I read the original post, but skipped a lot of the replies after the original. However, that original post is as relevant today as the day it was posted. I agree with the original in its entirety!
The hunter is still the most neglected class of all the LOTRO classes. I speak not only from a PVE perspective but from a PVP/PVMP perspective as well. I have been playing LOTRO since the stress test. I bought my VIP before the game went public and have played most of the classes. I have stuck with the hunter even when it is maligned by the other players. We have been referred to as huntards, etc...
In order to effectively fix the hunter for PVMP play we would need to have our escape skill, Desperate Flight, repaired or modified to give us a chance to get out of harms way. I am not asking for it to take me completely out of the realm of battle; that would cause more QQing from the creeps and creep lovers. In fact, I usually prefer to try and fight against the 1v1 odds, but when the odds are overwhelming, the game tends to lose its fun factor...
The Devs have been thoughtful enough to give the Blood Arrows a 15 second evade with which they cannot be cc'd in any way, and they take zero damage during that time. That in combination with their skirmishers stance spells doom for any hunter, and other classes. And now with the wargs have their new skills and mitigation; the fact is that the wargs run in packs now; as a result, the hunter is targeted for destruction and easily dispatched by two wargs, or a combination of wargs and other creep classes. Of course, the wargs are able to HIPS and sprint away from harm, while the hunter has had our escape mechanism stripped from us; Also, the reaver, is able to use dying rage to escape giving renown to the freep/s. The reaver may die as a result of using "dying rage", but that doesn't change the facts. So what is the big deal with DF?
The fact that you have allowed for creeps and at least one other freep class keep their escape mechanism, which has allowed for them to avoid damage or defeat, makes the argument for the nerfing of DF a moot point. I understand that creeps would argue otherwise; But when simple logical analysis and thinking is put to the pen, there in no real good reason for DF to have been nerfed in the first place other than to appease the hurt and qq of the creep players.
If you so-called conscientious Developers cannot see your way to fix or modify what was nerfed as an escape mechanism, perhaps you could see your way clear to please fix our mitigation. First you nerf our mitigation and then you give us this finesse that is supposed to make things better and make it look like you really care. If that isn't enough, after much QQing by the creeps, you make more changes to the Moors and have the "Audacity" (pun intended) to give us armor that has poor stats, removes more of our ability to survive in the Moors, and only gives hunters a few more seconds to live because you want to make battles last longer. Battle does last a few seconds longer because it only takes a few seconds (if that long) for two or three creeps to destroy my hunter, even with +5 audacity.
Your new armor drops our meager +3 stealth detection we get on the Studded Hlifheror armor and rewards it with armor set rewards that are mediocre at best and really don't help that much. In order to get a good set of the new pvp armor, we have to mix and match the new sets (usually two pieces from each set) just to get decently geared up. Furthermore, the lack of mitigation makes it extremely difficult for us to get the commendations needed to get the "audacity" armor...I have been told by other players that they can get up to 3000 commendations a day or more playing on creepside...
There is more that can be done, but this reply is getting long. If it sounds like I am pissed-off, perhaps it is because I am a bit perturbed. I bought my VIP membership in good faith that the class of my choice would be kept in balance with the other classes. This has not happened. I could roll another class, but why should I discard a character that I have spent hundreds of hours trying to perfect just because the developer/s of this game have taken a disliking to that class, or choose to pander to the QQing creep classes?
Furthermore, is there some really good reason why we can never get a decent reply and explanation from the developers???
[B][I]Stars...We don't need no stinking Stars!
“If you wound us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that” ~William Shakespeare
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ~Mark Twain
My complaint is completely relevant, my poorly geared RK is ably to max healing with ease and still be able to stack mits. It makes the most of it raid spot. My hunter is far better geared, but to make the most of it raid spot I drop my mits below my light armor RK.
Burgs and hunters are both agility based classes, well geared burgs can easily have as much agility as well geared hunters. Hunters are medium armor, RKs are light. A well geared hunter should have more mitigation than a poorly geared RK.
Condescending can be defined as follows: Acting in a way that betrays a feeling of patronizing superiority (google.com).
When you repeatedly state that not only am I gearing incorrectly, but that you know how they ought to be geared, yes that seems condescending.
Greetings all! I would like to say thanks to the OP, excellent breakdown along with a few other replies to this thread as well.
I haven't raided much in the past and am currently non-vip so I figured I would add my 2 cents from the aspect of the average hunter.
Let's start out with our LI's, yes they need improvement and maybe some consolidation of legacies. The only thing I'd like to add is please give us something besides 1% crit chance on auto attacks that identifies with the bow.
A few people brought up some fantastic ideas with the campfires, and I totally agree there. They are pretty lame right now and would be quite useful if they provided some in combat power or morale regen. Adding herbs to them would be nice to change their effects on the groups as well.
Improved focus is nice and all, but why doesn't this have different options depending on what stance we are in? Those that start in endurance or precision probably don't want to have the extra crit % right off the bat.
Desperate flight.. who even uses that anymore? It was ok at lower levels when soloing but the cool down (and the fact you get mapped to the "nearest" rez circle) kinda makes it a lame skill. I would maybe suggest something like it takes you out of combat and gives you a temporary run speed buff. That way you get your ooc morale and power regen and the ability to sprint past your tank if you're in a group to hope he gets the aggro back. The cool down definitely needs to be addressed too.
Ranged leeching skill is an awesome idea for us to gain some morale back. I would love to be able to pop one of those off every minute or two even.
Currently the "improved" strength of earth skill, well, needs to be further improved. To long of an induction for the payout, same with press onward. If we get interrupted with either, we're screwed with a long cool down.
Aggro dump/transfer skill.. I don't know much about this one since I don't group much, but it sounds like a great idea. There has been a time or two where I've been in the unfortunate spot of getting aggro and the others in my group not being able to pick it back up very quickly.
I've recently just started playing around with traits since I've been reading the tips that other hunters have been putting out there on the forums. Pre-RoI I was full trapper traited and had no idea how much dps loss that I really had with that setup. The advantage to it then was I never had power problems ever, even soloing and mobs rarely ever touched me. Now it's a juggling act just to stay alive.
Anyway, that pretty much sums up my concerns with hunters. I've always enjoyed playing one as my main, and I doubt that will change unless some other update kills us. Thanks for all the advice that the veteran hunters have provided!
Last edited by Elrantiri; Apr 06 2012 at 09:36 AM.
Last edited by Elrantiri; Apr 06 2012 at 11:13 AM.
RK orthanc set, plus empathy, plus dragon cloak, plus martial training: 4796
Hunter orthanc set, plus theodred crit crafted cloak: 4523
There is no way a medium armor wearer should ever have less armor value than a light armor wearer at equal level.
Just for the hell of it, I checked the champ Orthanc Set plus theodred: 5689
Hunter orthanc, empathy, dragon: 5441
Cannot match much less exceed a similarly geared heavy class with a weaker cloak and no empathy.
And a minstrel can do it even easier with a 920 armor value shield, which is 357 more armor than the 563 RK's get from Martial Training.
My hunter doesn't have enough mitigation, that's the issue. My build is well balanced for nearly every fight in Orthanc, but in order to make best use of my spot, it means lowering mitigations below my RK, a class that should be rather squishy.
Last edited by Elrantiri; Apr 06 2012 at 04:38 PM.
I think before changes to stances/skills/traits are made, hunter roles should be revisited and set with clear goals.
Example: Red-solo line. Blue- group dps line. Yellow- group support line. or Red-dps / Blue-support / Yellow-solo.
Because what we have now is a mess where nothing is clearly defined. All 3 lines allow hunter to solo very good, both red and blue are good for group dps, yellow is used in about 5% of group content. And that is just from PvE point of view, I am sure pvmp players have their own vision.
I think trying to make difference between "burst" and "sustained" dps via 2 different trait lines leaves no space for further expansion of hunter as a class. It leaves only 1 line to be used for something else like a group support, solo survivability, pvmp viable, etc.
Thus I think defining 1 line as clear dps pick would help. I don't care if it will be blue red or yellow, just make it very clear that only one of them is envisaged as THE dps line for group play. For example when you are inviting warden to tank, you know there is 99% probability he is using blue traits. Or when you invite LM to raid because the mobs hit really hard, you know he will be using yellow traits. I don't see what is the problem with hunter having only one trait line as main for group dps.
That will leave 2 other lines for something else. For example group support (cc/debuffs/dps) and survivability (dps/mitigations/cc).
As the lines are now, there is no way how to properly balance them for various scenarios you encounter in game.
tl:dr Merge bowmaster and huntsman into one line. Tinker with 2 other lines to make hunters better suited to deal whatever the game throws at you.
NECRO post just to show how far back we have been looking for help
Vyxe said, "Cheer up it could be worse out here tonight." So we all cheered up, and wouldn't you know it.... things got worse!
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