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  1. #926
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    Golfa scored a devastating hit with Improved Sticky Gourd on Fluffyburg for 4,224 Fire damage to Morale.
    [FONT=Georgia][CENTER]Dinmithrandir ~~ Celebromen ~~ Esgalril
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  2. #927
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    I got a 10K dev from Ents go to war on my 8 aud r6 warg last night. Another warg in our pack ate a 6.5K crit at the same time...
    [url]http://www.sigcreator.com/generatedsigs/124186189200lotro_lotro03.png[/url]

  3. #928
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadacakai View Post
    The average EC dev being thrown at my defiler lately is around 6k-6.5k, with multiple other 3-4k hits from those other faceroll skills.

    Full Aud, 3 crit protection, slick flesh..around 48% crit reduction.

    A wl in our group was hit for over 9.8k.

    And freeps wonder why we dont want then to have any OPs...:P
    Oh, so that's the reason? It has nothing to do with creeps on Silverlode simply wanting a fully red map every time they have numbers?

    One thing that may have been mentioned in the previous 37 pages (tl;dr) all of the hits are in proportion. It seems that freeps hit about 2x as hard as creeps in general (there are some geared creeps that can hit very hard as well, but they are statistical outliars) but at the same time creeps are about 2x greater in morale than freeps.

    28k WL, 24k reavers... 11k RK's, LM,s...
    Irin r8 Hunter // Arngar r8 Burg // Akthuri r15 LM // Vishus r5 Captain // Curad r10 (active) Mini

  4. #929
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irin19 View Post
    Oh, so that's the reason? It has nothing to do with creeps on Silverlode simply wanting a fully red map every time they have numbers?

    One thing that may have been mentioned in the previous 37 pages (tl;dr) all of the hits are in proportion. It seems that freeps hit about 2x as hard as creeps in general (there are some geared creeps that can hit very hard as well, but they are statistical outliars) but at the same time creeps are about 2x greater in morale than freeps.

    28k WL, 24k reavers... 11k RK's, LM,s...
    Are you justifying the ridiculous damage numbers freeps put out by saying that it's ok since Creeps generally have higher morale?

    So a 14k crit on a Warg (who generally have around 15k-17k morale) is ok?
    I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.

  5. #930
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irin19 View Post
    (there are some geared creeps that can hit very hard as well, but they are statistical outliars)
    I assume you're speaking about Creeps that use a tiny axe... I absolutely agree!

    Creeps should continue re-logging till they can enter battle with a suitable weapon :/

  6. #931
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irin19 View Post
    Oh, so that's the reason? It has nothing to do with creeps on Silverlode simply wanting a fully red map every time they have numbers?

    One thing that may have been mentioned in the previous 37 pages (tl;dr) all of the hits are in proportion. It seems that freeps hit about 2x as hard as creeps in general (there are some geared creeps that can hit very hard as well, but they are statistical outliars) but at the same time creeps are about 2x greater in morale than freeps.

    28k WL, 24k reavers... 11k RK's, LM,s...
    Yeah...except 28k WLs and 24k Reavers are morale built, 11k RKs and LMs are glass cannon builds. I've seen plenty of 20k+ RKs, minis and LMs when they wish to build for morale, and yet they still hit at least twice as hard as morale built creeps. I myself am sitting on 15k on LM, and that's my 'neutral' build, combining high DPS with high mitigations, but without stacking morale.
    But that's not even the main issue, the main issue is DPS and HPS that is stupidly low on creepside. Sure a BA can dish out three big hits, but after that he's left with nothing. Whereas a mini, champ, RK or Hunter can keep pumping out big hit after big hit continuously until their targets are dead.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  7. #932
    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    Yeah...except 28k WLs and 24k Reavers are morale built, 11k RKs and LMs are glass cannon builds. I've seen plenty of 20k+ RKs, minis and LMs when they wish to build for morale, and yet they still hit at least twice as hard as morale built creeps. I myself am sitting on 15k on LM, and that's my 'neutral' build, combining high DPS with high mitigations, but without stacking morale.
    Ok, just show me one 20k Morale SOLO RK hitting for at least 8k, I highly doubt they exist.

    Just so that you are aware, full glass canon RKs and Minstrels are at 9k + BFP, Neutral builds are 10-11k + BFP and Morale builds 12+k + BFP, LMs are 1-2k higher normally

    My Healing RK, wearing best in slot gear for almost every slot, except 1 or 2 has 13,7k Morale including R9 BFP


    My point of view is:
    Sure Moors is unbalanced, however Creeps would get more understanding from Freeps if they 1) didn't exaggerate that much and 2) L2P before complaining
    When I'm able to survive for 2 or 3 minutes solo in EC against ~12-15 Creeps until the FRaid arrives, like it happened yesterday, I have no understanding for nerf cries. It sounds like "I'm to stupid to think before button mashing, so please nerf this, Turbine"

    No timed CC, no interupts, no inductions debuffs, no timed burst - stupid button mashing like that shouldn't be encouraged

    If someone L2P first and then asks for nerfs it's fine, but if someone zerged their rank up and his no idea what to do and then cries for nerfs, that's stupid

  8. #933
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    Ok, just show me one 20k Morale SOLO RK hitting for at least 8k, I highly doubt they exist.

    Just so that you are aware, full glass canon RKs and Minstrels are at 9k + BFP, Neutral builds are 10-11k + BFP and Morale builds 12+k + BFP, LMs are 1-2k higher normally

    My Healing RK, wearing best in slot gear for almost every slot, except 1 or 2 has 13,7k Morale including R9 BFP


    My point of view is:
    Sure Moors is unbalanced, however Creeps would get more understanding from Freeps if they 1) didn't exaggerate that much and 2) L2P before complaining
    When I'm able to survive for 2 or 3 minutes solo in EC against ~12-15 Creeps until the FRaid arrives, like it happened yesterday, I have no understanding for nerf cries. It sounds like "I'm to stupid to think before button mashing, so please nerf this, Turbine"

    No timed CC, no interupts, no inductions debuffs, no timed burst - stupid button mashing like that shouldn't be encouraged

    If someone L2P first and then asks for nerfs it's fine, but if someone zerged their rank up and his no idea what to do and then cries for nerfs, that's stupid
    Some creeps, I grant you, do exaggerate. However, do you really think the majority of Creeps are exagerrating? Look at this thread for instance. Do these numbers (and a few screenies) look like something Creeps came up with off the tops of their heads?

    Looking at some of the posts in this thread makes unbalanced look like a real understatement in describing Moors.

    And seriously? Learn to play? Come on now, really?
    I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.

  9. #934
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irin19 View Post
    One thing that may have been mentioned in the previous 37 pages (tl;dr) all of the hits are in proportion. It seems that freeps hit about 2x as hard as creeps in general (there are some geared creeps that can hit very hard as well, but they are statistical outliars) but at the same time creeps are about 2x greater in morale than freeps.

    28k WL, 24k reavers... 11k RK's, LM,s...
    Meh. There is nothing proportional about any of this. Your numbers are incorrect.

  10. #935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    Ok, just show me one 20k Morale SOLO RK hitting for at least 8k, I highly doubt they exist.
    Of course not, that's my point, a point which you appear to have missed. Morale built the RK hits for maybe 5-6k on a full aud creep, just as a morale built BA hits for maybe 3k at best (with all armour debuffs on target). But the difference in morale between the two classes when both build for morale is negligible, the BA runs around with 22k and the RK with 20k. Not to mention the RK will have higher mitigations and access to more healing/CC (for now), and many other DPS skills that allow him/her to keep a high DPS rotation, whereas a BA does not.


    Just so that you are aware, full glass canon RKs and Minstrels are at 9k + BFP, Neutral builds are 10-11k + BFP and Morale builds 12+k + BFP, LMs are 1-2k higher normally

    My Healing RK, wearing best in slot gear for almost every slot, except 1 or 2 has 13,7k Morale including R9 BFP
    Not sure whether I should laugh or cry at this. Are you on Withywindle, by any chance?




    My point of view is:
    Sure Moors is unbalanced, however Creeps would get more understanding from Freeps if they 1) didn't exaggerate that much
    No exaggerations. Heck many of the posts in this thread even have pictures as proof for those massive hits. You can cover your eyes and go "La la la I can't see it so it doesn't exist" all you want, it doesn't change the fact that freeps have the ability to outclass a creep class on nearly every terrain. DPS, heals, CC, mitigations, debuffs, avoidances, buffs, you name it. The only thing creeps are better at is combat rezzing, which is quite sad when you think about it: dying is just part of their tactics.
    The only exception to this imbalance would be Reaver, which is closest to freep classes in terms of overall power. A good Reaver can go toe-to-toe with some freep classes played by someone of equal experience.


    and 2) L2P before complaining
    When I'm able to survive for 2 or 3 minutes solo in EC against ~12-15 Creeps until the FRaid arrives, like it happened yesterday, I have no understanding for nerf cries. It sounds like "I'm to stupid to think before button mashing, so please nerf this, Turbine"

    No timed CC, no interupts, no inductions debuffs, no timed burst - stupid button mashing like that shouldn't be encouraged
    I did that on my LM. I don't cry nerf on my class because of such things because it was simply stupid play (and perhaps overconfidence) by them. Heck I killed 7 of them before they ran.
    But I do realise that if the situation was reversed, even the dumbest freeps would have succeeded with button mashing if I had been on creep in OC. Even if they had half that number, 6 freeps would have smashed any solo creep into the ground by rolling their face over the keyboard, the power gap is just that big.



    If someone L2P first and then asks for nerfs it's fine, but if someone zerged their rank up and his no idea what to do and then cries for nerfs, that's stupid
    Agreed, which is why we have been asking for buffs/nerfs for nearly 7 years. Some updates it gets close to a balance, some updates (like right now) the gap is so ridiculously large to a point where I can solo 2-3 high ranked creeps on some of my classes, and mow down groups of low ranks.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  11. #936
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    Minstrels with 30k health hit creeps for 15k damage. Honest.
    [size=1]Freeps (Snowbourn): [b]Equanor (R11 MNS)[/b] - Equendil - Orlo - Equadoc - Quaolin - Oshia - Kaolin - Equaric - Equorn
    Creeps (Snowbourn): Veloch (R9 RVR) - Velrow (R10 BA) - Velkro - Oruk - Velrot - Velreth
    Author of the [url=http://tiny.cc/2zm50w]Legendary Item Planner[/url], [url=http://tiny.cc/m1m50w]Bootstrap[/url] and [url=http://tiny.cc/41m50w]Baruk[/url] plugins.[/size]

  12. #937
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    When I'm able to survive for 2 or 3 minutes solo in EC against ~12-15 Creeps until the FRaid arrives, like it happened yesterday, I have no understanding for nerf cries. It sounds like "I'm to stupid to think before button mashing, so please nerf this, Turbine"
    This should not be possible. Even when all the 12+ creeps had absolutely no clue what they are doing you should be killed by autoattacs in a shorter time.

    Besides this I wonder where all those self-proclaimed solo freeps are. When a was doing some daily quests on Sunday I encountered repeatedly groups of 3Minis/1RK, 1RK/1LM/1Cappy, 1Cappy/1LM/2+Huntards, 1Chimp/1Cappy/1Mini. Variations only in the class of the appointed healer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    If someone L2P first and then asks for nerfs it's fine, but if someone zerged their rank up and his no idea what to do and then cries for nerfs, that's stupid
    Here is your basic mistake: to L2P you actually have to play. Learning by doing! If as a greenie creep you are constantly 1/2/3-shooted right at the beginning of every encounter you simply have no way to learn your skills. The consequence can already be seen out there. A lot of high-rank freep having fun. The lower ranks are mostly freep veterans that switched to FOTM classes. Creepside most higher ranks transferred or stopped playing. You see waves of greenie creeps. 90+% never make it past r5. The current situation is simply not encouraging to start from scratch creepside.
    I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people. ... I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.

  13. #938
    Quote Originally Posted by Equendil View Post
    Minstrels with 30k health hit creeps for 15k damage. Honest.
    Not only that, but they then heal themselves for 20K
    [IMG]http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/supermaco/2800703.png[/IMG]

  14. #939
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selebrimbor View Post
    Are you justifying the ridiculous damage numbers freeps put out by saying that it's ok since Creeps generally have higher morale?

    So a 14k crit on a Warg (who generally have around 15k-17k morale) is ok?
    No, not at all. I am simply presenting a more realistic picture. Please, don't put words in my mouth, I am quite capable of speaking for myself.

    That said, I am also the first to admit that *currently* freeps have the pendulum swung in their favor. u9 my LM was bottom of the food chain, I still came out every night and played, I didn't whine in the forums because I knew the pendulum would swing back, it always does. All I was doing was interjecting a bit of reality into this conversation.

    Are we measuring ourselves against the greats on our servers or the "average" players? Something else to consider, which means this conversation is as much about HOW the toon is played as it is lack of perceived balance.

    At the end of the day the situation is not as dire as many of you make it out to be - and if it is and you're no longer having fun, quit playing. Fundamentally this is a PvE game, changes come to freeps, the creep devs can only adjust creeps to "match". As time has gone along I think it has become more difficult for the devs to keep up with those changes, therefore greater disparity when the pendulum does swing.

    Honestly, as a career LM, I wish I didn't have to trait red line every day, but with DR, pots and the way the moors are currently designed I am left with no choice, heck, as it stands I can't out-dps a r7 defiler's heals or a r8 warleader's. I can run them out of power over the span of 20 minutes, but the zerg has arrived long before then and killed me - or my opponent.
    Irin r8 Hunter // Arngar r8 Burg // Akthuri r15 LM // Vishus r5 Captain // Curad r10 (active) Mini

  15. #940
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irin19 View Post
    No, not at all. I am simply presenting a more realistic picture. Please, don't put words in my mouth, I am quite capable of speaking for myself.
    I was merely asking a question for the sake of clarification, not trying to put words in your mouth.
    I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.

  16. #941
    Quote Originally Posted by Irin19 View Post
    u9 my LM was bottom of the food chain, I still came out every night and played
    you lost me here.
    [center][img]http://i58.tinypic.com/2wrm5ja_th.jpg[/img][/center]
    [center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

  17. #942
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    you lost me here.
    Not sure what confused you, but I will try again. During update 9 LM's were in a woeful place, everything r6 and above had no issues taking down an LM. During that time on my server there was one regular who played through the tough times - me. This is not an effort to pat myself on the back, but to explain that I knew corrections would be made to my class - and they were. Now my server has a ton of LM's in the moors.

    Clear enough?
    Irin r8 Hunter // Arngar r8 Burg // Akthuri r15 LM // Vishus r5 Captain // Curad r10 (active) Mini

  18. #943
    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    Of course not, that's my point, a point which you appear to have missed. Morale built the RK hits for maybe 5-6k on a full aud creep, just as a morale built BA hits for maybe 3k at best (with all armour debuffs on target). But the difference in morale between the two classes when both build for morale is negligible, the BA runs around with 22k and the RK with 20k. Not to mention the RK will have higher mitigations and access to more healing/CC (for now), and many other DPS skills that allow him/her to keep a high DPS rotation, whereas a BA does not.
    Yeah, raid buffed maybe..

    Which greatly screws the comparison as Freeps have much better offensive and defensive buffs. Same Morale and twice the damage isn't possible solo, that has nothing to do with skill or anything - the gear simply doesn't allow for it

    When I'm raid buffed I'm over 17k, sure (Healing that is) and could reach 20k easily (though losing either defences or healing output - which is what would be)

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    Not sure whether I should laugh or cry at this. Are you on Withywindle, by any chance?
    Not from WW, my main server is Gwaihir, but I have toons on Vanyar (both sides) too and a low ranked Creep on Brandy (though not playing there a lot)


    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    I did that on my LM. I don't cry nerf on my class because of such things because it was simply stupid play (and perhaps overconfidence) by them. Heck I killed 7 of them before they ran.
    But I do realise that if the situation was reversed, even the dumbest freeps would have succeeded with button mashing if I had been on creep in OC. Even if they had half that number, 6 freeps would have smashed any solo creep into the ground by rolling their face over the keyboard, the power gap is just that big.
    I actually never said I like the current situation, or think it's fair

    I know that the balance is completly screwed up (having a few r6/7 Creeps that I play every once in a while), however it upsets me when mid-ranked and low skilled Creeps QQ that they aren't equal to high ranked and experienced Freeps (thats the situation on my server - I don't know the situation on yours)

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    Agreed, which is why we have been asking for buffs/nerfs for nearly 7 years. Some updates it gets close to a balance, some updates (like right now) the gap is so ridiculously large to a point where I can solo 2-3 high ranked creeps on some of my classes, and mow down groups of low ranks.
    The current situation is that a FRaid of 16-18 (with less than 1 Cappy and 1 Healer per group) is about equal to a CRaid of 24 (with 2WLs and 1 Defiler per group) when all participants are R10+,however it's true that Freeps get a lot more powerful when stacking heals

  19. #944
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    Ok, just show me one 20k Morale SOLO RK hitting for at least 8k, I highly doubt they exist.
    Good thing PvP in this game is centred around RvR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    Just so that you are aware, full glass canon RKs and Minstrels are at 9k + BFP, Neutral builds are 10-11k + BFP and Morale builds 12+k + BFP, LMs are 1-2k higher normally
    I'm glad you are here to represent the entire RK and minstrel community with these numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    My point of view is:
    2) L2P before complaining
    If freeps did this no creep raid would ever win a battle. Look at what happened when Blight and Revenge became accessible. Shall we change tactics from the freepball? Shall we heal more to counter burst dps? No, let's QQ on the forums until they nerf it so we don't have to adapt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    If someone L2P first and then asks for nerfs it's fine, but if someone zerged their rank up and his no idea what to do and then cries for nerfs, that's stupid
    Judging from your posts I believe you should listen to your own advice.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    Yeah, raid buffed maybe..
    Which, again, is the main basis of PvP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    Not from WW, my main server is Gwaihir, but I have toons on Vanyar (both sides) too and a low ranked Creep on Brandy (though not playing there a lot)
    Please stay away from Brandy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    The current situation is that a FRaid of 16-18 (with less than 1 Cappy and 1 Healer per group) is about equal to a CRaid of 24 (with 2WLs and 1 Defiler per group) when all participants are R10+,however it's true that Freeps get a lot more powerful when stacking heals
    You are talking some sense at last.

  20. #945
    Quote Originally Posted by Irin19 View Post
    Not sure what confused you, but I will try again. During update 9 LM's were in a woeful place, everything r6 and above had no issues taking down an LM. During that time on my server there was one regular who played through the tough times - me. This is not an effort to pat myself on the back, but to explain that I knew corrections would be made to my class - and they were. Now my server has a ton of LM's in the moors.

    Clear enough?
    its painting a good picture, I do want to double check 1 thing. By after update 9, you mean the first phase of RoR, before BFPs were introduced freepside, and you aren't calling a different period update 9 by mistake.

    If you do in fact mean this time period, wow, props for admitting you struggled then at least.
    [center][img]http://i58.tinypic.com/2wrm5ja_th.jpg[/img][/center]
    [center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

  21. #946
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    its painting a good picture, I do want to double check 1 thing. By after update 9, you mean the first phase of RoR, before BFPs were introduced freepside, and you aren't calling a different period update 9 by mistake.

    If you do in fact mean this time period, wow, props for admitting you struggled then at least.
    Likely I have my timeframes mixed up, heck, I can't remember where I left my keys most of the time. Struggled? Mightily! But I also don't feel this current era is "owed" to me the way many players do after they come out of a long period of being marginalized.
    Irin r8 Hunter // Arngar r8 Burg // Akthuri r15 LM // Vishus r5 Captain // Curad r10 (active) Mini

  22. #947
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    Got hit for 5 1k crits last night, then a 3k hit on my warg.
    I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.

  23. #948
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    The highest crit that have received was a 6k epic conclusion, with all the added evade, resistance, and armor buff pots.
    Meshoot, rank 9 Blackarrow, Officer of Freepaphiles Riddermark
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  24. #949
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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    I've seen plenty of 20k+ RKs, minis and LMs when they wish to build for morale.
    then i'm sure you won't mind posting some screenshots for the sake of integrity hm?
    There may come a time for valor without renown, for those without swords may surely still die upon them.


  25. #950
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorandril View Post
    then i'm sure you won't mind posting some screenshots for the sake of integrity hm?
    You don't remember Lauraelinn, 22k minstrel in groups on average, reached 25k sometimes?

 

 
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