting some virtues. In fact, there are a few parts where we actually do a little LM-tanking (e.g. the LM catches the boulders in FnF T2). I don't want to oversell this last point, but do want to note out that we can be fairly sturdy.
    Well said, we might not do massive damage when traited for debuffs but this means we aren't high on the aggro list either so we don't get killed first when something goes wrong. I know I'm often one of the last to die and I can only assume the OPs squishy dying LMs are standing in stupid places.

  16. #66

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    Ha, I gotta say it.
    When I started my LM this was my thought exactly.
    I got tired of random people asking me to tank for them (or worse, random invites) so I started a new toon that no one would want.

  17. #67

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    I agree, that tanks are in high demand, but to state, that no one searches for an lm is simply wrong. I had to decline 3 ims invitations to rof T2 in about 1 hour, while playing my lm to help some kinmates.
    lvl 85 lm (main), lvl 85 champ, lvl 85 rk, lvl 85 hunter, lvl 85 minni

  18. #68

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    My kin doesn't have too many Loremasters in it, and I can tell that they're eager for Lieselotte (my LM) to hit 75 so that I can take our lead LM's place and free him up to use his other characters more in endgame content.

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5

    Re: AW: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    I'm confused? If debuffs aren't really good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alydariel View Post
    Our kin runs ToO tier 2 every week and we clear challenge on lighting/acid and shadow I can go dps or full AM and no one not the tanks or healers notice the difference to the damage being done to the group.
    What do Lm's do again... oh power that's right.


    Quote Originally Posted by Endurion_Eldar View Post
    I'm always the last one to die... so, no...
    Even after the healers... so what are you doing when your group is wiping into oblivion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brunhilder View Post
    LOL! There are some bosses which are impossible without an Lm. For example Bukot Tier t2, saruman could become a big problem too.....and a lot of others.
    Dang lots of bosses in this game can't wait to find out :P


    I think the OP's on to something.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320201000048bad5/signature.png]Bunathefriend[/charsig]

  20. #70

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guiwinner View Post
    Debuff are good but not enout for a proper battle, only 30 sec while you are dps traited and ... yes you can help with stun but you don't decrease incoming healing you don't increase really the damage ... all your skill have a lot of induction/animation ... and the stun atm is really short while the enemy have 2 defiler ...

    A lore master can kill a skilled defiler ? Tbh my power go out and defiler still be full
    Same for a good warg ... how many resist you will see and interrupt ???

    well at last ... I think with kite only the poor reaver can die atm :P

    If you wanna talk about rank 0 sure ... stiky for all and i can kill 2 in the same time but not a good creep
    Not everything involves 1vs1 farmfests like on certain servers. In groups 4+ an AM debuffing LM is the most awesomest class to bring. Fire-lore = instant. Wind-lore = instant. SoP:C = instant. Frost-lore = instant. Those 4 skills alone are tremendous debuffs with no inductions. Then of course there is always SoP:R to prevent stuns/mezzes/knockdowns and to cure silences on minis/captains/RKs. Then group cure for wounds/diseases. Having permanent tar down is beneficial. Being able to debuff 8+ targets instead of 3 is a game-changer.

    Debuffing LMs are able to turn the dps of 18 creeps into the dps of like 8 creeps. That is how potent their debuffs/skills are when used to the full effect. Of course a scrub LM would turn down that ability in group/raid environment. If you think you're bringing significant dps to the raid on LM, roll a hunter or champ.

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    515

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    Quote Originally Posted by spockerized View Post
    actual damage done by a Lm is laughable
    You are talking about your LM right?

    Regards
    CA

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,587

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    Quote Originally Posted by CaerArianrhod View Post
    You are talking about your LM right?

    Regards
    CA
    When traited for support he's absolutely right. DPS-traited our damage isn't too shabby, but an LM doing that kind of damage is pretty useless for any of the LM's other roles and is wasting a slot a good damage dealer could use.

  23. #73

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    I find loads of people asking for LMs, also i think we bring many things to the table in groups.

    We can do a bit of heal (i forgot how many times ive saved a healers butt with a simple beacon of hope because they forget to heal themselves).

    We debuff to hell and back...we increase miss chance, decrease evade, increase crit, decrease armour, decrease ranged dmg, decrease attacks, increase dmg output, decrease tactical dmg. Not to mention we give power and i can tell you even now, i have to give tons of power to people; so whoever said giving power is not needed any more are either with people who slack, or just don't utilize the benefits of a good power topper

    Oh and anti stun...still one of the most useful buffs in the game imo. (Certain mobs stun the tank, when that happens aggro is lost..who gets the brunt of the mobs angry rage then? usually the healer Lms can counter that with one simple flick of a wrist, who else can do that?)

    Damage output, i have heard so many different stories on this, i personally have geared up towards dmg dealing as i duo/3 man things in-game and i can blast out a ton of damage. We are not exactly on the top of the list for single target dmg but aoe is pretty huge from what i have seen/done/witnessed.

    On the dying front i never die first, a good lm is also careful and knows when to use wisdom, a pot, inner flame, spirit pet heals etc etc. (also if the tank your with is good enough a shield wall will go a long way) ;-p

    It is all down to how well the lm plays and how well people play around the lm, if you don't know the full potential of an lm then i guess you wont get the most out of one.

    Definitely not useless though
    Last edited by OukannaV; May 01 2012 at 02:03 PM.

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,385

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    Just in case anyone was still interested in this silliness, these screenies pretty much sum it up:







    They're the first 2 saruman T2 kills and the first two F&F T2 challenge kills and based on time to kill you'd have to say these are possibly the hardest bosses that Turbine's ever released. Guess what class is represented in every group?

    This was exactly the point some of us were making earlier - when you're doing content that's actually HARD (ie not just faceroll farming stuff), LMs are important.
    [url=http://docholidaymmo.com/tag/lore-mastery/]Lore-mastery[/url] - A weekly column discsussing end game lore-master play.

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    10

    Re: The LM Just isn't Useful Anymore!

    I think LM's are really useful. I was greatly criticized for getting a LM by my friends and now they are all starting them seeing as how cool they are. One great thing about them is their skills for helping individuals. When your on a quest to keep someone alive and kill the raiders or whatever you can keep them with tons of health. I was on a skirm the other day with Wardens, Guardians and a Captian and i was supplying everyone with power to do their damage and without LM's they would run out of it
    Learn a class and stop criticizing it when you dont need to.
    .

    I LOVE LOTRO!!

 

 
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