Draigoch raid: phase 3 'Fellowship Maneuvres'

[TruAngel]

I was wondering if we can preform 'Fellowship Maneuvres' in phase 3? (without bugging the dragon)
*I've heard rumors that if you perform a 'Fellowship Maneuvre' after the 12 'Fellowship Maneuvre' he will bug.
Im scared to try because by then the raid group has already put in a lot of work and it would be terrible to have him bug out at the last minute.
Can anyone confirm that you can do 'Fellowship Maneuvre' in phase 3?
Thank you in advance,
Tru.

[Katz24]

We have had him bug several times when we have "broken the defenses" with a skill. Not sure about a burg starting one.

[amaizinblue]

Everytime we have killed him we used CJ's after completing challenge and he hasnt bugged yet. We have done the twisting dagger, decided that wasnt doing much, we tried all other types that didnt summon an oathbreaker and determined to just dps throught that phase, if we broke defenses we waited untill vulnerability was almost up and hammered blues. We have had him bug where he insisted on bringing down roof even though tank was in correct spot and had established aggro, regrouped rezzed dead and he did it again. Seems no real rhyme or reason to why he bugs, he just does sometimes. If there were concrete reasons why he bugged or how to get him to do it again i think people would know how to avoid doing those and the devs would know what was broken.

[Feybobiam]

We've had lots of runs where we had to proc CJs on the floor phase to finish Challenge. We've broken his defenses on more than one occassion (not popping a Burg CJ).

We've only ever had one bug. Ever.

[Seoras]

To clarify, Phase 3 and doing 12 FMs are not connected. The phases are dictated by morale (Phase 3, i.e. fighting him on the ground, occurs at 50% morale), not by how many FMs you have done. Is the question:

a) whether you can perform fellowship maneuvers AFTER the 12 Draigoch-specific ones?
or
b) whether you can perform fellowship maneuvers (Draigoch or otherwise) during phase 3 ?

I think you're asking a). The answer to that is yes, sort of. Our working understanding is that non-Draigoch FMs don't really 'work' in the raid - YYYYYY does not give you the benefits a group-wide 'flush' yellow would give you in the rest of the game, it just counts each person's 'Y' contribution individually, which is substantially weaker than the flush would be. So although you can contribute individually, it won't work as a group maneuver. I can't say that's how it works with 100% certainty, but I am pretty sure that is what we found back when we were experimenting and learning the raid 2 months ago. I'll confirm tonight. Same with BBBGG - you don't get the group-wide heal+power - each person just gets +morale if they went green or +power if they went blue. So while you can technically still trigger FMs during that stage (we have plenty of random ones that will go off from time to time) it is generally not worth contributing to them because most of the time you will do significantly more DPS if you just keep attacking rather than pausing to contribute what amounts to you hitting R or Y or whatever by yourself (admittedly you can try to wait until the last second to contribute, but your timing better be good). So I would not bother doing them. That said, like other posters, we've contributed to FMs or repeated Draigoch FMs and not had him bug because of that.

The answer to b) is yes, absolutely. We regularly use Phase 3 to finish the 12 Draigoch FMs with no problems.

[Jedichef420]

we did the final 4 cjs for phase 3 last night. each one did approx 500k dmg to him. 2 mill dmg in phase 3 from cjs and 2 mill from the group. seemed to speed up the fight a little more than doing all 12 cjs before phase 3.

[Cladariel]

we did the final 4 cjs for phase 3 last night. each one did approx 500k dmg to him. 2 mill dmg in phase 3 from cjs and 2 mill from the group. seemed to speed up the fight a little more than doing all 12 cjs before phase 3.

This is how I run the Dragon every time we save the 4 CJs until phase 3 so we are in phase 3 for a shorter amount of time. Once we have the first 8 done in phase 1 or 2 we just focus on dps and ignore any FMs that naturally pop.

[Jedichef420]

did the same again last night (unintentionally as our burg crashed twice in phase 2). really speeds up phase 3 when you have the final cjs completed during it.

[hucklebarry]

This probably depends on the group, but within the SAME group (same run) I watched the numbers and we seemed to do about 50-100k more damage with Twisting the Dagger as our standard CJ once the 12 are done, than when we ignored the CJ and just DPSed. I have also seen FM's come from members besides the burg and this did not cause a bug out. The one bug out I've seen came at 100k of morale. The only thing we can point to is that a member died and was put at the beginning of the instance (they didn't see a "release" option, they just loaded there). However this happened very early in stage 3. He didn't bug until 100k. This was particularly frustrating as we started 1 short to begin with, so we essentially 10 manned phase 3 and got nothing for the extra work

While it may or may not be any number of things, the only bug I have seen is when someone retreated during the fight. We also often get hit by multiple feet at once during phase 1 and 2... but that is another thread.

[Alleyman]

this one discusses possible issues with FMs done after the 12 required ones