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  1. #1

    Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    I'd like to know who would be interested in joining a semi-PUG run of Draigoch, probably the following weekend Sat/Sun evening unless something comes up(10th-11th) or this weekend if pieces magically fall into place. I've noticed PUGs for the raid either failing to form or simply not succeeding and it's unfortunate since the raid is certainly within the capabilities of a decent PUG(the same was not true of OD T2 and is unlikely to be true of Isen T2, though T1 of each should be). The goal is to get people involved who will be able to lead PUGs of their own in turn, hopefully making the raid a bit more accessible to the general public of DD. But I obviously don't PUG very often since my locks are needed by my kin, so I'm not sure who those people would be.

    If this happens I'll be leading the run and we'll have two other Ainur members along, hopefully covering main tank/main healer/main burglar responsibilities to provide a bit of insurance. I'm not yet sure whether we'll temporarily allow use of our vent or if we'll use in-game voice or perhaps a neutral vent. Start time would be in the 7-9 EST range.

    We'd be looking for people who meet all or most of the following criteria:

    • Must be Level 75, obviously.
    • Must be able to hear voice chat and follow simple instruction. May need to utilize Ventrilo.
    • Should have 4pc Draig/PvMP set or comparable and other decent gear. We want any issues to stem purely from lack of execution, not lack of gear.
    • High rank physical mitigation virtues and prepared with consumables a bonus.
    • Should read what information is available before the raid to have some idea going in. This thread is a good place to start though it has a few things wrong.
    • Should not be part of a kinship that has cleared Draigoch, or should not have personally cleared Draigoch, aside from the few support players I bring along. This is to maximize the number with new knowledge.
    • Ideally we want people who will in turn look to lead PUGs on a more regular basis and pass their knowledge along, since I don't have plans to do this with regularity, hence the bigger trickle down the better.
    • Obviously we need some semblance of a sensible class composition, but it's not wholly rigid.


    So yeah, let me know if there's interest in this. If there ends up being a lot of interest I can't guarantee everyone can be incorporated, but like I said my goal is to incorporate those who can lead their own runs, which if it works out will eventually get everyone interested involved. Obviously we can't make any guarantees about success or lack of bugs. Can't guarantee it'll happen either yet, been very busy of late so just gauging interest right now.

    Running List of Interested Players

    Astarielle, Rune-keeper, Officer of Explorers of Middle Earth
    Jimli, Hunter, Officer of Hope is Kindled - Attended 12/10/11 Run
    Ai, Lore-master, Officer of Knights of MiddleEarth - Attended 12/10/11 Run
    Iarallag, Champion, Officer of Knights of MiddleEarth - Attended 12/10/11 Run
    Odallin, Champion, Member of Knights of MiddleEarth - Attended 12/10/11 Run
    Anessen, Burglar, Leader of Knights of the White Cross - Attended 12/10/11 Run
    Lunelleth, Hunter, Officer of Knights of the White Cross - Attended 12/10/11 Run
    Gairdor, Guardian, Officer of Knights of the White Cross
    Firahn, Hunter, Leader of Rider's of Helms Deep
    Glorne, Rune-keeper, Officer of Sons of the Seven Fathers - Attended 12/10/11 Run
    Stocky, Rune-keeper, Officer of The Kindred - Attended 12/10/11 Run
    Peanric, Captain, Officer of The Kindred
    Haveblue, Guardian, Officer of The Kindred
    Faulks, Minstrel, Noob

    (Offered as potential support playersonnel)
    Borken, Rune-keeper/Champion/Guardian
    Edlorthar, Guardian
    Capitao, Captain
    Erlilda, Minstrel
    Toa, Burglar/Warden
    Dairren, Captain
    Last edited by Jacbo; Dec 10 2011 at 11:11 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    Volunteering my services to main tank it so you can run the rest of the raid without having to worry about me.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    +rep

    Wish you guys good luck with anyone you get. Unfortunately, we'll probably be running it with kin at the same time, and even if we don't I've already done it.

    Anyway, feel free to contact me if needed. I can stay healing the tanks, never did it DPSing.
    VILYA: Capitao-1 r12 Captain | Dwalfin r6 Minstrel | Wuulff r8 Warg | Kruusher r11 Reaver | Creepitao r7 WL

  4. #4

    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    I'd be interested in that. I had contemplated trying to lead a PUG myself even though I've never done Draigoch. I've read several guides and I figured the worst that would happen is I'd spend a few hours playing a game I enjoy and I'd have a few repair bills :P If I could run it first with somebody who knows what they're doing that'd be even better. It seems like it was intended to be very PUG-friendly so I'm quite surprised that I haven't seen any forming. Thanks for throwing the idea around.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    I would be interested in a Sunday run. What timezone are we talking about?

    My kin has too few lvl 75's to do a kin run, so we won't be doing it for awhile yet. PUG is my only option. Might be able to bring some of my kin though.

  6. #6
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    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    I, too, would like to lend my tanking and burglar services on this behalf. I have a kin run tomorrow (Friday, 02DEC11), so depending whether my burg or warden goes will determine which can be any use then.

    For Draigoch PUGs that I will try to start running, I will be adhering to Jacbo's outline above.
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  7. #7

    Thumbs up Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    +rep for this, Jac, and count me in. I am eager to get in there and learn the rest of the raid precisely because I've wanted to be able to lead and teach PUGs through it.

    Pre-reqs are good. I can serve in a back-up Burglar role and have some experience as primary Burg. I do want to get rest of the FMs in my fellowship skills tab so that I can effectively lead in the future (if it works out for me to go and be in that group).

    I'm available this Saturday and Sunday as well as next Saturday evening. (Next Sunday is shot.) Personally I hope the pieces magically fall together for this weekend as U5 is drawing nigh, and that will lessen the possibilities for events like this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by EvvPlayer View Post
    What timezone are we talking about?
    OP says start time will be between 7-9pm Eastern Standard Time (translates to 4-6pm Pacific).
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  8. #8
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    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    I'm also interested.
    Mains - Sampaguita 100 hobbit mini & Meggie - 100 captain. Army of alts: Lunelleth - 91 hunter/Cwenhild - 62 champ/Euraweth - 58 LM/Eadolwyn - 53 warden/Cinnamum - 30 burg/Ajuga - 26 guard/Idhreneth - 24 RK/Samieth - 6 beorning and Solveij the Pacifist (til she gets drunk) - 71 RK.

  9. #9
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    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    Volunteering mini services if 4.5k health is enough... course work is getting weird so i dont know if i'd be around or not... waiting to hear back when the person to replace me is in so I can let my damn knee heal.

    CURSE YOU PATELLA TENDON INJURIES!
    Last edited by Hiding; Dec 01 2011 at 04:22 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0d21601000007fc3f/signature.png]Healzrus[/charsig]

  10. #10

    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    I was actually part of several of the failed PUGs this week (I was at least part of the reason the group Wednesday failed, but the rest weren't my doing), and have still not finished the entire run. Wednesday's failure was partly my fault, because I did not know what to do on the last phase, and was the only person who knew the area well enough for the first 2 phases (at least I was the only one who volunteered to lead the DPS group when asked, and I did say that I did not know where to go in the third phase before we started), so I ended up leading and healing the DPS/conjunction group, and either no one on voice knew, or assumed I knew where to go for the last part .
    If I fail to complete it this weekend (I have a run scheduled with a joint group between my kin and Dark of the Moon for Saturday afternoon, but I'm not sure whether anyone who is going has actually managed to finish the third part), I would be interested in learning the third phase. As of Wednesday night I have all 12 fms, 20+ hours invested on this raid this week (13 on Sat/Sun alone), and far more patience than most people I've met, yet still have been unable to get myself a teal LI, partly because learning to kill this dragon takes a lot more patience than most people have, and almost every person I've run with who has completed it gets either a tank or healer who hasn't run it all the way through, didn't really explain some parts well, or left before the group could finish (though with both a warning that he needed to go, and a very justifiable reason to rage quit just before leaving anyway). Well...my skirm raid rolls suck pretty bad too, and that doesn't help...but isn't the point...
    Bottom line, if I am not locked, I would be interested in joining, and I can confidently heal the maneuver group, and probably the tank as well, if either are needed. Also, I will be available next week, unless our group succeeds Saturday, and decides to run it regularly.
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  11. #11

    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiding View Post
    Volunteering mini services if 4.5k health is enough...
    Get more morale nub! you'd be one shotted by some of those aoe's :P

    I'm up for being main healer
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  12. #12
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    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    Quote Originally Posted by znz212 View Post
    Get more morale nub! you'd be one shotted by some of those aoe's :P

    I'm up for being main healer
    Hey. I just got 75, and all my time is being spent with orthopedic surgeons or at work. no energy to deal with grinding out book quest so i can do skrims to get loots.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0d21601000007fc3f/signature.png]Healzrus[/charsig]

  13. #13

    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    Quote Originally Posted by Edlorthar View Post
    Volunteering my services to main tank it so you can run the rest of the raid without having to worry about me.
    Quote Originally Posted by atmonello View Post
    Anyway, feel free to contact me if needed. I can stay healing the tanks, never did it DPSing.
    Quote Originally Posted by takimeta View Post
    I, too, would like to lend my tanking and burglar services on this behalf. I have a kin run tomorrow (Friday, 02DEC11), so depending whether my burg or warden goes will determine which can be any use then.

    For Draigoch PUGs that I will try to start running, I will be adhering to Jacbo's outline above.
    Quote Originally Posted by znz212 View Post
    I'm up for being main healer
    Added to list of potential support playersonnel(TM).

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyDale View Post
    I'd be interested in that. [...]
    Added to list in OP. And yeah it's a fight that can take quite a while if you have nobody who's done it since there are avenues to screw up even an hour in.

    Quote Originally Posted by EvvPlayer View Post
    I would be interested in a Sunday run. What timezone are we talking about? [...]
    Added to list, timezone is in Eastern Standard Time. Start time would be in the area of 7-9 PM EST/4-6 PM PST/12-2 AM GMT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aranedain View Post
    +rep for this, Jac, and count me in. I am eager to get in there and learn the rest of the raid precisely because I've wanted to be able to lead and teach PUGs through it.

    Pre-reqs are good. I can serve in a back-up Burglar role and have some experience as primary Burg. I do want to get rest of the FMs in my fellowship skills tab so that I can effectively lead in the future (if it works out for me to go and be in that group). [...]
    Added to list. Two burglars never hurts, both as insurance and since if the DPS is quick enough the CJ cooldowns won't be up(we've hit the gold in a 3m turnaround a couple of times).

    Quote Originally Posted by LoraE View Post
    I'm also interested.
    Added to list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiding View Post
    Volunteering mini services if 4.5k health is enough... course work is getting weird so i dont know if i'd be around or not... waiting to hear back when the person to replace me is in so I can let my damn knee heal.

    CURSE YOU PATELLA TENDON INJURIES!
    Added you to the list but like Erl said that's low in the morale department. Having everyone very near to or above 6k morale self-buffed is ideal.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaridweese View Post
    [...] Bottom line, if I am not locked, I would be interested in joining, and I can confidently heal the maneuver group, and probably the tank as well, if either are needed. Also, I will be available next week, unless our group succeeds Saturday, and decides to run it regularly.
    Added to list. A lot of the raid is reliant on a few key roles, to the point that an average DPS class you bring along could have their instruction simmered down to "stay on the target marked player, DPS the target assist, hit your number in the CJ (or if not in CJ group hold DPS)". This of course relies on the target marked player and other key elements but is a realistic appraisal.

    --------

    List added to OP. Nice to see the interest generated so far, bringing Officers/Leaders of other kins who've yet to clear it should prove beneficial. When(/if) we go through the run, what will happen is I'll be explaining the fight in a way that a raid leader needs to know it, which means you won't hear about only what you're doing but what each role needs to be doing in each phase. Part of the problem with people clearing raids and leading subsequent runs usually stems from only having knowledge of their class role and not being able to instruct all of the other classes.

    The group we'll be looking to take will include 1 Tank*, 1 Minstrel, 1 Rune-keeper, 1 Captain, 1 Heal Capable, 1 Burglar, 6 DPS(ideally 1 backup Burglar included).

    * I'm aware there's an exploit that makes a tank unnecessary, but it is an exploit and I don't wish to teach a way that might be bugfixed. Additionally it does not provide major simplification to the fight, since healing the tank is trivial, and someone still has to respond to tank cues.
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  14. #14

    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    I would love to go along and learn the raid. I recognize that you said only one tank, and that you would likely bring your own support tank to increase likelihood of completing the raid. I also see that you have listed our kin leader and one of our officers in the list of those interested, so if you choose not to include me, I understand. However, if there's room, I'd love to come along and learn, too (Anessen, Lunelleth and I are often on together, which could help future PUG success if we all are able to co-direct future PUGs).
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  15. #15
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    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacbo View Post
    Faulks, Minstrel, Noob
    I won't even deny it. But hey, working on jewlery and all that. powering through all my dailies for gear, trying to get jewleries. Sadly i'm a yeoman so no cracked sigils for me to get crafted very easily. I got 40k tp so i'm figuring something is possible there
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0d21601000007fc3f/signature.png]Healzrus[/charsig]

  16. #16

    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    Quote Originally Posted by znz212 View Post
    Get more morale nub! you'd be one shotted by some of those aoe's :P
    How much morale do you need in there?
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  17. #17
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    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    Quote Originally Posted by Brewley View Post
    How much morale do you need in there?
    For a mini, I believe 6k unbuffed is the goal.

    I'll go ahead and throw this out, but for a tank class, guardian specifically (I can't speak for wardens, I'm not sure what kind of damage they take from hits, Jacbo would be able to chime in on this), this could be run at a lower morale point than some other content, but I would suggest stacking as much phys mitigation as possible. With ~60% physical mitigation, Draigoch hits like a baby, so you could go in with say 10-11k morale unbuffed (it's real easy to hit 12-14k with all the new gear and jewelry and traits) and be ok. Its the mechanics of the fight that will kill you, not the damage he does.
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  18. #18

    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    Quote Originally Posted by Edlorthar View Post
    For a mini, I believe 6k unbuffed is the goal.

    I'll go ahead and throw this out, but for a tank class, guardian specifically (I can't speak for wardens, I'm not sure what kind of damage they take from hits, Jacbo would be able to chime in on this), this could be run at a lower morale point than some other content, but I would suggest stacking as much phys mitigation as possible. With ~60% physical mitigation, Draigoch hits like a baby, so you could go in with say 10-11k morale unbuffed (it's real easy to hit 12-14k with all the new gear and jewelry and traits) and be ok. Its the mechanics of the fight that will kill you, not the damage he does.
    Indeed, casters need ~6k unbuffed. There are some heavy diminishing returns starting around 40% outgoing healing, so after that you can safely start stacking morale on other pieces. Having played a guard and healed a guard in Draigoch, you could turn your back to him the whole time so there's no b/p/e and the healer could still keep up with their eyes closed. Wardens take spike hits more often because they can't b/p/e everything and they don't mitigate like guards, but the healing is still trivial.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0d2160100000cbe74/signature.png]Porken[/charsig]
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  19. #19

    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    I probably will be locked on my warden on kin run, if not, I can be a backup too.

    As far as the build for warden to tank dragon, you should cap your common mitigation (50%) then go max physical mit. Ideal unbuffed morale should be 12-13k, which buffed up to close 15K. As myself and other warden posted at warden forum, we could possible (high chance at least happen once) to take two consecutive devastated (up to7K)/critical (up to 4K) hit and lose close to 11k in a couple of seconds, as most of time, u would be running at 12k+, get morale pot ready when dev happens and hit Never Surrender. And get most of HoT going. Also I have been running on Conservation, but seen Jac running on Determination.

    I guess Jac will explain the visual cue for both phase 2/3 as they do save a lot trouble. To make it easier I am linking the phase 2 picture here. And phase 3 the coin swirl is more of DPS lead duty as tank is busy moving around.

    My own experience for phase 3 on the ground, use tab to find the head as sometime it is hard to see. Once you have head on your target through target assist window, even u r a bit far, u can throw javelin at it to aggro, not sure it helps avoid cave-in or not. I kind of do it if I felt that I might need a bit time to get to melee range of the head. When trying to get to the head, tank should run a bit far from the dragon body as you might take the claws distributed damage all by yourself.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0d21600000013720a/signature.png]Caltraen[/charsig][url=http://my.lotro.com/home/character/dwarrowdelf/calttrien]
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  20. #20
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    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    Cal's Phase 2 Head Tank Directional Call image isn't showing up for me, so I'm gonna put up another link in the case it's not appearing for other peeps as well.

    Last edited by takimeta; Dec 02 2011 at 03:00 PM. Reason: clarification
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  21. #21
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    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    Quote Originally Posted by Brewley View Post
    How much morale do you need in there?
    The best way to deal with a lack of morale:
    - Virtues (Zeal being the most important)
    - your LI relics (more specifically Remarkable Setting of Beginnings, Extraordinary Gem of Hope, True Rune of the Two Trees)
    - and your jewelry (having the 4piece raid set doesn't hurt, either).
    Last edited by takimeta; Dec 02 2011 at 03:05 PM.
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  22. #22
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    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    Sounds like this is shaping up nicely! I'll make sure I'm on Sunday by 6:00PM (CST) to see if we get a group or not).

    I've heard that RK's make great tank healers for this. Is that what I can assume my role would be?

  23. #23
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    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    Yes. You'll most likely be standing up top about 10~15 meters out to the left/right of the tank.
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  24. #24
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    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    Cool. I'll spend some time working on my healing output vs. morale department. Been a struggle to keep both as high as possible without sacrificing too many other stats. Think I'm at like 6k morale and 15k output with a 'moors build I was playing with last night. Can get my morale as high as 7.2k (with what gear I currently have) but my will and healing output go way down. Will play around this weekend.

    Part of the fun ...

  25. #25

    Re: Gauging interest in Draigoch PUG

    Here are a couple of pictures from this post:
    http://www.tentonhammer.com/lotro/guides/misc/draigoch
    Toa: this is the one I wanted show you other day.

    Map1: DPS group position and movement


    Map2: Tank and healer position.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0d21600000013720a/signature.png]Caltraen[/charsig][url=http://my.lotro.com/home/character/dwarrowdelf/calttrien]
    Calttrien 85 Guardian [/url]

 

 
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