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  1. #26

    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Archer is best for soloing, because the buffs from heralds make very little difference to one person; more DPS is better. Also, archers are better about accidental pulls because they won't run up to a mob you pull from far away.

    In groups, I use a herald just because you don't have to constantly reapply the banner. My heralds are always on passive assist, so they go for what I do, and since I'm in melee range they're usually fine too. If it's in an instance I know will involve AoE that will get my herald, I'll just turn assist off. All of the sudden, he is literally nothing but a mobile banner.

    Anyways, even if your herald dies, it's incredibly easy to swap to a banner. You can have your banner out and buffing the group 5 seconds after the herald goes down.
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  2. #27
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    getting off topic... but the main reason i use a pet (archer 99% of the time) solo is to take advantage of my brother skills coming back to the group. ive come to rely on the blade brother power return... too much?

    if i could keep my limited, "self-brother-reflection" (for lack of... any term.) skills like To Arms and Inspire, i wouldnt run with a pet.
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  3. #28
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by flyingcircus View Post
    really now? because of those 3-4% less dps? because herald dps is at all relevant?
    If it wasn't common damage, it'd actually be higher - and it'd help to offset the offensive bonuses we get from the banner.

    Quote Originally Posted by flyingcircus View Post
    experience has shown me that he isn't
    Critted Tier 7 armaments do wonders, mate. Throw Master of War into the mix (like most captains are these days) and both the survivability and damage goes up. I've taken one throughout OD, and the only reason I don't have one running around Draigoch with me is because of pathing issues in the tunnels.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

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  4. #29
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    If it wasn't common damage, it'd actually be higher
    that is very debatable.. i'd wager that the difference between common damage and any other damage type in group fights does not average more than 3-4%

    considering that heralds already deal very little damage and that captains themselves are not popular for their dps potential this difference is so small as to be utterly insignificant

    i'm willing to bet that 90% of captains who choose not to use a herald in group play don't even realize their herald is using common damage or that common damage nets a little less dps than other damage types
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  5. #30
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    the pet is one reason I really got into the captain class, strangely enough... it takes practice and getting used to pet control that actually got me to adequately utilize the herald in say, small fellowship settings... it was actually quite useful when running with a loremaster and his pet, and our minstrel... pop on some pet consumable crests, and there I had a pet that could either do more damage or survive more...

    for solo, I always use a pet (usually archer), since I'd be gimping myself out of my 'brother' skills, otherwise... I've been experimenting with solo skirmishes using a banner, designating my soldier as my new 'brother', and it works quite well... I'd say a good captain knows what situation favors a herald (with applicable traits), or banner (with its improved trait) for groups... or, simply be partial to both, and have the banner as backup if the herald falls...
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  6. #31
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by SGWB View Post
    The problem with Heralds is that they were originally developed as a nerf and do not add additional combat capabilities beyond their banners. Well, originally they did offer a guaranteed stun, but that required a mark, mutually exclusive to Revealing and Telling, to be applied to the target. That mark was replaced by Noble Mark and the heralds' stun was changed to only apply 25% of the time. Since then, heralds have simply been outpaced by the introduction of banners and other game developments.

    When I started playing, the Herald was the only option, and I used it extensively when leveling. I learned how to use them pretty well as an off-tank. But in order to do that, the captain has to delay healing the herald for as long as possible. They simply don't generate enough aggro to hold a mob against more than a couple heals. The trouble is that with our self healing we no longer need an off-tank, and the herald is a bit redundant. The Archer is good for additional DPS and to give some ranged damage for a few places where it is helpful. I use the Archer a lot for solo content. But in group content, it is so hard to get the heralds and archers out of AoE damage that I just use the banner and avoid that headache. For so little benefit, most players just don't see the benefit in learning how to use the herald well.

    So, that leaves the heralds as something like an appendix.

    .
    I just don't agree with any of your points.

    First, you are confusing Tanking with CC. I never said heralds made good tanks...they make good CC. There is a huge difference. And don't tell me they dont' make effective CC, as I use my herald to CC even some of the stronger mobs in the game - like tier3 skirmish lutinenents and the like. They are extremely durable and are excellent at keeping a mob off you while you kill the other.

    Now if you try to tank with one...then yes, you are going to be dissapointed I agree.

    And it's not that difficult to have your archer avoid AoE. Just command him to stay out of AoE range. In my experiences the archer gives more damage to the Captain than does the melee offense rating buff from banners, so they are ususally worth the trouble if you are wanting to produce maximum DPS. They also provide the Captain with the ability to kite things while your archer shoots them to death - a strat Captains were designed to use on occasion as evidenced by their movement-impairing attacks like Cutting Attack. There is a reason the DPS trait line for Captain's boost your pet's damage afterall.

    Also, your comment that we no longer need (off-tanks) because of our supposed self-healing makes no sense to me. What self-healing? I hope you don't mean Strength From Within...as that is a ###### heal that isnt' goign to keep you alive against anything challenging. Not all captains are Leader of Men and can utlize a self-Inspire buff. Captains generally have #### self-healing (I know this one does) - so I really don't know where you are coming from with that comment.

    Captains who don't take the time to master the use of the Herald and the Archer are really holding back the true potential of their class IMHO. Becoming good with your pet is key to being able to defeat more difficult challenges on your Captain.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Dec 01 2011 at 04:03 AM.

  7. #32
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Captains who don't take the time to master the use of the Herald and the Archer are really holding back the true potential of their class IMHO. Becoming good with your pet is key to being able to defeat more difficult challenges on your Captain.
    and that is where you're wrong
    a captain can do just fine tackling challenging content when using a standard instead
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  8. #33

    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    In my experiences the archer gives more damage to the Captain than does the melee offense rating buff from banners, so they are ususally worth the trouble if you are wanting to produce maximum DPS.
    For me, that was true until Lvl70. Now at Lvl75 I'm doing much more damage with a war banner than with my oathbreaker (I think it's because of the 5% damage-bonus).

  9. #34

    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    To be honest, it wouldn't be such a bad idea to fix the pet conundrum once and for all, and not just for capts.

    Give every class the ability to get a warhound! Tie it behind a quest chain at a certain level, you could even make money out of it by making it only available to VIPs / store item.

    Make the quest line interesting enough + make the hound 'grow' with traits one can acquire throughout the game, and make the changes unchangable, so once you've made a decision it's final. This should make an interesting idea for pve, although probably too much to handle in raids. Kind of like how legendary items should have worked now that I think about it.

    But, since this ^ won't hold any ground anyway, on the subject of a captain wardog, it doesn't sound like too bad an idea. Captains are the ones that are supposed to lead the charge and command the troops, historicly speaking, and according to Hollywood, these men usually had some kind of war hound along their side, so a mad beast able to tear your opponent to shreds wouldn't be too bad of an idea. So long as it's not overpowered in any way.

    Perhaps you could just make a heralds armament for doggies instead.

  10. #35
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Also, your comment that we no longer need (off-tanks) because of our supposed self-healing makes no sense to me. What self-healing? I hope you don't mean Strength From Within...as that is a ###### heal that isnt' goign to keep you alive against anything challenging. Not all captains are Leader of Men and can utlize a self-Inspire buff. Captains generally have #### self-healing (I know this one does) - so I really don't know where you are coming from with that comment.
    Our self healing is better than ever. Heck, with my 5xDraigoth giving a 20% revealing mark the numbers floating over my head are ridiculous. Even if I'm doing 700 DPS, that is 140 HPS, which is huge. And what does Leader of Men have to do with anything at this point? Did you mean "traiting Fellowship Brother"? For that matter, soloing you don't need FB, you can go LtC with capstone, blade brother your archer, and get the HOT and POT that way....
    Last edited by DelgonTheWise; Dec 01 2011 at 09:29 AM.

  11. #36

    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Captains generally have #### self-healing (I know this one does) - so I really don't know where you are coming from with that comment.
    I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Sure, when you compare us to, say, Wardens, our healing sucks. But they're Wardens. They're made to be incredibly epic for soloing. But compare us to Champs, Burgs, Hunts, and LMs and our self-heals are pretty awesome. Yeah, LMs and Hunts have a strong self-heal each, but they're long cooldowns. In terms of the ability to consistently self-heal through a long fight, we are at least the equal of any class but Wardens.

    Minis can heal better, but they're far squishier and will end up kiting more often. RKs can self-heal very well, but then they can't do DPS worth squat. (Not sure about guards here. From my experience as a guard, I'm thinking they might be able to beat us if they build for it, but I've never really seen that be the case.) We have the ability to work self-heals into our combat rotation, and still do strong DPS. Look at our healing skills:

    Muster Courage: 20s CD.
    Inspire: 15s CD.
    Rallying Cry: 15-30s CD. (Depending on Defeat Events and DB/PA Crits)
    Valiant Strike: 60s-120s CD (Capstone, 3 Draigoch, Rallying Cries)

    That's no more than 12 skills per minute, which means that we still have plenty of time to do DPS (and get heals from Revealing Mark). Add that to our heavy armor, shield use, and self-buffs, and we can self-heal through quite a bit of punishment.

    We're no Wardens, but we're still pretty awesome.
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  12. #37
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by peanuticus View Post
    We are Captains, we do not have pets. We have heralds, much like the knights of old had squires. We are not dog whisperers, we lead MEN into battle. Please do not degrade our class into animal trainers. Thank you and G'day...
    This ^^

    If anything, I want a Hobbit. Or a Gauradan.
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  13. #38
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    Our self healing is better than ever. Heck, with my 5xDraigoth giving a 20% revealing mark the numbers floating over my head are ridiculous. Even if I'm doing 700 DPS, that is 140 HPS, which is huge. And what does Leader of Men have to do with anything at this point? Did you mean "traiting Fellowship Brother"? For that matter, soloing you don't need FB, you can go LtC with capstone, blade brother your archer, and get the HOT and POT that way....

    Well... maybe if you are a Lead the Charge Captain you have decent self-healing. That is why I said generally speaking - not all captains are Lead the Charge, and I'm speaking squarely from a HoH Captain perspective.

    Perhaps as Lead the Charge you can obtain suffienient self-healing through your Blade Brother skills and and revealing mark since you have higher DPS, though I'm still very skeptical that it negates the need to ever have an off-tank as was claimed, as I still think there are plenty of mobs out there that would flatten you if you allowed them to gang up on you.

    We can just agree to disagree on this point, unless you are on my server and wish to give me a demostration of this incredible self-healing you have, cause I would like to see it. I'll invite you into one of my skirmishes and watch you take on a group of mobs without a healer or off-tank and see if you live.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Dec 01 2011 at 03:01 PM.

  14. #39
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    We can just agree to disagree on this point, unless you are on my server and wish to give me a demostration of this incredible self-healing you have, cause I would like to see it.
    I'm baffled. Let's say your HOH captain sustains 500 DPS, not so hard with a 2nd age 2-H weapon, right? And you have the 20% revealing mark. That, without ANYTHING ELSE, is 100 HPS. That is a pretty respectable amount of healing, and you can keep it going forever. That leaves out inspire (with your herald Shield brothered or blade brothered) HOT, the rallying cries ticking away, the (minor but helpful) SfW. You made the claim that

    Captains generally have #### self-healing
    I'm curious, who do you think has better in combat self heals? Are you saying that Captains are a below average class in that regard? Or just below Minis and Rks, and (maybe once fixed) Wardens, but with vastly better mitigations that the first two and heck, maybe better mitigations than Wardens until they are repaired some?

  15. #40
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Philosomanic View Post
    I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Sure, when you compare us to, say, Wardens, our healing sucks. But they're Wardens. They're made to be incredibly epic for soloing. But compare us to Champs, Burgs, Hunts, and LMs and our self-heals are pretty awesome. Yeah, LMs and Hunts have a strong self-heal each, but they're long cooldowns. In terms of the ability to consistently self-heal through a long fight, we are at least the equal of any class but Wardens.

    Minis can heal better, but they're far squishier and will end up kiting more often. RKs can self-heal very well, but then they can't do DPS worth squat. (Not sure about guards here. From my experience as a guard, I'm thinking they might be able to beat us if they build for it, but I've never really seen that be the case.) We have the ability to work self-heals into our combat rotation, and still do strong DPS. Look at our healing skills:

    Muster Courage: 20s CD.
    Inspire: 15s CD.
    Rallying Cry: 15-30s CD. (Depending on Defeat Events and DB/PA Crits)
    Valiant Strike: 60s-120s CD (Capstone, 3 Draigoch, Rallying Cries)

    That's no more than 12 skills per minute, which means that we still have plenty of time to do DPS (and get heals from Revealing Mark). Add that to our heavy armor, shield use, and self-buffs, and we can self-heal through quite a bit of punishment.

    We're no Wardens, but we're still pretty awesome.
    Well, as stated - I'm a Hands of Healing Captain, and my self-healing sucks. Muster Courage is laughable. Inspire only works as a self-healing tool if you are Leader of Men, which I am not. Rally Cry isn't a reliable form of self-healing in many situations. Same can be said of Valliant Strike.

    But let me bring you back to what this conversation was actually about, which is the claim that Captain's have such incredible self healing that it negates the need to have to use any CC or offtanking - thus making our herald useless. I cry BS on this claim, and until I'm proved otherwise I'm gong to hold to it.

    If any of these self-healing captains wish to prove me wrong, and want to heal themselves through a difficult boss fight or large group of difficult monsters on their own without any CC I welcome the chance to be proved wrong.

  16. #41
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Inspire only works as a self-healing tool if you are Leader of Men, which I am not.
    ...
    If any of these self-healing captains wish to prove me wrong, and want to heal themselves through a difficult boss fight or large group of difficult monsters on their own without any CC I welcome the chance to be proved wrong.[
    Not accurate if I understand what you are asaying. If you trait Fellowship Brother you'll get the group inspire heal if you pick Shield Brother or Blade Brother, unclear to me what you are talking about here?

    At 65 I got through first boss and most of second in SH solo on self heals, failure was inability to kick 2nd boss, not self heals. I guess it depends on what you mean by "difficult". Haven't tried any real solo challenges at 75, though I got through the trolls without the buff (which I didn't notice) for the quests in Nan Cuendir.
    Last edited by DelgonTheWise; Dec 01 2011 at 03:16 PM.

  17. #42
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    I'm baffled. Let's say your HOH captain sustains 500 DPS, not so hard with a 2nd age 2-H weapon, right? And you have the 20% revealing mark. That, without ANYTHING ELSE, is 100 HPS. That is a pretty respectable amount of healing, and you can keep it going forever. That leaves out inspire (with your herald Shield brothered or blade brothered) HOT, the rallying cries ticking away, the (minor but helpful) SfW. You made the claim that ?
    First, HoH captains cannot use inspire on themselves.

    Secondly, no - 100 HPS isn't that great, and isnt' going to keep you alive against something challenging that can crit you for thousands of damage, which many things I fight can and do.

    And you can only use Rally Cry after soemthing dies or you get a critical. It's very situational, and not something you can rely on for self-healing.

    Strength from Within sucks.

    I am not sold lol

  18. #43
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    Not accurate if I understand what you are asaying. If you trait Fellowship Brother you'll get the group inspire heal if you pick Shield Brother or Blade Brother, unclear to me what you are talking about here?
    You only get a lesser version of inspire from that trait. I've used it before - it's not that impressive. You only get the full-effect if you trait Leader of Men.

    Not sure what is unclear.

  19. #44
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    I'm curious, who do you think has better in combat self heals? Are you saying that Captains are a below average class in that regard? Or just below Minis and Rks, and (maybe once fixed) Wardens, but with vastly better mitigations that the first two and heck, maybe better mitigations than Wardens until they are repaired some?
    Well I'm not that familiar with RKs, but yes - Ministrels and Wardens deffinitely have better self-heals than I do as my HoH Captain.

    I don't know if they are below average or not. All I know is my self-healing leaves a lot to be desired, and isnt' going to keep me alive against a lot of the things I do battle with. I'm not that impressed with it.

    Maybe you are just more easily impressed than I

  20. #45
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    First, HoH captains cannot use inspire on themselves.

    And you can only use Rally Cry after soemthing dies or you get a critical. It's very situational, and not something you can rely on for self-healing.
    As to 1, you are simply wrong. Read up on "fellowship brother" some more.

    As to 2
    a) In LtC, the crits are not "situational", they are quite common. 22% crit rate, ability to battle shout every 15 seconds, fact that shadow's lament is ungated and gives you extra tries to crit on DB/PA, well, yes you can count on it. If there are multiple targets, you WILL be getting lots of crits, single target you can count on at least 1 a minute. Even in HOH my crit rate is over 15%, and in multi-target situations I get a decent amount of crits...
    b) "only use", eh? Time of Need is available every 2.5 minutes, and gives you a big net heal if you have the morale cost on LI. I have the TON morale cost/cooldown on swap LI. Surprised you aren't aware/don't use it more as a healing captain, RC on demand is, well, useful when healing. It is a rare fight I'm main healing where I don't pop TON at this point.

  21. #46
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    You only get a lesser version of inspire from that trait. I've used it before - it's not that impressive. You only get the full-effect if you trait Leader of Men.

    Not sure what is unclear.
    Not impressive? Really? Do you mean solo or grouped? I don't know anyone who often groups/raids without it. I find it quite impressive myself.

    As to what is unclear, well perhaps you understand my confusion after reading
    your statements like:

    Not all captains are Leader of Men and can utlize a self-Inspire buff.
    Inspire only works as a self-healing tool if you are Leader of Men

  22. #47
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    As to 1, you are simply wrong. Read up on "fellowship brother" some more.

    As to 2
    a) In LtC, the crits are not "situational", they are quite common. 22% crit rate, ability to battle shout every 15 seconds, fact that shadow's lament is ungated and gives you extra tries to crit on DB/PA, well, yes you can count on it. If there are multiple targets, you WILL be getting lots of crits, single target you can count on at least 1 a minute. Even in HOH my crit rate is over 15%, and in multi-target situations I get a decent amount of crits...
    b) "only use", eh? Time of Need is available every 2.5 minutes, and gives you a big net heal if you have the morale cost on LI. I have the TON morale cost/cooldown on swap LI. Surprised you aren't aware/don't use it more as a healing captain, RC on demand is, well, useful when healing. It is a rare fight I'm main healing where I don't pop TON at this point.
    /sigh

    OK let me try this again. Yes, you can get a group-wide Inspire by traiting "Fellowship Brother" BUT it is a lesser version of the skill. It is a watered down version and not as good.

    And yes, critical hits are situational. Even if you were able to get your critical hit chance up to the cap of 25% - it isnt' a reliable form of self-healing if you are up against something nailing you for thousands of damage. A 1/4 chance of being able to heal yourself isn't going to cut it. It's situational on when it can be relied on.

    Time of need is good for emergencies. It's not really a Self-Healing tool in my mind. It's more of an oh #### button. Again - not a reliable form of self-healing.

    Like I said, come on over to Nimrodel and look me up. I will put your Self-Healing to the test, and if you prove me wrong I will be happy to say you have proved me wrong

  23. #48
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    Not impressive? Really? Do you mean solo or grouped? I don't know anyone who often groups/raids without it. I find it quite impressive myself.

    As to what is unclear, well perhaps you understand my confusion after reading
    your statements like:
    Well like I said, you seem easier impressed than I.

    It's a fairly weak heal and isnt' goign to keep someone alive against any real damage.

    And I have already clarfied the confusion for you. When I said only Leader of Men captains can use Inspire on themselves, I meant the full version of Inspire, not the gimped version that trait gives you. I don't know why you are so confused on that.

  24. #49
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    /sigh

    OK let me try this again. Yes, you can get a group-wide Inspire by traiting "Fellowship Brother" BUT it is a lesser version of the skill. It is a watered down version and not as good.

    And yes, critical hits are situational. Even if you were able to get your critical hit chance up to the cap of 25% - it isnt' a reliable form of self-healing if you are up against something nailing you for thousands of damage. A 1/4 chance of being able to heal yourself isn't going to cut it. It's situational on when it can be relied on.

    Time of need is good for emergencies. It's not really a Self-Healing tool in my mind. It's more of an oh #### button. Again - not a reliable form of self-healing.

    Like I said, come on over to Nimrodel and look me up. I will put your Self-Healing to the test, and if you prove me wrong I will be happy to say you have proved me wrong
    Fellowship brother is IMO our premier legendary at this point, do you really not use it much?

    TON is reliable for all purposes. The 2.5 minute cooldown has changed it from panic to more routine, perhaps you never adjusted your opinion of it post ROI though.

    As to your transfer to Nimrodel "offer", well, no thanks. I'm clearly not worthy.

  25. #50
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    Re: Dunlending War Dog for Captain New Pet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Well like I said, you seem easier impressed than I.
    I surrender, I see the error of my ways. I'll never trait Fellowship Brother again!

 

 
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