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  1. #76

    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    I came here for a thread about puppies, but it devolved into a dogfight.
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  2. #77
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodoriph View Post
    I came here for a thread about puppies, but it devolved into a dogfight.
    Cute, and fair enough. Never thought the original idea had legs (2 or 4) though...

  3. #78
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    I run skirmishes for SM/hour largely (which is true for most I'm aware of outside of you), not the excitement, as I think they are sort of boring. But just went and ran my usuals (rift, dannenglor) at T3 to see what I've been missing. Used my herbalist to be conservative and a banner, no herald. Went swimmingly traited LtC and using Blade Bro (for reflection mostly). No deaths, no cooldowns needed, but certainly rather harder than T1. Not as hard as soloing GS, IMHO. Don't plan on doing it regularly as the 25% extras SMs + a few in the chest don't make it worthwhile as the mobs with twice the hitpoints take over twice the time to kill. Not sure what it is great training for, as the things I consider hard, like OD T2, would seem to require different skillsets.
    You get more than just an extra 25%. The lutinenets and encounters have a higher chance to drop marks as well. But as I said, you are a different style of captain, so perhaps extra CC isn't as benefical as it is for a Hands of Healing Captain. Perhaps you should try those Tier3 again as a HoH captain, then maybe you will understand more of what I say. Or maybe you are just that awesome and don't need cc...I don't know.

    I have spoken with other LtC captains who do tier 3s with the aid of a herbalist, so I deffinitely know it's a winning strat - but again, like I said, this is comparing apples to oranges. Go do a tier3 as a HoH Captain, then we can actually have a valid debate where we are both discussing the same thing. I've already said I'm willing to accept a herald may not be that beneficial to a LtC Captain, so I don't know what more you want out of me. Besides, I would love to meet another HoH Captain who does tier3 content, as I would love someone to be able to compare notes with ^^
    Last edited by Jeremi; Dec 05 2011 at 12:08 AM.

  4. #79
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodoriph View Post
    I came here for a thread about puppies, but it devolved into a dogfight.
    I'm not dogfighting

    I'm simply defending the value of a herald, something I would think you'd appreciate given you are trying to talk turbine into giving us more perks with them ^^

  5. #80
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    You get more than just an extra 25%. The lutinenets and encounters have a higher chance to drop marks as well. But as I said, you are a different style of captain, so perhaps extra CC isn't as benefical as it is for a Hands of Healing Captain.
    Again with the "Hands of Healing Captain" thing. I've run HoH post ROI where it is appropriate. I'm not a LtC Captain, a LoM Captain, or a HoH Captain, just a "Captain". Solo skirmishes,3 man content, and easier raids (T1 skirm 12 mans, Draigoth T2 CM) strike me as generally best suited to LtC skills, just as main healing 6 mans or presumably the upcoming harder content strikes me as best suited to HoH line and main tanking 6 mans seems best with LoM. Can't picture why HoH (or a low might build such as you appear to run) would be considered best suited for solo skirmishes, but whatever floats your boat.

    so I don't know what more you want out of me.
    Nothing at this point, happy to be done with this "discussion".
    Last edited by DelgonTheWise; Dec 05 2011 at 09:29 AM. Reason: typo

  6. #81
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    Again with the "Hands of Healing Captain" thing. I've run HoH post ROI where it is appropriate. I'm not a LtC Captain, a LoM Captain, or a HoH Captain, just a "Captain". Solo skirmishes,3 man content, and easier raids (T1 skirm 12 mans, Draigoth T2 CM) strike me as generally best suited to LtC skills, just as main healing 6 mans or presumably the upcoming harder content strikes me as best suited to HoH line and main tanking 6 mans seems best with LoM. Can't picture why HoH (or a low might build such as you appear to run) would be considered best suited for solo skirmishes, but whatever floats your boat.

    ".
    /sigh

    And here it goes again with the might thing...

    First, i have plenty of might gear I can toss on in my vault. It's not difficult to gear up my might and could easily get my might up to near 1700 simply by equipping it all. The reason I don't is I perform better with a balanced build between might and fate - and if you did tier3 content as a HoH Captain - you might would understand this better.

    Go do some Tier3 content as a HoH Captain, then we can talk. Otherwise we aren't on the same page, and you are going to be lost and confused as to what I speak. YOu just lack experience at doing higher tier content as HoH Captain. Your main seems to be LoM - which is probably why you are so baffled when i say stuff like our self-healing stucks and CC helps a lot. We are two totally different animals - which is why I don't try to counsel you on how to play your LoM Captain, because I don't have the experience to know much about it. The same can be said of you in regards to a HoH Captain.

    So basically what i'm saying is come back after you have some tier3 content under your belt as a HoH Captain. Then maybe we could have a more productive conversation
    Last edited by Jeremi; Dec 05 2011 at 11:17 AM.

  7. #82
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    /sigh

    And here it goes again with the might thing...

    First, i have plenty of might gear I can toss on in my vault. It's not difficult to gear up my might and could easily get my might up to near 1700 simply by equipping it all. The reason I don't is I perform better with a balanced build between might and fate - and if you did tier3 content as a HoH Captain - you might would understand this better.

    Go do some Tier3 content as a HoH Captain, then we can talk. Otherwise we aren't on the same page, and you are going to be lost and confused as to what I speak. YOu just lack experience at doing higher tier content as HoH Captain. Your main seems to be LoM - which is probably why you are so baffled when i say stuff like our self-healing stucks and CC helps a lot. We are two totally different animals - which is why I don't try to counsel you on how to play your LoM Captain, because I don't have the experience to know much about it. The same can be said of you in regards to a HoH Captain.

    So basically what i'm saying is come back after you have some tier3 content under your belt as a HoH Captain. Then maybe we could have a more productive conversation
    Got it. All done with you here and elsewhere. Enjoy making round pegs (HoH) fit a mixture of round, triangular, and square holes.

  8. #83
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    Got it. All done with you here and elsewhere. Enjoy making round pegs (HoH) fit a mixture of round, triangular, and square holes.
    I'm confused.

    How is doing tier3 content as a HoH Captain making round pegs fit square holes? lol

    Just try doing some yourself as a HoH Captain first. You might just learn those round pegs fit rather nicely. Having some fate helps, trust me - as does using your Herald as CC. Try things first before you mock them.

    Or you can just prove me wrong, go jump into a tier3 with an all might-build using your banner as a HoH Captain and see how well you do. Who knows, I've never used a herbalist so you might be able to pull it off ^^

    Different strategies work for different styles of Captains. That's all i'm trying to explain to you. Stacking might and planting your banner may work well for you - but for others, not so much - and a more creative approach is needed.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Dec 05 2011 at 12:13 PM.

  9. #84

    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    We can just agree to disagree on this point, unless you are on my server and wish to give me a demostration of this incredible self-healing you have, cause I would like to see it. I'll invite you into one of my skirmishes and watch you take on a group of mobs without a healer or off-tank and see if you live.
    That's a great challenge to make, because you know no one is going to switch servers just to show you up. But, happily, we have this awesome thing called YouTube. Here are a few videos of HoH captains soloing awesome things just because they can:

    Sword-Halls.
    Bogbereth (136k raid boss).
    Fil Gashan first boss.
    Ettenmoors Outpost.

    Unfortunately, I could only find pre-ROI videos. But take those captains, level them to 75, use the same build, give them 20% revealing mark, and you've got proof that captains (even HoH) can clearly self-heal very well, and don't need the questionable herald CC to handle hard stuff.

    So, here's a return challenge for you: Show us a video of something hard that you think you need herald CC to do, and we'll either do it without a herald, or with a herald on passive for X-Brother.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    That said, I personally prefer a herald to a banner. For soloing, I use an archer or a herald of victory. The self-heal and buffs from Shield/Blade Brother, the herald heal (or DPS for archer), and the fact that you don't have to keep planting a banner more than compensate for the stat boosts from a banner. Also, it's more fun to feel like I'm a captain leading an army, even if it's only an army of one or two.

    However, I never use my herald for CC. My heralds are always on passive+assist, so they only attack the mob I am attacking and never pull aggro. My herald is primarily there for me to use Shield/Blade Brother, and secondarily for the buffs/heals (bannerman) or DPS (archer). My bannerman heralds don't have their taunt skill enabled.
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  10. #85
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    Cute, and fair enough. Never thought the original idea had legs (2 or 4) though...
    such is an argument on the internet: everyone's barking and no one will roll over.
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  11. #86
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Philosomanic View Post
    That's a great challenge to make, because you know no one is going to switch servers just to show you up. But, happily, we have this awesome thing called YouTube. Here are a few videos of HoH captains soloing awesome things just because they can:

    Sword-Halls.
    Bogbereth (136k raid boss).
    Fil Gashan first boss.
    Ettenmoors Outpost.

    Unfortunately, I could only find pre-ROI videos. But take those captains, level them to 75, use the same build, give them 20% revealing mark, and you've got proof that captains (even HoH) can clearly self-heal very well, and don't need the questionable herald CC to handle hard stuff.

    So, here's a return challenge for you: Show us a video of something hard that you think you need herald CC to do, and we'll either do it without a herald, or with a herald on passive for X-Brother.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    That said, I personally prefer a herald to a banner. For soloing, I use an archer or a herald of victory. The self-heal and buffs from Shield/Blade Brother, the herald heal (or DPS for archer), and the fact that you don't have to keep planting a banner more than compensate for the stat boosts from a banner. Also, it's more fun to feel like I'm a captain leading an army, even if it's only an army of one or two.

    However, I never use my herald for CC. My heralds are always on passive+assist, so they only attack the mob I am attacking and never pull aggro. My herald is primarily there for me to use Shield/Blade Brother, and secondarily for the buffs/heals (bannerman) or DPS (archer). My bannerman heralds don't have their taunt skill enabled.

    Nah, our self-healing isn't that great. Wish it was - but it's not. Sure, it can heal you through easy #### like Sword Halls...content that caps at 65 (I don't consider content 10 levels under my character as awesome solo feats) but go fight a level 75 tier3 encounter boss and see how well your self-healing keeps you up. You are going to go splat, and will either need a tank or a healer to get through the fight. So we can just agree to disagree on this point. I really don't think HoH Captains have very good self-healing. It's decent, but nothing remarkable and not that impressive to me. But as I've said mutliple times before, maybe i'm just more difficult to impress

    And I stand by everything I said. Using your Herald as a form of CC can and will help you defeat groups you coudn't otherwise do. At least it does me - and if you read my post, I offered to go to their server to show them, so your little comment about me saying that because no one would likely take me up on it is bs.

    I may make a video to better show what i'm talking about if I get into the mood - though I'v enever made a u-tube video before so I"m not sure how it's done.

    I do agree with you that the herald is more fun to use than the banner. And I also agree with you that the benfits of a herald outweigh the uses of a banner in most situations (if I understand you correctly) though I do have to say you are really missing out by not using them as a form of CC. They are excellent at it, and you should give it a try. You may like the results.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Dec 05 2011 at 10:36 PM.

  12. #87
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    I may make a video to better show what i'm talking about if I get into the mood - though I'v enever made a u-tube video before so I"m not sure how it's done.
    download camstudio
    start filming
    compress (using camstudio itself or tools like virtualdub)
    upload
    simple
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  13. #88

    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Nah, our self-healing isn't that great. Wish it was - but it's not. Sure, it can heal you through easy #### like Sword Halls...content that caps at 65 (I don't consider content 10 levels under my character as awesome solo feats) but go fight a level 75 tier3 encounter boss and see how well your self-healing keeps you up. You are going to go splat, and will either need a tank or a healer to get through the fight.
    Every single one of those captains was level 65. So those aren't under-level, those are the equivalent of doing a 3-man skirmish solo. Also, Fil Gashan is a level 60 full fellowship instance. So that captain killed a boss designed for six players 5 levels under him. No CC.

    And... I'm not sure what you consider good self-healing. The only class that has better than us is Wardens, but they are completely designed around their ability to stack HoTs and morale drains. We have self-healing at least equal to Champs, and arguably superior to Guardians. If you're struggling to heal yourself, make sure that you have the right legacies (Melee Healing, Vocal Healing, Rallying Cry CD, Muster Courage CD) and you trait for survival. A good set of virtues for taking on hard stuff: Innocence, Fidelity, Zeal, Loyalty, Justice. Morale won't help that much in a long fight; it's all about the ICMR and mitigations.

    As for video uploading, I'm going to introduce you to a cool little tool called X-Fire. It will capture video video and convert it for you. If you want, it will even upload it to XFire.com with the click of a single button. There's even a handy video showing you how to do it.

    There! No more claiming that you're "not sure how it's done". Time for the "I'm not in the mood" excuses to start...
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  14. #89
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Would you like that pan seared?!
    "I am always serious; I am never serious." -Me
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  15. #90
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Philosomanic View Post
    Every single one of those captains was level 65. So those aren't under-level, those are the equivalent of doing a 3-man skirmish solo. Also, Fil Gashan is a level 60 full fellowship instance. So that captain killed a boss designed for six players 5 levels under him. No CC.

    And... I'm not sure what you consider good self-healing. The only class that has better than us is Wardens, but they are completely designed around their ability to stack HoTs and morale drains. We have self-healing at least equal to Champs, and arguably superior to Guardians. If you're struggling to heal yourself, make sure that you have the right legacies (Melee Healing, Vocal Healing, Rallying Cry CD, Muster Courage CD) and you trait for survival. A good set of virtues for taking on hard stuff: Innocence, Fidelity, Zeal, Loyalty, Justice. Morale won't help that much in a long fight; it's all about the ICMR and mitigations.

    As for video uploading, I'm going to introduce you to a cool little tool called X-Fire. It will capture video video and convert it for you. If you want, it will even upload it to XFire.com with the click of a single button. There's even a handy video showing you how to do it.

    There! No more claiming that you're "not sure how it's done". Time for the "I'm not in the mood" excuses to start...
    Just the fact you would mention Muster Courage as am example of a good self-heal proves my point. That heals sucks. And please, don't start lecutring me about vitures. Go equip every physical resist virture you have and go fight something that actually hits hard and see if you can heal through it. I repeat, you are going to go splat unless you do a lot of running around to save yourself because your supposedly incredible self heals are deffinitely not going to keep you up.

    Rune Keepers, Ministrels, Wardens - just about any healing class has better self heals than a HoH Captain.

    I don't really care what videos you have seen. You can find a video prove anything. There are probably videos that pigs really do dance on Mars. That doesn't interest me, nor does some Captain spending all day trying to solo a fellow instance. If I get into the mood I may make a video. It's not an excuse, just the truth. On my list of priorities, schooling myself on how to make video game videos to prove some point on the internet isn't really high up there.

    You can take my advice about using the herald as a CC or not. To be honest, I don't really give a ####. It's a useful technique I have learned and use a lot to help me take out large groups of enemies. But if you don't like the strat, then don't use it. I could care less. But any other HoH Captains out there who do have difficulty taking on large groups of monsters, they may want to give it a shot - because it can help. We are not all as awesome as you apparantly and can self-heal our way through enemy armies without the benefit of CC.

    This is what I'm going to do as a compromise. I will go find a situation I need my Herald on as CC and report it on the forums. I'll try to find a situaion outside of a skirmish - which is typically where i use this technique, since those are randomly occuring and will be difficult for others to duplicate. Maybe then that will end this nonsense and get all of you herald haters off my back.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Dec 06 2011 at 03:44 PM.

  16. #91
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    If I get into the mood I may make a video. It's not an excuse, just the truth. On my list of priorities, schooling myself on how to make video game videos to prove some point on the internet isn't really high up there.
    but lecturing other people on how they should play their classes is?
    interesting
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  17. #92
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by flyingcircus View Post
    but lecturing other people on how they should play their classes is?
    interesting
    Hmm...so explaining the benefits of using a herald as a form of CC is lecturing people on how to play? Interesting...

    I constantly tell others they can play like they want. That isn't lecturing. You just need to chill out

  18. #93
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by flyingcircus View Post
    but lecturing other people on how they should play their classes is?
    interesting
    The forum "ignore" feature has worked well for me here, reached my limit with him quickly enough...

  19. #94
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    The forum "ignore" feature has worked well for me here, reached my limit with him quickly enough...
    lol...that are you are just too proud to accept a differing view from another Captain, which i suspect is the case here. I never lectured you once and went out of my way to say play as you want and this is just my opinion. Also if you are going to put me on ignore, which I welcome since you seem to take everything so personal, at least have the dignity not to talk about me after you do it. There is an old saying that i think applies here:

    "Don't go away mad, just go away"
    Last edited by Jeremi; Dec 06 2011 at 03:58 PM.

  20. #95
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Hmm...so explaining the benefits of using a herald as a form of CC is lecturing people on how to play? Interesting...

    I constantly tell others they can play like they want. That isn't lecturing. You just need to chill out
    you actually asked me and others to come over to your server so you can show them how to properly play a captain Oo
    if that isn't lecturing i don't know what is

    videos showing that no CC is necessary to tackle some very difficult stuff on a captain (more difficult than a tier 3 skirmish i'd wager) were tossed aside by you and the opportunity to show us your awesome captain feats via youtube video was aswell
    so yeah i think we're done here
    Last edited by flyingcircus; Dec 06 2011 at 04:26 PM.
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  21. #96
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by flyingcircus View Post
    you actually asked me and others to come over to your server so you can show them how to properly play a captain Oo
    if that isn't lecturing i don't know what is
    lol, that is BS.

    I simply asked you to come over to my server so I could show you what I was talking about. I never said come over to my server so I could show you how to "properly play a captain". Those are your words not mine.

    It was out of pure laziness, as I was growing tired of trying to explain my points in words. Much easier just to show you how using your herald as CC can help in a lot of situations, and I explained this already.

    I constantly go out of my way to stress my views are simply my opinions and people should play as they want. I don't know what more I can do frankly, cept tell you and others to chill out and stop taking everything I say up the backside.

  22. #97
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by flyingcircus View Post

    videos showing that no CC is necessary to tackle some very difficult stuff on a captain (more difficult than a tier 3 skirmish i'd wager) were tossed aside by you and the opportunity to show us your awesome captain feats via youtube video was aswell
    so yeah i think we're done here
    lol...just because there is a video somewhere of a Captain doing something hard without CC doens't mean CC isn't useful to any Captain anywhere. What an absurd claim based off a ridiculous premis.

    I am telling you from my own experiences using a herald as a form of CC helps me out a lot in many different situations and does allow me to defeat groups I otherwise could not. That is just a fact.

    Like I said earlier on, I will go try to find a specefic situation where I need CC outside of skirmishes that easy to duplicate so I can put this nonsense to rest.

  23. #98
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    lol...just because there is a video somewhere of a Captain doing something hard without CC doens't mean CC isn't useful to any Captain anywhere. What an absurd claim based off a ridiculous premis.

    I am telling you from my own experiences using a herald as a form of CC helps me out a lot in many different situations and does allow me to defeat groups I otherwise could not. That is just a fact.

    Like I said earlier on, I will go try to find a specefic situation where I need CC outside of skirmishes that easy to duplicate so I can put this nonsense to rest.
    i never said CC isn't useful
    i said it isn't necessary
    now you're the one making up stuff
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  24. #99
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Nah, our self-healing isn't that great. Wish it was - but it's not. Sure, it can heal you through easy #### like Sword Halls...content that caps at 65 (I don't consider content 10 levels under my character as awesome solo feats) but go fight a level 75 tier3 encounter boss and see how well your self-healing keeps you up. You are going to go splat, and will either need a tank or a healer to get through the fight. So we can just agree to disagree on this point. I really don't think HoH Captains have very good self-healing. It's decent, but nothing remarkable and not that impressive to me. But as I've said mutliple times before, maybe i'm just more difficult to impress

    And I stand by everything I said. Using your Herald as a form of CC can and will help you defeat groups you coudn't otherwise do. At least it does me - and if you read my post, I offered to go to their server to show them, so your little comment about me saying that because no one would likely take me up on it is bs.

    I may make a video to better show what i'm talking about if I get into the mood - though I'v enever made a u-tube video before so I"m not sure how it's done.

    I do agree with you that the herald is more fun to use than the banner. And I also agree with you that the benfits of a herald outweigh the uses of a banner in most situations (if I understand you correctly) though I do have to say you are really missing out by not using them as a form of CC. They are excellent at it, and you should give it a try. You may like the results.

    Are you talking about tier3 solo or raid leutenants? Because I can tank the leutenants in tier 3 solo skirmishes, in an HoH build, with no problem. Mind you, I'm built for durability. Over 7K melee resistance rating without buffs. If anything, my build is a little lower on might than I'd like.

    In fact, I normally use HoH for solo skirmishes precisely for the self heals. Breaking it down by heals per minute, Strength from within heals me for about 2.3K, Valient strike for about 1.4, and Shield-brother inspire/fellowship brother for about 1.8. Assuming 200 DPS, which should be an under estimation even in HoH, the 20% revealing mark self heals about 2.4k per minute. Without even getting any crit heal ticks, that's almost 8000 morale self healed per minute in HoH, without Rallying Cry. Add in Morale pots, and captains do have some pretty significant self healing. It is at least good enough that I frequently hear about other classes having trouble with some of the tougher solo content that I just breeze through based on my self healing.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/03202000000003071/01008/signature.png]Kalbarad[/charsig]

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,135

    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by flyingcircus View Post
    i never said CC isn't useful
    i said it isn't necessary
    now you're the one making up stuff
    Hm...

    Well to me if something isn't necessary it's not really that useful either.

    But anyways...what I said stands. For me it is necessary, as I would die without using it in some situations, and the fact there is some video of a captain soloing a instance doens't really change anything.

    But as I said, i'm going to find you a situation where it is "necessary", and post it later so you can go test it yourself and we can settle this.

 

 
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