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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    26

    Some basic gameplay questions, particularly about Anthems

    Hi all -- I just hit 45 on my Minstrel main and have been looking up LI information. This has brought up some basic gameplay questions for me, particularly about anthems. I'm hoping to understand if I'm doing something wrong with my playstyle at the moment, and if I should adapt toward different playstyles for later level content.

    Most of the time I solo in war speech. I have done some instances, however -- main healing an on level GA group, for example. Nothing too difficult.

    I've noticed that when I solo, I mainly use anthems for the effect they apply to the coda. The bonus on something like anthem of war, for example, is just too small to make it worth delaying using Coda of Fury to gain the full effect. It seems that when you use the coda you lose the anthem buff but gain whatever effect the anthem applied to the coda. I mainly use the morale and power HoTs when soloing.

    Basically, the meat and potatoes of my rotation is something like minor ballad, minor ballad, minor ballad, Anthem (if off cooldown), immediate Coda of Fury. Toss in Piercing Cry, Calls, etc. as relevant.


    When I'm healing in a group I use Coda far less. It's more often that I use Major Ballad 3 times and then focus on using other heals as needed, popping anthems whenever the cooldown is up. I only use Coda when I need the effect (power restore or large single target heal, for example). So I understand the importance of Anthem duration buffs in this setting as you want your Anthems to be up for as long as possible.

    When soloing, however, I don't understand why Anthem Duration buffs matter at all as they just get canceled out by the Coda anyway. Or does the duration buff also apply to the benefit you get from the Coda altering effect?

    Should I be using Coda less when soloing?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    50

    Re: Some basic gameplay questions, particularly about Anthems

    It sounds like you are about on the right track with using coda for soloing and less so for grouping. Anthems matter more when grouping, because they apply to all group members, not just you.

    For example, the 5% extra damage you get while soloing from anthem of war is not that significant relative to the coda of fury damage, especially in a short fight (it may be more or less in terms of total dps, but that's pretty situational). However, in a sustained group fight, say with you, a tank, and 4 dps classes each capable of, say 600 dps, the 5% bonus to damage from anthem of war over 20 seconds might add 2,400 damage to the group (4 toons X 600 dps X 20 seconds X +5% damage), which is much more than the damage from the coda of fury - not that you'd have coda of fury if you were healing a group, but my point is just to illustrate that because your buffs effect six people in a group, its usually more beneficial to keep them up rather than using coda.

    (all of this is me using junk numbe5rs, I'm just trying to illustrate the point).

    As such, your main reasons for using the coda in a group are the enhanced coda effects from an anthem (especially the PoT from Composure and the instant BC from Third Age) and the instant heal from the coda, which can be very helpful in an emergency situation, while healing on the run or while you are getting interrupted.

    With your soloing, the usefulness of coda is lessened with the recent damage reductions to coda of fury, although it can still be effective for the coda bonuses from anthems. With the continued nerfs to coda of fury, I'm less inclined to use coda mid-fight unless I need power or I'm using it to end the fight.

    Some advice on your solo dps rotation - I'd recommend starting with echoes of battle to lower target cry resistance and get in some damage over time. Then you can throw in a call or two, and once the mob is almost on you, you can use piercing cry to hope for a stun (be sure to trait "unrelenting"), at which point you can put some distance between yourself and the mob and force them to run in again. I try to base my solo fights around cries and calls, self heals and kiting, with Ballads and anthems mixed in between calls, especially when calls are on CD.

    If you prefer to base your solo fights around ballads and codas, I'd suggest running in harmony stance, and base your rotation around minor-perfect-minor ballad--->anthem--->coda. The harmony coda's AOE attack and heal are tremendous, and in many situations compensate for the loss of the warspeech calls, particularly if you are in a group of two or three.
    Last edited by Megandir; Mar 21 2012 at 12:42 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    388

    Re: Some basic gameplay questions, particularly about Anthems

    I can only speak for myself, but the way I play is fairly similar to what you're saying. I almost never use Coda when I'm healing/grouping, unless it's a long fight and I need the power restore. I use it much more when I'm soloing, for the morale and power HoTs. So it sounds like your understanding is correct. Playing a Coda will erase all three ballad buffs and any anthems you have up, but it will apply the special effects that come from any anthems that are active at the time. (power restore, etc.) The anthem duration legacy does not have any impact on those Coda effects.

    I really enjoy buffing, so I have all the anthem duration/CD traits and the legacy maxed. In groups that makes it simple to keep two anthems up all the time, even when I'm busy healing. I also think it's useful solo. When I pull something, I'll hit a damage buff anthem as early as possible (Anthem of War or the WS form of Anthem of the Third Age, or both if possible) and it will often be up for the entire fight. It's kind of fun to plan ahead and balance my skill rotation so the WS calls will fit in when their damage-boosting anthem is up so they have the biggest impact.

    If it's a tough boss I might instead go for AotFP, so I don't have to worry about healing myself until a ways into the fight. If I'm chaining fights I might use the Coda for the power HoT, but often I think it's easier to just keep going so I don't have to set up my ballads again.

    I've seen other minstrels who barely use their anthems at all and are hitting Codas right and left. I find the damage from Coda of Fury underwhelming, but I guess it's a playstyle difference. If you don't want to depend on anthems so much, you don't have to. But once I tried maxing out all my anthem durations, it was hard to go back. Try giving it a shot at least for a little while and see if you like it.
    My characters are listed at my [url=http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/User:Elinnea#LOTRO_Characters]lotro-wiki page[/url].

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    26

    Re: Some basic gameplay questions, particularly about Anthems

    Thanks for the replies!

    I'll have to try out that Harmony idea -- the AOE coda does sound nice, although losing out on calls is unfortunate.

    I do typically use Echoes/calls/piercing cry early in my rotation when they are off cooldown and have been doing that moreso with the Coda of Fury nerf. Generally speaking I haven't had any problems soloing at all -- I can take down an on level elite with no problems at all and can take two on level elites with a little finesse. I've also soloed elite masters that are within 1 or 2 levels. And all that without particularly good gear. Mins is definitely a powerful soloing class!

  5. #5

    Re: Some basic gameplay questions, particularly about Anthems

    Quote Originally Posted by Elinnea View Post
    Playing a Coda will erase all three ballad buffs and any anthems you have up, but it will apply the special effects that come from any anthems that are active at the time. (power restore, etc.)
    The coda will give you the effects of all anthems played since the last coda has been fired.
    ETA: This can be especially useful when you work yourself up to a boss fight (e.g. in skirmishes or solo instances). Store your effects by using different anthems without firing the coda and be ready with all of them when starting the boss fight to get some nice boost when using the coda.

    So I usually only coda when I have been able to do at least Aotfp and Aoc. Most fights do not need the coda besides an additional boost to damage but the dps of a mini in short fights is already great without sing your coda. I prefer to have my HoT and PoT coda effects ready whenever I need them.

    This of course depends also a lot on the level and the amount of yellow traits you can and want to slot and the amount of additional dps skills you have. Cry of the valar, cry of the wizards, call to fate and call of the second age are not available at lower levels and neither is anthem of composure.

    So this means at lower levels you rely more on the coda as an additional damage source while at later levels its effects from PoT, HoT, Noble cause, etc... might be more important as your basic dps skillset is much larger and varied.

    Also for me it is much more fun to use all your skills instead of a boring ballad, ballad, ballad, coda rotation.
    Last edited by monk_tbd; Mar 21 2012 at 01:49 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    9

    Re: Some basic gameplay questions, particularly about Anthems

    Quote Originally Posted by monk_tbd View Post
    The coda will give you the effects of all anthems played since the last coda has been fired.
    ETA: This can be especially useful when you work yourself up to a boss fight (e.g. in skirmishes or solo instances). Store your effects by using different anthems without firing the coda and be ready with all of them when starting the boss fight to get some nice boost when using the coda.

    ....
    Are you sure it works like this? Haven't really paid much attention to this, because I always thought only the last actived anthem effects the Coda, since it alters the Coda. If it is how you say it is, the Coda will become even more powerfull then I always imagined, will check this out tonight when I'm online again.

    Basic point about not using my Coda's too much when soloing, is that it doesnt only wipes your Anthem (lets go with Ballad of War for now), but also your +dmg from your balads. Lets assume you are running solo in at least 4 Reds you would have +7% dmg from every minor ballad that you have played, so 3x minor balad = 21% extra tact damage, boosting it up with Ballad of War is another 5% (or 10 if you have the LI maxed).

    This would mean playing your coda will wipe the +26% tactical damage you have on every other skill you do before your fully ballad and anthemed up again.

    My basic solo routine goes somthing like: Minor ballad - Piercing Cry - minor ballad - call of orome - minor ballad - anthem of war - echo of battle - then the remaing calls with minor ballads mixed in when calls are on CD

  7. #7

    Re: Some basic gameplay questions, particularly about Anthems

    He is right, it will apply effects of all anthems played after the last coda, even after they expire.

    Also, have you ever tried using an anthem right after the coda? (like hitting it before the coda anim is finished)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    388

    Re: Some basic gameplay questions, particularly about Anthems

    Quote Originally Posted by W0lfg0d View Post
    He is right, it will apply effects of all anthems played after the last coda, even after they expire.
    I've heard several people say this recently. Has that always been the case? And by always I mean since RoI released. It seemed to me that wasn't the original intention of it, or so I assumed from the dev diary that consistently referred to active anthems, not anthems that have been played some time in the past ( here and here for example). I wouldn't be complaining, mind, it just seems a little too good to be true.
    My characters are listed at my [url=http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/User:Elinnea#LOTRO_Characters]lotro-wiki page[/url].

  9. #9

    Re: Some basic gameplay questions, particularly about Anthems

    I'm not sure if it was changed or not but it is true. The coda will apply all bonus effects since the last coda was played. So if you use all your anthems before using your coda you will get all the bonus effects at once

    This is my playstyle when soloing, I dont use coda for every fight and I make sure to have at least 4 anthems played before using coda. This way i get HoT, PoT, free noble cause, extra coda crit chance when I do use my coda.

    Also talking about skill rotations (in WS), Echos of battle and Call of orome should be first or almost first in your skills used because they have debuffs as well as damage. Echos of battle reduces song and cry resistance and Call of orome reduces light dmg mitigation. These debuffs will help you do more damage and get more stuns with piercing cry.

 

 

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