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  1. #1
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    Question Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    Caveat: I don't do PvMP, I'm not interested in ever doing PvMP, and I know next to nothing about PvMP.

    I'm interested to know what it is about the Minstrel that makes it (apparently) so much more effective in PvMP than other classes. The simple fact is that Minstrels really aren't particularly overpowered in PvE, you have only to look at the "Minstrels can DPS now?" thread to see that our DPS is generally considered sub-optimal, we certainly can't "tank" effectively in PvE; I can toe-to-toe two, maybe three blue or on-level mobs but I'd be burning cooldowns to do that, and more than one on-level signature mob will force a retreat in short order. So in PvE we're ok, not the most resilient by a long way, nor capable of doing the most damage, and our instant-cast heals (one direct, one HoT) aren't particularly huge (when traited for soloing/DPS) and both have cooldowns, preventing chain-casting, but we're ok. In PvMP however, it seems that we're like unto gods ... and this I just don't understand. If we're just ok against world mobs whose AI and tactics are pretty rudimentary, how is it that the class fares so much better against creeps, who have human brains and cunning behind them? Why is it that a fun but unspectacular PvE class suddenly becomes more fearsome than any other class once it encounters creeps?

    Please can we try to keep this civil? I am genuinely curious but my tolerance for "OMG nerf teh minis" posts has pretty much expired. Also, if you don't indulge in PvMP can you avoid any "OMG we haz teh nerf bcoz creeps QQed" posts ... those are almost as tiresome.

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  2. #2
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    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    I think the main reasons would be some combination of:

    High critical damage potential(near-frequent 2k+ hits)
    Significant selfhealing ability(possible to have up to four? HOTs going at any one time.
    Effective power restoration skill
    The fact that all of these can be done on the move, and at range, with no inductions

    May have missed others, but I think those are the most brought up.
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  3. #3

    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    Here's what I've noticed about minis in PvMP... keep in mind, though, that I've been playing in the Moors for about 2 months on the whole, and my main is a hunter, so my views may be a bit skewed.

    The biggest advantage that minstrels have, in my opinion, is their ability to DPS on the move. Unlike many other tactical-damage classes, whose skills have inductions that require them to stand still, minstrels can do a full DPS rotation (e.g. Piercing Cry, Call of Orome, 3 ballads, Coda of Fury) while strafing around a creep (or group of creeps). This is VERY valuable in PvMP, where survivability often depends on not letting the melee classes get within striking distance in the first place.

    Also, do not underestimate minstrel DPS! I've seen a mini in War-Speech solo 3 ranked wargs, simply by spamming ballads and CoF while strafing in circles. Another huge asset is the Piercing Cry stun, which can immobilize a creep for several seconds, during which the minstrel can pile in the ballads leading up to CoF. Of course, this was pre-Update 6 -- with the arrival of Audacity, this dynamic may have changed, since stuns and other CC skills won't last as long. With proper traiting and gear, though, a minstrel's tactical-damage skills can sure pack a punch... especially with the new DPS-oriented armor from the RoI expansion.

    I will say one thing though (and I know this has been said before) -- it saddens me that minstrels in the Moors decide to go for an all-out DPS spec, rather than contributing much-needed healing in freep raids. I know that, as a hunter, I feel squishier than ever in PvMP, even while running about in the middle of a raid. Those heals would make me feel oh-so-much-more comfortable about throwing myself valiantly at the ranks of the enemy, and whatnot.

    I hope this cleared up some of your questions...
    Happy minstreling!

  4. #4

    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    I don't do a lot of PvMP but I shall take a stab at an answer.

    A few points to note. When a Minstrel is soloing on the moors you'll find they kite the creeps rather than going toe to toe. Look on youtube and there are videos of fights with 1 mini against many wargs and you'll see what I mean. In this type of battle cry of the wizards to slow down the enemy, + the various HoTs that can be used on the move (CoS, SoS, AotFP & Coda+AotFP) mean a minstrel can out heal a lot of creep damage.

    Damage-wise, a Minstrel performs poorely due to their "sustained DPS" this refers to the damage done on average over a 10+min fight. In PvMP what often counts is "Burst DPS" this is where a large amount of damage is put out in a short amount of time, for a Minstrel we have a few big skills on a (relatively) lengthy cooldown. A creep has around 10-15k morale as opposed to a raid boss which can have 2million+, so you don't need to output that much damage, you just need to put enough out quick enough to overcome healing etc.

    The final thing (that I can think of) is that Minstrel has high burst DPS on the move, all our attack skills can be used on the move, which is important as considered in the first point. LM and Hunters have good "burst DPS" but must stand still, the only other class which has the mobility is the RK who still needs to stand still for their biggest attack, Mns have no such issues.

    Hopefully that helps
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  5. #5

    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dniv14 View Post
    Here's what I've noticed about minis in PvMP... keep in mind, though, that I've been playing in the Moors for about 2 months on the whole, and my main is a hunter, so my views may be a bit skewed.

    The biggest advantage that minstrels have, in my opinion, is their ability to DPS on the move. Unlike many other tactical-damage classes, whose skills have inductions that require them to stand still, minstrels can do a full DPS rotation (e.g. Piercing Cry, Call of Orome, 3 ballads, Coda of Fury) while strafing around a creep (or group of creeps). This is VERY valuable in PvMP, where survivability often depends on not letting the melee classes get within striking distance in the first place.

    Also, do not underestimate minstrel DPS! I've seen a mini in War-Speech solo 3 ranked wargs, simply by spamming ballads and CoF while strafing in circles. Another huge asset is the Piercing Cry stun, which can immobilize a creep for several seconds, during which the minstrel can pile in the ballads leading up to CoF. Of course, this was pre-Update 6 -- with the arrival of Audacity, this dynamic may have changed, since stuns and other CC skills won't last as long. With proper traiting and gear, though, a minstrel's tactical-damage skills can sure pack a punch... especially with the new DPS-oriented armor from the RoI expansion.

    I will say one thing though (and I know this has been said before) -- it saddens me that minstrels in the Moors decide to go for an all-out DPS spec, rather than contributing much-needed healing in freep raids. I know that, as a hunter, I feel squishier than ever in PvMP, even while running about in the middle of a raid. Those heals would make me feel oh-so-much-more comfortable about throwing myself valiantly at the ranks of the enemy, and whatnot.

    I hope this cleared up some of your questions...
    Happy minstreling!
    well you hit the nail on the head, thats why just about all creeps hate minis, as per the healing in moor there were two reasons
    1. you get no renown by healing unless you are in a group, even then its pretty low
    2. not sure about other servers (but i bet its the same) when they find a healer healing people then focus their attacks on the healer and nothing gets accomplished

    for the damage of course we dont par up to the real dps classes, though we do pack a punch its just a burst damage and wont come close to a champs or hunters dps in the long run
    Ssupermann: I hate minis, they have satellite lazers

  6. #6
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    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Binidj View Post
    Caveat: I don't do PvMP, I'm not interested in ever doing PvMP, and I know next to nothing about PvMP.

    I'm interested to know what it is about the Minstrel that makes it (apparently) so much more effective in PvMP than other classes. The simple fact is that Minstrels really aren't particularly overpowered in PvE, you have only to look at the "Minstrels can DPS now?" thread to see that our DPS is generally considered sub-optimal, we certainly can't "tank" effectively in PvE; I can toe-to-toe two, maybe three blue or on-level mobs but I'd be burning cooldowns to do that, and more than one on-level signature mob will force a retreat in short order. So in PvE we're ok, not the most resilient by a long way, nor capable of doing the most damage, and our instant-cast heals (one direct, one HoT) aren't particularly huge (when traited for soloing/DPS) and both have cooldowns, preventing chain-casting, but we're ok. In PvMP however, it seems that we're like unto gods ... and this I just don't understand. If we're just ok against world mobs whose AI and tactics are pretty rudimentary, how is it that the class fares so much better against creeps, who have human brains and cunning behind them? Why is it that a fun but unspectacular PvE class suddenly becomes more fearsome than any other class once it encounters creeps?

    Please can we try to keep this civil? I am genuinely curious but my tolerance for "OMG nerf teh minis" posts has pretty much expired. Also, if you don't indulge in PvMP can you avoid any "OMG we haz teh nerf bcoz creeps QQed" posts ... those are almost as tiresome.

    Help me Lazyweb, you're my only hope.
    Being able to heal and dps at the same time.

    Unlike the landscape mobs in RoI zones, many creeps do not actually hit all that hard. Against my spider for instance, my entire damage output can be effectively healed by HoTs without interrupting your DPS rotation. This is true now, even with the significant damage increases spiders received in U6.

    I expect we will be hearing about moors only changes to healing output while in WS shortly, though I wouldn't be shocked if these changes were gamewide. Personally I don't care what you can and can't do in pve-land, if it's game-wide that will be because the developers think it's over-the-top in pve-land as well.


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  7. #7
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    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyrion View Post
    I think the main reasons would be some combination of:

    High critical damage potential(near-frequent 2k+ hits)
    Significant selfhealing ability(possible to have up to four? HOTs going at any one time.
    Effective power restoration skill
    The fact that all of these can be done on the move, and at range, with no inductions

    May have missed others, but I think those are the most brought up.
    Thanks for that.

    Assuming that PvMP requires mostly red traiting the self-healing is limited to two heals (Chord of Salvation - Direct heal + HoT and Soliloquy of Spirit - HoT) that can be done on the move neither of which is particularly powerful in PvE, so I'm surprised that they are apparently more potent in PvMP. You could also burn an Anthem of the Free People's Coda which would give a third (but quite powerful) HoT but in that case you'd forego your Power restoration Coda. Again this is the sort of thing that I do in PvE and I am far from invincible in that arena.

    So what you say is sort of true (just not all at the same time unless I'm missing a trick) but in PvE isn't that powerful, whereas in PvMP it seems to be ... what's the difference between the two?

    ETA:
    Just read the other responses, thanks, that's cleared that up ... so it's not so much the Minstrel healing or bubble that's the issue so much as the induction-free ballads? Being able to use ballads and codas on the move is invaluable to me as a healer, not so much in a dps role ... but then I hate, hate, hate kiting so others may have a different opinion.

    Possibly giving Ballads an induction time (however short) might be a possible solution to the PvMP imbalance? With a trait bonus in deep yellow and blue to make them instant-cast again for when we heal.
    Last edited by Binidj; Mar 13 2012 at 02:00 PM.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyrion View Post
    I think the main reasons would be some combination of:

    High critical damage potential(near-frequent 2k+ hits)
    Significant selfhealing ability(possible to have up to four? HOTs going at any one time.
    Effective power restoration skill
    The fact that all of these can be done on the move, and at range, with no inductions

    May have missed others, but I think those are the most brought up.
    That about sums it up. Bolded for signifigance


  9. #9
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    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Binidj View Post
    Thanks for that.

    Assuming that PvMP requires mostly red traiting the self-healing is limited to two heals (Chord of Salvation - Direct heal + HoT and Soliloquy of Spirit - HoT) that can be done on the move neither of which is particularly powerful in PvE, so I'm surprised that they are apparently more potent in PvMP. You could also burn an Anthem of the Free People's Coda which would give a third (but quite powerful) HoT but in that case you'd forego your Power restoration Coda. Again this is the sort of thing that I do in PvE and I am far from invincible in that arena.

    So what you say is sort of true (just not all at the same time unless I'm missing a trick) but in PvE isn't that powerful, whereas in PvMP it seems to be ... what's the difference between the two?
    Landscape mobs hit harder than most creep classes.


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  10. #10

    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Binidj View Post
    Thanks for that.

    Assuming that PvMP requires mostly red traiting the self-healing is limited to two heals (Chord of Salvation - Direct heal + HoT and Soliloquy of Spirit - HoT) that can be done on the move neither of which is particularly powerful in PvE, so I'm surprised that they are apparently more potent in PvMP. You could also burn an Anthem of the Free People's Coda which would give a third (but quite powerful) HoT but in that case you'd forego your Power restoration Coda. Again this is the sort of thing that I do in PvE and I am far from invincible in that arena.

    So what you say is sort of true (just not all at the same time unless I'm missing a trick) but in PvE isn't that powerful, whereas in PvMP it seems to be ... what's the difference between the two?
    dps trait it actually is potent with the traits. Life singer (+10% chance to score crit heals) paired with silver tongue (+25% healing from crit heals) i can crit up to 3k with CoS, and if your like me and use heralds hammer thats a +10%(or +20% depending on traits again) incoming healing, but i don't crit CoS very often
    Ssupermann: I hate minis, they have satellite lazers

  11. #11
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    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    After this patch, my RK is more powerful than my minstrel in a myriad of ways. If creeps are still crying about minstrels, they're blind because RKs are facemelting once again with a lot more healing whilst they do it. They no longer require Master of Writs to be up to heal...and if traited for it, those healing Writs are instant

    Not to mention:

    - 70% slow, 30% on damage
    - DoTs that can be cast instantly and crit
    - Very, very potent heals - much more so than prior to U6 and with more utility than before
    - Run and gun, kiting with more slows AND more CC than a mini by a mile

    If creeps haven't fought a geared RK yet or fought a group with a geared RK healing, they'll be crying soon enough.

    Not to mention Wardens. Never seen anything more OP in the game - but they got some love and needed some love.

    Get over the minstrel hate. We're small potatoes now IMO.

  12. #12

    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianrial View Post

    If creeps haven't fought a geared RK yet or fought a group with a geared RK healing, they'll be crying soon enough.

    Not to mention Wardens. Never seen anything more OP in the game - but they got some love and needed some love.

    Get over the minstrel hate. We're small potatoes now IMO.
    Gl with that, they are going to keep crying over the minstrel till we do little dps with normal heals or somewhat better dps with little to no heals
    Ssupermann: I hate minis, they have satellite lazers

  13. #13
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    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianrial View Post
    After this patch, my RK is more powerful than my minstrel in a myriad of ways. If creeps are still crying about minstrels, they're blind because RKs are facemelting once again with a lot more healing whilst they do it. They no longer require Master of Writs to be up to heal...and if traited for it, those healing Writs are instant

    Not to mention:

    - 70% slow, 30% on damage
    - DoTs that can be cast instantly and crit
    - Very, very potent heals - much more so than prior to U6 and with more utility than before
    - Run and gun, kiting with more slows AND more CC than a mini by a mile

    If creeps haven't fought a geared RK yet or fought a group with a geared RK healing, they'll be crying soon enough.

    Not to mention Wardens. Never seen anything more OP in the game - but they got some love and needed some love.

    Get over the minstrel hate. We're small potatoes now IMO.
    Except that I've already beaten one of the best pvp RKs on E twice... and that was while still missing two of my new skills.

    LOL @ writ of health used while damage attuned. It's like having a second healing rock out, very easy to out-damage that. Attunement can be flipped, but it's a 2.8 second induction if I have my debuffs stacked and that's without me and my hatchling hitting you to slow it down further or my 10s cooldown melee fear to completely interrupt it.

    Or you can start the fight in healing attunement. Great plan! I'll only stack 5 debuffs on you that make your life miserable once you flip to damage stance and set up my drink deep > envenom > Virulent poison combo once your HoTstack falls off. I won't ever let you finish inducting steady hands. Ever.

    Takes a good 2 minutes for me to beat a good RK, but they're very beatable by a good spider this update. Unlike a minstrel, they have to stop damaging me if they want to outheal my damage.

    I'm not saying RKs are weak, they're very strong. But also balanced, unlike minstrels.


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  14. #14
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    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    With all due respect, Stickeez, I disagree. A RK that understands the changes in the traits from U6 will dominate any creep, easily, IMO. Provided they are geared and not completely green, it will be no-contest.

  15. #15

    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Binidj View Post
    Thanks for that.

    Assuming that PvMP requires mostly red traiting the self-healing is limited to two heals (Chord of Salvation - Direct heal + HoT and Soliloquy of Spirit - HoT) that can be done on the move neither of which is particularly powerful in PvE, so I'm surprised that they are apparently more potent in PvMP. You could also burn an Anthem of the Free People's Coda which would give a third (but quite powerful) HoT but in that case you'd forego your Power restoration Coda. Again this is the sort of thing that I do in PvE and I am far from invincible in that arena.
    Do you kite in PvE? You're pretty close to invincible if you do. Before the update, I needed to kite with my minstrel just to kill 2 or 3 mobs. Now, I can pull probably as many as 5 or 6 on-level mobs and kill them easily while kiting (assuming they have no slows or stuns), using cry of the wizards to slow them, hitting chord of salvation whenever it's up, and perhaps throwing a coda and an insta-cast bolster if things get messy. Heck, right when the changes hit last fall and I was in the mid 50s, I ran one of the level 50 instances in the Great Delving and as a test, pulled every single orc in the instance except the 4 in the first room and kited them to death. They were not grey either but were about 5 levels under me. This is essentially the strength of the minstrel in PvP. If you just stand there and get beat on by the creeps then you're not doing it right.

    ETA:
    Just read the other responses, thanks, that's cleared that up ... so it's not so much the Minstrel healing or bubble that's the issue so much as the induction-free ballads? Being able to use ballads and codas on the move is invaluable to me as a healer, not so much in a dps role ... but then I hate, hate, hate kiting so others may have a different opinion.
    The bubble is pretty meaningless in PvP. Yes it's 800 less morale or so but that isn't game breaking. In fact, I hope that was a PvE adjustment and not meant to fix anything in PvP. It's not just the ballads, it's the self heals, the cries, and the calls that can all be used on the move. In my opinion, the most simple nerf that is needed is that chord of my salvation should be unusable in PvP (not the regular chord of salvation) or alternatively, warspeech needs a 50% healing penalty in the Moors. It would be better for everyone if minstrels weren't running around like some kind of tank-battle mages as they are now and were instead being used for their intended purpose which is group healing.
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  16. #16
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    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    Quote Originally Posted by asearchforreason View Post
    It would be better for everyone if minstrels weren't running around like some kind of tank-battle mages as they are now and were instead being used for their intended purpose which is group healing.
    Says who? lol. Newsflash - your vision of what we're "supposed" to be? It's archaic. There's a reason why heal-only classes have basically been disolved in MMOs. That's because they make zero sense and are incredibly limiting to the player.

  17. #17
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    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    Quote Originally Posted by asearchforreason View Post
    It would be better for everyone if minstrels weren't running around like some kind of tank-battle mages as they are now and were instead being used for their intended purpose which is group healing.
    It would be better for everyone if burgs weren't running around camping rez's and grams like some kind of uber greenie assassins as they are now and were instead being used for their intended purpose which is scouting, debuffing, and cc'ing.




    To the OP, I don't know if Mini is your main or if you have played the class for 4+ years, but if really is all about the traiting you chose to go out with and the mindset you play with. For you, most likely because of your traiting style and lack of kiting, you say you have difficulty with 2-3 blue mobs, to me this would boggle my mind. I don't say that in disrespect or because I play the Mini class better, but more because I know with how I build would demolish 5-7 blue mobs relatively easy.

    As has been mentioned, the ability to "kite" and do damage from a distance while on the move is an amazing boon in PvP. Self-healing made it rediculously easy to stay up against multiple mobs. Against reavers, if you catch them before charge goes off from range, the fight was over before it began and with charge it is just another 30seconds of work. We actually have 4 HoT's we can use while in DPS mode (SoS, CoS, CoV and AotFP+Coda) those alone make spiders cry as each tick basically negates their damage. BA's while more adept now at attacking on the move, can basically be ran through for the win...just carry mits and CoS as soon as you get VT'ed and it is lolzville. Wargs, against good solo'ers there is a challenge, against noobs you can take 3-4 at a time. Defilers and Warleaders can both be beat because of our power restore as they can't just outlast us like they do many other classes.

    PvP really is a whole 'nother level class education. I suggest anyone that is a primary heals PvE healer go try out what you normally do in PvE land in a PvP raid and you will realize how much more difficult life is. No better healing education can be found. No amount of memorization of AI will save you and your raid members out there.

    I hope they make any WS heal nerfs moors only, but hey either way, life goes on.
    Last edited by Winterfell; Mar 13 2012 at 10:47 PM.
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  18. #18
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    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterfell View Post
    To the OP, I don't know if Mini is your main or if you have played the class for 4+ years, but if really is all about the traiting you chose to go out with and the mindset you play with. For you, most likely because of your traiting style and lack of kiting, you say you have difficulty with 2-3 blue mobs, to me this would boggle my mind. I don't say that in disrespect or because I play the Mini class better, but more because I know with how I build would demolish 5-7 blue mobs relatively easy.
    Ho ho! No, I started playing when F2P came in after I got disenchanted with WoW, decided I liked the game and signed up as VIP. Although Minstrel was my first character (the only healing class available to me at the time) I never really got into playing him and pretty much stopped bothering at about 36. I then picked up Moria and took a Warden which suited my addled old brain at the time (not too many buttons, plenty of combinations) and thoroughly enjoyed soloing and tanking with him right up until RoI when the bottom fell out of the tanking market. Still I dragged him up to level cap but really wasn't having any fun with him any more, so went back to my Minstrel to investigate the changes there; discovered that I really liked them and have been playing him as my main ever since. In between there may have been a Rune-Keeper and a Hunter but they're both still in their 40s. Traits-wise I tend to go for things that will boost the amount of damage that I do as opposed to traits that boost armour or vitality, this may explain why I'm a bit on the squishy side ... I suppose that given my loathing of kiting (I don't enjoy it - used to play a Bard in EQ - and I'm no good at turning on the move) it may be worth taking a look and traiting more toward armour and health. Incidentally, 2-3 mobs (depending on type of course) generally means I will have to bubble and heal, 5-7 and I'm in trouble though ... a lot of trouble. A large part of this may be gear-related, I strongly suspect that I'll be able to deal with mobs easier as my equipment goes above the quest/crafted curve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterfell View Post
    PvP really is a whole 'nother level class education. I suggest anyone that is a primary heals PvE healer go try out what you normally do in PvE land in a PvP raid and you will realize how much more difficult life is. No better healing education can be found. No amount of memorization of AI will save you and your raid members out there.
    If I do ever decide to poke my nose into the Moors it will be exclusively as a healer, though even if I do decide to give it a go I'm not so foolish as to try it before I hit level cap and get some decent equipment. It has to be said that I'm not a fan of PvP though, so any dips into the Moors are likely to be occasional at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterfell View Post
    I hope they make any WS heal nerfs moors only, but hey either way, life goes on.
    Indeed, though I'm enjoying post-RoI Minstreling so much more than pre-RoI and I really hope there isn't a return to what (for me) were the bad old days.
    [FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][COLOR="#FFD700"][SIZE=3][I]"Goddess of song, teach me the story of a hero"[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2521c0000001c9ba3/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Chile, South America
    Posts
    79

    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Binidj View Post
    Caveat: I don't do PvMP, I'm not interested in ever doing PvMP, and I know next to nothing about PvMP.

    I'm interested to know what it is about the Minstrel that makes it (apparently) so much more effective in PvMP than other classes. The simple fact is that Minstrels really aren't particularly overpowered in PvE, you have only to look at the "Minstrels can DPS now?" thread to see that our DPS is generally considered sub-optimal, we certainly can't "tank" effectively in PvE; I can toe-to-toe two, maybe three blue or on-level mobs but I'd be burning cooldowns to do that, and more than one on-level signature mob will force a retreat in short order. So in PvE we're ok, not the most resilient by a long way, nor capable of doing the most damage, and our instant-cast heals (one direct, one HoT) aren't particularly huge (when traited for soloing/DPS) and both have cooldowns, preventing chain-casting, but we're ok. In PvMP however, it seems that we're like unto gods ... and this I just don't understand. If we're just ok against world mobs whose AI and tactics are pretty rudimentary, how is it that the class fares so much better against creeps, who have human brains and cunning behind them? Why is it that a fun but unspectacular PvE class suddenly becomes more fearsome than any other class once it encounters creeps?

    Please can we try to keep this civil? I am genuinely curious but my tolerance for "OMG nerf teh minis" posts has pretty much expired. Also, if you don't indulge in PvMP can you avoid any "OMG we haz teh nerf bcoz creeps QQed" posts ... those are almost as tiresome.

    Help me Lazyweb, you're my only hope.
    2 words: Critical Defence.
    If we can't tank in PvE is because we get one-shooted most of the time. I guess in the moors the creeps doesn't crit enough, or not hard enough, and that's by design. Or so I have read in the forums.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    168

    Re: Alright then, about this PvMP lark ...

    I will try my hand at an answer, even though I am no where near a master like some of the minnis out there. I play casually so the raid gear comes slowly. I have 1 piece currently and the rest of my gear is a smattering of crafted and rep stuff. I can gear for more will/tact mastery, but for the sake of surviving I go for more morale and crit. I usually go 5R with red capstone, call of the wizards and rally as my legendaries with the other 2 taken up by improved raise the spirit and the one that gives you a higher crit chance for heals. (Just to give you a little background as to how I go out, I may be doing it wrong which may be why I die alot :/)
    For me, the higher crits: call to fate I have seen almost 2500, piercing cry around 1200, and a lucky call of the second age is around 1500. The rest of them only crit for around or less than 1k. Though the self heals are nice, with a low power pool(under 5k since my will is less than 1k) I have to go with the power restore coda. I have never really had any problems with single creeps(though I haven't been in pvp long), with more than 1 it is a challenge. Usually I get stunned/feared/rooted/slowed so the kiting while healing/dpsing hasn't gone much in my favor.
    After a stun/mez/fear I am usually down to around half health. I usually hit CoS which on a regular heal gives a little over 1k plus a HoT. After that I usually know how the fight is going to turn out, unless the creeps multiply(which happens a lot. Its fun, visiting the rez circle isn't as bad as pve since you don't damage armour.)
    If you are really curious about what the creep complaints are about it probably won't be answered here. You should create a creep(any class really), and when you pop up in ettens and realize after the "OMG I HAVE 10K HEALTH!!! SWEET!!" that you get a "OMG I ONLY DO 300 DMG PER HIT!!!!!!" I may be highballing that damage..... So yes, sometimes it seems unfair for a 6k morale minni to shatter a 10k+ creep. I have raised the question of whether time invested changes the outcome, being that I had to grind my way from 1 to 75 and they create a character and it is automatically 75, I usually hear that the outcome of the fights are roughly the same. I cannot confirm this as My creeps are only rank 1 and 2.....
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/062050000001719ab/signature.png]Easie[/charsig]

 

 

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