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  1. #1

    Question Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    I've tried searching but was unable to find a discussion on this. If I missed some info, I'd be very grateful if you could point me towards it!

    So: now that we have Seals and Medallions as our 'current' barter tokens, I'm assuming that we will continue to have that in Rohan and future expansions. I seem to recall Turbine saying something about not having to invent new tokens for every update, a'la Superior 2nd, 3rd, 4th and so on.

    Question is, will our current amount of tokens remain the same as the expansion goes live, or are there plans/decisions to auto-downgrade them a'la Blizzard? For those who do not know what I mean, in WoW there is a similar setup of 2 main barter tokens, and for each tier upgrade (new raid, new expansion), the highest-level currency gets auto-degraded to the lower one, and the lower one remains or gets converted to gold if the new amount is above their cap for that currency. The reason is obvious: disallowing players to hoard up on the top barter token so they can cash in a new set of gear the very minute the new content goes live.

    Hence the question is: when Rohan goes live, will our current Seals be downgraded to Medallions, and our current Medallions be converted to Marks, remain the same, or how will it work? Knowing before-hand would be nice, as it would clearly dictate how my characters will use their marks up until the expansion.

  2. #2
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    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    As far as I know there has nothing been said about that yet. But I expect a third possibility, they inflate rewards and costs. You might hoard enough to get one or two pieces at new high prices, but not everything. The new content will be more efficiënt to get the rest of the set in a reasonable time.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    Whenever the next "tier" comes out (most likely with Rohan) all seals will be converted into medallions. Whether there will be a medallion cap is unknown, but I don't believe they mentioned it. If there is then excess medallions will probably become marks.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawlor View Post
    Whenever the next "tier" comes out (most likely with Rohan) all seals will be converted into medallions. Whether there will be a medallion cap is unknown, but I don't believe they mentioned it. If there is then excess medallions will probably become marks.
    And as part of that, I believe that current purchase prices that require seals should be changed to only require medallions. If all that is done correctly, then anything you could purchase before should still be purchasable afterwards. It should maintain the status quo while preventing anyone from just buying the new set on the first day using stock-piled seals.
    Last edited by mjk47; Apr 11 2012 at 05:55 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawlor View Post
    Whenever the next "tier" comes out (most likely with Rohan) all seals will be converted into medallions. Whether there will be a medallion cap is unknown, but I don't believe they mentioned it. If there is then excess medallions will probably become marks.
    I haven't seen anything indicating this- Do you have a link to where a dev said this?

    I suspect the next tier raid gear will have a higher cost than the current gear, and will be gated through a deed, so even if you have the seals to buy it, you can't use it until you actually complete the raid content.

  6. #6

    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawlor View Post
    Whenever the next "tier" comes out (most likely with Rohan) all seals will be converted into medallions.
    Is that a fact or your take on it? Those are my thoughts too, but I haven't seen anyone from Turbine mentioning it, hence the thread.

    Also, DobbelB - yes, that makes sense, I didn't think of that! Thanks for your input.

  7. #7

    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    Quote Originally Posted by Sthrax View Post
    ..and will be gated through a deed, so even if you have the seals to buy it, you can't use it until you actually complete the raid content.
    Also a good point, and probably will happen no matter if our currency is touched or not.

  8. #8
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    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    I hope they do anything but inflate the prices, the costs would become ridiculous with each new instance cluster. The reset sounds like it would be better, but I don't want to lose all my medallions either.
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  9. #9

    AW: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    We have zero information on this yet. But the downgrading of seals is the most logical thing to do.
    It is the only way to level the playing field again without introducing yet another barter currency.

    IF the seals were kept and RoR launched with no extra barter coins and simply increased costs, you will have a gigantic disparity between players. Raiding players can easily have thousands of seals by now. I´d be at about 2000 now if I hadnt gone on a little spending spree last week, and that is with two toons already kitted out. By the time RoR arrives, those could be about 6000 seals.

    So even if the new sets will cost 5 times of what they cost now, I´d be able to get them right away. Someone else will have to struggle for a long time. The only way to make up for this disparity would be that new instances give vastly more seals and medallions. That however means that everything else in the skirm camp will be dirt cheap.

    The only obvious way to keep a level playing field, not introduce a new currency and keep most of the old costs untouched is a force downgrade of seals.

  10. #10

    Re: AW: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandervahn View Post
    We have zero information on this yet. But the downgrading of seals is the most logical thing to do.
    It is the only way to level the playing field again without introducing yet another barter currency.
    And I think it would be the good explanation as to why there is no medallions->seals barter.

    If there were to be a downgrade at some point, you definitely don't want to have the option to horde medallions and then upgrade.

    It would be nice to know either way, though we may have to wait until RoR.
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  11. #11

    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    Totally agree with you, Vandervahn. Good post!

    I was hoping for some sort of confirmation in any direction, but as has been pointed out it may be too early yet.

  12. #12
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    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    I'd be fine with seals getting downgraded to medallions in order to have to do more content after RoR for new armor, but I hope that hoarding has at least some benefit, such as being able to spend them on lvl 85 empowerment scrolls.
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    Re: AW: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandervahn View Post
    We have zero information on this yet. But the downgrading of seals is the most logical thing to do.
    It is the only way to level the playing field again without introducing yet another barter currency.

    IF the seals were kept and RoR launched with no extra barter coins and simply increased costs, you will have a gigantic disparity between players. Raiding players can easily have thousands of seals by now. I´d be at about 2000 now if I hadnt gone on a little spending spree last week, and that is with two toons already kitted out. By the time RoR arrives, those could be about 6000 seals.

    So even if the new sets will cost 5 times of what they cost now, I´d be able to get them right away. Someone else will have to struggle for a long time. The only way to make up for this disparity would be that new instances give vastly more seals and medallions. That however means that everything else in the skirm camp will be dirt cheap.

    The only obvious way to keep a level playing field, not introduce a new currency and keep most of the old costs untouched is a force downgrade of seals.
    This exactly, or they might just start adding new currency (it wouldn't surprise me despite their intentions) or they might tie the new raid armour to yet another medallion currency outside skirmish ala medallions of moria/north men etc, or they could always go back to roll on loot drop win get piece no grind method. It is always possible they will just gate it behind raid completion and the dedicated raiders will be able to buy the lot off the bat too of course..but that's probably the least likely.
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    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    Why would they have to downgrade seals? Yes, hardcore raiders have a stash of seals and they'll be able to buy the full set of whatever new gear there is, as soon as they unlock it. But, really, those are the kind of players that will have a full suit within a few weeks, anyway.

    A forced downgrade, or a new currency, only really punishes casual players who dont earn seals faster than they can spend them. Plus, it sends the message that, once you have the gear, there's no point in doing group content anymore, because whatever you earn will just get taken away before you have something else to spend it on...

    I'm fine with allowing a small subset of players to have instant access to the new loot. They earned their seals doing endgame content, after all, its not like they got them for free. It will just mean they either end up bored a couple weeks sooner, or they'll continue to raid anyway (the likely scenario given that they've already raided a lot), so no actual change in outcome. It will protect the game for more casual players, which I think is a much larger subset of the playerbase.
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  15. #15

    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    I have a very vague recollection that when marks/medallions/seals were introduced, it was stated that they would be the simplified currency forevermore. (I may have read or interpreted wrong, but that's the interpretation I've held.) Since the Orthanc sets were hardly much better than the Draigoch set I had, I haven't spent a single seal since they were introduced, precisely because I was hoarding them until the next expansion, allowing me to cash in. There's nothing unfair about this, and I hope it's true. Earners and savers should reap their rewards.
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  16. #16
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    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    Why would they have to downgrade seals? Yes, hardcore raiders have a stash of seals and they'll be able to buy the full set of whatever new gear there is, as soon as they unlock it. But, really, those are the kind of players that will have a full suit within a few weeks, anyway.

    A forced downgrade, or a new currency, only really punishes casual players who dont earn seals faster than they can spend them. Plus, it sends the message that, once you have the gear, there's no point in doing group content anymore, because whatever you earn will just get taken away before you have something else to spend it on...

    I'm fine with allowing a small subset of players to have instant access to the new loot. They earned their seals doing endgame content, after all, its not like they got them for free. It will just mean they either end up bored a couple weeks sooner, or they'll continue to raid anyway (the likely scenario given that they've already raided a lot), so no actual change in outcome. It will protect the game for more casual players, which I think is a much larger subset of the playerbase.
    As one of those people who would be able to buy a full set (or more) of level 85 armor if Seals aren't downgraded, I don't support allowing us to do so. Why should we be able to purchase level 85 armor later for beating level 75 content now? Make us beat level 85 content to get level 85 gear.

  17. #17
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    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    Quote Originally Posted by Lestache View Post
    As one of those people who would be able to buy a full set (or more) of level 85 armor if Seals aren't downgraded, I don't support allowing us to do so. Why should we be able to purchase level 85 armor later for beating level 75 content now? Make us beat level 85 content to get level 85 gear.
    Why should any of your Alts get to use shared seals/meds/marks from the wallet today? Your argument is invalid.

  18. #18
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    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    Quote Originally Posted by JeauxLOTR View Post
    Why should any of your Alts get to use shared seals/meds/marks from the wallet today? Your argument is invalid.
    Frankly, I don't think that my alts should get to use seals, medallions, and marks that my main earned, but I can neither change that part of the system nor do I see how it invalidates my point. At worst, if I choose to buy an alt a piece of Orthanc gear (which I haven't done), at least I'm buying level 75 gear with a currency earned beating level 75 content.

    I fail to see how that invalidates my argument that I shouldn't be able to buy level 85 gear with a currency earned beating level 75 content. If you wouldn't mind elaborating on why you think my argument is invalid, I'd love to hear it.

    And furthermore, if you do feel that my argument is invalid, is it safe to say that you think we should be able to save up Seals now to buy level 85 gear later? If so, why? And at what point does that system become ridiculous? Can I save up enough now to buy level 95 gear two years from now? Or level 105 gear in three years?

  19. #19
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    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    I see your argument as invalid for two reasons. We just had a Currency Consolidation to seals/Med/Marks. This was done to get rid of the mass of seperate items used to buy items.

    1. By wanting to use level 85 currency to buy level 85 gear you are either (1) in favor of a new currency or (2) want to see some mechanic put in place that would track when currency is obtained or (3) are in favor of a massive inflation for the purchase of higher level gear. All three of these options are bad as far a I am concerned.

    2. Your argement also seems to forget that we all used currency we had already earned to exchange for Seals/Med to buy the first set of level 75 gear.

    I can see a reasonable increase per item for level 85 gear, but without knowledge of what new skirmish/instances/raids RoR will bring or if there is even a chance of anything new - not to mention how much these mythical raids will earn us - the only option I can see is to use what we already have as part of the purchase cost of the level 85 items.


    If anyone has a better plan, please post away.

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    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    Quote Originally Posted by JeauxLOTR View Post
    I see your argument as invalid for two reasons. We just had a Currency Consolidation to seals/Med/Marks. This was done to get rid of the mass of seperate items used to buy items.

    1. By wanting to use level 85 currency to buy level 85 gear you are either (1) in favor of a new currency or (2) want to see some mechanic put in place that would track when currency is obtained or (3) are in favor of a massive inflation for the purchase of higher level gear. All three of these options are bad as far a I am concerned.

    2. Your argement also seems to forget that we all used currency we had already earned to exchange for Seals/Med to buy the first set of level 75 gear.

    I can see a reasonable increase per item for level 85 gear, but without knowledge of what new skirmish/instances/raids RoR will bring or if there is even a chance of anything new - not to mention how much these mythical raids will earn us - the only option I can see is to use what we already have as part of the purchase cost of the level 85 items.


    If anyone has a better plan, please post away.
    I'm in favor of the option an earlier poster mentioned: Seals remain the top-level currency, but all of our current seals are downgraded to Medallions when RoR launches (and, presumably, Medallions are downgraded to Marks). So in a way, our existing Seals will still count towards the new gear, but only towards the easier-to-obtain part of the cost (assuming the medallions + Seals paradigm remains).

    I agree with your assessment of the three options you presented in point #1 (with my reasoning for each): new currency bad (we have enough barter tokens already - no need to keep adding a new type with every new expansion or instance cluster); tracking when currency is obtained bad (too much work on their part, and probably confusing to many players ("some of my Seals count and some don't - wth?!")), and; price inflation bad (leads to a system in which those who've been playing longer have a larger and larger advantage over newer players with each expansion).

    As for point #2, I'm aware that we traded our Superior Fourth Marks for Seals a while back, giving some folks a bit of head start. I'd like to think that this was a one-time thing caused by the fact that Turbine decided to change - for the fourth or fifth time in three years - the way that we obtain the end-game armor set, and not indicative of how each new armor set will be obtained. Hopefully they've finally settled on a system that they're willing to stick with (for better or worse).

  21. #21
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    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    A downgrade of seals/Med serves no purpose and may punish those who have not yet completed their level 75 armour set by the time RoR launches. You have to keep in mind that there will always be players part way to completing a set and a downgrade punishes them just because of an arbitrary launch date.

    The only logical way to do new armour sets is to require a Token for each piece as is done today. But since there has been no word on any new instances who knows how these may be earned.

    Maybe there will be no new end game sets because of lack of raid content. Maybe crafted armour will be the next best set. Maybe KIN with RoR will be the best set. Truth told, we don't know enough about what is coming to make a valid choice of what each of us thinks might be the best way.

  22. #22

    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    Quote Originally Posted by JeauxLOTR View Post
    A downgrade of seals/Med serves no purpose and may punish those who have not yet completed their level 75 armour set by the time RoR launches. You have to keep in mind that there will always be players part way to completing a set and a downgrade punishes them just because of an arbitrary launch date.
    Not when the prices are adjusted downwards accordingly. As we have seen with Helegrod or Annuminas gear, or OD armor for example, in a different way. Remove the seals price from orthanc=remove the problem you describe.

    The only logical way to do new armour sets is to require a Token for each piece as is done today.
    Does not compute.
    Last edited by Vandervahn; Jun 06 2012 at 04:32 AM.

  23. #23
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    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    I would find the downgrading of seals to be quite frustrating. I don't have the opportunity to raid like some players. I live in Asia and so it can be difficult for me to find raids when I play. That means I really have to save seals and medallions in order to get gear. I never have done a ToO raid because there's just no one running them when I'm on. Because I can't raid, there's just not much for my level 75 to do at end game so I've been running the isenguard 3-man and some of the 6-man content in order to save up enough seals for my level 65 captain who's working on cap. If they downgrade my seals, then my alt is screwed and all that time I spent earning seals for my alt is gone.

    Sure, some would argue that having seals in your account wallet isn't right, but it's what it is and I'm making use of the system as it is now. So, taking that away would be a big issue for me.

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  24. #24
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    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    Quote Originally Posted by Widoch View Post
    I would find the downgrading of seals to be quite frustrating. I don't have the opportunity to raid like some players. I live in Asia and so it can be difficult for me to find raids when I play. That means I really have to save seals and medallions in order to get gear. I never have done a ToO raid because there's just no one running them when I'm on. Because I can't raid, there's just not much for my level 75 to do at end game so I've been running the isenguard 3-man and some of the 6-man content in order to save up enough seals for my level 65 captain who's working on cap. If they downgrade my seals, then my alt is screwed and all that time I spent earning seals for my alt is gone.

    Sure, some would argue that having seals in your account wallet isn't right, but it's what it is and I'm making use of the system as it is now. So, taking that away would be a big issue for me.
    I'm fairly confident that if (when?) Seals are downgraded, it won't be done without the ToO and Draigoch armor prices being adjusted to only need medallions and marks, instead of seals and medallions, as Vandervahn said.

  25. #25

    Re: Seals and Medallions in Rohan

    The simple solution is to add deed locks on the teal armour pieces like the Orthank armour. Finish content to use gear.

    Alternative sets can be made with different difficulty/requirement to gain them. ex:

    set 1) Like current dragon, set with lower stats, "worse" set bonuses, small number of seals/medalions. 4 pieces locked behind reputation levels of new factions. ex 2 new factions, 2 highest levels unlock the 4 pieces. Last 2 pieces from content.

    set 2) Like Orthank sets. From a full raid, 1 boss for each piece. High barter requirement.

    So there is a requirement to complete new content to get new pieces, and the difficulty of the content will allow access to easy/better sets.

    But have all sets available from day one, otherwise players will gear up with the first teal sets available and wont bother much with the next sets.

    Regarding the seal/medalion barter costs at lvl85, keep them the same as lvl75 but reduce gray content rewards. Something like skirmishes. Useing 50 seals at lvl cap, running a content at 10lvls below you gives 50% reward reduction (25 seals), at 20lvls below reward drops to 25% (13 seals), etc. Players can stock up seals/medalions for next level cap, but once they barter them they will have to restock and most efficient way would be to run level cap content.

    The barter cost of old content sets can be reduced if anyone wants to get it.
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