We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 33
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    121

    What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    - OR -

    Why I Keep Letting You Die, You Stupid, Stupid, Crybaby


    Introduction

    The old champion that insisted on tanking (even when no one wanted) him is gone, replaced by a sleek blender of death with more tricks, fewer weaknesses and just as much SHING-SHING as ever. However, there are still some misconceptions about how the champion works.

    To quote the great philosopher:
    Quote Originally Posted by Graalx2
    The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.
    We tanking champions want you to stop getting in the way of this, our greatest goal.

    Here are some things you should know so that we can get past this. Together.


    Threat Generation

    Unlike those silly shield toting classes (not you Captains and Minstrels, we lurves you,) Champions don't do a lot of screaming and beating on their shields to get their enemies' attention.

    We do a little screaming and a lot of smashing things. In other words, we generate threat in three main ways: Challenge, Reprisal, and Damage.

    • Challenge

      [skill]Challenge[/skill] is a long distance cry that some of use like to think of as Ranged Insult Concerning Your Mother. It only works on a single enemy and it is only temporary. For a few seconds, the mob must attack the champ, but after that it goes back to doing whatever it wants.

      That means that we can use it to get the big scary orc off of the healer, or to stop that crazy troll from pounding you into next week, but it won't last forever, so be prepared to be beat on if you don't let us generate some additional threat after the Challenge. That means that if you have a long distance root or stun don't use it when we use Challenge! That means you, you silly bathrobe wearing animal lover.
    • Reprisal

      [skill]Reprisal[/skill] is the second way of generating threat and it's a very simple one. Basically, hitting a champion is like punching a brick wall. Only, the brick wall has swords and a temper. So, when you hit the sword-wielding brick wall, you just hurt yourself, and that makes you even madder.

      Of course, if you get ready to hit the brick wall and a prissy elf with a bow sticks an arrow in your ear, you are probably going to go smash him to bits with your Brutal Hammer of Tree Lover Crushing instead of punching the whirling brick wall of pointy weapons. The moral of this story: let the brick wall get hit. It makes the scary things angry at the wall and not at you and your glowy rocks.
    • Damage

      DPS is still the best way to generate instant threat for a champion, because that's what all of our skills do. If we want to heal, we hit stuff. If we want to put up a morale shield, we hit stuff. If we want to get our weapons back, we hit stuff. Are you seeing a pattern?

      If we want to generate a lot of threat on more than one mob, can you guess what we do?

      Who said, "Use a Fist Gambit?" You are banned from class. Take your books and get out of here.

      The correct answer is SHING-SHING. That is always the answer because that is what makes us awesome and makes you a whiny crybaby that doesn't like us to break your mezzes.

      If you want us to get threat and save your little kitty-cat, then don't mezz or root things 25 meters from us where our whirling swords of aggressive diplomacy can't reach.
    • Rising Ire

      The fourth item on our three item list is our trademark threat transfer: [skill]Rising Ire[/skill]. We can only use it every once in a while and it won't save you if you continue to do the things that got you into trouble in the first place, but once we lock in the threat with it, you can probably be as stupid as you are wont. It can't be used to start a fight though, so hold up on the pew-pew unless you are comfortable with invasions of your personal space.


    Self-preservation

    Once upon a time, champions had only one job: kill things before they kill you. This was a good job, but it was sometimes difficult to find work.

    With the Champion Bailout of 2011, many champions were able to get grants to go back to school and learn new trades and job skills. This, of course, lead to a lot of complaining from the Equal Rights for Wargs lobbyists who also wanted a bailout but were told that they were too mangy and flea-ridden and that they didn't have enough SHING-SHING to make it in today's economy.

    I digress. These new shiny skills that don't go SHING-SHING are important for survival and you should know what they do so you can help keep us alive when we aren't killing things fast enough. (No, I don't have a reason why we aren't killing it faster. It's probably your fault. Stop trying to make me feel bad about that time when I gave away your precious little stone and tried to make you use that awesome axe. )

    • Self Heals

      [skill]Bracing Attack[/skill] - You can tell when we use this one because we get a medium heal (700 - 1000 morale or so) and we make this awesome lunging attack where we stab the enemy in the throat, or if it's really tall, then sometimes we stab them in the loincloth, which probably hurts more.

      Also, we get a short buff that increases our incoming healing. So send some more of that glowy green goodness our way.

      Please.

      We're sorry we said it was your fault that the dragon bugged out and we couldn't get our cloak.
    • Bubbles

      True Heroics and Sudden Defense - These are our new pretty pink bubble skills. They make us feel like princesses because our morale bar turns all pink. And there's nothing more terrifying than a pretty pink princess with Giant Axe of Murdering.

      Also they make you awesome too.

      [skill]True Heroics[/skill] gives a bonus to your critical rating (so you can stop telling us that we didn't need to use it when our health is high, thank you very much) gives back power, generates threat, and can even heal you (a little, but then that's not really our job, is it?)

      [skill]Sudden Defense[/skill] also makes our morale bar pink, and it gives us the ability to stop bullets with our mind. But if we want to use it a bunch, we have to hit stuff and get hit and things, so go back and read the part above so you're clear on that part.
    • Damage Reduction

      Hedge and Invincible - I know, [skill]Hedge[/skill] IS a stupid name for a skill. But if you think about it, it makes sense, because what job could champions do if they were fired from killing things? That's right. We WOULD be awesome topiary designers. You want that bush to look like an animal? SHING-SHING! Now it's a whale. EATING A SHIP. AND IT HAS SWORDS INSTEAD OF THOSE WEAK FINS! HEDGE IS AWESOME NOW, ISN'T IT!

      Also, Hedge gives us an armor bonus and gets us our weapons back when they get taken from us by a wolf. How exactly did he get it from us in the first place?! Who's been training these things?!?!

      Anyways, we use it a lot.

      [skill]Invincible[/skill] gives us damage reduction and we use it as much as we can, but keep healing us so that we know that you haven't forgotten how we saved you from those spiders that one time.
    • Emergency Heals

      Dire Need and Exalted Combatant - You are surprised that this list didn't end with Bracing Attack, huh. These two are our emergency heals.

      [skill]Dire Need[/skill] is just like it used to be, we exchange the mostly useless blue stuff for the sweet green stuff. (We'll get the blue stuff back pretty soon anyway.) Only now it is actually a good trade.

      Before, it was like this: Healer is out of power and I'm almost dead! I'll just use Dire Need! Ack, I'm still almost dead.

      Granted, mostly dead is still partly alive, but the new Dire Need makes us mostly alive, unless we don't have any power. Then we are all going to die.

      Unless, of course, Exalted Combatant saves us.

      [skill]Exalted Combatant[/skill] is the new bacon saving skill that most people don't know we have, because we don't even know that we have it. When we get low enough on morale, it fires off and we get more morale. Yay! It's like the morale fairy. Only the morale fairy only grants morale every couple of minutes, so don't think it's going to save us if aren't keeping us healed the rest of the time. The morale fairy doesn't abide laziness. Start strumming!
    • Healing Penalties

      And speaking of strumming, we don't have a healing penalty on our DPS stance now, so stop complaining about how hard it is to heal us when we go berzerk on those obviously evil baby bears. It's 30% easier to heal us and we do more DPS than ever.

      And if you're a tank and you think you're going to get aggro from us now, well, you have to get to them first. Who has the better run buff now, Samwise?


    DPS


    So, you may have noticed that we don't hit things quite as hard when we are tanking as we do when we're sblueing aggro from the tank. Gold star for you. What do you want, a pat on the head? Go clean up after that swamp thing you call a friend.

    • Traits

      Look at my traits. Now back to me. Now back at my traits. Yes, I do have Old Spice traited.

      Also, I don't have a lot of damage increasing traits AKA Red or Berzerker and I do have a lot of Blue or Martial Champion traits. What does this mean? Well, I can still do a lot of damage. Definitely more than one of those shield-pounders. But I probably can't generate enough threat through DPS alone to get those Brothers of Destruction off you when you use [skill]Heart Piercing Arrow of I Wonder What Threat Is[/skill].

      So go back to the top section and read it again, because you're going to die if we let those guys get to you and we're going to cheer them on.
    • Ardour

      If I'm tanking or off-tanking or soloing 5+ targets, I'm going to be [skill]Glory[/skill] (or [skill]Fervour[/skill]). If I'm not, I'm going to be in Fervour. That's it. Don't tell me to switch to [skill]Ardour[/skill] or I will end you. Ardour is for AoE when there are 5+ targets in every fight and another tank, and even that's debatable.
    • Morale

      Did I mention that we can still do a lot of damage?

      Well, we also want a lot of morale when we are tanking and guess which two stats are hard to maximize simultaneously. Who said "Will and Fate? " I thought I kicked you out. Get out of here.

      In order to get our morale high enough to take a few hits from the bigger baddies, we sacrifice might for vitality. But we still aren't going to have 20k health, because then SHING-SHING would be more like PEW-PEW and we don't like that sound.

      A champion with moderate morale and high mitigations can tank just as well as a shield lover and we can still lay down the deeps, which makes those long fights that require tons of morale short enough to manage with less. For 3-man and 6-man content, most champions should be able to tank just fine. For raids, choose wisely.

      Some champs can tank anything, some need to stick to our primary role: antagonizing lore masters.


    Conclusion
    So that's it. Whether you are a 'zerk champ or a silly arrow shooter, hopefully there was something for you to learn.

    In the end, this is what is important:

    • We tanking champions still love you, even if you're a thrice-cursed lore breaker or a bathrobe wearing hippie with a pocket full of sticky plants, or even a smelly dwarf with the hygiene of a warg.
    • We just want you to stop complaining when we are doing our job.
    • Our job is to keep the evil minions of Sauron and also some fairly aggressive looking elk off you and to help you kill them faster than if you brought along a javelin tosser instead of us.


    Together we can realize this goal and give everyone free ponies and global bonuses from holding the 'moors.

    But we can't do it IF YOU KEEP TRYING TO RUN AWAY WHEN I AM TRYING TO HIT THAT ORC, YOU IDIOT! COME BACK OVER HERE!

    FINE.

    I'M RETRAITING AND I'M GOING TO EBB IRE ONTO YOU EVERY TIME IT'S UP.
    Last edited by bibby042; Feb 18 2012 at 01:56 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, California
    Posts
    424

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    It's true, I probably need to get out more...

    ... but...

    ... that was the funniest forum post of all time.

    Nicely done, and have a pip of +rep!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0220400000001854b/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    [FONT=times new roman][COLOR=#FFFFE0]Known alts on Meneldor:[/COLOR][/FONT][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/304336/145241087982798155/"]Palandramir[/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 75 Hunter ~[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/304336/145241087982929667/"]Talagant[/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 75 Minstrel ~ [/FONT][/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/169749/145241087982745229/"][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]Chiton[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 75 Guardian[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#add8e6]
    [/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/304336/145241087982729798/"][COLOR=#daa520]Filbert[/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6]: 75 Minstrel[/COLOR] [COLOR=#add8e6]~[/COLOR][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/304336/145241087982808928/"] Dakkri[/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 71 Guardian ~ [/FONT][/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/304336/145241087983296677/"][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]Stammel[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 75 Captain
    [/FONT][/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/959916/145241087983521225/"][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]Elaichi[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 65 Loremaster ~ [/FONT][/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/959916/145241087983541171/"][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]Tribble[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 66 Warden ~ [/FONT][/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/959916/145241087983630184/"][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]Caper[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 64 Burglar [/FONT][/COLOR]

    [COLOR=#d3d3d3][SIZE=1]Gigabyte X58A-UD5 | Intel Core i7-950 | 12 GB Corsair Dominator DDR3 1600MHz | Gigabyte GTX 670 |[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=1] OCZ Vertex 2 120 GB (OS) | 3 x OCZ Vertex 2 40GB (LotRO) | Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty[/SIZE][/COLOR]

  3. #3

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    EPIC CONCLUSION! Loved every word of it.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2b22500000005f6d5/01006/signature.png]Gwaithollien[/charsig]

    Ninith WDN 75 | Gwaithollien CHM 75 | Cebra MIN 75 | Lylyth RK 68

  4. #4

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    +rep for extremely funny read lol. And wait til us RKs get the counter to ebbing ire so that you can't toss the mob to us for being lore breakers. We are wearing zombie down on this front.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,770

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    Hedge was originally the only skill Champions had to reduce threat, so the naming made sense then.

    Hedge: to avoid a rigid commitment by qualifying or modifying a position so as to permit withdrawal: He felt that he was speaking too boldly and began to hedge before they could contradict him.
    Somehow, we talked the mob out of being angry with us by hitting him a little more softly. Possibly on the rump.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,018

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    tl;dr
    we DPS better than you, and now we tank better. and it's all because we are champions.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    My own little world
    Posts
    208

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    The name "Champion" implies win, so yeah.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0c21401000004b78a/signature.png]Akban[/charsig]
    Aarow - The champion with charisma.
    Oridon - A rune keeper of the highest quality. Also known to be on the crazy side.
    Akban - "Prepare to die."

  8. #8

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    +reps

    10cha

  9. #9

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    I'm only a mid level champ - but I know what you mean I duo'ed with a hunter on some small fellowship quests in Evendim and eventually got him trained to NOT fire first (or 2nd but wait until 3rd at least) if he wanted to be standing at the end.

    + rep and funny

  10. #10

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    Thanks for a good laugh! +rep

    In addition, this is a very informative read for me as a champ who thinks about giving the blue line a shot.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    230

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    This is glorious, and should seriously be read by anyone who is not a champ. +rep
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/22219000000163cbf/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    Fyrexiel - guardian | Fyrcuna - burglar | Fyrion - minstrel | Fyrenze - captain | Fyrinthehole - hunter

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,368

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions


  13. #13

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    Ahhh, what a nice post Cheered me up definitely
    Galadhad R10 Champion - Laurelin

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    US
    Posts
    2,573

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    Well said +rep

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    503

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    I am trying desperately not to LOL in my cube at work, then they would know I am definitely not working! +rep

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,133

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    Quote Originally Posted by Azerog View Post
    I am trying desperately not to LOL in my cube at work, then they would know I am definitely not working! +rep
    try to laugh like a maniac (like muaahahahaha!), then they think everything is all right

  17. #17

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    Well written and pretty funny.
    [B]Magnarr [/B] - Lvl 85 Champion
    Leader, United Races (Vilya server)
    Cofounder and Leader, Vilya Alliance coalition of kinships
    [url]www.UnitedRaces.net[/url] [url]www.VilyaAlliance.com[/url]

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    452

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    Awesome ... OP gets as much rep as I can give, especially for this:

    Of course, if you get ready to hit the brick wall and a prissy elf with a bow sticks an arrow in your ear, you are probably going to go smash him to bits with your Brutal Hammer of Tree Lover Crushing instead of punching the whirling brick wall of pointy weapons.
    I LOLed hard ... and I wish I could have that Brutal Hammer of Tree Lover Crushing for those special occasions every champ knows oh so well
    You become a champion by fighting one more round.
    When things are tough, you fight one more round.
    James J. Corbett

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    916

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    I check my champ and some of the skills/traits you mention I dont have yet so I must assume they are higher level ones?

    It would be very helpful if you could recreate such an awesome post to adress those champs venturing into level 50's.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    318

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    Come lvl 50, you have all the skills a lvl 75 has, only that the 25 levels inbetween, you only get upgrades to existing skills. Just do the deeds in the class section and you should have them available to you. I needed a month until after hitting lvl 75 to get the last one.
    Caputo - Burglar | Drugar - Champ | Wislingard - Warden | Xenilinex - Hunter | Tonenas - RK | Rhichard - CAP

  21. #21

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    Awesomest forum post I've seen in weeks. I even logged in on my phone just so I could give you +rep. Thanks for being funny and informative at the same time.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/13213000000083e18/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  22. #22

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    ...Now I want that ship-eating sword-wielding whale hedge in my garden.
    Chickening Around the LotRO Webcomic

    .

  23. #23

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    Awesome read and hilarious, I may have to point a few of my kinnie's and friends i've tanked for this way, maybe they will finally get what I been trying to tell them LOL Wish I was this great at explaining


    Though granted I run dps mainly in anything large and tank in smaller stuff when needed or with people who don't mind. Trying get stats sorted out has been very difficult. Don't get into enough raids and have terrible rolls so getting decent drops is kinda meh...

    May need to find someone for good advise if any willing

    Other issue I have seen, people running around behind me. I can't peal anything off them if their behind me unless they just happen be melee range and I can maybe manage to accomplish it with raging blades... Which of course also takes a lot of fervour to pull off. Running around me in circles to... man annoying as hell i keep spinning hitting champ challenge or rising iar only to get 'opponent not in line of sight message' because by time it tries fires off their behind me again lol Maybe am doing something wrong? Any advise from you guys?

    Also notice times i've used rising iar seems like not really effective maybe I am doing something wrong with it i don;t know I;ve used it attempting to peel them off an rk or healer especially in cases where more than one has agroed to them before I could get them in range to agro them myself (more than 3-5 mobs I sometimes have this issue) only to have them not leave till the healer killed :/ I don;t want to be a horrible tank here lol and i;ve had people tell me I do well and some good runs but also some difficult ones to.

    Also anyone else notice delays with sudden defence?

    Sorry about the more serious-like post and questions.
    Last edited by Odailin; Feb 20 2012 at 09:41 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0d2160000000905ac/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

    Dwarf Hunter: Ruanan, Dwarrowdelf

  24. #24

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice.
    why won't the intertrons let me do what i want

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,573

    Re: What Every Class Should Know About Tanking Champions

    3/10. Would not read again.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0420800000009cc44/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

 

 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload