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  1. #76
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    254

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Twitcheetwitch View Post
    As someone who almost always solos, with a few two or three man groups from time to time from within my kinship, and as someone who doesn't run raids or play any pvp, will these changes affect me in any substantial way?

    The minstrel is my favorite class in the game. Plenty of solo damage, a few good escape tricks and the morale bubble add up to a great soloing class. I'd hate to see that capability reduced in any drastic way. I thought the ROI update was a huge improvement, so here's hoping Minstrels remain as good as they are now.
    Based on what Orion posted at the beginning of this thread the only real difference is that you won't be able to buff melee damage as much as you can currently (it will be reduced by half).
    [CENTER][COLOR=#00cc00][B]Founding Member: Sapience Fan Club and Adoration Society[/B][/COLOR]
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  2. #77

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    I'd like to throw out there with the change coming to update 6 with skirmish soldiers coming on landscape. I've played around with traiting down the yellow line while soloing to get more anthem buffs, but it's harder to justify when they only apply to me. I have a lower level cappy and I love that my buffs work on my skirm soldier and makes them useful. I was wondering if we can get it looked at to have our anthems apply to skirmish soldiers. Wanted to throw this out to see if there was a reason that it is that way right now.

    Also I've heard it said that our hots are going to be scaled with update 6, is that correct?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/03202000000435527/01005/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Chile, South America
    Posts
    79

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Quote Originally Posted by JaceGaiter View Post
    I'd like to throw out there with the change coming to update 6 with skirmish soldiers coming on landscape. I've played around with traiting down the yellow line while soloing to get more anthem buffs, but it's harder to justify when they only apply to me. I have a lower level cappy and I love that my buffs work on my skirm soldier and makes them useful. I was wondering if we can get it looked at to have our anthems apply to skirmish soldiers. Wanted to throw this out to see if there was a reason that it is that way right now.

    Also I've heard it said that our hots are going to be scaled with update 6, is that correct?
    I remember that before ROI the tier 3 ballads affected NPCs, so I'll like to see that anthems affects them again with update 7 maybe. And yes, HOTs being scaled would be very nice, I think that Vigor of the Minstrel and Free People heal the same amount regardless of the level (I'm not 100% sure on this).

  4. #79

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Quote Originally Posted by bfub467 View Post
    That's an awful video to show how OP Minnies are. Not that they aren't.
    [CENTER][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0220400000008bdab/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
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  5. #80
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    France
    Posts
    749

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheart-Fury View Post
    Minstrels are light years ahead of any other freep class in terms of difficulty in fighting and winning against as a Creep (of any rank). There is just no comparison. Even champs ,who are considered very op in the moors, dont hold a candle to the minstrel class.
    Yeah, poor champs have it very hard, they have much greater mitigations than minstrels, hit harder, can autocrit their big hitter, AOE stun, can pump out more bubbling and self healing than minstrels for a good while into a fight, and sprint forever and ever.

    Or those poor burgs who can only take half a creep's health away in two hits from stealth, then proceed to lock that creep down for the other half, and only have a 80% damage absorption bubble, a +50% evade buff, the ability to shake off stuns or mezzes *and* heal *and* get another +50% evade buff, and a self heal, and debuffs, and the ability to disappear, and the ability to do it all over again shall the need arise...

    Or those poor hunters doing 2k dps out of the blue mostly spamming one button ...

    Not gonna fix the moors by nerfing minstrels ...
    [size=1]Freeps (Snowbourn): [b]Equanor (R11 MNS)[/b] - Equendil - Orlo - Equadoc - Quaolin - Oshia - Kaolin - Equaric - Equorn
    Creeps (Snowbourn): Veloch (R9 RVR) - Velrow (R10 BA) - Velkro - Oruk - Velrot - Velreth
    Author of the [url=http://tiny.cc/2zm50w]Legendary Item Planner[/url], [url=http://tiny.cc/m1m50w]Bootstrap[/url] and [url=http://tiny.cc/41m50w]Baruk[/url] plugins.[/size]

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    N. Gate, Grams
    Posts
    1,002

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Equendil View Post
    Yeah, poor champs have it very hard, they have much greater mitigations than minstrels, hit harder, can autocrit their big hitter, AOE stun, can pump out more bubbling and self healing than minstrels for a good while into a fight, and sprint forever and ever.

    Or those poor burgs who can only take half a creep's health away in two hits from stealth, then proceed to lock that creep down for the other half, and only have a 80% damage absorption bubble, a +50% evade buff, the ability to shake off stuns or mezzes *and* heal *and* get another +50% evade buff, and a self heal, and debuffs, and the ability to disappear, and the ability to do it all over again shall the need arise...

    Or those poor hunters doing 2k dps out of the blue mostly spamming one button ...

    Not gonna fix the moors by nerfing minstrels ...

    Are we playing the same game? That statement is ludicrous....





    I never said that other freep classes were not op. Minstrels are in a world of their own though. Even with a penalty to healing in Warspeech in the moors, the Minstrel class would still be very strong.
    Ridduk R14 WL
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  7. #82
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    France
    Posts
    749

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheart-Fury View Post
    Are we playing the same game? That statement is ludicrous....
    Champs can pop what, ~10k worth of bubbles and heals in quick succession, something a minstrel in warspeech using their 2k bubble, chord of salvation and heals over time take a little while to reach, *and* that will last a champion quite a bit longer thanks to higher mitigations. What make minstrels so annoying is they can keep doing it where a champion will *eventually* run dry (then again, that's the point at which they typically sprint away not to be seen again for a couple minutes so *shrug*, at least minstrels die if you pile on them, and typically die pretty fast as their healing over time becomes irrelevant then).

    I never said that other freep classes were not op. Minstrels are in a world of their own though. Even with a penalty to healing in Warspeech in the moors, the Minstrel class would still be very strong.
    Yeah well I disagree with that. Your perspective as a warleader might be different from mine, warleaders have a bit of range, tactical damage, and typically win by attrition through self healing, I mainly play a reaver, got no range, can't go through avoidances buffs, and playing war of attrition is not an option. I'm not amused by the damage/survivability combination of *any* freep class, and since we were speaking of champions, decently well geared up and played champions will beat my reaver without using any bubble/heal, not a chance a minstrel would do that since RoI.

    Which brings me to the second statement, there's a fine balance here, too much healing and we have the current situation, too little and minstrels end up being nearly as squishy as rune-keepers but with a lower kiting potential and considerably lower potential for burst damage (relying on luck ain't quite as good as +30% crit rate from Perfect Imagery and higher base damage...). I've read quite a lot of 'suggestions' around the forums for reverting war-speech back to what it was before RoI (essentially: no self healing, tail duration for toggle off), ain't gonna work so great without the old 30/45s Anthem of War, 2x power bubble and comparatively higher creep damage (due to finesse, battleground promotions, the option of buying skills through the store, and various enhancements such as BAs got).
    Last edited by Equendil; Feb 25 2012 at 12:37 PM.
    [size=1]Freeps (Snowbourn): [b]Equanor (R11 MNS)[/b] - Equendil - Orlo - Equadoc - Quaolin - Oshia - Kaolin - Equaric - Equorn
    Creeps (Snowbourn): Veloch (R9 RVR) - Velrow (R10 BA) - Velkro - Oruk - Velrot - Velreth
    Author of the [url=http://tiny.cc/2zm50w]Legendary Item Planner[/url], [url=http://tiny.cc/m1m50w]Bootstrap[/url] and [url=http://tiny.cc/41m50w]Baruk[/url] plugins.[/size]

  8. #83

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Champs are pretty comparable to Minnies, in terms of raw OP-dness. That is all contingent upon them having Sprint up, though.
    [CENTER][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0220400000008bdab/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
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  9. #84
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    3

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Haha, my favourite quote I saw recently was:

    "When did you ever see a minstrel in any of the movies or any of the books, run in, destroy half of mordor and run out again whilst plucking away on their harp strings?!"

    At least the idea of a champ doing that kind of fits in with the story. How the hell did Minstrels end up filling that role?

    Although, I'm starting to think that maybe Gandalf was a closet minstrel!

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    32

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    First of all, the new line yellow minstrel traits that created orion is great, really great. I think it's a great alternative to blue traits, I think it's even better, if only in the hands of minstrels "pros" and wanting to have a class much more complex and useful. Orion thank you very much. The nerf the anthem of war is just a sample of the new power of the minstrel. I do not like moving from a +20% melee damage to +10%, but I understand the decision.


    But the yellow line of traits can be improved, there is much useless .... by parts:

    Herald Strike / Noble Cause: This is the most useless. The minstrel is not a melee classe. It's tactical, distance hits. Nobody uses that skill if not to remove corruption. Why waste so many traits and buffs with this skill?!!

    Harmony: It has nothing to improve the "stance of healing". To begin let's compare the main anthem -> -20% power cost anthem not improve anything at -25 Induction time and 10% outgoing healing. Is laughable. Anthem of the third Age (Harmony) is not useful, can not compete with others.
    The bonus of Harmony stance ... I've said before, the herald strike is not a major skill and never will be, to pretend that the minstrel heal the raid hitting melee makes no sense. Harmony should be a stance to speed buffs and anthems. I think.


    Coda effects: All seem perfect, but there are 2 that I think are incorrect.
    Anthem of prowess Coda effect, why he wants a minstrel the noble cause? at this rate I will hate the herald strike hehehe ...
    Anthem of the third Age (harmony) is simply the worst effect of the coda in an anthem. Horrible.


    Some ideas that come to mind to improve the Minstrel and Anthems, without making overpower the class.


    -Harmony: -10% power cost anthem, Cry of Chorus-90s cooldown, +5 seconds durantion anthem (you could remove the bonus 5-piece sets and put in place some improvements anthem), +5 seconds more in coda effects. Major ballad is a ballad healing. ¿?

    -Anthem of Third Age (harmony) with a power anthem cost -20%, -25% induction time, +200 in-combatpower regen. And Coda will reaply an Inspire Fellows free without induction. ¿?

    -Anthem of Prowess Coda-effect: Apply a -10% incoming damage to the fellow last 10seconds. ¿?

    -Coda of Resonance is not a cry, not a dps skill. You could add a hot 10 seconds like the Cry of the Valar.

    - Anthem of War legacy, 5% to all damages.

    -Anthem of composure legacy, both buffs at the same legacy.



    Traits:
    -Heralded Resolve: Coda of Resonance +10% healing, +25% healing effect on coda in anthem of free people and Cry of the Valar. ¿?

    -Heralded Saviour: -50% power cost Tale (a very underrated trait above) ¿?

    -Battle-Hymn-: Call to greatness for all the fellow (please!). ¿?

    -Lyrics of brabery: the "tactical defense" and "resistance defense" are added to the anthem composure. ¿?


    -Bonus -5 trait set: "Master of Tales" has never managed to be a useful trait, a shame. A good idea would be to eliminate "tale of heroism and warden" and "Tale of frost and flame battle" and replace them with "MASTER OF ANTHEMS".

    Master of Anthems legendary trait =
    "+1500 Armor valoue / +1 Hope / +500 evade" to anthem of prowess.
    "-5% Healing threat" to anthem of compassion.
    "Vitality +20 / +20 will / fate +40 / +250 morale-regen" to anthem of free peoples.
    "+500 Frost-fire defense / +1000 to Resistances" in anthem of composure.


    ¿?


    I suppose that Orion has more work to do than read my proposals. They are simple things that could be applied or not, the important thing is that the minstrel now is very funny, pro, and useful, but also much improved.
    Since the update came out I have been a total fan anthems and yellow traits, but always I have the feeling that the changes have not come to the end. Please Orion, completed the changes, the anthems have to be a real alternative and reliable.

    PS: Sorry for the grammar.

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Central Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    1,873

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Binidj View Post
    Any PvMP balance should be done either on a Moors-specific basis or to the Creep classes. PvE abilities should never be adjusted because of PvMP considerations; I've seen that happen in other, more PvP-orientated, games and it (a) never worked and (b) made the PvE side of the games incredibly frustrating to play.

    Minstrels may well be over-powered in PvMP play at the moment (I don't know, I have zero interest in that part of the game) but it does not follow that their PvE (which is the main focus of this game) abilities should be reduced to convenience some disgruntled Orcs. As has been said elsewhere, buff the Creeps or apply a zone-debuff to Minstrels, leave the rest of the world properly balanced please.

    As far as the latest "nerf", oh please get over yourselves; the class has seen massive buffing since RoI and it's quite reasonable to expect some fine-tuning further down the line. The fact remains that as a class the Minstrel is in great shape, especially now the Coda issue is being addressed. Also this "nerf" paves the way for a potential unified Legacy in the future, which is fantastic news from anyone's point of view.
    ^^ this plus rep

    I'm not high enough to endgame but it is nice, post ROI, to be able to solo on level content (and a bit above) and level at the same rate as hunters, champs, etc. always have been able to, instead of hiding from groups of 2-3 mobs and taking forever to fear, kite, soothe and kill them eventually and oh so slowly. I still solo more than i'd really like but since ROI, it's no longer a chore. I love my minstrel as a healer (no more being told 'You, just spam BC.' by know it all hunters ). Even the so called 'nerf' is going to leave me able to play any of the the 3 minstrel roles happily.

    Fix PvP by improving MP. This constant calling for nerfing minstrels in any minstrel thread from a few creeps is overkill. It just makes me want to trait red and try the moors and see how uber i could be (just joking)
    [COLOR="#DDA0DD"][CENTER][B]Peralda[/B] - Minstrel - 100 - The Numenorean Guard - Landroval~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[B]Yvandriel[/B] - Minstrel - 100 - Extraordinary Adventurers' League - Laurelin[/CENTER][/COLOR][COLOR="#EE82EE"][CENTER]And the minstrel sang to them……”and they passed in thought out to regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness.”[/CENTER][/COLOR]

 

 
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