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Thread: QQ

  1. #1

    QQ

    I made a WL and ranked him to 5 with mostly pve to do it as fast as possible, cuz seeing freeps out in fight-able numbers or any numbers recently had been hard. I logged on and a thought popped in my mind (yes, i swear) i rank this by the super annoying grind so I could be annoying to freep raids, and bubble, heal etc poor creepies.
    So far so good, each day that passes gives a steady amount of inf and the rank comes.
    But the fighting rarely does...What point is there in ranking up if you don't have anything to fight or if you rather pve than rank - Toxic suggested that it makes future questing easier to rank again and so on.
    A fair amount of times I have seen a creep raid capable of fighting the 3 freeps in a keep and npcs leave and move on to some other PVE things like : flipping OPs, going in the delving, capping relics(of course, this isn't always only one side and i am speaking of situations when people choose to pve over pvp when they have the upper hand in the fight). I consider this a problem, this kills the game. Infamy for quests has given the opportunity to people to rank with minimal risk, sadly this has somehow distorted the way how the moors a lot of people loved worked.
    This is probably pretty pointless and I really don't have an answer yet, but maybe someone thinks of something - how we could return to the fun fights both open-field and in keeps as before. I really don't know - arranged raid v raid or something along the lines.
    Any thoughts, suggestions?


    Lotro PVP Videos l Thorfinn || r14 champ, r12 burglar- Crickhollow || r11//r9 warg Crick//Elendilmir || + other stuff

  2. #2
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    Re: QQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifroth View Post
    ........
    A fair amount of times I have seen a creep raid capable of fighting the 3 freeps in a keep and npcs leave and move on to some other PVE things like : flipping OPs, going in the delving, capping relics(of course, this isn't always only one side and i am speaking of situations when people choose to pve over pvp when they have the upper hand in the fight). I consider this a problem, this kills the game............
    In my measly experience, having the upper hand, is fairly boring. pushing into npcs/keeps is pretty boring. pushing into something when you have the upper hand to just to watch the other side run into more npcs, map out, or log is down-right depressing. So if I'm out and have farmed a few times, I'll go PvE a little.

    1. I get more dp and stones for consumables.
    2. It gives the outnumbered side a chance to get more.
    3. Lately it seems that if something's been flipped PvE, more of the opposing side will come out just to flip it.
    4. Idk but it seems that since the isen 3/6/12 mans came out most of the PvP-ers are still trying to get the new gear, cause well its new gear. I personally haven't decided that its actually overall better, but if it is, its one h3ll of a grind to get it all.

    yes using gmoors/forums to schedule raid vs raid might work. I still miss the FNFN (friday night fight night) that we used to have every weekend. we had some crazy fun times with that.

    PS. don't forget that skyrim and swtor just came out not that long ago too. alot of ppl left to go grind on those for a few months.
    Last edited by shak_me; Jan 12 2012 at 11:32 PM. Reason: added the PS
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0c214010000011aae/signature.png]Bigbaggie[/charsig]

    Tinybaggie r8, Fiestyspitter r6,Traind r8, Jaydyn r6, Thistledown r6

  3. #3
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    Re: QQ

    Welcome to the club


    The problem is the creep mentality, a distorted view of priorities. Rank does not equal skill, I don't care what anyone says. It just used to be in the past usually people with rank had a bit of skill, but Isen ruined that.

    Even in your post, questing being a low risk way of ranking up... whats the risk? Dying? Is having a 5 star rating worth giving up good fights?


    Dying isn't bad... I'm a hunter, I should never be in the front lines, but I find myself there a lot.. I get three kills and get shredded, its worth it. Imagine what would happen if classes designed to be on the front lines were there? Creeps don't seem to understand this. Reavers only fight while charge is up. Wargs pounce, take a few swipes then get back into stealth. BAs get hit once pop evade and run. Come on! Stand and fight, everyone

  4. #4

    Re: QQ

    The biggest problem with creep side at the moment is unity.

    Its not the reavers only fighting while charge is up, its that they are dead by the end of their charge.

    Only a few healers will push with the rest of the group. Defilers/WL's don't need to have a 30:1 kill to death ratio.

    There are zero good spiders fighting in raids, creeps are seriously missing some good CC.

    BAs don't like grouping up because they can get more infamy gold tagging.

    Wargs are rarely used to their potential, and when someone with some warg knowledge is coordinating the warg attacks the rest of the raid is left to "distract" the freeps, which entails getting pew pew'ed to hell.

    All of this leads to creeps getting wiped several times, tempers flare, the raid splinters into multiple groups and the freeps are forced to rush keeps or rez camp until they get bored. After spending some time out creepside lately, I've noticed that a lot of the new creeps out their want to PvP, but they never have any success.

    I was lucky, with my first ventures into the moors months ago. People like Seleth told me about my skills, and the basics like not pouncing burgs. Arach was leading the first raid I was invited to, and I was able to learn how inferior numbers can win a fight with team work, and catching your opponents unawares. Then Calidog was there to lead raids for the next several months and patiently training the new people and booting people that refused to listen.

    All of the experience is now on the freep side.e Nearly all the good leaders and players play freeps now, or have left the game. I'm not trying to tell people what side they have to play on. But these are the problems in a nutshell. Crickhollow creep/freep experience is way unbalanced. The larger the groups out there the more glaring the creep inexperience becomes.
    Merlinros - Brandywine
    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1pDdg8Ha0A[/url]

  5. #5
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    Re: QQ

    here is what i think lotro should do
    if they want 2 give creeps/freeps renown from questing thats should be just from killing each other
    like a quest ask u 2 kill 10/20 creep/freep
    other quest should give just DP since both side need it a lil more for creep since they rly need it for upgrads

    i have been there for a long time but in the past week im rly hating it its so boring when the u go out there die 10 times 8 time from tyrant
    i mean come on creeps 2day u had 5 difilers 4 ba 2 revears 2 wl and a couple wargs do u rly need 2 fight in ta with that numbers
    if u pick an open filed or scratch ur brain a lil u will got alot of fun with a good amount of infamy

    again its just a game play as u like but dont come QQing when u dont find any1 2 kill


    ./salute medo
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0c21400000006270e/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    Medo > r11 < Guardian__^^__Medoo > r9 < Stalker
    ( all i can do is be me, whatever that is . )

  6. #6

    Re: QQ

    Quote Originally Posted by dsadada View Post
    i mean come on creeps 2day u had 5 difilers 4 ba 2 revears 2 wl and a couple wargs do u rly need 2 fight in ta with that numbers
    So...about 15 creeps vs 3 burgs, a mini, an rk, 2 cappys, a guardian, 2 hunters, and a lore master - all with maxed out gear and skills - add the fact that 2/3 of the creeps are green - that is rank 3 or less - makes me wonder why the freeps kept retreating to the ec. Creeps aren't afraid to die, but they do like to live long enough to collect a kill here and there. I've been in the moors a month so far and I've never seen a creep rez camp, though I've been ganked several times trying to get back to my group. And if I had 20k morale and maxed skills I could stay in the fight longer...

  7. #7

    Re: QQ

    I find it amazing that when both creep and freep side is fractured in smal groups/soloists (meaning: er... very often?), both automatically assume the opposition = one big raid and proceed to whine in gmoors/ooc. Sure, it makes people feel better about themselves ("Pathetic, they're so scared with those numbers..."), some will even stop playing and try some softcore-PvP in here, using "kids, kids, in MY days..." and "l2p or I will quit...wait, I already did" legendary skills. I recall people qq-ing in very similar way and about very similar issues for months and months before RoI even happened, though it was definitely more personal when players - more or less - knew each other. All changes made by our Turbine overlords didn't eliminate one significant factor in all those problems - this game includes... ewww... people. As long as Turbine is not demanding to buy Rez Circle Access from Store, the source of boredom can be traced to us all, stuck in a single area with a single system - PvE infamy & p2w was atrocious, but it is just a background issue compared to beings controlling keyboards, with different expectations and hierarchies. But in the end the sheer amount of complaining and convenient excuses is a good justification to log (soon on both sides) and eventually we are left with Thorfinn depressed enough to actually make a sig. (I mean... really?:P)

    ToR has three Arena-style PVP minigames - both badly and nicely designed, but even with such pathetic number it is *very* easy to spend several hours with no queue at all, with constantly changing teams, which means crowds (which also means casual players, not exactly PvP stereotype) are actually running and enjoying them despite glaring issues and standard facepalming moments when most of the team goes kb-crazy ignoring everything else. This kind of PvMP-idea was floating around lotro forums/channels for ages with no result, but it would definitely solve arguments about numbers - and who knows, possibly even "PvMP participants being 1% of server pop plus few random people who are drunk/lost/ninjainvited" syndrome. Don't worry though, people will find another reason to cry/log in no time, because the next item on menu would have to be class balance (er... what??) and considering how "consistent" recent breakdates were, even in faction-to-faction terms...

    In terms of existing possibilities - arranged raid vs raid is dangerously close to CM 1vs1 - I think it would be as easy to find people who love them as those who consider them boring and artificial with arbitrary set of rules. Oh, and just think about it - what a great material for qq/ragelog when it turns out one of such raids is OP. Or, much more likely to happen with qqing mindset, both of them are

    Which brings me to the point when I have to scold you, Thor. Shame on you for assuming it's just few ideas that are needed to have fun in there on a daily basis. I consider it both awesome and inspiring that people actually managed to enjoy that slice of pie for such a long time not because it was "such a good place" - but *despite* Moors being the dump of dumps from Turbine PoV, randomness of encounters, connection quality and numbers or the whole background-PvE-when-nobody-is-here being wall-bash boring even by standards - or lack of them - of modern MMORPG. It's definitely working as a minigame, short distraction from main course - but, with possible exclusion of few PvP-ish servers with decent pop, several hours of pure PvP fun should be treated as a nice exception, not as something that will happen tomorrow as well. Even Dunlendings guarding Galtrev lumbercamp already know this: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
    Last edited by Ferthcott; Jan 13 2012 at 12:55 PM.

  8. #8
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    Re: QQ

    The fact is that both sides do the same - sit in npcs, run for their lives, do zergballs and so on. No sense to disagree with it, we all know it's true. Both sides want to live, and with the amount of quests creeps can do it sure might seem easier to quest for your reknown (killing 20 or however many cows to get 60 reknown doesn't excite me personally though, idk). If freeps had that abundance of reknown quests I have no doubt at least half if not more new and recent players (and several older ones, no doubt) would be questing for their reknown, much like creeps do atm.

    truth is, if there are no good leaders out there, it isn't gonna be a good fight probably. And there has to be a good leader on both sides preferrably, someone who knows it's a game and in addition to winning, it's supposed to be fun, too (Krool being a very nice (and also my favourite) example). And good leaders sadly don't grow on trees, and even the best ones have bad days. And so many good people have left for either other games, RL stuff or sheer boredom. So I don't think there's much other to do than encourage people to play more competitively.

    Also, Thor, instead of complaining, GET A MIC!!!, start leading raids and educate people on how to play. I know you know how to.
    Quit.

    Find me on Steam and ESO, same name.

  9. #9

    Re: QQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Erlessa View Post
    Also, Thor, instead of complaining, GET A MIC!!!, start leading raids and educate people on how to play. I know you know how to.
    Careful, you do know we all love when Thor is aggroing himself using Typing traitline ^^

  10. #10
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    Re: QQ

    Right now my perception is that the raid leaders that were decent creepside have all quit. A lot of the good creeps have disappeared too. There are a lot more greenies out and a fair amount of them seem to not know when it's appropriate to use voice chat.

    Besides that, I'm still waiting for them to fix the stupid mitigation bug they introduced in U5.

    As a rule of thumb for freeps, if the creeps aren't pushing but have numbers, it's because they're a disorganized group (probably of greenies). With very little exception most leads would try several pushes/wipes before giving up and npc-hugging.

  11. #11
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    Cool Re: QQ

    Got to love these posts, reminds me of the early days on Menedlor server.

  12. #12

    Re: QQ

    [QUOTE=Hoges;5926335]

    There are zero good spiders fighting in raids, creeps are seriously missing some good CC.
    I know my spider sucks and i'm the worst creep on the server, maybe just a little slack?
    The biggest problems creepside atm I think are no leaders who are quality and will stick around. (Getting a few good leaders recently and see if they stick around.)
    Are other major problem is creeps not sticking for the long run. We can have decent numbers one daythen none of the greenies stay to get strong.
    [CENTER][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0c214010000059ebb/signature.png]Iamthenerfbat[/charsig]
    [/CENTER]

  13. #13
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    Re: QQ

    Teamwork is the key to success for creep fights, but there is another important aspect. The higher the rank, the better off creeps are for fights, that's the truth for me. That's just how it is for those who don't pay-to-win, the way I see it. If it weren't for the quests available to get infamy, I wouldn't have hit rank 5. I probably would have just quit the moors early on. Getting ganked by rez campers and dying easily while a baby reaver would have been the reasoning behind it. I wouldn't have had a decent way to unlock more corruption and class slots, or gotten the chance to finally get to my racial traits. When there are no freeps out, or too many out, the only stable way of gaining infamy is through questing. Otherwise, I'd say a high multiplier for getting freep kills would help get more PvP action. Seriously, I wouldn't be in the mood for getting blasted by overpowered self-healing minstrels, shanked by overpowered rez-camping burglars, or killed by overpowered bubbled champions if it weren't for the existing alternate for gaining infamy. Double the infamy gain from freep kills, and perhaps there may be more incentive to dive in those often suicidal fights.
    Last edited by Aztec_Soul; Jan 13 2012 at 08:47 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0c2140100000b9311/signature.png]Mavirthael[/charsig]

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  14. #14
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    Re: QQ

    I think the Moors has 2 gears (serious and not so serious). Moors is competitive and I think people get lost in the competition sometimes (i am guilty of it as well). When the groups are pretty even I consider this serious time, eg, a time for tactics and direction and focus fire. But when they are way unbalanced it's not so serious time, eg, push all the way up to tyrant for one creep, or mounted suicide charges into the rez circle. I think people forget to just have fun at these times. Also there haven't been many good battles recently so people are just frustrated...
    Ls
    Cas
    Last edited by Coyote503; Jan 14 2012 at 12:17 AM.
    Viva Lotro!

  15. #15

    Re: QQ

    LoL, i am no mod, ofc, but still, my idea was not start flame wars nr 666^4892103849102831290 on which side is the lamest or w/e you like.
    I will agree with most posts, especially about people being frustrated from the lack of good fights, which i finally had again, THANK YOU EVERYONE.
    Also, people have to follow directions god damn it, Erl. I tried to lead, ended up dropping, forming a flank squad, getting zerged once and failing to find life on freepside, lol.
    Another note, mainly to the creep leading people - don't underrate a well organized creep raid, sometimes you can have an openfield fight where only like 2 people are left standing.
    And ONE more thing - thank you Yomamma for leading us with the - we don't need no educa...npcs(most of the time) - rule.
    Last edited by Nifroth; Jan 16 2012 at 10:56 AM.


    Lotro PVP Videos l Thorfinn || r14 champ, r12 burglar- Crickhollow || r11//r9 warg Crick//Elendilmir || + other stuff

  16. #16
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    Re: QQ

    I used another thread for that Thor...

    Cas
    Viva Lotro!

  17. #17
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    Re: QQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote503 View Post
    I think the Moors has 2 gears (serious and not so serious). Moors is competitive and I think people get lost in the competition sometimes (i am guilty of it as well). When the groups are pretty even I consider this serious time, eg, a time for tactics and direction and focus fire. But when they are way unbalanced it's not so serious time, eg, push all the way up to tyrant for one creep, or mounted suicide charges into the rez circle. I think people forget to just have fun at these times. Also there haven't been many good battles recently so people are just frustrated...
    Ls
    Cas
    Well said.

    My suggestions:

    1. Give the raid/fellowship leaders 20% more renown/infamy on both sides (min group size of 4).
    Watch the groups improve.

    2. Limit levelling off pve quests in the moors to a cap of level 5. ie after level 5 the only quests that give renown/infamy are the kill peeps and take stuff quests, not the fedex or kill 4 wolves quests.

    3. Give creeps something other than destiny points that are bind on account, my suggestion: shards. Make it legitimate to collect shards on your creep to use with your freep.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Re: QQ

    Quote Originally Posted by drongo View Post
    Well said.

    My suggestions:

    1. Give the raid/fellowship leaders 20% more renown/infamy on both sides (min group size of 4).
    Watch the groups improve.
    nononononononono please god no

    Quote Originally Posted by drongo View Post
    2. Limit levelling off pve quests in the moors to a cap of level 5. ie after level 5 the only quests that give renown/infamy are the kill peeps and take stuff quests, not the fedex or kill 4 wolves quests.
    yesyesyesyesyesyes please god yes

    Quote Originally Posted by drongo View Post
    3. Give creeps something other than destiny points that are bind on account, my suggestion: shards. Make it legitimate to collect shards on your creep to use with your freep.
    what?

  19. #19

    Re: QQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferthcott View Post
    Careful, you do know we all love when Thor is aggroing himself using Typing traitline ^^

    Click the image to see where it comes from.
    Last edited by Philosomanic; Jan 17 2012 at 11:12 AM.
    [CENTER][color="#1188FF"](███████████████ THERE IS NO DEATH[COLOR=Grey]╠[U]▀‼▀▀▀▀!!!▀▀▀▀‼▀[/U]╣[/COLOR]THERE IS THE FORCE ██████████████)[/color][/CENTER]

  20. #20

    Re: QQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Philosomanic View Post
    Dacromir, it's alright, I understood you.
    Merlinros - Brandywine
    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1pDdg8Ha0A[/url]

  21. #21

    Re: QQ

    Wow, way to not give credit where it's duo - THESE AWESOME DRAWINGS ARE THE PROPERTY OF FORMENIEL :P
    *targets Form* ./cheer


    Lotro PVP Videos l Thorfinn || r14 champ, r12 burglar- Crickhollow || r11//r9 warg Crick//Elendilmir || + other stuff

  22. #22

    Re: QQ

    If you click the image, it links directly to Formeniel's blog. It's a pretty standard form of attribution. So there's the "credit where it's duo" :P

    Nonetheless, I'll go add a line at the bottom pointing that out.
    Last edited by Philosomanic; Jan 17 2012 at 11:11 AM.
    [CENTER][color="#1188FF"](███████████████ THERE IS NO DEATH[COLOR=Grey]╠[U]▀‼▀▀▀▀!!!▀▀▀▀‼▀[/U]╣[/COLOR]THERE IS THE FORCE ██████████████)[/color][/CENTER]

  23. #23

    Re: QQ

    Oregional intent was for creeps to win with numbers. Worked for a while and now it doesn't. Time to change things up. Creep heals and dps need to be on par with freeps. If the mitigation fix goes well then normalize creep health and take away infamy for quests and p2w. That way the Freep grind is offset somewhat. Other than redoing game dynamics and having creeps grind from 1-75 with same systems in place there will be no "balance"

  24. #24

    Re: QQ

    creep heals and dps will never mirror freep ones. Simple reason is their morale doesn't match up.
    Merlinros - Brandywine
    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1pDdg8Ha0A[/url]

  25. #25
    Join Date
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    737

    Re: QQ

    ^ it easily could... But that would be boring.

    with raid focus fire morale amounts become trivial.... Just like this thread!
    the pvmp forum already has enough balance discussion, don't think crickhollow needs its own section.

    The sides aren't balanced, there doesn't seem to be much of an effort to make it that way. Everyone should be informed of this so I suppose it is still worth saying. But I don't really like hearing constant whines from creeps. Yes it's a bad system but nobody is forcing us to play.

    If they wanted to improve things, playing creepside would get you something other than DP that you could use to improve your character/accounts. AFAIK you can't even get turbine points. But there was definitely a population explosion when turbine put moors gear in that was useful in PvE. If they wanted creep populations to rise a similar tactic ought to work.

 

 
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