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  1. #1
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    Healing Draigoch

    Hello, fellow Minis

    I am hoping to try Draigoch soon and I am concerned about the distributed damage in the dps (paw) gropus. How do you heal them? Do you need to stay in harmony + anthems for that or it can be done in melody? Any tips/rotations would be welcome, as I am not feeling able to constantly heal a group where everybody is constantly taking damage...

    Thank's a lot
    Óscar

  2. #2
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    Re: Healing Draigoch

    Draig is extremely easy if you have people who know what they are doing. The paw attacks are not only distributive, but are relative to the player distance, so if everyone stacks on top of eachother, they hardly take any damage, while if they are all scattered about somebody will die if they are squishy. Try to see if there are any kins or experienced groups running it for your first time so you can get a feel for the patterns and rules for beating the dragon. Good luck.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Healing Draigoch

    I prefer to heal 5y/2b with dual tales in harmony for Draigoch. I can normally heal the whole time without a single raise the spirit or bolster courage.

  4. #4
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    Re: Healing Draigoch

    The setup (as in traits / etc.) is not really that important. Have your normal healing setup as you like it.
    Also i suggest healing the DPS group first - and not the tank - on your first run in there.

    Key to the claws, as you already know, is the distributed damage. Also the fire sometimes with the claws - which just needs to be avoided.

    Phase 1 and 2 are very simple to heal for the minstrel - and you should absolutely have no problems with it.
    Healing Phase 3 is a bit more tasking. On the ground between 4 claws the distributed damage is alot more present - and there grouping up alot more important. At this stage you will usually have both grps (t2) back together again - and therefore 2 healers + capts.

    Now healing the tank up top is another matter - and you will have to be alot more alert to different things. Spike damage, moving to next position, fire breath, positioning of yourself and tank, etc...

    Jump in and try it - don´t worry it will be fun

  5. #5

    Re: Healing Draigoch

    I'll agree that you use whichever traits line you feel comfortable with.

    My average geared minnie so far managed to complete all Draig raids. Traited 5y/2b with Protector of Song, Harmony stance. Mitigation and Will/Fate provided by dual Tales (Tale of Warding and Heroism), while 3 Anthems (Anthem of Prowess > Anthem of the Free Peoples > Anthem of War) provided DPS and mitigation/morale regen buffs somehow eased the healing needed to go for every fellows, especially the squishies. My Anthems are coupled with duration legacy.
    I could get away with Major>Perfect>Major Ballads, so I could put an anthem quickly. Non-Harmony Major Ballad is just so slow to become useable when charging in the claw.

    Your quick heals are your best friends here, traited Raise the Spirit and Improved Chord of Salvation (with -cooldown legacy). I find it useful for quick healing squishies when they're critted by the claws, and in phase 3 when you'll be consistently interrupted by Draig shaking the gound.
    Take advantage of Cry of the Valar's group HoT.

    Pop your bubble before you stack up with your fellows. At least this give you time to disregard yourself for a while and focus on your fellows, stacking Ballads and Anthems.

    Also, it goes without saying that pair up with a good Captain helps alot

    Good luck.
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  6. #6

    Re: Healing Draigoch

    Our kin runs usually consist of 2 minstrels, 1 guardian, 1 warden, 2 cappies (if possible), 2 burglars (if possible), 2 champs, 2 hunters. We've stopped using a healer on the tank (who uses the proximity method, hey if it works use it too), our FM team is usually the 2 burglars, 1 minstrel, 1 cappie, 2 champs and the other group we tag as "ranged" meaning they tend to not engage in melee range of the claws during phases 1 and 2.

    Most of the group are fairly competent but things do happen, especially in phase 3. To stress the most important aspect other than a good tank and FM team is positioning and moving as group, again, positioning and moving as a group to evenly distribute the damage taken. Personally as a light armour class and having a lower mitigation cap we do feel the hits harder and this can lead to some interesting situations. Your bubble is your friend, use it as often as you can or save it for some oh carp moments, but DO USE IT.

    I've gotten used to healing in Melody (null) stance, traited a minimum of 5B although in many cases I roll 7B for various reasons but think that with a good team you can get away with 4B/3Y in Harmony.

    The front claws (top) are almost always easier on damage than the rear claws (bottom) so be prepared for this.

    Most times I'm part of the FM team and a usual rotation (strange saying that) is ICoS (max cooldown legacied), Inspire Fellows (- incoming damage buff), ICotV (group hot and some dps) followed by IRtS on either the healer in the other fellowship or someone who needs it most (since the other fellowship has one less player to take damage they may need more help staying up). I do tend to over-heal a little bit but that's me being cautious.

    Regarding Anthems the great thing about being in Melody stance is that I can hit major ballad while running to a new claw position if still in combat and get there with an Anthem ready to be applied without resorting to CoC or wasting time between healing to try and get one up. Generally I use a swap book to get Anthem of War (+20% melee damage gonna miss you) up or Anthem of the Third Age for rear claws or phase 3.

    The weak side of the heavy blue build is the lack of multiple Anthems though. One trick I tend to use is get Anthem of Composure up as close to the time before he gets up after dps'ing his body to Coda and get the PoT as we're running back into the tunnels or safe spot during phase 3.

    Other than that just stay alive yourself and at least have Rally! cooldown legacy maxed. Some runs can be a walk in the park (except phase 3) and other runs can be pure hell. I'll end off with one last tip and that is get as many HoT's as you can on the main tank during phase 3 when your group is dps'ing the front claws or when everyone is bunching up near the tail when he does his fly in the air thing.

    Wishing you the best of luck on your scale rolls!
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  7. #7
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    Re: Healing Draigoch

    i recently done a draigoch and i was healing the DPS GROUP and we smashed through it i was heling in harmony and i had tale of heroism toggle and it was really easy...i also hope to heal the top soon.

  8. #8
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    Re: Healing Draigoch

    I've been healing Draigoch in war-speech - its easy enough. I mostly rely on the AoE heals from Cry of the Valar and Improved Chord of Salvation. If someone takes a big dip in morale, I drop it and toss a few BCs their way and get back into the stance quickly so I can continue contributing to DPS.

    I'm also experimenting with doing this while yellow traited and provide several anthems to up DPS.
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  9. #9
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    Re: Healing Draigoch

    Thank you all, guys

    I am used to 4B/3Y in Melody so I'll go like that, but I'd love to try 4Y/3B sometime: the 5s anthem cooldown looks awesome, but I'm not sure I would be able to keep up with it. I love the blue line traits, but also the yellow line bonuses.

    BTW, is the setback proof trait for BC anything good in phase 3?


    Quote Originally Posted by Cebra View Post
    The weak side of the heavy blue build is the lack of multiple Anthems though. One trick I tend to use is get Anthem of Composure up as close to the time before he gets up after dps'ing his body to Coda and get the PoT as we're running back into the tunnels or safe spot during phase 3.
    Cebra, are you aware of this?

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...em-coda-effect


    Óscar

  10. #10
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    Re: Healing Draigoch

    Quote Originally Posted by avaaescaner View Post
    the 5s anthem cooldown looks awesome, but I'm not sure I would be able to keep up with it.
    Not feeling "forced to keep up with it" is one of the keys for healing 4y/3b as I have experienced it. If I have the time I do get into a rotation of hitting an anthem every time the cooldown is up and hitting heals inbetween as needed (there's usually time for a Chord of Salvation and a Bolster Courage or similar between two anthems). If things get hectic keeping up all anthems takes a back seat for me, and I treat the lower cooldown more as a means to have anthems (and coda effects) frequently available rather than a must-use.

    This way, a large part of most fights goes more smoothly for me and my fellowship since the multiple anthems go quite a way to prevent damage, and I'm able to chain ballads plus anthem plus coda frequently when things go down-hill (e.g. having two combinations of anthem of the free people plus coda plus free bolster courage back to back without having to wait for the anthem to be available again). For me, having frequent access to coda effects in emergencies is as much part of the yellow line as having multiple anthems up on the fellowship.

    Don't feel forced to put out as many anthems as you have available all the time. There's a time for anthems, and there's a time when they have to take a back seat to coda and other skills. For me, the later are rare and usually not all that long, but they certainly exist, especially in the harder end-game encounters.

  11. #11

    Re: Healing Draigoch

    What many people often do not realize is the healing potential in harmony through using the coda. When you have Anthem of War and Anthem of Composure up (plus any other Anthems), hitting the Coda provides a significant group heal, and returns power to you. Combine that with Inspire Fellows and you can heal Drag in your sleep. Yes, I understand that using the Coda wipes your ballads, but then you just fire off three more, contributing a little dps, and go right back to your anthem and coda rotation. I use this setup (5Y/2B) with combined tales to heal Tower of Orthanc T2 lightning, so it should be more than sufficient for Drag. (as noted before, this assumes your group isn't brainless, with one person trying to solo a claw)

    Also, what a lot of groups do not understand is that the tank up top should have no need to be healed. The tank just needs to stand in front of the head, and unless this has changed since Update 6, need never fire off an aggro skill. The head will aggro someone else, but it will never hit them, even if they are on the second floor. I (or one of the cappies) usually has head aggro in Phases 1 and 2 and the tank plays Angry Birds in between running from window to window. The same thing applies in Phase 3. The tank just needs to stand there, and all will be well. And if by chance he/she does get aggro randomly at the start, they can usually pledge through it or use Catch a Breath to stay up (assuming they are decently geared).

    PS just read through Bramor's post and realized I duplicate some of it. But it goes to show, healing in harmony rocks. Don't underestimate the power of the anthems (or the coda).
    Last edited by Iodan; Mar 15 2012 at 10:33 AM.
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  12. #12

    Re: Healing Draigoch

    Quote Originally Posted by avaaescaner View Post
    Cebra, are you aware of this?
    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...em-coda-effect
    Óscar
    Hmmmmmm.... thank you for that link, going to test this out tonight for sure!
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  13. #13

    Re: Healing Draigoch

    Long story short, it can easily be done in Melody (and I usually do 4B/3Y). The hardest part is definately Phase 3...if you lose track of where people are going, it's easy to be caught out of position and then you could be in trouble. Don't hesitate to use your bubble.

  14. #14

    Re: Healing Draigoch

    What about being the tanks pocket healer? Any advice there?
    During one run, my pocket healer kept dying. Finally it got to the point where the raid leader let her stay dead and sent a captain to keep me up.

    I told the healer that she should stand out of sight of the head but that was the only advice I could give her.
    She is a new 75 and doesn't have the best gear, does that matter? (I didn't have the best gear when I started tanking driag but then I'm usually getting heals anyways so I don't know...)

    @ Iodan: One of the theories floating around about things that makes Draig go brain dead is the tank not having aggro on the head. If the head aggros someone and they die, then the chances of him bugging are raised. That being said, I used to run it that way as well. I would just stand in front of the head and not get aggro. However, what I do now (when i have an experienced healer with me up top) is grab aggro from the start, that way he doesn't aggro any other raid member, and let the healer heal me, then aggro transfers to the healer. Since the healer can't get hurt, thus die, then it helps with the potential of him going brain dead.

  15. #15
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    Re: Healing Draigoch

    Quote Originally Posted by Anwiga View Post
    What about being the tanks pocket healer? Any advice there?
    During one run, my pocket healer kept dying.
    If the healer get hit by the head it is indeed his mistake. Of course you as a tank have to stay as far from the head as possible, but still in melee range, and the healer should stay as far from you as possible, just to be in healing range. Two steps closer and he could be one shoted by the head.
    But, if he dies from fire when dragon changes his position - it is most likely tanks mistake for being too slow to tell the group what side is the dragon moving.
    Last edited by MightyKOko; Mar 16 2012 at 10:22 AM.
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  16. #16

    Re: Healing Draigoch

    Regarding healing the tank up top, you should stay at max range when healing; and make sure the tank is staying far enough back to remain in line of site. At that range you should never get hit by the head. As for the fire, each round of Phase I and Phase II are on timers, I believe 45s and 1m30s (but I could be wrong). About 15s before the round ends, the healer leaves the tank and runs to the opposite side of the room. Unless the tank is extremely poorly geared, they should easily be able to survive alone that long. Then when Drag breathes fire, just head in the direction the tank runs. You have zero risk of getting burned and the tank will be back to full health before Drag lands again.

    @Anwiga Your theory is interesting, but I have heard so many people with their own explanation as to why Drag bugs (bleeds killing a claw as he goes green, no more than 2 cjs per round, target aggro issues, pets, etc.) that I have trouble believing any of them. Our kin has basically run Drag at least weekly since it came out, and beyond the first couple weeks it was one tank up top, after about a month its been one tank with no healer and no attempt to pull aggro. Sometimes Drag bugs, usually he doesn't. We have never been able to find a consistent reason as to why he bugs, and I honestly don't think its as simple as a single reason.
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  17. #17

    Re: Healing Draigoch

    Ah, thank you for the tip. I'll be sure to pass it along to the healer and use it myself when I start healing Draig on my mini (only lvl 54 atm). Since then she's been only wanting to heal the dps group.

    Oh right, but the people I run Draig with take every precaution to not bug.
    Limit on the cjs, no pets, no flags, tank aggro, all that jazz.
    Lucky you, of the last three times I've run Draig, he's bugged. My kin is just starting to get enough capped players to run it as a kin run, though we are lacking a burg and our healers are all newly 75. People in GLFF are saying he's even buggier now since U6, though I don't know if its true.

  18. #18
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    Re: Healing Draigoch

    Topside Healing: Just hit the guard with SoS and that's enough to keep him alive and proxy aggroed in ph 1 and 2. Phase 3 just hit him with SoS again each time the dragon flies up and everyone runs to the gray spot. In phase 2 I always also bubble when we move (on myself) just incase I trip on an invisible rock or so, just to make sure I don't drop. Phase 3 I keep my anthems up and do a Chord of Salvation while standing on the gray spot, or Coda if in Harmony. Topside is the easiest healing job I've ever had.

    Bottomside Healing: Keep the group stacked up. That's about it. Damage will be minimal and can be healed with Major Ballad and Anthem of the Free Peoples alone.
    Last edited by jeswin; Mar 21 2012 at 10:21 AM.
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  19. #19

    Re: Healing Draigoch

    I always heal the DPS group in Draigoch, as the other main mini in my kin is totally awesome healing the tank. Now that the raid team knows exactly where to stand, I go into Draigoch 5y/2b and focus on keeping Anthem of War and Anthem of Prowess up throughout the battle (this means I stay in the FM group, since there are 6 DPS members to buff rather than 4). In fact last night I went in WS throughout phase 1 and phase 2 since if everyone knows where to stand (have someone show you - it's farther away than you'd think) and stacks up properly no one takes any damage - I just keep Anthem of the Free Peoples up.

    Now for phase 3 I usually drop to melody, keep the same anthems up, use Inspire Fellows and only hit my coda if a member (usually of the other fellowship) is in trouble. (Last night he bugged in phase 2 so I didn't have the opportunity to do this, and that was my first post-U6 try at Draigoch.) I am addicted to melody Anthem of the Third Age - Coda - Bolster Courage - Chord of Salvation but I suspect many minstrels would do this in harmony for the big fellowship heal coda. I just haven't quite got that one worked out right.

    Of course, if your group chooses to DPS the claws in melee, as some groups do, you will have considerably more work to do. We are a very hunter-happy kinship so range works for us, even if the burglar gets a bit bored.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Healing Draigoch

    Hi guys

    I wanted to come back at you to say that yesterday I did my first Draigoch with a great group. People knew what they were doing and it was pretty fast. Thank you for all your advices.

    I was assigned as the tank healer: 4B/3Y melody, armour/hope tale, keeping the +parry shield, SoS, Free People & Prowess (*) on him, just needed a BC from time to time to avoid getting bored. The rest was following the tank. Not sure whether my mini was too close to the head though... sometimes I could see it in order to be in visual of the Guard. Anyway, the healing in phases 1 & 2 was soooo easy... the only problem was ¿hot gold? when moving, so I started using the bubble and got ready for a CoS on myself. I had to lower the graphic settings (old computer) and couldn't make out the hot gold from the cold one perhaps because of that...

    Down on phase 3, I was not sure where to stay. Starting alone, far to a side of the tank and little to the back of the dragon, it was pretty smooth at first, but then I got killed, not sure by what (always stayed far from the claws and was regrouping with everybody when the dragon flew). Anyway, the tank was holding pretty well even without me... Someone told (me) to always stay behind the head, but then I just packed with the rest of the raid in the claws and checked that the tank could also be healed from there.

    (*) I had some kind of problem with my anthems in phase 1. After entering combat, I got 3 major ballads up and was able to throw an anthem or two, but then their skill icons got grayed and I couldn't throw more anthems. And yes, I was in combat and was able to use ballads. When the head moved, and a new combat started, the same thing: 1 or 2 anthems and locked again. Eventually it got back to normal (I think during phase 2), but is was awkward...


    Óscar

  21. #21

    Re: Healing Draigoch

    Quote Originally Posted by avaaescaner View Post
    Hello, fellow Minis

    I am hoping to try Draigoch soon and I am concerned about the distributed damage in the dps (paw) gropus. How do you heal them? Do you need to stay in harmony + anthems for that or it can be done in melody? Any tips/rotations would be welcome, as I am not feeling able to constantly heal a group where everybody is constantly taking damage...

    Thank's a lot
    Óscar
    1. Everyone moves in together. This will really help to minimize the amount of distributed damage.
    2. Occassionally there will be fire on the ground, if one or more people are standing in this fire they will likely die.
    3. Raise the Spirit traited for no induction helps a tonne in Phase 3.
    4. Fellowship healing over time dots from Chord of Salvation and Cry of the Valour help out the healing a bunch.
    5. In phase 3 start off with Cry of the Chorus, and then use the Anthem that decreases the time to cast your healing spells. This will make casting Inspire Fellows and Bolster Courage viable healing skills for a short while, then you can fallback on Raise the Spirit.
    6. In phase 3 kill the rear claws first, then the front claws last. This will help to prevent the group from receiving distributed damage from multiple claws.
    7. In phase 3 have the tank who is tanking the head range aggro / dps the front claws to pull aggro.
    During phases 1 & 2 a group should not be taking much damage, and there should be ZERO deaths. Between the fellowship healing dots from CoS and CoV a couple Inspire Fellows should be the only healing necessary during phases 1 & 2. If however the group is taking too much damage during phase 1 or 2 they can step all the way back away from the claw and not take damage, allowing the healer(s) to catch up.

    Phase 3 is when you have to really heal your butt off. However, again there are safe positions even in phase 3, such as the tail.

    I always preach that control is better than doing a big dps race.

  22. #22

    Re: Healing Draigoch

    I generally heal the DPS group with a 4Y 3R build, with all traits for ballads, noble's strike, and anthem cooldowns. The AoE coda, with some noble strike added is more than enough to keep the group alive, so most of the time I just keep the DPS anthems up while spamming ballads. No need for any blue trait in this fight. If someone does get low, a chord is generally enough.

    When Draigoch goes into the air at p3 you may want to use inspire fellow, but at other times it usually gets wasted by knockbacks.

  23. #23
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    Re: Healing Draigoch

    Quote Originally Posted by avaaescaner View Post
    (*) I had some kind of problem with my anthems in phase 1. After entering combat, I got 3 major ballads up and was able to throw an anthem or two, but then their skill icons got grayed and I couldn't throw more anthems. And yes, I was in combat and was able to use ballads. When the head moved, and a new combat started, the same thing: 1 or 2 anthems and locked again. Eventually it got back to normal (I think during phase 2), but is was awkward...
    I have found that this was a multi minstrel bug...

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...da-and-anthems

  24. #24

    Re: Healing Draigoch

    Currently, if you have two Minstrels in the same fellowship group and one of them uses their Coda then the Ballads and Anthems for the other Minstrel will be dispelled as though that Minstrel had also used their Coda. What's confusing for the other Minstrel is that their Ballads will apear to remain up, in their buff bar, but will indeed need to be recast. It is a very annoying bug.

 

 

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