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  1. #176

    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Ok the realy big issue is the fights lasting 10sec. or less. some of the best fights ive had are some lasting over 1 minute a few 3 or 4. now days i cant use half my skills because it ends to fast. best idea is to triple creep crit defences. some creeps are very well balnced atm BAs WL and Defierls are perfect atm . wargs spiders need survivable skills and fix the dang worthless skills like tendon shred.and 30 sec CD on SS. reavers are tough but need to be high ranked tho thats harsh, we dont need more dps both sides need less!! make the fights use skill like the old days.

  2. #177
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    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Quote Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg View Post
    Yes my DPS build for Warg is around 9K....One RS with a crit = 1/2 of 9K gone

    Scared of nerf?

    "Hey dont look at how ridiculously OP ISB is...look over there at Burgs armor set bonus !"

    LOL

    The day is coming "Champion" when either your ISB will get nerfed...or Creeps will get a comparable skill

    Then the real QQ will begin

    Update 6:
    Champion changes :
    ISB cooldown has been raised to 30 min
    Even if champs get their ISB nerfed or creeps get a similar skill (probably for reavers), you'll still spend your days making thread after thread, whining about how OP freeps are everytime you get killed. The sad thing is, you won't ever realise that it's not the freeps being OP that keeps causing you to fail.

  3. #178
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    Thumbs up Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    Even if champs get their ISB nerfed or creeps get a similar skill (probably for reavers), you'll still spend your days making thread after thread, whining about how OP freeps are everytime you get killed. The sad thing is, you won't ever realise that it's not the freeps being OP that keeps causing you to fail.

    Good points

    Now that I think about it, Creeps and Freeps are pretty close to balance

    Its all player skill and nothing to do with any so-called OP skills

    I stand corrected

  4. #179
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    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Quote Originally Posted by haroldhnicholos View Post
    Ok the realy big issue is the fights lasting 10sec. or less. some of the best fights ive had are some lasting over 1 minute a few 3 or 4. now days i cant use half my skills because it ends to fast. best idea is to triple creep crit defences. some creeps are very well balnced atm BAs WL and Defierls are perfect atm . wargs spiders need survivable skills and fix the dang worthless skills like tendon shred.and 30 sec CD on SS. reavers are tough but need to be high ranked tho thats harsh, we dont need more dps both sides need less!! make the fights use skill like the old days.
    i agree with everything you said except the part about wargs lacking survivability, 80% of the time i engage a warg, he'll disappear the second it looks bad for him, there's a good reason why people like thelegendarygoat have 2k ratings.
    also, some pathetic r2 warg bought all his skills and almost soloed me today, THAT SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN! he was hitting me harder than a r7 reaver. and no, i'm not a fail rk, but i've NEVER seen a r2 hit so hard in my life, and he felt confidant enough to keep trying too, i had to do all sorts of things just to stay alive, including elf parry, potting, making sure i had do not fall to wound and flame up at all times. he got me down to 80 health the first time from 6700, and i had to heal myself straight away or i woulda died to the bleeds on me. i've faced r8 wargs that were easier. he was using store brands, shadow howler fleabitten and all sorts of garbage.

    they need to remove the ability to buy skills straight away, let people keep what they've already bought, fine, but otherwise it destroys the balance in the moors, of lowbies being weaker and high creeps being stronger, which has already been warped by being allowed to advance through early ranks via quests alone.


    but yes, longer fights would be nice,

    and spiders need absolute love. x 1 million
    Belolth Hisses with fury as venom drips from his maw, scorching the earth, "come manling, my brood hungers!"

  5. #180
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    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    Your warg has 9738 morale, does it? With 1 button 1/2 of it's gone? Try 3 buttons minimum and a getting lucky on it being a devstate.
    Oh my. Three buttons you say?

    Has anyone told Orion of this? Three buttons is a lot to have to press in a fight.

  6. #181
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    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
    Oh my. Three buttons you say?

    Has anyone told Orion of this? Three buttons is a lot to have to press in a fight.
    Agreed

    Needs to be reduced to 2 at least

    If I cant destroy my opponent in PVP with 1-2 buttons then I will quit this game and go back to Unreal Tournament Insta-Gib

  7. #182
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    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Quote Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg View Post
    Good points

    Now that I think about it, Creeps and Freeps are pretty close to balance

    Its all player skill and nothing to do with any so-called OP skills

    I stand corrected
    Everything would be about skill if nobody would use such skills, at least not in 1v1.

    A bit tired of 1v1s where the match seems a close call but it seems i'm winning, still then the champ is like "f*ck this, i won't lose to him", and he pops the greater bubble on a few hundreds of morale. A bit tired of 1v1s where the minstrel is on dangerously low morale, i'm happy and all that i can finally beat a mini, then he quickly fears me and fully heals back. Ridiculous to see BAs pop Moving Target and/or uruk heal in 1v1s against a hunter too.

    As far as I can tell, there is a relative balance between well-geared champs without bubbles/dire need, and r7+ reavers. Champ beats me without using these, I commend them for their skill. Champ who cannot resist the overcoming temptation to use these in a fight they're losing, well I accept it-have it your way. Not really impressed about skills that way. Mind you, unskilled, and possibly a bit undergeared champs can still be beaten, despite bubbles and all.

    And I've realised the sarcasm btw
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2921e0000000a4ef4/signature.png]Havocz[/charsig]
    [I]Casual RPer[/I]
    Havocz lvl65 LM, Dalin lvl48 GRD, Berenir lvl32 CPT - [B]members of the same fellowship[/B]
    Narzgash r8 Reaver, Ternakh r6 BA, Lugnakh r4 Warg, Ulburz r4 WL - [B]the creeps who always remain True[/B]
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    [I]Never on the dark side. Sauron sucks. Just many bad ones appear among the supposed 'good ones'. So experiencing another aspect of the game.
    Respect your opponent, and you won't regret anything.[/I]

  8. #183
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    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Quote Originally Posted by haroldhnicholos View Post
    Ok the realy big issue is the fights lasting 10sec. or less. some of the best fights ive had are some lasting over 1 minute a few 3 or 4. now days i cant use half my skills because it ends to fast. best idea is to triple creep crit defences. some creeps are very well balnced atm BAs WL and Defierls are perfect atm . wargs spiders need survivable skills and fix the dang worthless skills like tendon shred.and 30 sec CD on SS. reavers are tough but need to be high ranked tho thats harsh, we dont need more dps both sides need less!! make the fights use skill like the old days.
    Agreed. Fights shouldn't conclude in a few seconds. Longer fights=more fun.

    However you can actually have long fights. Roll a WL, rank it up, and 1v1 with a shield warden. That will be funny

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2921e0000000a4ef4/signature.png]Havocz[/charsig]
    [I]Casual RPer[/I]
    Havocz lvl65 LM, Dalin lvl48 GRD, Berenir lvl32 CPT - [B]members of the same fellowship[/B]
    Narzgash r8 Reaver, Ternakh r6 BA, Lugnakh r4 Warg, Ulburz r4 WL - [B]the creeps who always remain True[/B]
    [U]Snowbourn[/U]
    --
    [I]Never on the dark side. Sauron sucks. Just many bad ones appear among the supposed 'good ones'. So experiencing another aspect of the game.
    Respect your opponent, and you won't regret anything.[/I]

  9. #184
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    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    8k morale champ vs 15k morale reaver. Champ does 5k dev. That's a 33% morale hit. To meet that, the reaver would have to do around 2.6k on a devastating hit.

    6k morale burger vs 12k morale warg. Burg does a 2k crit. 16% morale hit. Warg would need to do around 1k crit to meet that.

    7k morale hunter vs 13k morale BA. Hunter does a 4k crit. 30% hit. BA needs to do 2.1k crit to meet that.


    You need to factor in a lot of differences (e.g. resistances, mitigations, DPS) but if you want to actually compare crits, just go for what morale % it is. More often than not, you'll find that the massive freep crit isn't actually as big in terms of percentage.
    Ok from the looks of it you are comparing 1v1s in a raid zone, but I still have a few things to say at least about the champ v reaver. I go out to the moors on my champ in a high crit build with good mitigations. My dev % is about 7. Creep also have slight dev avoidance. So clearly not going to see many dev remorseless strikes from a champ. Someone else mentioned bubbles but a champ shouldn't being using a bubble in a 1v1. The reason champs need bubbles is for having survivability in a raid setting. This being said champs are still a bit over the top, simply because having the ability to use bubbles and sprint when we should not have to(I guess I am suggesting higher cooldown for sudden defence).Enough about champs though, its clear freeps are favoured right now. Creep mittigations are going to be higher, kelsen said as much.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/07206000000026c9f/signature.png]Maencrist[/charsig]

  10. #185
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    Thumbs up Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Quote Originally Posted by deathman22 View Post
    kelsen said as much.
    And we know his word is as good as gold







    Last edited by PurebloodWorg; Jan 30 2012 at 03:35 PM.

  11. #186

    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    I deved a freep last night for 253 common damage. This outrageous dps by creeps needs to be nerfed asap. I would have 1 shotted the chimp if he had 200 moral.

  12. #187
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    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Quote Originally Posted by Faileon View Post
    DAFUQ? 1h CD for 10s of +75% PARRY. You call that OP?!
    Lol'd pretty hard, 9/10.

  13. #188
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    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    I know this thread is about the crits of freeps and how it contributes to the imbalance in the moors atm, but shouldnt we be considering the overall dps vs tps as a better indicator?

    Sure the crits to creeps needs to be addressed but its really just i piece of the beat-down pie creeps are eating atm. My r7 warg has about 11k morale atm, and deals anywhere from 50-125 dps atm depending on the class I am fighting. This versus the 300-800 tps I recieve..... thats anywheres from a 1-6 to 1-8 ratio of dps to tps, and with better freep armour/morale (I have seen all freep classes with close to or at 10k morale, maybe not RK's - but they can outheal my dps 1v1), my "morale advantage" is a mute point. Even with the reduced damage freeps face with such high morale builds, they still out-dps me by far. Just download the combatanalysis plugin - great tool but kind of depressing.

    Factoring in the crits is just guaranteed victory for even the worst freeps roaming the moors. Tbh, the only thing I can solo atm is the terrible hunters (if you can ever find one solo), whose only experience has been raid/zerging creeps as they spam 2 or 3 skills from the back lines.

    Alright - I know I suck, but does every freep I fight have crazy in game skills? Prolly not, but they dont need to. They dont need to rely on the full range of skills they have, not with a straight-up dps advantage. Our morale, despite what freeps say, is not high enough to mitigate or at least balance this advantage. Maybe at higher lvls creeps are on an more equal playing field.... but then again who wants to roll a creep to rank 9+ while being pwned the whole time, and then find out you might "have a chance" vs some under ranked freeps? Not to mention, freeps are lvling much faster than we can.....so even if you do get to the higher lvls as a creep, your gonna be facing a lot of freeps who got there travelling an much easier path (this is the case on my server at least - definitely more high lvl freeps to creeps).

    Best fight I ever had was on my rnk5 WL vs a rnk2 shield warden (he was pretty bad but so am I). We fought for 10 min, and he ended up running after he blew all his cd's......I spent the next 10 min chasing him and finally had to enlist the help of a warg to kill him.

    Also - LOL at loki84. He ALMOST beat you? You had to use pots and your full range of skills? You should ALWAYS beat a lower ranked creep? Welcome to our world (well not really sounds like you beat him).
    Last edited by peaceofmind; Jan 30 2012 at 06:11 PM.

  14. #189

    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    8k morale champ vs 15k morale reaver. Champ does 5k dev. That's a 33% morale hit. To meet that, the reaver would have to do around 2.6k on a devastating hit.

    6k morale burger vs 12k morale warg. Burg does a 2k crit. 16% morale hit. Warg would need to do around 1k crit to meet that.

    7k morale hunter vs 13k morale BA. Hunter does a 4k crit. 30% hit. BA needs to do 2.1k crit to meet that.


    You need to factor in a lot of differences (e.g. resistances, mitigations, DPS) but if you want to actually compare crits, just go for what morale % it is. More often than not, you'll find that the massive freep crit isn't actually as big in terms of percentage.
    Wow almost looks fair but you're forgetting one thing:

    Every one of thoes freep classes has 3 or more skills that will reliably crit for at least the number you quoted.

    for example:

    Hunters 7-8K on HS, SB for ~1.5 each, pen shot for 3K, blood arrow 3k and merciful shot 3K.

    Furthermore:

    Your quoted creep moral numbers are for creeps that stack moral and therefor will NEVER hit for the numbers you quoted.

    ISB means champs can count on a hit for 6K+ (they have gotten over 1k crits on their bow ffs), however, revers can never count on a crit when they use their dev strike. So you should compare 100% crit chance for a champ (every 2 mins) with whatever the crit % chance of the reaver is on dev strike (also every 2 mis). Finally reavers will not do a 2k crit on a champ or any other heavy or medium armor class, maybe a light armor on a dev crit.

    Burgs SS can all hit above for 1.5K and if they use aim their cunning attack can hit ~400 every tick. Quite often with burgs it's the stacking of very fast skills that all do 300-400 per hit or tick that makes burgs blow stuff up + their ability to lock down single targets.

    So when you compare a freeps ability to crit large on multiple skills as well as getting guaranteed crits, you'll see that freeps have a massive advantage with more high damage skills and the % of times they crit with them.
    Last edited by ksjock; Jan 30 2012 at 10:57 PM.
    "the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except those that sang best" - Henry VanDyke

  15. #190
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    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    5k+ is a dev, auto crits are usually in the area of 3k+ (under if you DW iirc) just to clarify. I'm pretty sure burgs auto-dev is probably twice that with the right gear. In full DPS gear champions are usually below 7k morale and I've seen my mitigations go as low as 35% (highest I can reach is about 68%, too). I'd be more worried about the high morale/mitigationed players that are still able to achieve moderately high numbers. The tradeoff for damage is fair, but there isn't much of a trade for mits/morale.

    Also unless the player is swapping bows they're missing about 1k physical mit and 1% crit in exchange for a bow that does probably 3-400 per hit. Which is ironically still more damage than some creeps.

  16. #191
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    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    5.4k MS on a R6 Reaver just now.

    5.9k EC on a R9 Warg yesterday.


    This game's PvP is utterly garbage. On my R9 WL'r I crit with my Intimidating Shout and the -40% runspeed isn't even taking effect.

    Thank the Fates this game has been free for me for well over two years now otherwise I'd be sending the Turbine coders a "FUFUFUFUFUFUFUFUFUUFUFUFU " card with each new patch/expansion failing to balance things out. To date... that "balance" has never been reached. /Pathetic

  17. #192
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    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    8k morale champ vs 15k morale reaver. Champ does 5k dev. That's a 33% morale hit. To meet that, the reaver would have to do around 2.6k on a devastating hit.

    6k morale burger vs 12k morale warg. Burg does a 2k crit. 16% morale hit. Warg would need to do around 1k crit to meet that.

    7k morale hunter vs 13k morale BA. Hunter does a 4k crit. 30% hit. BA needs to do 2.1k crit to meet that.


    You need to factor in a lot of differences (e.g. resistances, mitigations, DPS) but if you want to actually compare crits, just go for what morale % it is. More often than not, you'll find that the massive freep crit isn't actually as big in terms of percentage.
    You have to slot all health corruptions to reach those health pools on reavers/wargs/BAs, so why is it exactly you compare that to low morale freeps ? My minstrel has got 8.5k-9k morale in the ettenmoors and I could push that higher if I tried. Being that light armour classes have the lowest base morale, I dare say champs/burglars/hunters can do better than that, particularly burglars, 6k morale for a burglar wasn't even good at level 65.

    Edit: Not that it matters anyway, that would only be remotely relevant if critical hit rates where the same. 100% chance to score a crit with Remorless Strike with whatever that champ skill is called, 100% chance to score a crit from stealth and 100% chance to score (a) devastating crit(s) using Aim for burgs, +25% crit chance from Improved Focus for hunters, much higher base crit rates to boot ...
    Last edited by Equendil; Jan 30 2012 at 10:20 PM.
    [size=1]Freeps (Snowbourn): [b]Equanor (R11 MNS)[/b] - Equendil - Orlo - Equadoc - Quaolin - Oshia - Kaolin - Equaric - Equorn
    Creeps (Snowbourn): Veloch (R9 RVR) - Velrow (R10 BA) - Velkro - Oruk - Velrot - Velreth
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  18. #193
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    Data for kelsan and Orion

    Titosu scored a devastating hit with Remorseless Strike on Purebloodnakh for 5,413 Beleriand damage to Morale

    Were 5K+ Melee strikes part of the plan Kelsan ?

    How do you plan to counter this as the Creep Developer?
    Last edited by PurebloodWorg; Jan 31 2012 at 07:40 AM.

  19. #194
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    Re: Data for kelsan and Orion

    Quote Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg View Post
    Titosu scored a devastating hit with Remorseless Strike on Purebloodnakh for 5,413 Beleriand damage to Morale

    Were 5K+ Melee strikes part of the plan Kelsan ?

    How do you plan to counter this as the Creep Developer?
    I know you have invested a lot of time into PvP and the crusade to get attention, I admire your efforts and from time to time I’ve used the daily troll as motivation to get into threads with a pro creep message.

    I’m sad to say though that it appears to be a largely wasted effort. More PvE is coming, so to answer your question I don’t think he plans to counter it at all. Had that been his intent he would have adjusted for the uncapping of the freep stats at ROI which are producing these crits.

    Got hit by a 5.6k Epic conclusion the other day (Sunday morning) didn’t bother to save it to post here, logged after that.

    Keep up the good fight man, but Kelsan isn’t one of the droids you’re looking for…..

  20. #195
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    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Creep DPS compared to morale of freeps is really fine. As long as you compare them to medium and light armour classes. Heavies are complete askew here. A 15k BA hit me with a skill I believe it translates to hindering shot for 1,2k which will roughly translate to 18% of my morale. I believe I crit along the lines of that which means more dmg absolutely but the same compared to his morale pool. Same goes for Wargs and reavers though chances there can range from slim to none simply because of the knockdown and the time i need for setting up my highest dmg.
    When it comes to Guards and Champs there it goes wrong since they deal really good dmg, while being dealt a lot less and having close to the same morale pools. The mitigation update really mocked things up balancewise.
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  21. #196

    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Quote Originally Posted by VincentVanPort View Post
    Creep DPS compared to morale of freeps is really fine... A 15k BA hit me with a skill I believe it translates to hindering shot for 1,2k...

  22. #197
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    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Quote Originally Posted by VincentVanPort View Post
    Creep DPS compared to morale of freeps is really fine. As long as you compare them to medium and light armour classes. Heavies are complete askew here. A 15k BA hit me with a skill I believe it translates to hindering shot for 1,2k which will roughly translate to 18% of my morale. I believe I crit along the lines of that which means more dmg absolutely but the same compared to his morale pool. Same goes for Wargs and reavers though chances there can range from slim to none simply because of the knockdown and the time i need for setting up my highest dmg.
    When it comes to Guards and Champs there it goes wrong since they deal really good dmg, while being dealt a lot less and having close to the same morale pools. The mitigation update really mocked things up balancewise.
    It’s really not complex the uncapping of stats for the ROI expansion has led to the ability of freep players to land incredibly high critical hits that cannot be equaled by the majority of creeps( I still have yet to see a 4k+crit by a creep). On top of that survivability was increased for freep players for the PvE game (the bubble bath effect I call it).

    So your initial point might be correct that creep DPS is ok in comparative to freep morale but that’s not what the discussion is about. The mitigations fiasco is an annoyance really, an additional 10% mitigation will be nice but it doesn’t address the larger issue of the PvE effect on the moors. After the mits are fixed there are really only a few ways to go:

    1. Nerf freeps (not going to happen, and I’m not advocating that)
    2. Increase dps buffs for battlefield promotions for creeps. (I advocate for this, these cannot be bought in store though).
    3. Continue on with little to know changes, maybe a new map which wont account for the PvE impact on balance (the likely scenario)
    4. Stop playing PvP in lotro and find another game for PvP play.

  23. #198
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    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Quote Originally Posted by VincentVanPort View Post
    Creep DPS compared to morale of freeps is really fine. As long as you compare them to medium and light armour classes. Heavies are complete askew here. A 15k BA hit me with a skill I believe it translates to hindering shot for 1,2k which will roughly translate to 18% of my morale. I believe I crit along the lines of that which means more dmg absolutely but the same compared to his morale pool. Same goes for Wargs and reavers though chances there can range from slim to none simply because of the knockdown and the time i need for setting up my highest dmg.
    When it comes to Guards and Champs there it goes wrong since they deal really good dmg, while being dealt a lot less and having close to the same morale pools. The mitigation update really mocked things up balancewise.
    Sorry, can't believe that BA thingie. A BA has to be r15, fully morale-traited, buffed with Imposing Presence, WL morale aura and DP buff to eventually reach 15k. No way Hindering Shot could crit for 1,2k either.. tooltip says 140 dmg for my BA.. It was either Punctured Target, Headshot or Tangleshot.

    The morale/dmg percentage for hunters vs creeps maybe somehow okay, but not for any other medium or light armored class. We need to look at potential morale here. LM has potentially 4k-5k more morale than his base one with wisdom. Plus he can hit 4k-5k 5-target AoE wrapped with a long stun, which creep class can do that? Burglar can pop TnG and Knives Out disturbingly often, which makes him have potentially more morale than he first seems to have. Creeps don't have such things (save for Moving Target and uruk heal).

    And minnies, well I don't think they need explaining
    Last edited by Havoc007; Jan 31 2012 at 11:05 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2921e0000000a4ef4/signature.png]Havocz[/charsig]
    [I]Casual RPer[/I]
    Havocz lvl65 LM, Dalin lvl48 GRD, Berenir lvl32 CPT - [B]members of the same fellowship[/B]
    Narzgash r8 Reaver, Ternakh r6 BA, Lugnakh r4 Warg, Ulburz r4 WL - [B]the creeps who always remain True[/B]
    [U]Snowbourn[/U]
    --
    [I]Never on the dark side. Sauron sucks. Just many bad ones appear among the supposed 'good ones'. So experiencing another aspect of the game.
    Respect your opponent, and you won't regret anything.[/I]

  24. #199
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    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Best for a while



    Not even a dev
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2921e0000000a4ef4/signature.png]Havocz[/charsig]
    [I]Casual RPer[/I]
    Havocz lvl65 LM, Dalin lvl48 GRD, Berenir lvl32 CPT - [B]members of the same fellowship[/B]
    Narzgash r8 Reaver, Ternakh r6 BA, Lugnakh r4 Warg, Ulburz r4 WL - [B]the creeps who always remain True[/B]
    [U]Snowbourn[/U]
    --
    [I]Never on the dark side. Sauron sucks. Just many bad ones appear among the supposed 'good ones'. So experiencing another aspect of the game.
    Respect your opponent, and you won't regret anything.[/I]

  25. #200
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    Re: Ridiculous Crits

    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc007 View Post
    Best for a while



    Not even a dev
    For some reason, I just loved the 45 reflect damage back at him after the 5600 hit.

    I know it's only reflect damage and all that, it just looked funny.

    *KABLAMAPOWZINGEERRRRRBOOOM!!! * 5600 on your head
    *dink* 45 back at ya, buddy...take that!

 

 
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