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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    Indianapolis Home of The Indy 500
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    1,411

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelleran View Post
    Seen this a few times in the forums, if someone is willing to give 10 Gold to another player for upkeep, why not save the step, and increase the prepaid period.

    1. Failure to pay upkeep results in the house being released back to the market.
    2. Allow players to prepay up to 6 months in advance. (or longer)
    3. Check box in the maintenance panel "Auto deduct housing upkeep from bank."

    The auto deduct method worked very well in another game I've played. It would also refund all upkeep funds if you lost your house due to lack of funds. You wouldn't want players losing all their money and their house. That's just down right mean.

    It would also show how many days you can rent for at the innkeeper. "You can pay upkeep for xxx days with the gold in hand and in the bank." In the case of LoTRO would show xxx days in the maintenance panel.
    I agree those are all workable options and I really like the auto deduct Idea......

  2. #27

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikivaup View Post
    I have taken extended periods away from the game and always eventually wander back. The one thing that would turn me permenately away from the game would be to have my house taken from me. My house is next to my Kin Hall and my other friends.
    But on the other hand, it's not very fair on new kinship members that they can't buy a house in the same neighbourhood as the kinship house because the houses were purchased long ago by people who no longer play. Some of the houses in the same neighbourhood as my kinship house are owned by former kinship members who haven't logged in for over three years. I assume that they never migrated from Codemasters to Turbine, so they couldn't come back now even if they wanted to, yet their houses are still unavailable for purchase.

  3. #28

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Since the CM players have moved to Turbine servers, there should be a separation:

    Eu Players:
    If CM players can not move any longer to the US servers, do a wipe of all those houses belonging to players that havent moved (and move toons details to a backup storage for that matter).


    for all players:

    Since F2P, there is no need to have a subscription to play and thus anyone can take 5 minutes to login and pay the house rent.

    Changes that can be made:
    - Add an option to payment rental to pay upkeep for more weeks than the 6 currently (or change it to months instead of weeks). Thus, someone can pay rent for many months in advance, and wont have to worry about it.
    - Once the rent paid period ends, the houses become inaccessible.
    - A grace of x months depending on type of player is given to keep the house. For example: if at anytime player was VIP 1 year allowed time, premium 9 months, f2p 6months.
    - Once the grace period ends, the house items go to escrow for unlimited time, the house becomes available for sale.


    Also, possibility to give the option to players to pay their house rent through their turbine web account, in case they dont have access to the game client. Can choose pay house upkeep, choose toon to pay from, pay gold for x period rent.
    Georgee LoreMaster
    Balrog's Bane - Gilrain - Member of Allies of Light

  4. #29

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    First - I'm 100% behind foreclosing on housing.

    Second - Turbine just ain't going to do it. <~~ note the period.

    See this thread
    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ose-on-housing

    This was when Bree housing on Brandywine really and truly was full up. All 250 neighborhoods had been spawned. I and others complained and whined. Then we whined and complained...

    Then we did it some more. Turbine had the perfect opportunity to change their policy. Hec even the nay sayers where admitting they (turbine) needed to start evicting people. The only question was under what conditions.

    Instead Turbine re wrote the code - after like 8 months - which I'm sure was not easy to allow more then 250 neighborhoods to spawn. They spawn three new neighborhoods at a time. The problem or catch is that all the houses have to be gone from the previous three before new ones spawn.

    So if there is a special house you want you may have to wait a long time and check every day.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    4

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    I think houses should become free again if someone hasn't paid their upkeep for x amount of weeks perhaps 6-8 weeks. If you decide not to play the game for an extended period of time and your house gets sold to someone else, thats your fault, you weren't playing the game so you didn't need the house, someone else was playing and did need a house. Gladden has suddenly had a boom in new players and the small houses are dissapearing fast. I was fortunate to get my deluxe home before the sudden boom, but when I bought my house there were 3 deluxe homes and 2 small homes available in my neighbour as of last night there is now 0 homes available in my neighbourhood and other neighbourhoods are filling up fast.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The Shire Homesteads
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    273

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Prior to FTP I could understand not foreclosing on homes. Now any player can play a few days or weeks, buy a home and never return. There are homes in our kinships neighborhood that have been abandoned for over 3 years, and these were VIP players at one time.

    I'm all for saving the homes of players who have to be gone for long periods of time, but there are solutions. Many good ones have been given previously in this and other threads. Something needs to be done to open up these homes for active players who would love to be close to the kin house, or to their friends or family. It can be done without unduly penalizing a player's ability to pick up their gameplay at some time in the future. The time has come.

  7. #32

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    I've wanted to buy a deluxe elvish house, but every single one is sold.
    "Do Not Meddle In The Affairs Of Dragons, For You Are Crunchy And Taste Good With Ketchup."
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000003f950f/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  8. #33

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Even Bilbo found people going through his house to sell it after being gone for a year....


    Just sayin'

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Indianapolis Home of The Indy 500
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    1,411

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pathwarden View Post
    Even Bilbo found people going through his house to sell it after being gone for a year....


    Just sayin'
    Chuckles Good Point so the Lore Supports Limiting to a Year.......

  10. #35

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Why not just increase the limit of neighborhoods? That seems like the easiest fix all around. No having to tick off people taking a break from the game, no reason to have to devote extra dev time for larger neighborhoods, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripn View Post
    But on the other hand, it's not very fair on new kinship members that they can't buy a house in the same neighbourhood as the kinship house because the houses were purchased long ago by people who no longer play. Some of the houses in the same neighbourhood as my kinship house are owned by former kinship members who haven't logged in for over three years. I assume that they never migrated from Codemasters to Turbine, so they couldn't come back now even if they wanted to, yet their houses are still unavailable for purchase.
    Not only is it impossible for such a thing to work - unless you're going to limit kin sizes to the number of houses in a neighborhood (divided by the number of kin houses); but even when I joined (Jul 2008), I wasn't able to get a house in the same neighborhood as my kin's house. Pretty much the only people that are going to get houses in the same neighborhood as their kin are those that joined the kin when it was founded. Everybody else just has to pick a different neighborhood.
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  11. #36
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    Sep 2010
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    2,301

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pathwarden View Post
    Even Bilbo found people going through his house to sell it after being gone for a year....
    Perfect point! +Rep to you
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/1321300000000704a/01002/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  12. #37

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Utopia View Post
    Not only is it impossible for such a thing to work - unless you're going to limit kin sizes to the number of houses in a neighborhood (divided by the number of kin houses); but even when I joined (Jul 2008), I wasn't able to get a house in the same neighborhood as my kin's house. Pretty much the only people that are going to get houses in the same neighborhood as their kin are those that joined the kin when it was founded. Everybody else just has to pick a different neighborhood.
    I'm not saying that everyone should be able to buy a house in the same neighbourhood as their kinship house. I'm saying it's unreasonable that people should be able to hold on to houses indefinitely even when they haven't logged in for years. There are former kin members who own houses in the same neighbourhood as our kinship house who haven't logged in since 2008, and who, as far as I know, failed to migrate from Codemasters to Turbine, so couldn't come back now even if they wanted to.

  13. #38

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Yes, the EU migration created a lot of these lost souls.

    The players, who didnt care anymore, didnt know, could not log in in time to do migrations, or knew and could but still missed migration.

    Their characters are on the servers, newer to be accessed. Their houses are there, forever closed and unavailable. Since their accountinfo newer got transfered and newer ever will.

    Same for Us server population, for players who did play once but stopped now for various reasons.

    Its not that hard on less populated, newer servers, but the oldest ones have problem here.

    Simplest way would be just add 100+ more of racial neighbourhoods each and hope that last for another year or two.

    Or do some release of locked houses back into trading pool.
    .
    Thank you, Turbine, for listening and giving us an opt-out of FE! Good work!

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    1,721

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Quote Originally Posted by Edhoth View Post
    I think houses should become free again if someone hasn't paid their upkeep for x amount of weeks perhaps 6-8 weeks. If you decide not to play the game for an extended period of time and your house gets sold to someone else, thats your fault, you weren't playing the game so you didn't need the house, someone else was playing and did need a house. Gladden has suddenly had a boom in new players and the small houses are dissapearing fast. I was fortunate to get my deluxe home before the sudden boom, but when I bought my house there were 3 deluxe homes and 2 small homes available in my neighbour as of last night there is now 0 homes available in my neighbourhood and other neighbourhoods are filling up fast.
    When this was the policy, there were a lot of complaints from military personnel who would be deployed for more than the time alloted and could not play or pay maintenance. Serving the country in an area where play was not possible hardly qualifies as "your fault". I believe this was one of the things that impelled Turbine to change the policy.

  15. #40

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripn View Post
    I'm not saying that everyone should be able to buy a house in the same neighbourhood as their kinship house. I'm saying it's unreasonable that people should be able to hold on to houses indefinitely even when they haven't logged in for years. There are former kin members who own houses in the same neighbourhood as our kinship house who haven't logged in since 2008, and who, as far as I know, failed to migrate from Codemasters to Turbine, so couldn't come back now even if they wanted to.
    It's a touchy situation no matter how you look at it. One one hand, MMO players tend to expect that if they leave a game, their character and everything he/she owns will be there the way they left it if they come back. On the other, a house that isn't being used doesn't serve a purpose.

    Regardless, length of time away shouldn't be the deciding factor, because it's just about as likely as that person isn't going to come back, as it is for whoever gets that house instead will continue playing. I mean it's one thing to come back after 4 years to find your house gone; but then to see it locked due to failure to pay upkeep, because the player who has it now, isn't playing right now?

    Even with all that kept in mind, there's really no big advantage of having your house in the same neighborhood as your kin. Simply having it in the same racial housing area is just about as convenient - as you just have to zone out, and zone back in. Other than the decorations, the only real purpose to any housing is for the storage - and as far as any other storage goes, it's the most inconvenient at that. So unless Turbine decides to make the social aspect or gameplay convenience aspect of housing actually relevant, then they might as well just add more neighborhoods.
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  16. #41

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    I take exception to the last post. There are definite advantages to having your house in the same neighborhood as your kinship house. My kin has 10 active players, and a few that play occasionally. We just moved to a new neighborhood so that newer members could have houses with us. We control 2 kinship houses, 10 deluxe houses and 8 of the standard houses in this neighborhood. We use most of the houses for community property items, and to save on mailing costs. I am the kin cook, and have a house for the kin farmer to put ingredients for me, as they take way too much bank space and when he grows 1000 barley for me + other items, it gets pricey mailing. One house right now is designated as reputation items for anyone who needs them. When someone new joins the kin we will be able to offer them one of the spare houses. We also use the neighborhood as a place to meet up so our hunter can group port us to an area we are questing together. And it is nice to just bump into each other now and then.

    Moving neighborhoods was tricky and took some planning. We had to abandon the kinship house, 5 deluxe houses and 4 standard houses we owned in our old neighborhood and time the spawning of a new neighborhood to when everyone was online to buy the new houses. It cost us quite a bit of GP as well, but we all feel it was definitely worth it to be able to live together. Thankfully our server still has neighborhoods available.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Utopia View Post
    Why not just increase the limit of neighborhoods? That seems like the easiest fix all around. No having to tick off people taking a break from the game, no reason to have to devote extra dev time for larger neighborhoods, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatter_of_Bree View Post
    Simplest way would be just add 100+ more of racial neighbourhoods each and hope that last for another year or two.
    You're both right, this would be the simplest, and probably what they already have planned.

    What it doesn't do is anything to help revive old neighborhoods that are filled with mostly abandoned houses. Aside from the very real convenience factor of having homes together with friends and kin in a neighborhood, the older neighborhoods are eerily silent. We regularly check the homes in our neighborhood to see if anyone has paid the upkeep, but alas, no, nobody "lives here" but a few of us who managed to be around when the neighborhood opened up.

    If abandoned homes were put back up for sale, with a token to the previous owners for a similar home in a new neighborhood should they return, AND a short-term offering made to long-time kinships in those neighborhoods for "first right of purchase" for said homes, it would be A Very Good Thing(tm). At the same time we'd advocate a way to pay-forward for homes for as long as a player wants to pay forward (up to two years?) in the event they're being stationed elsewhere.

    There are options other than just spawning more neighborhoods to have yet more empty, lifeless, places to live. Options that don't penalize unnecessarily, yet also breathe some life back into neighborhoods.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    10,510

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pathwarden View Post
    Even Bilbo found people going through his house to sell it after being gone for a year....


    Just sayin'
    While true--and a very good point--when he *did* show up, no one claimed that the house wasn't his any more.

    --W. H. Heydt

    Old Used Programmer

  19. #44

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pathwarden View Post
    Even Bilbo found people going through his house to sell it after being gone for a year....

    Just sayin'
    Absolutely! Does anyone really expect people to come back and claim their houses after a year? Would they really care if they had to buy a new house after that long, especially since unlocking the house would cost just as much?

    A humorous post on the subject can be found here.


    I think the best solution would be to make the shared areas non-instanced and instead instance each yard. Housing could be a vibrant public area and everyone could buy the exact house that they want.
    "For them to perceive the advantage of defeating the enemy, they must also have their rewards." ~Sun Tzu

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    2,855

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Turbine needs to add Kin neighborhoods.


    In the absence of that, you can't kick people out. coming back to the game only to find out you lost your house now belongs to someone else isn't exactly compelling. Having to grind all that cash to unlock them is more than likely annoying enough. Turbine should do everything it can to embrace returning subscribers. You can't say "the store is good! subscriptions are good! but kick these lowlives out, they're lowering my property values! /beercan"


    --

    And in the absence of better "pay forward" programming (which has been suggested before, and for a while, if I recall):

    Why not a "no lockout" feature available in the store. Yes, it's outright gold-selling RL$ for in-game$, but those in-game $ are already spent, and it's not-convertible. w/ all the other things in the store, you'd think this would be a slam-dunk. It's a pain in the hobbit bottom paying for all those damn things, and nothing says "I'd rather pay than avoid that grind" than the Turbine Store.
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  21. #46
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    232

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Some people need to stop thinking with their bleeding hearts and use their brains.

    These houses have been abandoned for 12 months to over 3 years. These are not cases of someone dropping out of the game for a few months then coming back. These are people who left, with plenty of time to arrange something, and have not been seen or heard from in over a year. If they have not come back by now, then they are not coming back and probably have completely forgotten about the house. At that point it makes no sense to let a resource (which we now know to be finite) go to waste just because someone with a mothering complex can't handle the their fantasy of someone in tears over a virtual house they forgot about. It's the same situation when people give all their stuff away or convert it into currency they sell to a RMT before moving games only to come back later. When it's that people just laugh at the fool - when it's a house suddenly a vocal few get teary eyed and start demanding that those people be given special consideration.

    What makes it really ironic is that the "service people might lose stuff when deployed!" is about as false an excuse as you're going to get. Any sort of long deployment doesn't come at the drop of a hat. It takes time to arrange logistics, organize transport, and the other thousands of things that have to be done to move a unit larger than an infantry platoon. During that time the unit gets a warning to prepare for deployment. That warning is usually several weeks in advance which is ample time to fire off a dozen or more in-game mails to ones friends and kin asking for someone to take care of their house while they're gone. And given just how social most military folk are it's highly unlikely that several people won't step up to the plate to do so. In fact one could say that Turbine anticipated this entire issue when they allowed permissions to be set that range from a "Beware of Player Eating Troll" to "the same as the owner" for other characters outside the owning account. The problem is that Turbine didn't anticipate that other players would make someone's not reading what the different permissions do and realizing an apparent use (akin to giving a friend ones apartment keys while on vacation) into some huge "patriotic issue" so they could feel better about themselves.

  22. #47
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    Mar 2007
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    10,510

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilTreerat View Post
    These houses have been abandoned for 12 months to over 3 years. These are not cases of someone dropping out of the game for a few months then coming back. These are people who left, with plenty of time to arrange something, and have not been seen or heard from in over a year. If they have not come back by now, then they are not coming back and probably have completely forgotten about the house.
    Some people do return after surprisingly long absences. The problem with what you say is that, Turbine has effectively made a promise: no "foreclosure". If someone *does* come back and the rules were changed in the mean time, he's going to be annoyed, and rightly so.

    Still, many have argued in favor of freeing up houses. The main debates have not been over doing so, but how long to wait and what notification--if any--Turbine should give.

    For a benchmark on how long to wait, suppose Turbine picks the US average from failing to make payments until foreclosure actually takes place. Last time I looked, that was about 18 months. Would you be willing to accept that time frame? If not, why not?

    At that point it makes no sense to let a resource (which we now know to be finite) go to waste...
    I don't know about you, but some of us have known all along that houses are a finite resource. Turbine originally stated that the maximum was 250 neighborhoods in each area. From some data presented in this thread, that appears to have been increased to 325 in at least one case. Still...even without Turbine's statement, I could have told you there were a finitie number, since the hardware that runs LoTRO is finite.

    What makes it really ironic is that the "service people might lose stuff when deployed!" is about as false an excuse as you're going to get.
    It was a genuine concern at the time. Deployments were being announced on short notice. Perhaps you don't recall events of 5 years ago.

    --W. H. Heydt

    Old Used Programmer

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    1,275

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    I think one year of no payments (so, 58 weeks total) is enough time. I wouldn't argue against 32 weeks - 6 months plus 6 weeks - but will concede a year. As for notice, it would be included in the dev notes changes for whatever Update the change would occur in. After that time, the escrow account includes a token allowing you to trade for a house. I'd think the number returning after 6 months or a year would be rather small. Having to find a new house would be the 'penalty' for not keeping your payments up-to-date. If someone really cared they could have someone else pay for them very easily.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Westfalia, Germany
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    224

    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    I think at least the houses that belong to unmigrated accounts should be freed. There are a lot of houses blocked on the European servers and it was stated, that migration is no longer possible.
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  25. #50
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    Jun 2011
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    Re: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    Some people do return after surprisingly long absences. The problem with what you say is that, Turbine has effectively made a promise: no "foreclosure". If someone *does* come back and the rules were changed in the mean time, he's going to be annoyed, and rightly so.
    Annoyance is a part of life.
    Turbine have to decide whom to annoy - their active and loyal playerbase or some imaginery base of inactive players who may eventually sometime in out of the reach future decide to login in the game. Surprisingly (or not) Turbine decided to annoy those who actually do play their game.


    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    I don't know about you, but some of us have known all along that houses are a finite resource. Turbine originally stated that the maximum was 250 neighborhoods in each area. From some data presented in this thread, that appears to have been increased to 325 in at least one case. Still...even without Turbine's statement, I could have told you there were a finitie number, since the hardware that runs LoTRO is finite.
    And thus you have to distribute finite resources between active and inactive customers. Hard choice indeed...
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