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  1. #1

    Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    Orion I would like to know what happened to my finesse on the Dirge-Singer's Raiments set. I thought it was suppose to have finesse on it to begin with but the detail was missed and then you were kind enough to give the finesse to us on the armor. Did this somehow mistakenly revert back to the original version in the update or was this an intentional change?

    Also, that means 2 of 2 (possibly 3 if one considers the 5 set harmony armor) raid healing armor sets are broken now if this was not intentional. The Armor of Thelin raid 5 set bonus does not affect the tool tip or the buff applied when inspire fellows is used (and therefore must be assumed to not be applying as the bonus is rather small which makes it hard to see if it is working and this is just a tool tip and buff icon issue). 2/3 of our gear having an error in it is not a good ratio.

    In both of these cases when can we expect this to be fixed? The arguably 2 best raid healing armor sets being broke (1 the five piece set bonus and the others finesse) is unacceptable. (and I have /bugged the the Thelin armor for all who care to know.)
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0e2150000000547bb/signature.png]Ofast[/charsig]

  2. #2

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    I'm feeling the finesse hurt as well.

    Also, I made a post in another thread that my anthems weren't broken. I'm taking that back, me and two other minis in the new 6 man had our ballads erasing eachothers' all over the place.

    Orion, you're needed here, we got some questions we would really appreciate being answered. I understand Wardens need their share of attention, far more than Minis do, with the massive rework they recieved but this update broke a lot of the mini mechanics.

    Currently issues that have yet to be adresses;

    • Finesse on armor, where did it go?
    • Anthems wiping on fellow with coda, how did this pop up?
    • Unconfirmed reports Codas are weaker than before, is this true?
    • Reports of minis attack speed being slowed, or is this server lag?


    On a more personal note, can you please please please just make an announcement on minis in the moors? Are they getting a nerf, are they not, so on and so forth? At this point I'm sick of seeing threads about it everywhere and no one is going to compromise anymore than the current position they hold. Just come out and say it so the creeps can go back to their forum and rage at another class and we minis can talk about things like how incredible the pigborn still sounds.
    Last edited by Acidiun; Mar 13 2012 at 01:18 PM.

  3. #3

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Acidiun View Post
    I'm feeling the finesse hurt as well.

    Also, I made a post in another thread that my anthems weren't broken. I'm taking that back, me and two other minis in the new 6 man had our ballads erasing eachothers' all over the place.

    Orion, you're needed here, we got some questions we would really appreciate being answered. I understand Wardens need their share of attention, far more than Minis do, with the massive rework they recieved but this update broke a lot of the mini mechanics.

    Currently issues that have yet to be adresses;

    • Finesse on armor, where did it go?
    • Anthems wiping on fellow with coda, how did this pop up?
    • Unconfirmed reports Codas are weaker than before, is this true?
    • Reports of minis attack speed being slowed, or is this server lag?


    On a more personal note, can you please please please just make an announcement on minis in the moors? Are they getting a nerf, are they not, so on and so forth? At this point I'm sick of seeing threads about it everywhere and no one is going to compromise anymore than the current position they hold. Just come out and say it so the creeps can go back to their forum and rage at another class and we minis can talk about things like how incredible the pigborn still sounds.


    Lol

    However, I doubt anything orion does will keep creeps from ccrying about minis. Just look at burgs, creeps qq about them still.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    214

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    I have tested my 5-piece Thelin set, and it CAN potentially give the -3% damage to the fellow.... but in 1% stacks.....which you don't have time to completely stack....... this is NOT useful (as a 5-piece bonus no less), it is cumbersome to apply (particularly in t2 content where the one-shot of -3% was most beneficial), and was unannounced; so I assume it is a mistake and would like to see the set corrected to one buff = total -3%.

    I reported this as a bug. I feel like our cast time is slower now, too, but I didn't report a feeling.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0d216000000076a07/01006/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    Doomsidoo - R5 defiler. DD
    Myfriend - R4 reaver. Ridder

  5. #5

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    Felt the same about the cast speed.
    And coda definitely does less damage.

    Thinking of getting some other set only due to the bug that finesse is missing...

    Please fix this fast.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/1e21d0000000059af/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  6. #6

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    Yeah I couldn't exactly tell whether it was server lag or attack speed, so I don't wanna jump onto that one...

    But my Coda of Fury is definitely weaker, maybe not in no-stance, because tbh I never checked what the output on it was before, but Warspeech Coda is for sure weaker... ~500dmg or so for me.

    Finesse is also definitely gone off of the Dirge-Singer's chestpiece
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/132130000000dfb59/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  7. #7

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Doomsie View Post
    I have tested my 5-piece Thelin set, and it CAN potentially give the -3% damage to the fellow.... but in 1% stacks.....which you don't have time to completely stack....... this is NOT useful (as a 5-piece bonus no less), it is cumbersome to apply (particularly in t2 content where the one-shot of -3% was most beneficial), and was unannounced; so I assume it is a mistake and would like to see the set corrected to one buff = total -3%.

    I reported this as a bug. I feel like our cast time is slower now, too, but I didn't report a feeling.
    Also if this was the intended bonus the set bonus would say IF stacks 3 times or something like that not IF reduces 3% of incoming damage. So until I hear otherwise I will continue to assume it is broken and our draigoch set is broken, making the 2 most useful healing sets broken which is not good.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0e2150000000547bb/signature.png]Ofast[/charsig]

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    5,157

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    I have just bugged anthems wiping on any Coda use again. There is absolutely zero reason to trait deep in PoS and heal in Harmony this way yet again.

    The other items are also confusing. How do things break again that were fixed?

    More importantly, can we expect fixes to Codas wiping, Finesse on Draigoch, and some sort of answer on attack speed (if there indeed has been a change - and if so, why)?

    Thanks!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Chile, South America
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    79

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    Almost all the end-game sets are broken, the bubble was nerfed so bad is useless (not that it was good to beging with, why on earth did they nerfed it?), anthem of war was nerfed too (or not? the tooltip still says it gives 20% meele), and our coda was ninja-nerfed, unless it's a bug like the last time back when our codas wiped other minis anthems. I suspect that to be the case, if not I'm gonna be MAD.
    All in all, worst update for minis. At least not so bad as the moria one.

    And for the attack speed, seems like all other classes are getting that, or at least wardens.

  10. #10
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    Jun 2010
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    2,238

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by AtzumoKayami View Post
    And for the attack speed, seems like all other classes are getting that, or at least wardens.
    Hunters, too.

    See here: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...-Duration-Nerf

  11. #11

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    i noticed the coda damage lower as well. i personally havent noticed any of the other stuff. the slower attack duration i put down to lag, as BW was laggy all day yesterday. however my coda normally hits for 1900-2400 non-crit, pre u6. now, im hitting around 1400-1800. i actually dev crit for 3.6 yesterday considering that is a normal crit normally, i am very disappointed.
    Lugbur, R11 Reaver ./. Guthfred, R9 Captain ./. Guthblade, R9 Chamption ./. Muzluck, R9 Warg + Various other toons of different rank and class.

  12. #12

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    What I've noticed about minstrels so far is:

    1.) Coda damage has been nerfed for about 25%

    2.) Tower of Orthanc healing set - Armour of Thelin - is not working. 5 piece set bonus should be -3% damage on Inspire Fellows buff but it is only -1%, like the default is

    3.) Tower of Orthanc dps set - Armour of Hadollin - is not working. 5 piece set bonus should give 25% critical magnitude on cries and calls. However, even before update 6, I've noticed that it doesn't quite work that way. After severa testing on training dummy in Galtrev, I've come to conclusion that it's not working at all. I'm criting for exactly the same values with both healing and dps set. To be honest, sometimes even higher with healing set.

    4.) Once again coda wipes all present anthem buffs from fellowship. Especially intereseting things happen if two minstrels are grouped up. Let's say minstrel A has 3 ballads buf and minstrel B has 3 ballads buff. After minstrel A has used his coda, minstrel B still have 3 ballads buff but coda skill get's grayed out and not allowed to use, althout it is perfectly clear that minstrel have 3 ballad buffs present. Only way to fix it - use ballad skills three times and be faster on coda then the other minstrel.

    5.) Dirge-singer's Jacket - Draigoch's chest piece - doesn't have any finesse at all.ž

    6.) It seems that attack speed has been changed. For worse.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    672

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianrial View Post
    There is absolutely zero reason to trait deep in PoS and heal in Harmony this way yet again.
    I still went that way last night when we went to check out the new instance, but I sure felt semi-useless . I'll still heal 4 deep in the yellow line, but mostly in Melody I guess. I want my working harmony stance back! It's so much more fun to play, and more helpful to the group in many situations, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianrial View Post
    How do things break again that were fixed?
    I'm guessing here, but I'd say somebody was doing work on the minstrel and based their work on some old version of the code, maybe even starting before the last round of fixes was implemented and not realizing they didn't have the most up-to-date version of the class to begin with . Shouldn't happen, but occasionally does when several people are working on the same piece of code for different reasons.

  14. #14

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramor View Post
    I'm guessing here, but I'd say somebody was doing work on the minstrel and based their work on some old version of the code, maybe even starting before the last round of fixes was implemented and not realizing they didn't have the most up-to-date version of the class to begin with . Shouldn't happen, but occasionally does when several people are working on the same piece of code for different reasons.
    Yes - would also say that this is done in different code copies (Branches). And in the end they forgot to put the changes from one copy to the other and vice verca (Merging). So hopefully this was really just forgotten, they find the changes and do the merge now.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/1e21d0000000059af/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  15. #15
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    79

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan. View Post
    Yes - would also say that this is done in different code copies (Branches). And in the end they forgot to put the changes from one copy to the other and vice verca (Merging). So hopefully this was really just forgotten, they find the changes and do the merge now.
    See, the thing is that no-one mind this kind of things because they are honest mistakes (or at least I don't), even if they shouldn't happen (we are so used to Turbine screwing up by now, it makes no sense to care about it). What I'm upset is that this didn't make it to the know issues list, and has not been acknowledged yet by a blue name, so we don't even know when this is gonna get fixed (IF it does). But hey, maybe we'll have to wait till next update in a couple of months like last time.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    3,437

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    I also noticed a significant Coda decrease and loss of finesse. Contrary to all the claims, the devs know the big picture (both from what minis can do AND what tools others have to counter with)... so hopefully this will be addressed soon.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    313

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    Lol I was wondering last night why my minis finesse was at 1k. As for the attack duration problems, that seems to be a server lag thing afaik.
    -Findaratos mini ~ Shock and Awe
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  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    214

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    Another issue I noticed (in PvMP) last night was that my Still as Death was interrupted once it was already active, by either wargs and/or spiders (I tried to determine which in my combat log, right after still as death, a warg attack showed doing damage, it was late, so I don't remember which now, sorry). It wasn't interrupted mid-fall, as I know that can happen, even to spiders burrowing. I was interrupted when I was already laying on the ground for a second or two. I heard that some creep could interrupt Hobbit Silence from some other players also.

    ^^^^^ Was this intended? I reported it as a bug/possible exploit, because I recall nothing of this function reported as "intended" anywhere (let me know if I'm wrong). If it wasn't intended, I want to see this fixed, too. The combination of our bubble being nerfed, with creep being able to break already-active Still as Death (and other issues I won't continue to list) puts a sudden and large dent in our survivability >>.

    If it was intended, then we cope (we cope either way...), but I feel as though there is an exploit attached to the updated skills of some creep.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0d216000000076a07/01006/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
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  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    3,437

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Doomsie View Post
    ...

    If it was intended...
    This explains a lot. I believe this happened to me as well, but I chalked it up as lag.

    However... if it was intended... we have a lot to discuss about the skills on the other side of the ettens

  20. #20

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    Could be due to a reported "issue" with Wargs in Shadow stance having certain skills apply as if used from stealth thereby cutting through any chance to be avoided (not sure how turbine's coders calculate SaD's abilities, but if they can't even use their own version control I won't be suprised if SaD uses god-like numbers of avoidance or something).
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2b22500000005f6d5/01006/signature.png]Gwaithollien[/charsig]

    Ninith WDN 75 | Gwaithollien CHM 75 | Cebra MIN 75 | Lylyth RK 68

  21. #21

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    I experienced the same thing as a hobbit minstrel. First I used Still as Death, and it got interupted while I was laying down already. Then I wondered how that was possible, and to survive I quickly pressed Hobbit-silence. But that one got interupted too! Looks like these skills lost a lot of their use in the Ettenmoors.
    [center]Asylum - [EN] Gilrain[/center]

  22. #22

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    I got attacked through Still as Death pre-update 6 anyhow, never trusted that move to begin with. I just use it when I can to make creeps wait 30s for their kill
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/132130000000dfb59/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  23. #23

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    in i think its flayer stance, when wargs use claws with brute bonus, it puts an effect on you that interrupts inductions every 4 seconds for 24 seconds i believe it is. that is probably what is interrupting feign for yougguys/
    Lugbur, R11 Reaver ./. Guthfred, R9 Captain ./. Guthblade, R9 Chamption ./. Muzluck, R9 Warg + Various other toons of different rank and class.

  24. #24

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by 0987654321 View Post
    in i think its flayer stance, when wargs use claws with brute bonus, it puts an effect on you that interrupts inductions every 4 seconds for 24 seconds i believe it is. that is probably what is interrupting feign for yougguys/
    Wow a signature creep helping out info in a Minstrel forum!!! +rep for you mate and I think you're correct in spotting the issue. Good on you mate.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2b22500000005f6d5/01006/signature.png]Gwaithollien[/charsig]

    Ninith WDN 75 | Gwaithollien CHM 75 | Cebra MIN 75 | Lylyth RK 68

  25. #25

    Re: Orion minstrel armor and finesse Issues

    I love how much stuff is broken when it comes to Minnies.

    They forgot Finesse on the Draigoch set. They added it. They accidentally removed it again.

    They broke Anthems wiping. They fixed it. They broke it again.

    Now I hear they've broken a ToO set bonus...when already one didn't work (the Warspeech set 5 bonus does nothing at all).

    Wonderful.
    [CENTER][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0220400000008bdab/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
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