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  1. #1
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    More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    None are finalized, but here is the latest on mini changes on Bullroarer from Sapience:

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...-ONLY-3-6-2012

    Minstrel
    Melody of Battle, when used on others will now correctly add the full value of damage reflection and bonus parry rating.
    The Westernesse Lute no longer adds to the Healing Power Cost requirements.
    The Tier 7 flutes added with Isengard now correctly require Flute use.
    Anthem of War will now provide a standard 5% boost to fellowship members affected by the minstrel buff.
    The Minstrel self bubble from Story/Song of the Hammerhand has been reduced by a fair amount. It is still pretty darn good though.



    My take on the two big issues, the nerfs:

    Anthem of War - taking melee buff down from 10% to 5% - Not that big a deal IMHO. I know 5% damage from melee is a lot, but I rarely use AoW in the most stressful healing situations, I use it mostly for speeding up trash fights or in a limited number of "burn hot" situations like in Draigoch, in which melee is already OP relative to ranged DPS. If I'm able to throw in an extra anthem in a tough fight to add some dps, I feel AoP is a better choice anyway. AoW is more of a second, icing on the cake anthem to speed up easier fights, at least for me.

    Bubble reduction - I'm ok with this as well....I'm guessing its still a big enough bubble to get through heavy AOE damage in raids and give you time to throw a heal on someone that's critically low before taking care of yourself. Yes, you probably won't be able to stand up under focus fire as well in PvP, but that seems reasonable for any squishy.

    No one likes getting hit with a nerf, but realistically, if these are all the changes that come about with the update, I'm much better with this than with other potential nerfs that could have be dropped on us.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c000000237c76/signature.png]Megaren[/charsig]

  2. #2

    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    The AoW nerf is 10%, not 5%, isn't it? They also were gonna halve the legacy. I don't like it but whatever.
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  3. #3
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    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk View Post
    The AoW nerf is 10%, not 5%, isn't it? They also were gonna halve the legacy. I don't like it but whatever.
    The AoW buff to melee damage is dropping from +10% to +5%. I've read elsewhere that they would also be equalizing the legacies, but can't remember exactly where. So for a maxed out legacy on a buff book, yes, the AoW buff to melee would be dropping from +20% to +10%.

    IIRC, these buffs are applied to the base level of damage, not the top line with all other buffs and boosts included for melee classes, so the overall drop in melee dps while AoW is up would be significantly less than 10%.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c000000237c76/signature.png]Megaren[/charsig]

  4. #4
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    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    The bubble nerf is disappointing. It is down to 1,131 from 1,980 at level 75. The bubble already gets one-shot off of me more often than not, now it will be gone before we even get a heal off where the induction can't be interrupted. 800 morale doesn't seem like a lot, but compare it to all the other class bubbles in the game -- or our original bubble -- and this is a pittance that probably isn't worth the time it takes to cast it anymore.
    Narlinde, level 100 Minstrel, Rank 11, Member of Trucido ~ Windfola

  5. #5

    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudie-wan View Post
    The bubble nerf is disappointing. It is down to 1,131 from 1,980 at level 75. The bubble already gets one-shot off of me more often than not, now it will be gone before we even get a heal off where the induction can't be interrupted. 800 morale doesn't seem like a lot, but compare it to all the other class bubbles in the game -- or our original bubble -- and this is a pittance that probably isn't worth the time it takes to cast it anymore.
    You can't be interrupted for 30s after casting the bubble, even if it breaks.
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  6. #6
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    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk View Post
    You can't be interrupted for 30s after casting the bubble, even if it breaks.
    Really? OK, I take it back, the bubble nerf isn't as awful as I thought it was.
    Narlinde, level 100 Minstrel, Rank 11, Member of Trucido ~ Windfola

  7. #7
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    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    Quote Originally Posted by Megandir View Post
    IIRC, these buffs are applied to the base level of damage, not the top line with all other buffs and boosts included for melee classes, so the overall drop in melee dps while AoW is up would be significantly less than 10%.
    Yeah, and thats why AoP is going to be the go to anthem for dps now as attack duration doesn't suffer from that issue. It will be a no brainer for burgs and champs, and a wash for hunters vs AoW. One less swap book to make I guess.
    -Findaratos mini ~ Shock and Awe
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  8. #8

    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudie-wan View Post
    Really? OK, I take it back, the bubble nerf isn't as awful as I thought it was.
    It's probably an oversight but I'm not complaining. And if it weren't for that, I would be complaining.
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  9. #9
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    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    It is sad to see that the idea Orion wanted to implement (bubble that returns power if it's not broken) is now so useless that using CoS is better in ANY situation. Well, that's so things are I guess, but it seems that they are forcing us to use this ###### bubble just so we get the non-interrupt buff.

  10. #10
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    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    The bubble isn't that useful now. Why even nerf it? Are the superior champ and rk bubbles being nerfed as well?

    If the 'no stun' is an oversight that gets corrected, the drop in morale absorbed will just make it a skill not worth using, like it was before.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/012030000000a740c/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  11. #11

    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    so sad that a bunch of creeps griping and moaning about us being OP(even if we are) gets us hit by the nerf bat after the single best update the mini has had.

  12. #12

    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    I am not really bothered by the nerfed anthem of war but the damage bubble is like a kick in the you know what. That thing has saved me more times than i could remember, its always the first thing i hit when i get attacked so i have time to heal myself and others in danger although in some raids that gets one shotted away from me so i am left with nothing and now they want to nerf it? I don't really understand why they want to decrease it anyway, with the new Isengard instances they put in, the bubble is the only thing that is stopping the minis from getting killed in 3 hits. Just because the creeps complained in PvMP? PvMP is only a small part of the game that the majority of the players don't even do, so why does everyone have to suffer?

  13. #13
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    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    Quote Originally Posted by SleekPlatypus View Post
    I am not really bothered by the nerfed anthem of war but the damage bubble is like a kick in the you know what. That thing has saved me more times than i could remember, its always the first thing i hit when i get attacked so i have time to heal myself and others in danger although in some raids that gets one shotted away from me so i am left with nothing and now they want to nerf it? I don't really understand why they want to decrease it anyway, with the new Isengard instances they put in, the bubble is the only thing that is stopping the minis from getting killed in 3 hits. Just because the creeps complained in PvMP? PvMP is only a small part of the game that the majority of the players don't even do, so why does everyone have to suffer?
    Agreed. I don't PvP/PvMP in any MMO. Yet my playstyle is constantly under assault from those that do. The only reason I can see why Devs listen more to those who do PvP/PvMP is because it's their preferred playstyle too.

    I use bubble a lot, as a solo player. On the rare occasions I do group, I will use it on the tank, or first/second healer. No idea if that's the correct application, but it's always worked well.

    I'm a slow leveller and I clearly recall the difference it made when the bubble was improved with our update. It's a shame it's received a nerf now, but perhaps it will be reassessed before going live. I truly hope so.
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=#006400]Trulie Greenfinch[/COLOR] - [COLOR=#00ff00]Minstrel[/COLOR] - [COLOR=#daa520]Seaverse [/COLOR]- [COLOR=#ffd700]Laurelin
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  14. #14

    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    Quote Originally Posted by Corienne View Post
    The bubble isn't that useful now. Why even nerf it? Are the superior champ and rk bubbles being nerfed as well?

    If the 'no stun' is an oversight that gets corrected, the drop in morale absorbed will just make it a skill not worth using, like it was before.
    If i remember correctly RK bubbles got increased
    Ssupermann: I hate minis, they have satellite lazers

  15. #15
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    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    To me the bubble is a small issue in balancing, as such I cant say this is a pvmp nerf, if it was, thats not the issue and its laughable.

    Secondly, looking back, I think we all could see some downward adjustments, as long as they are no too harsh im ok with it. We were already a better choice as a end game healer based on pre roi items, not that rks couldnt heal, but if two people of near equal skill were on hand, minis are just better suited for the enviroment.

    At roi, we were giving a bubble, healing while dpsing, a plethora of group wide buffs that include armour/attack duration, icmr , direct damage, while still having in combat rez, dread removal, lower induction times for reactive healing, two group wide hots to deal with indirect aoe damages (the one thing the rks might have had on us at one time) , the ablilty to restore even MORE morale then ever quicker (anthem of third age, coda, bolster, sos, rts egads thats like mere seconds for 6-8k morale or more restored depending on crits.) We still had triumphant spirit for group wide , oh NO button and then Fellowships heart, for breathing room. While some of the nerfs are not fun, you can see overall , minstrels are still in a great place.

    However, the new RK healing, though will take me a bit to get used to, seems JUST as potent. Overall I wasnt all that displeased with rk healing at release to roi, the same issues were still involved, ablity to handle spike damage, no dread removal , no incombat rez. Well as of monday dread removal is fixed, rks have it, secondly the new changes look to make it that spike damage will not be quite as bad to handle. That just leaves the incombat rez, I dont think rks will get that, they do have a preventative measure, but honestly with so much clickty click induction based healing going on, you dont always foresee a tank that had 6k health , dying QUITE as quickly as it happens. So people do die. They also have a wide range of new buffs, I read the the bullroarer notes a couple times and I still havent got it all straightened out in my mind. Plus the warden one was even longer lol, and I have both toons to play through.

    Its nice to see turbine adjusting these, as premium classes, they should at least be on par with the rest of them. How in the world they though what they offered at roi was compensotory with these two I just dont know.

    My next plea, blue capstone should offer SoS as group wide HoT! Make it so!
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  16. #16

    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    Quote Originally Posted by Merilda View Post
    Agreed. I don't PvP/PvMP in any MMO. Yet my playstyle is constantly under assault from those that do. The only reason I can see why Devs listen more to those who do PvP/PvMP is because it's their preferred playstyle too.

    I use bubble a lot, as a solo player. On the rare occasions I do group, I will use it on the tank, or first/second healer. No idea if that's the correct application, but it's always worked well.

    I'm a slow leveller and I clearly recall the difference it made when the bubble was improved with our update. It's a shame it's received a nerf now, but perhaps it will be reassessed before going live. I truly hope so.
    I really wish people who don't frequent the Moors wouldn't act like they know what they are talking about. When you enter the Moors you get an effect that allows the Devs to alter skills specifically only when you are in the Moors. The skill can do two different things in PvE land and in PvP land. If the Devs wanted the change solely for PvP it would be solely for PvP. That would never happen though, b/c the Devs in this game don't care about PvP. There has never once in the history of lotro been a nerf or buff effected for the sake of PvP outside of DF (which only takes effect in PvPland), PvP has been historically a non priority.

    Whatever reason the bubble was nerfed, it wasn't b/c of PvP. I actually think I know why it was nerfed (given the amount it was reduced by) and I don't think it's a big deal. If I had to guess...they changed it so the bubble wasn't free anymore. As it is now it will help you take 1 hit when you rarely need to take a hit and then with just a sliver of bubble left you will gain the power back. I guess the devs don't like that.
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  17. #17
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    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I am going to keep this thread alive for a while and make adjustments as they potentially arise. The first changes, are negative ones, a little.

    • The Fellowship Bonus granted by Anthem of War will be reduced to +5% for each of the damage bonuses, Melee, Ranged and Tactical. This is being done to allow for other classes to have more room to provide bonuses to the fellowship. The bonus provided to the Minstrel will remain the same.
    • The Legacy Bonuses affecting each buff aspect of Anthem of War will also be reduced to half percentage steps allowing for an extra bonus of 5% to be given to each of Melee, Ranged and Tactical damages.
    So, are we going to see the positives one ever? And it wasn't only the anthem of war one, the bubble is neigh useless now.
    Gentlemen, we have been had.

  18. #18
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    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    Take a gander at this post from Orion. Cryptic...unsure of what healing changes are implied.

  19. #19

    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianrial View Post
    Take a gander at this post from Orion. Cryptic...unsure of what healing changes are implied.
    Dood; "Sooooo.... any word on the mini war speech nerf in the moors?"
    Orion; "it's not in there yet, neither is the restrictions to the Warden."

    I can only take that as one thing, that a nerf's going to be implemented. So far then;

    • Anthem of War Nerf
    • Bubble Nerf
    • Moors Warspeech Nerf implemented in the near future (unconfirmed)


    I'm not saying that the nerfs are appropriate, or uncalled for, or anything else with this statement, but that in summary Minstrels will be receiving 3 nerfs in the future patches. Hrmm.
    Last edited by Acidiun; Mar 08 2012 at 07:04 PM.

  20. #20

    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitcher0041 View Post
    so sad that a bunch of creeps griping and moaning about us being OP(even if we are) gets us hit by the nerf bat after the single best update the mini has had.
    It's not even about PvP. You can't honestly think that's why this is coming. The Mini since RoI to now is 10x more Overpowered than the Book 7 RK. You guys should be thankful they let it go on so long, they were a lot quicker to nerf RKs, even though after the nerf they were still pretty beast, just as Minis will still be come Monday.

    I've played every freep class since SoA. Had all classes maxed from then up until RoI, even doubles of some class. Without a doubt, the current Mini is by FAR the most overpowered any class has been in the history of this game.
    Last edited by deeman25845601; Mar 08 2012 at 09:06 PM.

  21. #21

    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    Quote Originally Posted by deeman25845601 View Post
    It's not even about PvP. You can't honestly think that's why this is coming. The Mini since RoI to now is 10x more Overpowered than the Book 7 RK. You guys should be thankful they let it go on so long, they were a lot quicker to nerf RKs, even though after the nerf they were still pretty beast, just as Minis will still be come Monday.

    I've played every freep class since SoA. Had all classes maxed from then up until RoI, even doubles of some class. Without a doubt, the current Mini is by FAR the most overpowered any class has been in the history of this game.
    No, it is about PvP. Nowhere i have seen people complain that minis are overpowered except in the moors. And if you think that minis are so powerful, why not nerf everything? Nerf out dps, nerf our heals and our ability to survive while healing some lms or hunters that think they can tank. Lets see how people like it when they require at least two minis in a raid or instance. Nerf minis so people require three healers in foundry and skirmish raids. Please nerf us because my 200 damage ballads are way too powerful for this game and the hunters and the light armor folks that get hit for half their hp by crits in instances can survive without our heals. If that will happen then everybody will probably make rks and then complain that that class is overpowered.

    Not don't get me wrong, you can nerf the bubble if you want, but 800 hp is a ridiculous amount. ROI and update 5 has proven to me that the devs do not play the game and have no clue what we require and do in those shiny new instances they proudly made. That 800 hp is the difference between a dead mini and a wipe and a successful battle. By all means take 200, 300 but when we are left with 1100 hp and we get hit for 1600 crit that bubble becomes useless.

    Edit: Another possibility would be to nerf it only in PvP which would satisfy everybody. You can make minis fight naked in the moors for all i care, i actually count on that bubble for my survival in normal gameplay.
    Last edited by SleekPlatypus; Mar 09 2012 at 02:12 AM.

  22. #22
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    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    If they nerf soloing there will be a lot of minstrels that never get leveled up to 85.

    Maybe they want fewer players. Or maybe the nerfs really WILL be Moors-specific.
    Aiwyn Bladesinger of Elendilmir
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  23. #23
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    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitcher0041 View Post
    so sad that a bunch of creeps griping and moaning about us being OP(even if we are) gets us hit by the nerf bat after the single best update the mini has had.
    Hey I'm sure that same strategy is what gets popular classes buffed too.
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  24. #24
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    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk View Post
    The AoW nerf is 10%, not 5%, isn't it? They also were gonna halve the legacy. I don't like it but whatever.
    I agree, overall with the buff book it is a 10% reduction on melee. Formerly the AoW, with a full buff book, could produce 20% to melee and 10% to ranged and tactical damages. It sounded like they were nerfing both the skill itself as well as the legacies that boosted it. <- If this truly is the case, I'd like to see some consolidation of the buff legacies as they are not as potent as they formerly were.
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  25. #25

    Re: More Update 6 previews from Bullroarer

    Grrrr...lol I love that bubble...that bubble is my friend... sigh....

    For real, this bubble nerf stinks. Personally I do use it in the moors when I get pounced by a warg for example. It's an extra 1500+ morale that keeps me alive while the local freeps take care of the warg who was trying to get a quick kill. With a bubble nerf, you might as well just use Chord of Salvation ASAP which still isn't as good as the bubble.

    </rage> So now we're getting a warspeech nerf as well seriously? Is it just me or is the mini being nerfed, and the RK being turned into a mini with better dps? Admittedly I don't know a lot about the RK, never played one, what I do know is an RK friend who talks about hitting 4000+ crits all the time. I always thought the point in having an RK and Mini were to have one class that was better dps and not quite as good healz, then another class with better healz and not quite as good dps. It's starting to look like more like:

    RK=Better DPS Almost as good Healz/
    Mini=good healz......sort of dps on low level instances...



    </end rage>

    Sigh...well I guess we'll see just how much the nerfs affect in-game. Though I'm honestly thinking of using my Burglar as main now

 

 
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