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  1. #76
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    What if, as a leader, you see someone added to your group that you know has been a problem in the past? How does WoW (and how will LOTRO) handle that? Why would you want to start a group automatically with a troublemaker?

  2. #77

    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    We'll have a developer diary explaining the system and its initial implementation as we get closer to releasing Update 5. What I can say is that it's a system we plan to evolve and expand in the future and what is shipping in Update 5 is the first step. I'd encourage everyone who is interested in providing feedback and helping craft the future of this new tool to get on Bullroarer as soon as Update 5 is live (likely this week) and provide constructive, actionable feedback.

    Uhoh like the original GLFF tool? Or the Hobby system? Or the Housing system? Or the auto-scaling of instances? Or any number of the "interesting" quest techniques e.g. the shard instances thingies in Echad Dunnan and Delving Halls / the repeatales in GF Angmar and Lothlorien. Or even the forums which are still in "Beta".

    Heck even wheres the second part of the Legendary Update which I'm sure was being done in two parts?

    Looks like Turbine has a new "pet" project which will be full of promise and then left to rot by the wayside of not enough support.

    On the plus side I do so hope the mention of the token system means that Turbine are finally going to go through the game and get a proper unified loot system in place. The sheer amount of different ideas they've come up with from the original Angmar barter items to SFM and everything in between really needs tidying up!

  3. #78
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    I see a bunch of words in that interview, but none of them are an acknowledgement of the dramatic bugs in the Draigoch raid, and whether or not they are being addressed. Will it be fixed, or are they planning on leaving it to fade into obscurity? Can we get some kind of assurance that the new raid will actually be playable?

    As for the promise of an announcement of what's coming in 2012 -- please don't. You've made and broken so many promises that it's ridiculous. The customer-facing aspect of Turbine is so horrendous that you'd be better off just dropping the pretense. If you can't hire people who understand customer relations then stop talking -- just make content and deliver it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    What I can say is that it's a system we plan to evolve and expand in the future and what is shipping in Update 5 is the first step.
    This approach has worked well for you so far. Hobbies, LI revamp, etc. -- the strategy of releasing an unfinished, unpolished system and promise that there is more coming...then stop work on it and go silent on it forever more. Stick with the tried and true I suppose.
    Last edited by Fortinobrand; Nov 14 2011 at 12:55 PM.

  4. #79
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    Quote Originally Posted by peterbutt View Post
    What if, as a leader, you see someone added to your group that you know has been a problem in the past? How does WoW (and how will LOTRO) handle that? Why would you want to start a group automatically with a troublemaker?
    In WoW the leader can post a vote for removal. Its not shown to the person being voted against so he cant react to the vote with QQ or verbal warfare, if vote passes, that person is auto booted from instance.

    I would be shocked if lotro's IF didn't have a system like this.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000000fd8b5/signature.png]Grampsith[/charsig]

  5. #80
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyKOko View Post
    Aliens and Gaunlords are tricky thu... but breaching the Orthank? It is so much clear that no one can do this, not the wisest, nor the strongest. It's not about confronting Saruman... he can be killed as we already know. But fighting inside Orthank is just silly.
    We've already been inside Orthanc, it wasn't breached then who says it will breached now? The Old man himself might let us in (and then have us run a gauntlet or something).
    Re-ni-AN-nen - strayed (ppt. of renia- 'to stray')
    Aeled Reniannen, Defender of Middle-earth ~ Nendhiniel, Forge-Warden : Captain and Wardenette from [EN-RP] Laurelin
    Fluffrash, Blade of Barashish ~ Nathraen, Conqueror of Towers : Warg Puppy and Spider Tailor from the darker side thereof
    Faradwen, Swift-Arrow : Huntress from [EN-RE] Landroval


    As if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.
    ~~~~~
    Kári was a little Dwarf. / Smaller than you or me. / And wherever Kári went / He took his axe… or three.

  6. #81
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyKOko View Post
    And no one is confused by the raid breaching Orthank?
    What was impossible for the most wisest of the wizards, the Dunedain Leader and the mighty ents is worked out by a bunch of wanderers gathered random in glff?!? Ah, no glff.... an automated random group finder tool!
    This game is goin less LOTR with every update.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Mersky, Executive Director of Communications for Turbine, and Aaron Campbell, Senior Producer for LotRO
    The raid, called "The Tower of Orthanc," should prove very challenging - "In that, you're going to fight your way through, ultimately challenging Saruman himself. You're actually going to face him in battle." Lore purists may have an issue with this - there is no official account of any force actually breaching the tower to confront Saruman directly, even during the uprising and assault by the enraged ents of Fangorn Forest - but it should prove very interesting to actually come face to face with such an iconic and powerful villain.
    I was having a related conversation the other day about Saruman's motivation in Two Towers. Saruman is hungry for power and wants the Ring. He is in communication with Sauron and uses the relationship to gain details, but betrays Sauron by going for the Ring himself. Turbine has done a wonderful job of showing the buildup in Isengard in the quest with the Rohirrim Herald. Saruman says that dark forces are rising and one needs to see to his defences.

    The question remains, however, of why Saruman would choose to mobilize his force against Rohan at this time. Win or lose, he accomplishes nothing for his personal goal and the attack only serves to weaken his own forces. I originally thought it to be at the behest of Sauron as a diversionary attack to remove Gondor's ally. I was corrected that Saruman had already had the break with Sauron at that point when he tried to grab the Ring for himself (the Uruk-hai capturing Merry and Pippen and fighting with the orcs of Mordor on the return) only to fail and be empty handed when the Nazgul arrives. Perhaps the attack on Rohan is to appease Sauron for the failure to deliver the ring (and to cover the fact that Saruman never intended to deliver it). Perhaps he thinks the Rohirrim have successfully rescued the Hobbits and is harboring them; making it just another grab for power. Perhaps he is just in too deep and in his madness for the Ring lashes out at his closest enemy. Or perhaps there is another reason. Perhaps our assault on Isengard (regardless of outcome) worries Saruman and forces his hand. WE (well, technically, the Grey Company) could be the reason Saruman goes to war!
    Last edited by Mad_Bombardier; Nov 15 2011 at 10:12 AM.

  7. #82
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortinobrand View Post
    I see a bunch of words in that interview, but none of them are an acknowledgement of the dramatic bugs in the Draigoch raid, and whether or not they are being addressed. Will it be fixed, or are they planning on leaving it to fade into obscurity? Can we get some kind of assurance that the new raid will actually be playable?
    I actually did ask them about bug-fixing existing content. According to Adam: "We certainly know there were some sensitive spots, like the Pit of Iron, and we pulled together and worked very hard to get those resolved in our first major patch. It's there to nail a lot of those issues in this upcoming patch as we update into December. We are very much still focused on Isengard and area, even as we're planning for next year, so those areas are front and center."

    Make sure you /bug any problems you find during beta testing.

  8. #83
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    Well I'm excited. I have been wishing they would add an instance finder for a looooong time. I am also excited about the descriptions of the new instances, and no I do not have a problem confronting Saruman.

    I also agree about the Barter Wallet. I hope with the simplification of instance currencies they can finally get them all implemented into the Barter Wallet. (Rep currencies also, please)

  9. #84
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Bombardier View Post
    The question remains, however, of why Saruman would choose to mobilize his force against Rohan at this time. Win or lose, he accomplishes nothing for his personal goal and the attack only serves to weaken his own forces. I originally thought it to be at the behest of Sauron as a diversionary attack to remove Gondor's ally. I was corrected that Saruman had already had the break with Sauron at that point when he tried to grab the ring for himself (the Uruk-hai capturing Merry and Pippen and fighting with the orcs of Mordor on the return) only to fail and be empty handed when the Nazgul arrives. Perhaps the attack on Rohan is to appease Sauron for the failure to deliver the ring (and to cover the fact that Saruman never intended to deliver it). Perhaps he thinks the Rohirrim have successfully rescued the Hobbits and is harboring them; making it just another grab for power. Perhaps he is just in too deep and in his madness for the Ring lashes out at his closest enemy. Or perhaps there is another reason. Perhaps our assault on Isengard (regardless of outcome) worries Saruman and forces his hand. WE (well, technically, the Grey Company) could be the reason Saruman goes to war!
    Saruman has already been preparing for war, long before we arrive. Becoming a bad guy he needs to get rid of the good guys - Rohan. That's why he goes to war, with Rohan off the map his Orcs can move around unhindered.
    Re-ni-AN-nen - strayed (ppt. of renia- 'to stray')
    Aeled Reniannen, Defender of Middle-earth ~ Nendhiniel, Forge-Warden : Captain and Wardenette from [EN-RP] Laurelin
    Fluffrash, Blade of Barashish ~ Nathraen, Conqueror of Towers : Warg Puppy and Spider Tailor from the darker side thereof
    Faradwen, Swift-Arrow : Huntress from [EN-RE] Landroval


    As if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.
    ~~~~~
    Kári was a little Dwarf. / Smaller than you or me. / And wherever Kári went / He took his axe… or three.

  10. #85

    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    I have to be honest and say that the idea of fighting Saruman sounds awesome. While it's not in line with LoTR lore, it's something that I, as a player, would want to do. I don't want to be an errand boy, I want in on the best action! Obviously we can't defeat him there, so there has to be a different kind of resolution to the fight.

    Fellowship finder sounds good in theory, but... idea with GLFF is that you can control who you want to add in your fellowship. With the finder it sounds that it just adds people randomly and you could end up with terrible players. With a GLFF group you can inspect people, talk to them before invite etc. so I'd imagine they leave that option for those of us who want to have more control, but add a tool to fill a group out fast if you're just looking for easy content to run.

  11. #86
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    Quote Originally Posted by Loun View Post
    I have to be honest and say that the idea of fighting Saruman sounds awesome. While it's not in line with LoTR lore, it's something that I, as a player, would want to do. I don't want to be an errand boy, I want in on the best action! Obviously we can't defeat him there, so there has to be a different kind of resolution to the fight.

    Fellowship finder sounds good in theory, but... idea with GLFF is that you can control who you want to add in your fellowship. With the finder it sounds that it just adds people randomly and you could end up with terrible players. With a GLFF group you can inspect people, talk to them before invite etc. so I'd imagine they leave that option for those of us who want to have more control, but add a tool to fill a group out fast if you're just looking for easy content to run.
    Mr. Blue name dude said earlier in the thread that they will be adding to it as they go along-Which in Turbine speak means its launching in a Beta state because they cant properly test it in house or on a test server-So prop a bear bones working tool and add to it after they get some proper testing done-On live.

    Which I'm fine with, I just hope the IF updates maintain a priority. The moment they start bumping features of the game for new ones-We get IA, Housing, PvMP, LUA, ect ect
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000000fd8b5/signature.png]Grampsith[/charsig]

  12. #87

    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    The people finding a plausible justification for 12 guys taking on Saruman in his own stronghold will no doubt find a valid reason for us getting into Barad-Dur and heroically guiding Sauron's eye away from Frodo as he enters Mount Doom.

    Both are equally unjustified in pure lore terms, but both make for better headlines in the marketing for this game.

  13. #88
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    Quote Originally Posted by SerendipityUK View Post
    The people finding a plausible justification for 12 guys taking on Saruman in his own stronghold will no doubt find a valid reason for us getting into Barad-Dur and heroically guiding Sauron's eye away from Frodo as he enters Mount Doom.

    Both are equally unjustified in pure lore terms, but both make for better headlines in the marketing for this game.
    The DeathStar's defenses are designed around a full scale attack. A single man fighter...

    Oh wait...

  14. #89
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    A dungeon finder was introduced to another game I used to play, but people hardly ever used it, they kept looking on the regional and global chats just like they did before.

    Pretty glad the new instance cluster will finally be out soon ... Should reduce the amount of spam in the forums.

  15. #90
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    Remember people, take everything Turbine says with a (very large) grain of salt. Just because they say we're going to be "facing Saruman in battle" doesn't mean we're actually going to be fighting him. Facing and Fighting are two different things. Remember, Turbine likes to be tricksy with their marketing verbage.

    And, honestly there's really nothing new for those that don't partake in raids and what not in this update other than the Epic Book, so most people are going to burn through that in two days and then be bored or move on to something else.

    The only thing that sticks out for me is that they are FINALLY getting rid of the "Medallions of..." in favor of one or two (or three if you count Skirmish Marks) currencies. The new instance panel will probably be broken just like everything else is in the game, and once they lose the developer working on it, no one will follow up on it, just like everything else in the game.

    From what I've read thus far, Update 5 isn't showing much promise.

  16. #91
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    Quote Originally Posted by Reniannen View Post
    Saruman has already been preparing for war, long before we arrive. Becoming a bad guy he needs to get rid of the good guys - Rohan. That's why he goes to war, with Rohan off the map his Orcs can move around unhindered.
    Correct that Saruman's been busy for a long time. That still doesn't explain the timing of his attack. Even bad guys need strategic motivation. At this time, he is in communication with Sauron and should (or at the very least could) know of the impending attack against Minas Tirith. And yet, he goes to war prematurely. It makes no sense for him to be the first to strike in the War of the Ring. I failed to mention above, but perhaps he wants to use the momentum of his two skirmish victories at the Battles of the Fords of Isen.

    We also know that prior to the attacks, Gandalf and the Three Hunters aid Theoden and Grima is banished from Edoras. I am unsure of the dates, but perhaps the missing piece of puzzle is Grima's arrival and news of Theoden being aided. That leans towards the now or never line of Saruman's motivation and works with the above victory momentum.

    Edit: Found the dates. Grima was banished on the same day as Saruman's victory at the Second Battle; 2 March. Helm's Deep is midway between Isengard and Edoras, meaning both groups could arrive on 3 March. But, it's not enough time for Grima to get to Isengard and for Saruman to launch the attack on the same day. So, that's out. Saruman knew nothing of Aragorn or Theoden's release. Which brings us back to a premature assault...
    Last edited by Mad_Bombardier; Nov 14 2011 at 02:28 PM.

  17. #92
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    Quote Originally Posted by Grampsaz View Post
    In WoW the leader can post a vote for removal. Its not shown to the person being voted against so he cant react to the vote with QQ or verbal warfare, if vote passes, that person is auto booted from instance.

    I would be shocked if lotro's IF didn't have a system like this.
    ewwww I dont like that at all.. If you are leading a instance, You should have the ability to form the group as you choose.

    Im really really REALLY hesitent on this.

    Im assuming you can just by pass this.

    I kind of wish they ignore this, people who want to run stuff, run it, people who dont dont. Why do we need anything else besides what we have? sure 90% of glff is some moors QQ .. but hey its fun to see people worked up about nothing for so many hours =P

    Cross SERVER would be a disaster, NINJA loot would rule the day. Why not.. you may never see player # 455555 ever again anyways.

    You get familiar with names.. not player x class y... Its the names of poeple you have run with, died with, triumphed with that matters. =(.

  18. #93

    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    If I wasn't leaving Lotro for TOR already, this update would be the last nail in the coffin for me.

    First and foremost is the content. My prefered content is 6mans. i love them. They are big enough to feel epic, have some lovely scripted bosses etc, whilst being small enough in group size to be easy to put together, lead and have a laugh with your mates. The last "good" 6man we got in my opinion was SG. It was challenging to learn initially, but easy to conquer, had some interesting mechanics but also allowed varied grp makeups and opened itself up to personally challenges (i.e. speed runs). LT and SS were interesting, but too long and if you took 1 or 2 people who weren't particularly good, you'd wipe. So, to only have 1 new 6man is a kick in the teeth for me.

    Second, the dungeon finder. I can't see how this will work. Do you specify roles, i.e. healer, tank, dps, support? Or do you specify classes? How do I, as a raid leader, specify that I need a burglar traited QK with FA cd legacy and trip legendary? If i cant be that specific, then the tool is no longer useful. If I can be that specific then certain classes are guarunteed to get shafted for certain instances. For example, why would anyone take a LM to a 3man? Also, how do you add options? For example, I'd be happy to take either RK or Mini healing, but I specifically want a champ for DPS.

    No matter what they do with the tool, I just can't see it being good enough for general useage. it'll be used for easy content only. Ofc, I still have the option to use global / ooc / lff channels but if chat channels are better, why bother wasting time and money on this tool?

    Nevermind. Heres hoping TOR is good....

  19. #94

    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    What I can say is that it's a system we plan to evolve and expand in the future and what is shipping in Update 5 is the first step.
    PvMP skirmishes/arena battles!

    This is obviously the first step in the tech one would need to implement something like that; plus all the “new PvMP area but not a new PvMP area” double talk we got earlier in the year kind of supports it.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/072060000000a08f4/signature.png]Ragnrat[/charsig]

  20. #95
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifern View Post
    If I wasn't leaving Lotro for TOR already, this update would be the last nail in the coffin for me.

    First and foremost is the content. My prefered content is 6mans. i love them. They are big enough to feel epic, have some lovely scripted bosses etc, whilst being small enough in group size to be easy to put together, lead and have a laugh with your mates. The last "good" 6man we got in my opinion was SG. It was challenging to learn initially, but easy to conquer, had some interesting mechanics but also allowed varied grp makeups and opened itself up to personally challenges (i.e. speed runs). LT and SS were interesting, but too long and if you took 1 or 2 people who weren't particularly good, you'd wipe. So, to only have 1 new 6man is a kick in the teeth for me.

    Second, the dungeon finder. I can't see how this will work. Do you specify roles, i.e. healer, tank, dps, support? Or do you specify classes? How do I, as a raid leader, specify that I need a burglar traited QK with FA cd legacy and trip legendary? If i cant be that specific, then the tool is no longer useful. If I can be that specific then certain classes are guarunteed to get shafted for certain instances. For example, why would anyone take a LM to a 3man? Also, how do you add options? For example, I'd be happy to take either RK or Mini healing, but I specifically want a champ for DPS.

    No matter what they do with the tool, I just can't see it being good enough for general useage. it'll be used for easy content only. Ofc, I still have the option to use global / ooc / lff channels but if chat channels are better, why bother wasting time and money on this tool?

    Nevermind. Heres hoping TOR is good....
    I think pugging in general may not be for you.

    99% of my GLFF ads have always been "LF1M any class." That's because as a captain/champ duo, my partner and I have a lot of flexibility for 3 and 6 man group setups. I'm not sure how this will put together anything much different than a normal pug.

    The "expansion" was missing 2 things, IMHO: an instance cluster and new technology. Well here ya go.
    [CENTER][B][COLOR=#ffa500]Clarrow PeopleEater - R12 (finally!) BA[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#ee82ee]Clarysta [/COLOR][/B][COLOR=#ee82ee]- Lvl 100 Captain - Wannabe Freep R4[/COLOR]
    [I]Twitter - @clarystainsun[/I]
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  21. #96
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    The only thing that really bothers me is the new armor. I just recently got my 4th class piece on my main, and haven't even been able to start on my other raiding character. And now, in about a month, I'm going to have to start all over?
    [center]Elendilmir - Rimsilval[/center]
    [color=green][center]Arness Hunter; Ashuri, Champ, Rozie LM, Velan Minstrel; Kynra Captain; Ryssa RK;[/color][/center]

  22. #97
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    Quote Originally Posted by Arness View Post
    The only thing that really bothers me is the new armor. I just recently got my 4th class piece on my main, and haven't even been able to start on my other raiding character. And now, in about a month, I'm going to have to start all over?
    Odds are the new gear will be sidegrades.

  23. #98

    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    I can think of several ways the "fight with Saruman" could ensue.

    First possibility, and possibly the most practical, we come to Orthanc and he lets us in, possibly to gain information regarding the ring and the fellowship from us in a more forcible way. Being a sensible adventurer, however, you've come along with your twelve best buddies, all armed to the teeth and coming off a fresh Dragon-defeat. Saruman attempts to kill you/incapacitate you after you refuse him the information, but you manage to escape.

    Second possibility: we're captured again while sneaking around Isengard. Saruman takes us to his tower to interrogate us for information. Repeat the above scenario.

    Or, we could lie our way in and say we had a change of heart and we're going to give him info, perhaps guided by some Rohirrim or Ranger attempting to break in. Then we try to kill him, but he's too powerful and we barely escape with our lives.

    Heck, we could even embark on a rescue mission for a certain ranger we left behind. We march right into Orthanc, demand he be returned to us, but eventually have to run away, perhaps even saving him.

    As for rewards, I can see us finding some hidden trove or something of that sort on the way out. Saruman had plenty of magic items in Orthanc, right?

    I'm a bit cautious reading about the raid-finder, though. Depending on the type of attitude per server, it could be really bad or really good. We'll have to wait and see though.

    All in all, I think update 5 will be great. Can't wait to see what the new instances are like, especially since I never really got to run much of the In Their Absence stuff (I hit 65 close to when RoI was announced, and I figured that running them for gear would be pointless since it would be obsolete in a few months).
    Last edited by ThePuzzler; Nov 14 2011 at 05:21 PM.

  24. #99
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhouri View Post
    That's the crux with people who know nothing but WoW besides LOTRO. There's an MMO world besides. I imagine they make the new tool much more similar to the one used in DDO than the WoW one, simply because it's the same technology. And that one is awesome.
    I agree, the DDO one is ideal, and Turbine owns it, which is why I've been an advocate of simply "porting" it to LotRO.

    However, the article makes it sound like they copied the dungeon queue system of WoW, albeit on a server level. Hope I misunderstand it...

  25. #100
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    Re: Update 5 - new dungeon finder tool and raid against Saruman

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyGigi View Post
    All in all, sounds like a good update. Too bad it was supposed to be part of RoI and never made it.
    the instances were supposed to be part of RoI, not the rest of the update

 

 
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