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  1. #126
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kongas View Post
    They are not fads, they are related issues.
    I agree. But they are not being proposed as related issues. The problem with the hunter is a conceptual one.. We lack survivability. That is our problem. That is what needs to be hammered home. If we can live with aggro for a short while, then an aggro drop isn't such an issue.

    If we can open up with our full dps, and thus gain aggro, and thus live, then a couple underwhelming skills isn't an issue.

    If we can open up with our full dps, and thus gain aggro, and thus live, then we are THE top tier dps class, and our place in raids isn't an issue.

    If we can open up with our full dps, and thus gain aggro, and thus live, and thus are the top tier dps class again, which means our place in raids isn't an issue, then we are less concerned about our secondary role - TOF.

    Right now, we are a SOM era RK that cannot heal. That is our only issue. Its the root cause of our unattractiveness to groups and our farmability in pvp.

    Everyting else from split shot to aggro drops to revamping our LI legacies are all secondary. They made us into glass cannons, and we were never meant to be that. Fix this, and everything else becomes secondary.

  2. #127
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    They made us into glass cannons, and we were never meant to be that. Fix this, and everything else becomes secondary.
    True. I was much happier when my role as the hunter included being the guy who did the emergency pull on anything threatening the more vulnerable party. If I pulled something it wasn't going to kill me in two swipes and the tank knew if I pulled something he didn't have to worry about reaquiring aggro.

    We weren't meant to be glass cannons - which with the mitigation changes we are almost no matter what trade-off we make between AG/attack stats and Vitality/Morale.

    I think where some of us are coming from is accepting that Turbine are not going to back down on the medium/light armour mitigation nerfs or restore our passives. So we need some of the facilities that they have given other classes so generously.

    And this gets rightly tied into developer issues because we haven't been neglected, we've actively been given a couple of skills that are at best of extremely limited utility. If pride wasn't an issue Turbine would throw up their hands to this one and at the very least hot-fix boost them to some level of utility like making split shot crits reset RoA cooldowns and Heart Shot not alert the target and provide a longer 'boost' that applied to the whole party.

    But update after update the Hunter part of the patch/change notes is blank.

  3. #128
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kongas View Post
    True. I was much happier when my role as the hunter included being the guy who did the emergency pull on anything threatening the more vulnerable party. If I pulled something it wasn't going to kill me in two swipes and the tank knew if I pulled something he didn't have to worry about reaquiring aggro.

    We weren't meant to be glass cannons - which with the mitigation changes we are almost no matter what trade-off we make between AG/attack stats and Vitality/Morale.

    I think where some of us are coming from is accepting that Turbine are not going to back down on the medium/light armour mitigation nerfs or restore our passives. So we need some of the facilities that they have given other classes so generously.

    And this gets rightly tied into developer issues because we haven't been neglected, we've actively been given a couple of skills that are at best of extremely limited utility. If pride wasn't an issue Turbine would throw up their hands to this one and at the very least hot-fix boost them to some level of utility like making split shot crits reset RoA cooldowns and Heart Shot not alert the target and provide a longer 'boost' that applied to the whole party.

    But update after update the Hunter part of the patch/change notes is blank.
    See we are 100% in agreement. But I think what turbine struggles with is when the hunter community dilutes its message by breaking it down into its parts, fix this skill or that skill and then it gets lost. I mean, if I were at a planning meeting and I had to prioritize for the next update what should be on the table, would Split Shot really be up at the top of the list? Bright Campfire? Hunters Art?

    No, none of those skills are game changers or contributing directly to breaking the class. The hunter is neither appreciably better off if they were fixed, or worse off if not.

    But fixing hunter survivablity in some way... medium armor, buffing something like press onward, or adding some bubbles or something. Whatever. That fixes the class. Survivabilty, that to me should be the message from every hunter that wants the class fixed. Let turbine figure out the details, and those details could even be assigning a new dev, but leave all of that to turbine. We just need to keep hammering home survivabilty.

  4. #129
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    I agree. But they are not being proposed as related issues. The problem with the hunter is a conceptual one.. We lack survivability. That is our problem. That is what needs to be hammered home. If we can live with aggro for a short while, then an aggro drop isn't such an issue.

    If we can open up with our full dps, and thus gain aggro, and thus live, then a couple underwhelming skills isn't an issue.

    If we can open up with our full dps, and thus gain aggro, and thus live, then we are THE top tier dps class, and our place in raids isn't an issue.

    If we can open up with our full dps, and thus gain aggro, and thus live, and thus are the top tier dps class again, which means our place in raids isn't an issue, then we are less concerned about our secondary role - TOF.

    Right now, we are a SOM era RK that cannot heal. That is our only issue. Its the root cause of our unattractiveness to groups and our farmability in pvp.

    Everyting else from split shot to aggro drops to revamping our LI legacies are all secondary. They made us into glass cannons, and we were never meant to be that. Fix this, and everything else becomes secondary.
    I have to reply because this post is so wrong it is not funny.

    First of all - survivability. You absolutely can not say if they improve survivability hunters will be fine. First of all you have to differentiate real scenarios, like group play / solo pve / pvmp. In all three survivability is something completely different. When in group you are not supposed to get hit or pull aggro. Yes you occasionally get hit by some AoE or fight mechanics, but to deal with that requires different tools then what you preferably want in solo/pvmp.

    If we can open up with our full dps, and thus gain aggro, and thus live, then a couple underwhelming skills isn't an issue.
    Absolutely wrong. I mean, have you ever played in group? You always allow the tank at least few seconds before you start real dps.

    And your argument that aggro=top dps is another absolute misunderstanding of lotro game mechanics. There is so many variables between classes that influence threat list of each mob. Hunter can be on top of aggro with 1500 dps and 3000 points of threat, while champion with 2000 dps is conveniently sitting in the middle with 2000 points of threat. How you can claim that this means hunter is superior is beyond me.


    Next, for the love of god people, realize that with armor changes anything but tank is not supposed to last vs boss mobs. The times when hunter was tanking bosses in BG are gone.

    If we can open up with our full dps, and thus gain aggro, and thus live, then we are THE top tier dps class, and our place in raids isn't an issue.
    Oh great. So next time we take dps minstrel to raid, he will open with fantastic burst, get aggro, then live with bubles/insta heals while tank takes over. Minstrels are The top tier DPS class!!!!!!!!!!!!


    I don't know if you realize but giving hunters better threat management tools is one of the better ways how to improve the class. We have to deal with the fact that our damage will not be improved, or creeps will come crying to every thread in every forum section. That is just simple fact. It does not matter we can do 500 dps, if we can achieve 15k crits once a week = we are op. That is the mindset of pvmp players who if you like it or don't can cause quite an outrage on the forums.

    So how to increase our dps without increasing damage? Via threat management. Simple as that. There is no need to make hunter's skills to do 10-20% more damage. Just lower hunter threat generation by 10-20%. Result= more dps in pve, same dps in pvmp.
    Farewell.

  5. #130
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fin. View Post
    I have to reply because this post is so wrong it is not funny.

    First of all - survivability. You absolutely can not say if they improve survivability hunters will be fine. First of all you have to differentiate real scenarios, like group play / solo pve / pvmp. In all three survivability is something completely different. When in group you are not supposed to get hit or pull aggro. Yes you occasionally get hit by some AoE or fight mechanics, but to deal with that requires different tools then what you preferably want in solo/pvmp.



    Absolutely wrong. I mean, have you ever played in group? You always allow the tank at least few seconds before you start real dps.

    And your argument that aggro=top dps is another absolute misunderstanding of lotro game mechanics. There is so many variables between classes that influence threat list of each mob. Hunter can be on top of aggro with 1500 dps and 3000 points of threat, while champion with 2000 dps is conveniently sitting in the middle with 2000 points of threat. How you can claim that this means hunter is superior is beyond me.


    Next, for the love of god people, realize that with armor changes anything but tank is not supposed to last vs boss mobs. The times when hunter was tanking bosses in BG are gone.



    Oh great. So next time we take dps minstrel to raid, he will open with fantastic burst, get aggro, then live with bubles/insta heals while tank takes over. Minstrels are The top tier DPS class!!!!!!!!!!!!


    I don't know if you realize but giving hunters better threat management tools is one of the better ways how to improve the class. We have to deal with the fact that our damage will not be improved, or creeps will come crying to every thread in every forum section. That is just simple fact. It does not matter we can do 500 dps, if we can achieve 15k crits once a week = we are op. That is the mindset of pvmp players who if you like it or don't can cause quite an outrage on the forums.

    So how to increase our dps without increasing damage? Via threat management. Simple as that. There is no need to make hunter's skills to do 10-20% more damage. Just lower hunter threat generation by 10-20%. Result= more dps in pve, same dps in pvmp.
    See what I mean? 7 different arguments and 4 fist fights.

    I've read your posts. I know you are not one of those that believe the class is fine. Yet hear you are swinging at someone who is on your side. And for what?

    What are you trying to accomplish? Cause all you are doing, other than looking like an ahole, is contributing to diluting the waters. I could go down the path of arguing with you point for point when you are wrong, but its useless. I don't care to change your opinion. I want to change turbines.

  6. #131
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    See what I mean? 7 different arguments and 4 fist fights.

    I've read your posts. I know you are not one of those that believe the class is fine. Yet hear you are swinging at someone who is on your side. And for what?

    What are you trying to accomplish? Cause all you are doing, other than looking like an ahole, is contributing to diluting the waters. I could go down the path of arguing with you point for point when you are wrong, but its useless. I don't care to change your opinion. I want to change turbines.
    What i am trying to accomplish?

    I am trying to dismiss flawed/wrong arguments because any solutions that will be based on wrong assumptions will be bad.

    One has to understand the root of the problem. I firmly believe that a solution to problem is fixing the cause, not putting band-aid on symptoms.
    Farewell.

  7. #132
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fin. View Post
    What i am trying to accomplish?

    I am trying to dismiss flawed/wrong arguments because any solutions that will be based on wrong assumptions will be bad.

    One has to understand the root of the problem. I firmly believe that a solution to problem is fixing the cause, not putting band-aid on symptoms.
    No, you are trying to dismiss arguments YOU believe to be flawed or wrong because they are not of your own opinion. As I stated in my entry to this thread, that is EXACTLY why nothing gets done with this class.

    SPECIFICALLY, and caps for emphasis only, YOU are as much a part of the problem as ZC.

    An aggro drop IS survivability. You are still trying to do DPS and LIVE. Let Turbine figure out how best to maximize our survivability, and yes an aggro drop would be a nice way to go about it, though it wouldn't do jack for hunters being farmed in PVP and rookie hunters struggling in landscape and epic quest lines solo.

    So please, help. I know you're a very knowledgeable hunter and a skilled one. Don't contribute to further fracturing our community, help us instead.

  8. #133
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    I agree with the OP on some counts but not all.

    Agree on the aggro issue in group situations and combine that with our new found squishiness it needs attention. I duoed a 140k tree with a mincy and the mincy tanked it adn I couldn't !

    Agree on the trait lines. We have one trait line, which for me, is useless.

    I would like to see the trait lines developed for our main roles.
    1. quick burst, high dps, solo/small group pve
    2. sustained dps, icpr/focus over time good agro managemnt -pve instances 6-12
    3. solo/small group pve hunter - cc, survivability, melee, decent dps

    camp fire, press onward, strengthof the earth need upscaling and reworking to be functional. Why is press onward a legendary?

    Where I dont agree is..

    I'm able to solo the 70k trees, trolls and spiders. not easy but doable and a nice challenge. But then I'm old skool from SOA days and have learnt to kite, cc, and use the landscape to my advantage. If you just stand there you are going to die. If you cant solo these then try some new techniques. with bards arrow, ROT, crafted traps, low-cut, press onward and light oil you should be able to do these. We have never had so many trickes and heals in our armoury. I've even soloed 2 spiders at once, and can do them now without buffs and few healpots. I'd hate for these to become easy as imo they are the only solo challenge in the whole game for me. I miss the days when huge areas were like this and I had to work for my flakes etc. Its just about technique.

    thanks
    Last edited by Martigan; Mar 23 2012 at 04:34 PM.

  9. #134
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    The biggest problem with hunters is the hunter community. Ask 5 different hunters what is wrong with the class, and you'll get 7 different answers and 4 fist fights.

    I disagree. It just means that the hunter is really suffering and everyone is mad.


    There's just alot of smaller issues with the class that all combine to create a situation where hunters struggle when compared to other classes overall contributions.
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  10. #135
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr View Post
    I disagree. It just means that the hunter is really suffering and everyone is mad.


    There's just alot of smaller issues with the class that all combine to create a situation where hunters struggle when compared to other classes overall contributions.
    You disagree that we disagree.

    And then we wonder why ZC won't talk to us. lol.

  11. #136
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    If we can open up with our full dps, and thus gain aggro, and thus live, then a couple underwhelming skills isn't an issue.

    If we can open up with our full dps, and thus gain aggro, and thus live, then we are THE top tier dps class, and our place in raids isn't an issue.

    If we can open up with our full dps, and thus gain aggro, and thus live, and thus are the top tier dps class again, which means our place in raids isn't an issue, then we are less concerned about our secondary role - TOF.
    Somehow I don't think Turbine is going to be turning us into top-tier tanks lol. I'd much rather just not get aggro in the first place! Really I haven't noticed this survivability problem everyone's been talking about, yeah I take a lot of damage but not really any more than other medium/light armor classes. Of course my perspective doesn't include the moors, where I know survivability can be a pretty big issue for hunters. Aggro on the other hand...is my arch nemesis!
    Last edited by Sephollos; Mar 23 2012 at 06:51 PM.
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  12. #137
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sephollos View Post
    Somehow I don't think Turbine is going to be turning us into top-tier tanks lol. I'd much rather just not get aggro in the first place! Really I haven't noticed this survivability problem everyone's been talking about, yeah I take a lot of damage but not really any more than other medium/light armor classes. Of course my perspective doesn't include the moors, where I know survivability can be a pretty big issue for hunters. Aggro on the other hand...is my arch nemesis!
    When people talk about survivability, the main issue is with the current balance in the Ettenmoors, which is a Pv(M)P area.
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  13. #138

    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    I think the survivability is as much a gear issue as it is with the mits and lack of viable heals. The better my gear gets the better I survive. As it stands now I rarely die at least in skraids and instances. However, I still won't last 10 seconds against
    an on level elite with 30k plus health, they just hit way to hard each hit it seems takes 10-20% of health and we have no viable heal skills to use to get that back. Even if you use cc to buy time to heal they hit you again and even at full dps there isnt enough morale to survive long enough to kill it. I think the only chance we have is to not allow them to hit at all. The main reason this is a problem is that only the best gear has a good mix of agi and vitality. Most of the crafted, reward, or barter gear will have Agi + morale or just a little Vitality. I have had to search high and low to find the balance that I have now and still I have had to take way less agi than I could have, but to do that would sacrifice vitality and power regen and leave me a one hit wonder.
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  14. #139
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Harla View Post
    Kiting is not CC, as it demands the devotion of your attention in a way that proper cyclic CC does not.

    "A skilled hunter playing totheir CC can control and occupy 4 CC targets simultaniously and permanently, with actual CC. No other class can boast this."
    Please, inform us all of the proper cyclic CC skills that a Hunter can use to permanently keep four targets from moving at all.

  15. #140
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    I'm not a particularly high level or skilled hunter but i have noticed something strange while fighting trolls in the lone lands on both my hunter and my lore-master. while soloing trolls on my LM i was able to defeat them with almost full health and power left and all i had to do was resummon my pet and move on to the next one. my hunter on the other hand lost at least half of health and lots of power and (even with food) had a wait for regen where i was easily attacked by a wandering troll. I might get torn apart for how i did not use my skills, class, etc. to their full potential but with my limited play experience I think the hunter could use a little loving from the devs.

  16. #141
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Martigan View Post

    I'm able to solo the 70k trees, trolls and spiders. not easy but doable and a nice challenge. But then I'm old skool from SOA days and have learnt to kite, cc, and use the landscape to my advantage. If you just stand there you are going to die. If you cant solo these then try some new techniques. with bards arrow, ROT, crafted traps, low-cut, press onward and light oil you should be able to do these. We have never had so many trickes and heals in our armoury. I've even soloed 2 spiders at once, and can do them now without buffs and few healpots. I'd hate for these to become easy as imo they are the only solo challenge in the whole game for me. I miss the days when huge areas were like this and I had to work for my flakes etc. Its just about technique.

    thanks
    Well said.

    Though I would add that it's much more fun to run Limlight Gorge with a few friends.

  17. #142
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by gelleg View Post
    I think the survivability is as much a gear issue as it is with the mits and lack of viable heals. The better my gear gets the better I survive. As it stands now I rarely die at least in skraids and instances.
    Would be nice to have some (more?) gear with AG/VIT or AG/FAT mix. Throw in secondaries in different pieces of ICPR, Evade/Parry, ICMR, and straight morale/power - maybe even mitigation. Of course, you could even put physical offense and crit on a few, too. Mix them up a bit. Not more than one or two secondaries on any piece.

    Look at the new Vagabond set in Celebrant, for example. All AG. Very little parry/evade, no VIT. Almost nothing having to do with survivability, and everything to do with offense. That forces hunters interested in survivability to consider the Martyr set, which isn't a great fit, but might be necessary.

    Or we end up like some of us, having several "sets" of jewelry/gear for different situations that we have to store, and constantly swap them out. I'm getting tired of that, and would love to have a good solid set I could wear for almost (but not necessarily ALL) occasions.

    Frankly, the problem really stems from the "simplification" of the stats into AG-for-everything for hunters, and the difficulty in balancing that with other necessary secondary statistics from that one single stat. I think, from a game mechanics point of view, that this was a very bad mistake, and in conjunction with removing the level cap, has led us to where we are today. It's not just hunters having problems, you know.

  18. #143
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by jcmanda View Post
    Well said.

    Though I would add that it's much more fun to run Limlight Gorge with a few friends.
    hehe not when you have friends like mine :P

    Seriously I'm in a great kin that I do a lot of stuff with. I'm just enjoying that feeling I used to get back in the old days of fighting something big on my own in the landscape, even if it is just a small safari-park area, esp since they nerfed the rare elites. So much of the open world is zap zap these days.

  19. #144

    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    I think it is just the fact that we haven't had an update and that Hunters haven't been scaled in a few sections to the current times. Also we need someone to piece together the blue and yellow line to get a more focused second role that we can use. The second role is the main thing i would want because that would give us more choices instead of just changing the stance (improved by deeds) that we use to do damage.
    The end of an age has come and the wheel of time turns on. We will meet again when the wheel allows it.

  20. #145
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by k3nn3th View Post
    Please, inform us all of the proper cyclic CC skills that a Hunter can use to permanently keep four targets from moving at all.
    Since you ask...

    Cyclic CC is CC that means the creature is locked down or otherwise occupied permanently without requiring any more attention form the CCer than the reapplication of the CC (and any minor actions to facillitate that, such as burgs using glee daze, who need to re-aply a trick first), and and which, discounting misses or resists, is thereby "safe".

    So, A hunter has:

    Distracting shot perma-lock X2 (30 second daze, 15 second cooldown. Yes there is an induction by it actually works in our favour since, immediate cueing means hte induction takes place over the yellow immune recovery state, and the arrow lands the instnat that yellow recovery immunity is gone)

    One target for trapping, Trap lasts one minute, holds for thiry seconds once tripped, and has cooldown of 30 seconds. this allows for a complete trap-lock with the creture getting maybe a step or two in between at most.

    Bard's bouncing for the fourth. this one needs hte most explaining since there are aspects that people have completely ignored thus far with inane claims about why it's no good... firstly, Fears respond directionally to the applier of the fear, within a limited spectrum... Good use of positioning will keep a feared target away from the mix in a group. No kiting is required to reapply it when it expires, since the time the creture takes to move to you will genrally be the remainer of the cooldown. A slow tapped off as the fear dispells reasures this... and also more or less ensures that you will have its attention to be able to work its positoning.

    Two of these require some cattention to detial and some careful use of positioning yes, however, they require your attnetion only at the time of reapplication, thus cyclic CC.

    In that same sense, CE -would- count, if you could guarentee that the reapplication of CE would not break any of the existing roots... but it may, and usually does, at least one of the targets.
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  21. #146
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Harla View Post
    Since you ask...

    Cyclic CC is CC that means the creature is locked down or otherwise occupied permanently without requiring any more attention form the CCer than the reapplication of the CC (and any minor actions to facillitate that, such as burgs using glee daze, who need to re-aply a trick first), and and which, discounting misses or resists, is thereby "safe".

    So, A hunter has:

    Distracting shot perma-lock X2 (30 second daze, 15 second cooldown. Yes there is an induction by it actually works in our favour since, immediate cueing means hte induction takes place over the yellow immune recovery state, and the arrow lands the instnat that yellow recovery immunity is gone)
    Following tips on this forum I configured fully for crowd control and did a new second age bow for it with all the distraccting shot legacies. It makes the 70k trees a breeze but Distracting Shot mezzes do get resisted frequently and break after a few seconds. We cannot guarantee to keep 2 targets permanently locked down. Traps, even with strong traps class yellow equipped also fail.

    Fear seems more reliable but has a lot of drawbacks.

    Whether other classes CC is more reliable I don't know.

  22. #147
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    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sephollos View Post
    Somehow I don't think Turbine is going to be turning us into top-tier tanks lol.
    And there's the hyperbole I mentioned earlier as well. No one is talking about top tier tanking. But prior to ROI, if we did pull aggro it wasn't such a big deal and in fact, good hunters would intenionally pull aggro situationally.

    We complain about our lack of aggro skills now because we die if we get aggro. Which at the root is a survivability issue.

    Someone mentioned in the latest useless poll thread that they like where the hunters are now execpt that lastest 3 man instances are built to require a tank and a healter.

    NO. Its that hunters have no survivability. The echoes of the dead 3 mans, Northcotten and Stoneheight could be main tanked by a well geared hunter. Now because we've lost that option, we're pigeon holed into a glass cannon class and a glass cannon role.

    In the Ivar fight in OD, you could have a hunter tank one of the four mini-bosses. In DN on level, you could have hunters tank some nameless. A hunter in Durchest in BG could stand in as an meatshield to take the anti-aggro debuff. The sturdiness of hunters pre-ROI meant that you could run stuff with more unideal groups. Since they took away the passives that gave us survivability, and they nerfed medium armor, then like the Wardens, they need to give us a skill or two in the survivability realm that we can have in its place. Like a trait.

    Its not like we're talking about something that's game breaking. Look at the newly revamped trait RK's got that gave them morale, armor and crit protection. They're the true glass cannons of the game. Why did they get that? If they trait that and empathy, they have more armor than hunters!

  23. #148
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,876

    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    And there's the hyperbole I mentioned earlier as well. No one is talking about top tier tanking. But prior to ROI, if we did pull aggro it wasn't such a big deal and in fact, good hunters would intenionally pull aggro situationally.

    We complain about our lack of aggro skills now because we die if we get aggro. Which at the root is a survivability issue.
    And before anyone says it - no - we are not 'meant' to be glass cannons. It is what the recent changes have made us or an individual's view of what they should be that's all.

    And as a paying customer I really do resent investing time and money in one product only to have it changed into another. And I did not spend years building a glass cannon. I just had one swapped in on me one day.

    There's just no consistency - while hunters are having their melee survivability taken from them others are getting survivability thrown at them.

    IMHO the entire medium/light armour nerf has been a disaster, compounded by the removal of passives. Devs are just moving from (at least in the hunter case) classes that the player could push to limits to one that just fits into the tired old templates.

    Although having all this nice dps is fine for solo play it is not for grouping with non-elite tanks.

    I was pulling aggro in 3-4 man Limlight pugs with Endurance QS while traited 5 deep in yellow for crying out loud. It would have been less bother just to solo. Short of limiting myself to auto attacks there wasn't much else i could do to not pull. It can't be right that our main skill - awesome dps - cannot be used in most situations. Like I said - I'm not asking for an invisibility cloak - just more tools and possibilities.

    Survivability (we weren't tanks but we could see something going for the healer, pull it and deal with it as we didn't die in three punches) - something needs doing about it. We just have less tactical flexibility without it.
    Last edited by Kongas; Mar 26 2012 at 11:23 AM.

  24. #149
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    241

    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    I have the answer.

    A new gear item.

    Just one.

    Hammer Pants
    +92AG
    +32VIT
    +596Parry
    +596Evade
    +1200Finesse
    +1200PM
    +1200TM
    -∞ COOL
    "You can't touch this"

  25. #150
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    In the space between worlds, thinking, exploring, learning, dreaming, creating and always passing on
    Posts
    1,131

    Re: What is wrong with the hunter?... Why, everything and here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kongas View Post
    Following tips on this forum I configured fully for crowd control and did a new second age bow for it with all the distraccting shot legacies. It makes the 70k trees a breeze but Distracting Shot mezzes do get resisted frequently and break after a few seconds. We cannot guarantee to keep 2 targets permanently locked down. Traps, even with strong traps class yellow equipped also fail.

    Fear seems more reliable but has a lot of drawbacks.

    Whether other classes CC is more reliable I don't know.

    Your problem there is bleeds. If you're using CC, you are -NOT- using bleeds. That means no fire oil, no barbed arrow. If your distractnig Mez is breaking after a few seconds, a bleed is why.

    Not sure about how you're going with reistances and misses, but if I could not reliably lock three targets down completely, I would not have been able to solo the three-trolls, from the prospecting quest... and I did, and that's without a trapper bow, jsut traiting, so only one of those was locked with distracing shot... the second was traps and the kill target was bard-bounced.
    Rider, Fighter, Virgin, Lover; Watcher, Chaser, Bearer of Pain.
    Victim tormented, Abused and Broken; Rise from the ashes and Hunt once again.
    And Vengeance Be Thy Oath.

 

 
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