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  1. #1

    Raid tips for minstrels

    My Minstrel is lvl 50 and i am still new to raids. I did a 12 person raid last night and i was a bit lost with what buffs to use for the party. I have done instences before but the only real tactics were healing people and reserecting them if they died.

    So any tips for a raiding minstrel

  2. #2
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    Re: Raid tips for minstrels

    Healing a raid isn't too different from healing a six man. Assuming you are healing blue traited and in melody (the default) stance, which is probably best until you know the class better, here's a quick and dirty primer on buffs(anthems):

    You'll want to get hit your major ballad three times early in the fight, so that you can start your anthems. Depending on the situation, it may be better to go major-perfect-major ballad. From there, you can decide which anthems you want up:

    Compassion - decreases your threat, only really useful if there are lots of adds
    Composure - buffs everyone in your group's (just your 6) resistances and cuts down on the damage they take
    War - increases your group's damage output
    Prowess - increases attack speed, armor and evasion
    Free Peoples - increases vitality and morale regeneration
    Third Age - increases your healing output

    Generally, Free Peoples and Composure are defensive anthems, and are good when the group is taking a lot of damage. War is good to speed up fights when you have healing under control. Compassion is nice to sneak in if you have 4 blue traits to manage your aggro, but it is not a big priority in most cases. Prowess is wonderful, and a good all-around choice when you aren't sure which anthem to use.

    I really like to use Third Age, which, beyond boosting your outgoing healing, also functions as an insurance policy - if you coda after using third age, you get an instant bolster courage, a combination which can let you really boost someone's health in short order. The other coda effects can be useful, especially composure, which gives a power return if you coda while its up.

    Beyond the buffs that you want to always be using in addition to healing, in a raid your priorities are a little different than in a six-man group.

    Your healing focus will generally be:
    1) yourself
    2) the raid's main tank
    3) the other healer
    4) the raid's second (off) tank

    Your incombat rez is best saved for the other healer or a tank. If someone other than a healer or tank goes down, its generally best to ask the raid leader if they want you to blow your rez.

    Also, don't forget your emergency skills. The cooldown on Triumphant Spirit is short enough that if the fight is going badly and you are behind on your healing, don't hesitate to use it. Better to prevent a wipe and let your raid leader know that they may want to delay the start of the next boss fight so that you can have your emergency heals and incombat rez ready to go.

    One last comment on raid healing - raid fights are generally longer than 6-man fights, which means you will need to be more careful about your power consumption. Try to avoid using more power hungry skills like chord of salvation, and if your power is low, dont worry about trying to throw in any damage (later on, the heal over time from improved cry of the valar is very power efficient, but don't worry about that at level 50). Also, as mentioned above, if your power does get low, be sure to use your power potions, and if those are on cooldown, you can use your anthem of composure and coda, which gives a power return. Just be sure to get your ballads back up right away - with three major ballads up, you heal for 9% more while using 3% less power.

    Good luck!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c000000237c76/signature.png]Megaren[/charsig]

  3. #3

    Re: Raid tips for minstrels

    It can be chaotic at first, with everyone running around. Here are some things I've learned.

    1) I agree with the first responder that you want to get your Ballads up fast so that you can also bring in Anthems. However, I slightly disagree on his sequence. I would go either Major - Perfect - Major or Perfect - Major - Perfect to start (depending on if the game recognizes right away that you're in combat), then you can get to Triple Major after your first anthem.

    2) As far as which anthems you use, that depends on your traiting setup and how things are going. I personally SWEAR by Anthem of the Free Peoples, so that's almost always the one I use first. With my traiting setup (4B/3Y at L75), I an only keep two anthems up reliably, so I decide on the second one I maintain between Prowess (even if it's only for the attack duration effect), Composure, or Third Age. If there's no need for any sort of heals and I want the fight to get over with, I may quickly switch songbooks and use Anthem of War instead, then switch back. However, if I need to get people back on their feet in a hurry, then I'll definately choose Anthem of the Third Age so that I can get my Bolster Courages off faster.

    3) It may defy intuition, but don't stay too far away from the group. There are two main reasons for this. First, if by chance attention gets drawn to you, being close to everyone else will make it easier for someone to regain threat off of you. Second, there is nothing more annoying (for them) and panic-inducing (for you) than switching targets and firing off a heal, only to be told that they're out of range/you don't have line-of-sight.

    4) Concur fully on the Rally! usage comments. Now, if two or three of your attackers go down, you may say "I kind of need to Rally! one of them or this will never end." In which case just do it. But in general, better to prioritize as the other commenter suggested.

    5) If you find yourself having more power problems than Coda and celebrant can handle, other remedies include leaving a Perfect Ballad in your queue, slotting Absolute Pitch, and building the rank on your Healing Skills Power Cost songbook legacy.

    6) Whatever happens, try not to panic. You can and will lose control of things now and then. Indulge in a panic moment, then focus, get as many people back to fighting shape as you can (focusing on your tanks/other healers first), then figure out what needs to be done.

    7) Finally, if anyone begins to get snippy over your performance, slap them with a fish and choke them with your harp strings. Why? Because you can.
    Last edited by Casilune; Mar 19 2012 at 12:19 PM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Raid tips for minstrels

    I'm throwing in two cents here to highlight a difference between six-person (and smaller) content and raid content.

    Buffs.

    An example would be burglars, in six and under, they are primarily DPS. Not in raids, their first priority is increasing the group's damage, then only after that is done, offering their own.

    Anthem of War and Prowess are higher priorities in raids than smaller content, as the amount of damage is significant (as others have pointed out, assuming healing/defense is under control). Ironically, it can also mean less healing is required, as dropping things that take minutes to go down that much faster means a minute or two of less healing, less power draw, less risk, etc.



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  5. #5

    Re: Raid tips for minstrels

    Solid advice so far - some more points from an old raid hand...

    - maximise your anthem duration to 25s and get cd down to 10s. then you can keep two up all the time. for me that's prowess and war when all is fine and prowess and third age when the #### hits the fan. on pulls where you expect aggro problems play compassion first and then some of the above.

    - trait for max heal output on everything beside soliquitude - that is 4 blue. that's 21% more healing with 3 major ballads up

    - get a separate set of legendary items for healing - on the book (highest & best you can get - but don't spend insane amounts for anything below 75) max tactical healing, healing & motivational skills, bolster courage inspire fellows and/or healing power cost. On the weapon (you can use a 3rd age here - and don't level damage) get triumphant spirit cd, anthem duration, rally cooldown and soliquitude pulses and/or healing aggro.

    - all the ballad of war legacies can be put on one separate book for switching in before using BoW. have both books on hotkeys right beside BoW.

    - get a decent instrument
    Last edited by Cize; Mar 19 2012 at 05:53 PM.

  6. #6

    Re: Raid tips for minstrels

    Anthem of third age is a top priority for me, the -25% induction helps a lot. And the free BC doesn't have a expiration timer even after anthem expiration, timer only start to tick after you hit the coda. This means once the anthem is up, you can throw 2 fast heals anytime you see fit (the Free BC is instant cast). This helped me many many times to save a tank from the blink of destruction

    Obviously yellow line traited mini benefit most from third age anthem because of the 30s duration. -25% induction won't really do much if you only have a 10s anthem duration. And you only get the free BC after anthem+coda, which is not something blue/red line can do often.
    Last edited by Joynt; Mar 19 2012 at 09:17 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Raid tips for minstrels

    First of all, raid healing is not so much different from fellowship healing. The most difficult for me is to keep track of my fellowship members in the chaos of two whole fellowships running around together. Things like anthem buffs and fellowship heals (Inspire Fellows) only work on your own fellowship, the 6-man part of the raid you are in. Later on you will get more group heals and a few group heal over times which will also only affect the raid members that are in the same fellowship you are in.

    If I find there are targets in the other fellowship I want to keep an eye on (like the main tank or the other fellowship's healer) then I try to get a tooltip for those characters. Hover over the tank/healer in the other fellowship, press "h" when the tooltip appears, and you will get that tooltip on your screen permanently (until you manually close or ), making it easier to keep their morale bar in focus and switch targets to them (just left-click on the tooltip to make that person your current target).

    Buffing is situational just like in any instance. Once you get to know a fight you will get a feeling for whether you want more morale regeneration, damage mitigation, higher healing output or offensive buffs. Just go with whatever anthem feels most comfortable for you at the time. The same goes for stories, I switch between the will/fate one and the vitality one depending on group and kind of content.

    You might consider looking into a 4y/3b trait set rather than the traditional 4 or 5 blues. With the right traits it gives you a bonus to anthem duration and decreases anthem cooldown for a total of 30s duration/5s cooldown which easily lets you run four anthems constantly and gives you more variety to select (and switch) anthems and coda effects when things get hectic. Personally I much prefer healing that way, all the way into Orthanc and the Saruman fight.

  8. #8

    Re: Raid tips for minstrels

    Thanks some good tips there

    A couple of follow up questions.
    What kind of armour should i be aming for at lvl 50+

    Would you bother retraiting for a raid or just go with what traits you have.

  9. #9
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    Re: Raid tips for minstrels

    Retrait. A resident mini in the raid might inspect you, and if you aren't traited correctly they will ask you to change probably. But even showing up with bad traits/virtues kinda makes you look inept.

    You can find other threads to give you an idea of virtues I guess. Just get your tactical defense up as much as you can.

    Gear is kind of up to you. On my server at least, I wouldn't worry too much about it until you get to 75. At that point it's subjective. Our orthanc stuff isn't great compared to other classes I think, so a lot of ppl use some combination of draigoch and orthanc since the bonuses on draigoch are ok.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Raid tips for minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by Atrixzia View Post
    Would you bother retraiting for a raid or just go with what traits you have.
    Depends on what raid and how you were traited before. If you're traited for full healing anyway you've probably got the traits that are most beneficial for healing the raid equiped. If you're traited for solo play with lots of red traits consider retraiting to blue and/or yellow.

    I've got two trait sets that I use regularly, 4y/3b for healing (regardless of whether it's 3-man, 6-man or 12-man content) and 5r/2b for soloing, open world grouping and those instances where I'm not the main healer (we have enough minstrels in our kin to often bring along two or three to an instance so off-healing in warspeech is a viable option).

  11. #11
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    Re: Raid tips for minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by Atrixzia View Post
    What kind of armour should i be aming for at lvl 50+
    At 50 I'd say quest/crafted is fine. As you start to do Moria instances you'll get a special currency that you can use to buy armour from your class trainer in the 21st Hall. My advice would be to hold out for the light-blue armour set as that will carry you comfortably into your 70s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atrixzia View Post
    Would you bother retraiting for a raid or just go with what traits you have.
    If you're in a raid, chances are that you'll be healing in which case it is crucial that you switch your class Virtues (and instrument at the very least) to your preferred healing set. Using the right trait set and equipment demonstrates that you know your class; using the wrong sets lets everyone know that you either don't know or don't care about what you're doing. Good reputations are hard to build, bad ones very easy.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Raid tips for minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by Binidj View Post
    (and instrument at the very least)
    Actually the difference the instrument makes is very small and often easily offset by your ability to chose the right skill for each situation.

    My minstrel has always used the same type of instrument for roleplaying reasons. It's her instrument, she doesn't play anything else. I've had a very few people comment on it but it hasn't kept me from healing efficiently. The worst discussion I had was with a friend after I had carved myself three different versions of that instrument at level 70. His argument was "if you play the same type of instrument I have no idea to quickly see if you're using the proper one for the instance". My argument is that it's my responsibility to chose the proper instrument and nobody else's business .

    And even if I forget ... the stat differences of the level 70 instruments are huge compared to everything before level 70, but I've healed half a Saruman fight with a battle singer instrument (I came online late when the raid was about to start and forgot to switch ) and only noticed because I started wondering why my morale and power numbers seemed off.

    The point of this wall of text: Different instruments have different stats, but they don't really make all that much of a difference (unlike class traits and to a lesser extend virtues, those really do make a difference).

  13. #13
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    Re: Raid tips for minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramor View Post
    My minstrel has always used the same type of instrument for roleplaying reasons. It's her instrument, she doesn't play anything else. I've had a very few people comment on it but it hasn't kept me from healing efficiently. The worst discussion I had was with a friend after I had carved myself three different versions of that instrument at level 70. His argument was "if you play the same type of instrument I have no idea to quickly see if you're using the proper one for the instance". My argument is that it's my responsibility to chose the proper instrument and nobody else's business .
    I think that's a lovely idea but I'm guessing that your instrument isn't a drum or a cowbell.

    Although I agree with you, most people will think like your friend ... worse, most people will think they know better than you (just take a look around these forums for examples of that) and if they see you using a non-optimal instrument for healing will assume that (a) you've' forgotten to swap your instrument or (b) you don't know what you're doing and that (c) (and this goes double if you're actually using a lute or a harp) you need to be told how wrong you are to be using a non-optimal instrument. If you don't have a roleplaying reason for sticking with a particular instrument, I'd suggest using either Theorbo (at lower levels) or Clarinet just to head off negative comments/opinions. It's a PR thing, we should be good at that shouldn't we?
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  14. #14
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    Re: Raid tips for minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramor View Post
    If I find there are targets in the other fellowship I want to keep an eye on (like the main tank or the other fellowship's healer) then I try to get a tooltip for those characters. Hover over the tank/healer in the other fellowship, press "h" when the tooltip appears, and you will get that tooltip on your screen permanently (until you manually close or ), making it easier to keep their morale bar in focus and switch targets to them (just left-click on the tooltip to make that person your current target).
    Great tip - I'd never thought of trying this.

    I typically base my instruments and tales around the nature and duration of the fight I'm going into. If there is a high risk of one-shot deaths or lots of disease/poison, etc, I'll use tale of battle. Longer fights I typically go with tale of heroism, especially to help heavies with power regen - the +85 will and fate makes a big difference to ICPR for people only running with 2-300 fate. For instruments, I'll usually start with something like XXXX of the resolute for the crit healing multiplier, but if its a long fight and I start to fall below 40-50% power, I'll switch out to an XXXX of conservation for awhile for better power management and so I can avoid having to coda just for power regen.

    One other thing about end-game instruments - the first priority is always going to be the instruments stats, but after that, try to find something that doesnt grate on you sound wise. I find drums and theobres to be the least annoying in that respect, but after awhile flutes and horns wear on me. Purely personal preferences, but something that can make a quality of life difference while you play.

    You will almost always want to retrait if you are running deep in the red line for solo, unless you are doing some content for which you are well over leveled for - eg, Grand Stairs at lvl 65. Otherwise, the impact on your healing output is just painful. The mix that you use while grouping/raiding is purely personal preference, but for harder content, you'll most likely be running with at least 4 in the blue or yellow line. Most people that go 4 or 5 deep into the blue or yellow line fill out the rest with the opposite color (eg, 5b, with 2y for anthem duration, or 5y with 2b for healing output), although for there are a few red traits that can be somewhat helpful to groups - enduring morale or armor of song if you are having issues keeping yourself alive, or unrelenting for the 30% stun chance on piercing cry.

    Retraiting for raids can get expensive over time, but so are the repair bills faced by heavy armor classes....Once you hit end-game, full retraits are less necessary. Unless I'm going to solo in the moors, I do most open world soloing in my usual blue and yellow traits - once you are geared up at cap, most multiple mob landscape pulls won't give you any trouble regardless of how you are traited.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c000000237c76/signature.png]Megaren[/charsig]

 

 

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