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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    954

    Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    I am going to keep this thread alive for a while and make adjustments as they potentially arise. The first changes, are negative ones, a little.

    • The Fellowship Bonus granted by Anthem of War will be reduced to +5% for each of the damage bonuses, Melee, Ranged and Tactical. This is being done to allow for other classes to have more room to provide bonuses to the fellowship. The bonus provided to the Minstrel will remain the same.
    • The Legacy Bonuses affecting each buff aspect of Anthem of War will also be reduced to half percentage steps allowing for an extra bonus of 5% to be given to each of Melee, Ranged and Tactical damages.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Berlin
    Posts
    53

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Nice, Thanks - First things first
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    148

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Hmmm. Kinda drastic news for my wonderfully crafted buffing book.

    My hunter looks forward to being able to buff the fellowship instead.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    126

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Any chance of getting the coda bug fixed? It seems to me this a lot more important than tweaking anthems.
    Last edited by DarvaI; Jan 11 2012 at 10:48 AM.

  5. #5

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    so is the good news that none of our buffs will be removed from the fellowship when we use our coda?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0820700000001e2df/01002/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  6. #6

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Silence still removing our tales, love to see that get changed. Hate having to do an induction everytime it happens.

  7. #7

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    I can't quibble with the Ballad of War nerf. I always thought it was incredibly powerful and gave undue demand weight to Mins healers over RKs.

    However, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make Harmony viable again by correcting what many believe to be a bug (based on the original design discussion), namely: Coda SHOULD NOT remove non-Minstrel Anthem buffs. Please, please, please. Okay, now I'm just a pathetic beggar, but I loved how Harmony played, but with the bug I just can't justify using it over Melody's Anthem of the Third Age.
    Adaaon (Minstrel), Gwydionn (Hunter), Tarrann (Burglar)
    [url]http://thenoldor.guildlaunch.com[/url]

  8. #8

    AW: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    just to make sure:

    The skill itself:
    today melee damage is +10% - the ranged and tactical is already 5%

    On legacies:
    The maxed legacy for melee is +10% - the ranged and tactical ones are already 5%

    This means only melee damage is reduced for the fellowship but if we go into melee we still get both 10%? The rest stays like it is today?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    199

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    I dont understand how a downward adjustment to War Anthem gives other classes more room...?

    There is no other competing buffing class that the Minstrel excludes..

    Also, what happens to these legacies grade? Do you still need 2 major 1 minor?



    These really should all be Minor Legacies now if you haven't fixed that too.


    .
    Last edited by L_Loomis; Jan 11 2012 at 11:51 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    243

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Just out of curiosity why was the buff for melee 10% anyway? I always found it odd that ranged and tac were 5% and melee was 10%. Now, that it is being changed, I would love to know what the original reason was. There had to have been one.

    --Elleby
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b0000001a27a4/01004/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ontario, California
    Posts
    5,589

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Quote Originally Posted by L_Loomis View Post
    I dont understand how a downward adjustment to War Anthem gives other classes more room...?

    There is no other competing buffing class that the Minstrel excludes..

    Also, what happens to these legacies grade? Do you still need 2 major 1 minor?

    These really should all be minors now if you haven't fixed that too.
    I agree with this. Overall I am pretty indifferent to the downward adjustment, however, either all three +damage legacies need to be moved to minor legacies or at the very least move melee to a minor legacy now.

    What class is going to be adding +damage% buffing besides us?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000000c08ff/signature.png]Winterfell[/charsig]

    For My BW Brethren or Those Who Love Stick Figures [url=http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=322130] 3 Years of Stick Art [/url]
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  12. #12

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Quote Originally Posted by L_Loomis View Post
    I dont understand how a downward adjustment to War Anthem gives other classes more room...?

    There is no other competing buffing class that the Minstrel excludes..

    Also, what happens to these legacies grade? Do you still need 2 major 1 minor?



    These really should all be Minor Legacies now if you haven't fixed that too.


    .
    I am guessing it's because the Melee buff is considered too powerful when combined with Captain buffs???

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    954

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Interim patches between now and U6 should fix the Coda Bug.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    9,844

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterfell View Post
    I agree with this. Overall I am pretty indifferent to the downward adjustment, however, either all three +damage legacies need to be moved to minor legacies or at the very least move melee to a minor legacy now.

    What class is going to be adding +damage% buffing besides us?
    I don't think he was referring to minstrels, but rather the selection of melee classes over ranged/tactical because of the greater damage bonus offered by minstrels. Of course, BoW used to be our only damage buffing skill, and was only for melee damage. This is just normalizing things, and I'm surprised it took them this long to do it.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000019caef/signature.png]Nerves[/charsig]

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Amsterdam in body, Stockholm in spirit
    Posts
    537

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzviden View Post
    Just out of curiosity why was the buff for melee 10% anyway? I always found it odd that ranged and tac were 5% and melee was 10%. Now, that it is being changed, I would love to know what the original reason was. There had to have been one.

    --Elleby
    When the Minstrel was created, "Ballad of War" as it was called back then was the only damage buff the class had, and it was +10%.

    With Moria, the legacy to increase the damage bonus by 1-10% was introduced.

    With Echoes of the Dead (I believe, don't quote me on that though), damage buffs were added to Ballad of Flame and Ballad of Unshakable Will (which was renamed to Ballad of Composure) to make them more desirable to play in fights where Fire Mitigation and Fear Resistance (which is what those two ballads did) wasn't of any use. However, the damage buffs (and the corresponding legacies) had to be lesser than that of Ballad of War, to keep the overall strength of the tier three ballads equal(ish).

    When the damage buffs from the old tier three ballads were merged into Anthem of War, the melee damage buff value was likely kept to prevent players viewing the change as a nerf, and buffing the tactical/ranged buffs to the same level would've made the anthem too strong.

    Hope that explains it. :)


    P.S. For what it's worth, I can't say I disagree with the change, even though I main a Champion and enjoy the buff a lot as it is. It will however mean that Anthem of Prowess is nearly guaranteed to be the strongest DPS buff available to Minstrels, while at the same time being a very nice defensive buff as well. Don't know if it's intended to be so strong by comparison (please don't nerf the -attack duration component of it though! :p).
    [COLOR=#8b4513][B]Fredecar [/B][/COLOR]- Burglar[SIZE=1] ~ [I]Original Challenger of Saruman[/I][/SIZE]
    [B][COLOR=#daa520]Fingolwë [/COLOR][/B]- Champion[SIZE=1] ~ [I]Challenger of Gortheron[/I][/SIZE]
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  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    414

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Interim patches between now and U6 should fix the Coda Bug.
    When's update six tenatively? Spring? Late winter?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    199

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Yes thats absolutely right... and I dont disagree either I mean its Captains buffs anyways that melee rave about... never had Anthem War raved about not even once. But it makes no sense to have one out of line with the others on our Anthem.

    Anthem Prowress is now #2 in queue (Behind 3rd age of course).

    Do we still seriously need a FIVE legacy buffbook? Swapping LIs is not that fun, would be nice if we could just get the War and Composure ones each rolled into 1 legacy, ideally.

  18. #18

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Would really like to see all dmg buffs (melee, ranged, tact) rolled into 1 legacy, now that they've been normalized. Please? Pretty please? with sugar on top?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    797

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Interim patches between now and U6 should fix the Coda Bug.
    And these will be when? Please?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ontario, California
    Posts
    5,589

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Quote Originally Posted by geoboy View Post
    I don't think he was referring to minstrels, but rather the selection of melee classes over ranged/tactical because of the greater damage bonus offered by minstrels. Of course, BoW used to be our only damage buffing skill, and was only for melee damage. This is just normalizing things, and I'm surprised it took them this long to do it.
    This is being done to allow for other classes to have more room to provide bonuses to the fellowship.
    This quote only makes sense if another class is going to get something that they do not currently have which is going to increase melee damage. It seems like leaving the additional 10% on top of whatever the future buff(s) from another class would be "game-breaking" and hence the need for a tweaking. I don't think melee being chosen over ranged has any direct correlation.

    Normalization makes sense, but honestly I am not surprized it took this long because we still have a Melee passive. When that is finally changed to a tactic, I will be "surprized" it took them "this long."
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000000c08ff/signature.png]Winterfell[/charsig]

    For My BW Brethren or Those Who Love Stick Figures [url=http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=322130] 3 Years of Stick Art [/url]
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  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Eisenberge
    Posts
    4,540

    AW: Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Interim patches between now and U6 should fix the Coda Bug.
    Will this patch the problems with the outdated German translations remove? Tooltips show still such things as "Ballad Tier 1 and 2" (instead of minor and perfect), "Minstrels can wear medium armor" (should be "+20% Armor"), "+ duration war speech terminal effect" (should be "+ duration of hymns" to be) and many more. Bugreports were without success since 3 months.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    126

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Interim patches between now and U6 should fix the Coda Bug.
    Thank you for the update! Minstrels everywhere will rejoice

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    954

    Re: AW: Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Thodorin View Post
    Will this patch the problems with the outdated German translations remove? Tooltips show still such things as "Ballad Tier 1 and 2" (instead of minor and perfect), "Minstrels can wear medium armor" (should be "+20% Armor"), "+ duration war speech terminal effect" (should be "+ duration of hymns" to be) and many more. Bugreports were without success since 3 months.
    I honestly have no idea. Translation is something that I am not directly involved in, I have brought this up, and will do so again.

  24. #24

    Unhappy AW: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    So the Anthem of War gets nerfed again
    With Rise of Isengard all offence increased from about 20% to 100%. Before the Ballad of War gave an abolute increase of 20% to a character with 20% melee offence which is equal to a relative increase of 16,7% in damage. Now the Anthem of War still gives 20% absolute increase but a character with 100% melee offence only gains a relative increase of 10% in damage. So with the new offence ratings, the Anthem of War lost about 40% of its effect. (This is also true for To Arms, Fight On, Continuous Blood Rage, Stance:Strength, Overpower and others with their respective values).
    Now as I understand we will get an Anthem of War which provides 10% absolute bonus damage which is 5% relative bonus damage (for characters with 100% offence and even less while more buffs are present) IF we invest in 3 legacies on a songbook (I usually swap in a buffbook for this). If we don't invest in those legacies we can increase the damage relatively by only about 2,5%.
    In contrast the Anthem of Prowess gives -10% attack duration ADDITIONALLY to some armour and evade ratings which equals out to more than 10% relative bonus damage as long as there are no cooldowns or inductions interfering and WITHOUT the need for 3 legacies on a buffbook.
    I'd rather like a buff for all those skills mentioned above which lost in efficiency with that huge increase in offence ratings of RoI than nerfing them even more.
    Orion you did a great job with the champion and minstrel update, with the revamp of the Lone-Lands and Garth Agarwen, you will hopefully be able to fix wardens and probably lots of things I do not know.
    I have great confidence that you understand what I am trying to explain and hope that you might change your mind about those changes.
    Last edited by Thruili; Jan 11 2012 at 03:18 PM.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    93

    Re: Small Change(s) coming with Update 6

    I wonder how this will change aggro control for melee classes, now that the buffs will be equal. I always thought they kept the melee bonus higher to help with that.

    I would still like to see a change to SoS to make it fellowship wide. It would give us a reason to want the new raid armor.
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