Yes its not the plugin - look at your buff icons - they are there. The plugin just reads them and shows them in a larger version.
Yes its not the plugin - look at your buff icons - they are there. The plugin just reads them and shows them in a larger version.
kind of in the wrong direction with these changes.
You could look at it this way. You have more than 6 classes. that means you are going to have mixed set ups and some are going to be better than others.
Right now, Champs, Burgs, Mini work well together as a DPS unit. More so before you gave everyone the bonus from the burgs CD and mini buffs.
Idealy it would be nice to have a second Core DPS unit "ideal group", made up of RK, Hunters, LM based around fire and or light damage. Maybe give the RK the ability to increase fire damage wile healing. 10%-15% more fire damage would be ~ to the 20% melee damage the minis can add.
now when you desighn future raids you have 2 "ideal group units" to design encounters for. Class mix would be more prevelent and people may be more happy with where they fit. I would also change hunnter damage type tactical from physical.
Just a difernt perspective.
It was getting wearisome having to rebuff my major ballads every time the DPS mini wanted to boost their damage. However I don't think my kin's Champs are gonna be happy with the Anthem of War nerf. Sigh ... I get enough guff from the Hobbit jokes.
"I have my fears, but they do not have me." ... "And the monster I was so afraid of, lies curled up on the floor."
-Peter Gabriel- "Darkness"
Ignorance is bestowed on us at birth, but we don't have to keep it.
-Lorin Fast- "Random ramblings"
Will the Crafts on the sigs ever get updated?
Yo Orion, thanks for getting the Coda bug fixed this patch. Props dogg.
Adaaon (Minstrel), Gwydionn (Hunter), Tarrann (Burglar)
I'd like to add that I too would like to see all Anthem of War buffs in one legacy now that they are all equalized and also see that it is a minor legacy. As it stand now mintrels have to have two books and at least one of them has to have all major legacies on it. Since all of the practical and expected to have legacies are all in the major legacy pool.
But to your other point, I also have two other books, one for DPS/Anthem of War buffs, and one for Anthem of Composure buffs. The second one is a not-that-necessary luxury.
Last edited by CurtMonash; Jan 18 2012 at 01:20 AM.
Please don't mess with healing output when in different stances -- this is not the approach for balance. I'm not sure why folks are screaming for this -- actually I'm not sure they are, just a few voices at most.
Balance in PvMP can be accomplished by tweaking the monster classes. This is ideal as it doesn't effect PvE. Monster classes suffer from being horribly inept at low ranks, and super powerful at high ranks. The grind to get up to high rank is extreme imho. If people are basing their desire for freep nerfs by their R3 monster experiences then they are lacking the experience to make "balance" judgements.
In addition, Warspeech already has reduced healing in the form of:
1. Traiting Red instead of Blue (-15% outgoing right there)
2. Coda is damage instead of heal
3. All ballads are damage instead of 2 damage / 1 heal.
3. Heals are self only
If you've tried to solo a R9 BA with your minstrel you'll see reduced healing is not necessary. If you're referring to low rank creeps, then this discussion is moot because low rank creeps can't solo anything (emphasis on ANYTHING).
Finally there's no reason to single out the minstrel here as other freep classes are equally as challenging to creeps (or even more so). Consider the burg which is nearly impossible to kill 1-vs-1. Hunters and RKs are killing machines -- I've been one-shotted (or nearly so) by epic conclusion and heart-seeker numerous times. Champs have sprint, two bubbles, and a couple AoE horn stuns.
Last edited by lotrojim; Jan 18 2012 at 03:25 PM.
Theres just no question minstrels need some sort of balance restored to them in the moors. Any honest minstrel will admit it. Any who don't are just trying not to make it obvious so they don't lose god mode.
A decent (not fully decked out) minstrel can kill anything and anyone, regardless of creep rank. The is not true of other freep classes.
A decent minstrel can kill 3 rank 6+ creeps fairly comfortably.
3 minstrels together are just indestructable unless theres a group of 10+ creeps.
I just don't think that should be possible for something that is supposed to first and foremost be a healing class, regardless of their stance.
I guess the thing is finding a way to restore a little balance without ruining PvE. I guess the obvious route would be to pick one of the following:
-A reduction in self-healing whilst using war-speech
-A reduction in damage output whilst using war-speech
-A large increase to power cost of healing whilst using war-speech
I think the last one would keep most people fairly happy. It would (hopefully) stop the scenario of a minstrel being able to comfortably solo groups of creeps.
I entered Moors yesterday for the first time on my Mini, with crafted gear/jewellery + some from the reputation vendors.
Maybe 2 minutes after a R11 creep came running after me.
First thing that crossed my mind was smth. like - ''Oh ####'' - but after 15 seconds in combat I just started laughing at myself, rofl (although it was close, I had to drop warspeech to use the legendary heal).
And he was ranged. And I had never PvPed before.
I dont think that minnis need their healing nerfed at all. I understand that lower ranked creeps have a hard time killing minnis, but then again....I trudged my minni all the way up to 75. If a creep isn't willing to put some time and effort into their toon why should I get hit with the nerf bat? I am not saying 'learn to play' cause that just isn't the case, it takes time to build a character whether you are freep or creep. I surely cannot take on 3 r6 creeps at once so I guess I am not a decent minni, but then again I see minnis defeated all the time in the moors. I don't see a miini keeled over defeated who had most of their power pool depleted when they dropped as OP and needing of healing nerfs and/or power cost increases. And surely PVE should not suffer for PVP opinions....
Just my 2c
I challenge any mini who doesnt seem themselves as mind boggling god mode, to go roll a creep, spend double the /play time to get them to be able to even compete (6-8 on some classes and you start feeling better) and go against any mini, even minis who you wouldnt allow to heal with a ten foot pole becuase , frankly they cant even follow simple direcations.
You cannot, will not beat any mini, unless they are mind numbing, the most terrible player on the plant. This is what OP is considered. The only classes who have a chance are VERY high ranks, with better dps, which limits it to a VERY small percantage of players. So this basically makes minis God mode.
I agree, you CAN balance moors without touching the mini, here is a good example. The reason I CANT compete with my warleader, has nothing to do with the way the mini is built , its becuase of my terrible dps, lack of complete rotation of skills (something the mini "used" to have to deal with before time reduction of call of wizards and coda" and power. OF Those three , the biggest reason I cant compete, is my power pool. I simply run out of power. A mini can go to the moors with 8k power. I can only stack 3k at best. ITs just FAR too much of a diffrence to make up for in pots, btw the mini can be potting at the same rate, or restore own power on demand.
If they doubled my power and gave me a better rotation, like one more shout and upped my dps a small percantage, without me needed to nerf mitagations or something. It would probably at least give my warleader a chance.
Other then them fixing creeps to compete, they need to start issuing some MOORS only nerfs to balance something out.
75's: Mevelvith (HNT), Carfail (LM), Anglegas (CHN), Silverwinds (RK), Prada (Burg)
SeaofStars(WD) Upnext: 12 CPT Lanmoir
Sorry N8R8R, it has nothing to do with low rank creeps. Minstrals destroy _everything_ in sight regardless of rank. You can try and deny it all you want, but anyone who has played Moors on either side knows its the truth.
silverkelt, true, you can fix moors by overhauling every creep class, but thats a pretty huge task. And I'm sure that would open up a whole new round of people complaining that this class is unbalanced, that one is unbalanced etc.
The easiest and most logical fix is just to bring the overpowered class back slightly in line with the rest of the freeps / creeps. It doesn't have to be a huge nerf, just something that brings them back to a (more) level playing field.
Please don't nerf minis no more.Our coda has been nerfed already.I don't give a #### about what you do in moors.This game is PVE.
Minstrels are light years ahead of any other freep class in terms of difficulty in fighting and winning against as a Creep (of any rank). There is just no comparison. Even champs ,who are considered very op in the moors, dont hold a candle to the minstrel class.
A Moors specific penalty to Warspeech self healing output really needs to be implemented to bring Minstrels down a notch.
Ridduk R14 WL
Minstrels: Heal your group in Warspeech
Also it doesn't really make sense. As unfortunately has been pointed out at length in this tread (when the nerf bat is out, never mention any other skill that is so much more powerful - it will be the next one!), AoW is not really a big deal anymore. So we can conclude that either:
a) this nerf comes in as said to give another class a 10% melee buff - or maybe even 10% on all damage types - unfortunately this will be of no consequence with everybody running at 200%+ and certainly will not win wardens a place in groups...
b) the nerf comes in because it was deemed the DPS races in Orthanc T2 Challenges are too easy as they are and we must decrease DPS in order to... not really shure here - is there DPS scrolls/potions/whatnot available in the store?
c) the nerf comes in because sb was crying "Nerf the Minis" so loudly it could not be ignored any more - in that case we have to thank Orion for choosing the mildest nerv possible although I have to say that I don't think PvP should lead to PvE changes - ever! - and also it will not fix WS minis being very OP in the moors.
And yes, the original post gains bonus points for rudeness by announcing this without mentioning an ETA for fixes for nasty bugs like the broken coda or the wrong german/french translations - the latter are only missing for half a year now and there must be hundreds of bug reports due to that.
I would like to see the Harmony Major Ballad heal instead of damage...in Harmony you're healing not DPSing. It makes sense in Warspeech, but not in Harmony; I think it makes the stance feel a bit strange.
yea minis arnt OP?
Any PvMP balance should be done either on a Moors-specific basis or to the Creep classes. PvE abilities should never be adjusted because of PvMP considerations; I've seen that happen in other, more PvP-orientated, games and it (a) never worked and (b) made the PvE side of the games incredibly frustrating to play.
Minstrels may well be over-powered in PvMP play at the moment (I don't know, I have zero interest in that part of the game) but it does not follow that their PvE (which is the main focus of this game) abilities should be reduced to convenience some disgruntled Orcs. As has been said elsewhere, buff the Creeps or apply a zone-debuff to Minstrels, leave the rest of the world properly balanced please.
As far as the latest "nerf", oh please get over yourselves; the class has seen massive buffing since RoI and it's quite reasonable to expect some fine-tuning further down the line. The fact remains that as a class the Minstrel is in great shape, especially now the Coda issue is being addressed. Also this "nerf" paves the way for a potential unified Legacy in the future, which is fantastic news from anyone's point of view.
[FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][COLOR="#FFD700"][SIZE=3][I]"Goddess of song, teach me the story of a hero"[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]
[center]"Accept the things to which fate binds you, and love the people with whom fate brings you together, but do so with all your heart." - Marcus Aelius Aurelius [/center]
As someone who almost always solos, with a few two or three man groups from time to time from within my kinship, and as someone who doesn't run raids or play any pvp, will these changes affect me in any substantial way?
The minstrel is my favorite class in the game. Plenty of solo damage, a few good escape tricks and the morale bubble add up to a great soloing class. I'd hate to see that capability reduced in any drastic way. I thought the ROI update was a huge improvement, so here's hoping Minstrels remain as good as they are now.
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