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  1. #26

    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    Quote Originally Posted by Ingaras View Post
    The yellow line isn't that bad since the latest inception... it's just that there's no place for it.
    - We already have quite a bit of cc when not yellow traited (RoT, Bard's, trap-skills, crafted traps), which reduces the impact of 'traiting CC'
    As practically every class can almost match us for dps as well as bring their main/secondary utility to the table Hunters cannot afford to trait yellow. Too much dps downside for very little CC upside. Most big stuff breezes through our traps and ignores fears and stuns anyway.

    Trapper line is beyond tinkering with. Either it needs replacing entirely or it has to be given some massive advantages.

    Fears that work, on shorter cooldowns. Traps with shorter and independent cooldowns that can be used in combat. Scaled damage on traps. Being able to fight on the move. Turbine - you've tried tinkering for years - culminating in the latest Epic Fail. Stop tinkering. In fact stop nerfing hunters with every change. You're destroying the class.

    A new dev? An absolute must.

  2. #27
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    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    My votes:

    4) Hunter's Art is changed
    5) Split Shot is changed
    7) Induction/focus crit and power legacies are consolidated, one for crit, one for power
    8) Blindside's interrupt comes at the beginning of the animation
    11) Adjust or blow up the Trapper Line
    12) Give hunters either true Top Tier DPS or a larger support role
    16) Scale Heartseeker and Shot Through The Heart
    21) Return Strong Draw to its pre-ROI incarnation

  3. #28
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    414

    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    Updated for last nights participation.

    Deaddove, I didn't really follow your suggestion with points K or L. Could you try and restate K a bit or can someone help me with that one? I don't know how to word it to add it to the list.

    With L, we have shots that fear and wound, and Free People its been determined cannot use Poison or Disease as that is "evil", so I'm going to not add that one unless you can expand it further?

    I've updated those suggestions with over 5 Likes to Green.

  4. #29

    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    All looks good and we seriously need a hunter dev who is actually playing a hunter and trying to improve the class, which has now been gimped for years.

    The trapper line is a wreck. It needs to be redone completely and imo has to serve two purposes

    1. Provide real CC options, short cooldown, instant combat usable traps (skill not consumable) etc
    2. Improve survivability in melee, mitigation buff, melee damage boost, AOE stun

    Campfire should provide a much wanted buff to the group in and out of combat or what use is it? Right now it takes too long to regain the power lost casting the skill. It should be a fighting base skill, cast it at a point everyone can run back to when in trouble, it provides very high out of combat regen and high enough in combat regen. So the group can run back to the fire (close range, 3 or 4 meters) to regen if needed, I would also make it provide an agility boost to anyone in range hence dps boost to hunters who take stand and support their group with damage from range, OUR JOB!

    The campfire thing makes me think that what LOTRo needs is simple group buffs that can only work with a proper fellowship group, each class should have 1 or more fellowship buff skilss, like campfire, but they only work when everyone is using them in combination. So hunters campfire is only going to provide the highest in combat regen IF the mini has put a pot of soup on the fire (dumb example I know), create skills that work when mixed classes use them wisely.

    Our DPS can be fine, but it could do with better thought through mechanics, there is no DPS when you're dead and a hunter getting hit in a high end instance is a dead hunter these days

  5. #30
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    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    I will gladly +1 these:

    Quote Originally Posted by Estranger View Post
    3) Bright Campfire is changed to provide more In-combat and OOC buffs
    4) Hunter's Art is changed
    5) Split Shot is changed
    6) Improved Focus is changed
    7) Induction/focus crit and power legacies are consolidated, one for crit, one for power
    8) Blindside's interrupt comes at the beginning of the animation
    14) Additional Return to Camp anchors
    18) Ranged Interrupt
    20) Allow us to use Quick Shot on the move
    24) Find the Path works In Combat

  6. #31

    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    I've already posted this once in the Hunter forums (Pre-RoI) and I really don't care if these have been suggested, I'm posting them again with a few slight changes.

    Yellow Line should make Set Trap and Set Snare into Improved versions, tossing out 3 Traps like a Triple-Trap, and 3 Snares like the Black Arrow triple snares.

    Set Trap and Set Snare should be on seperate CD (Can't believe how this isn't painfully obvious)

    Yellow line should also reduce the CD of all Hand-Wrought traps to regular traps or split up the CD for each trap type

    Should also lengthen how long a trap is placed for. Make it 3m (Like the Hand-Wrought Bear Traps)

    Should increase all damage done from ALL traps and snares, including the snare DoT

    Should make Cry of the Predator Improved to affect ALL/MORE types of creatures and reduce the CD on it

    Should make Blood Arrow give an incoming damage debuff on the target (Pen. Shot is decreasing EBP, why not)

    Should maze Dazing Blow a frontal AOE and increase the duration by 10s

    Should make Split-Shot into a ranged Root/Knock Down with a longer CD, call it Bolo Shot or Net Arrow

    Oh, and make it where CC ACTUALLY AFFECTS THE FREAKING MOBS. I can't tell you how sick and tired I am of LANDSCAPE MOBS being immune to ALL CC, much less some of the instance mobs.

    And this is just for the horrible Yellow-line
    Last edited by Eckenbrand; Nov 04 2011 at 02:19 PM.
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  7. #32

    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    1) Reduce animation time on Hunter's Art skill.

    2) Increase Swift Bow damage to compensate for the long induction time.

    3) While we're at it, scale ALL Hunter DPS to match increased Creep morale pools in PvMP. If we're going to be glass cannons then we really should be carrying a big canon. At this point, even with a maxed 2A bow, we are not.

    In PvMP Hunters have become the new Infamy nodes. To increase PvMP survivability:

    1) Give Hunters Moving Target or a similar evade skill, with duration and CD equal to that of BAs.

    2) Make Find the Path buff remain while in-combat.

    3) Give Hunters a Cure Fire skill to remove up to 3 fire DoTs per use, on shared CD with Cure Poison.

    4) Return in-combat Desperate Flight.

    5) Make Cry of the Predator a non-potable skill.

    6) Provide Hunters with increased base morale.
    Last edited by TreborPar; Nov 04 2011 at 04:06 PM.
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  8. #33
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    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    These suggestions are all somewhat geared toward my style of play and may be a bit biased. None of them are suggestions regarding Hunters Art or Split Shot. Both skills have uses although severely limited. While both could be better, I personally prefer them as is. If Hunter's Art improves by too much I would have to include it in my rotation and pay attention to keeping it up at all times. Honestly, that doesn't interest me. I'm a Rain of Arrows traited hunter so the split shot is only useful in groups if I don't crit. Frankly, that is just fine. Not every skill on the bar needs to be used as long as enough exists to make a rotation. Honestly tho, many of our idea's aren't that good I'm not going to criticize any of them specifically as it's not supposed to be that kinda of thread but I can kind of see why ZC might ignore us.



    First suggestion:

    Slightly modify the trapper line. Currently the trapper line has some nice and useful skills and traits the problem is that much of it becomes of less use in group content and in better gear.

    Problem 1: The penetrating shot debuff would be great, but at cap virtually everyone seems to have a large amount of finesse which makes it pointless.

    Solution 1: Instead of applying Finesse directly apply Attacker Finesse - Defender Finesse this will make debuffing b/p/r have more of a point again as it will reduce the amount that the persons defenses are reduced by. As a side effect it will also make the hunters evade and parry a more viable defense.

    Problem 2: Bard's Arrow is a great CC skill for solo actions but in groups it tends to agro more foes or reset content

    Solution 2: Change the AI behavior when feared so that the npc's does not leave the area and does not pull any allies.

    Problem 3: CC is great for solo but in groups AOE damage tends to be better for much of the content that can be CC'd and large amounts of content is CC Immune.

    Solution 3: When a target is immune to cc and cc is used against it the target is debuffed and interrupted.

    Second Suggestion: Hunter's Melee has gotten a lot better after getting a bit worse in the update before last. Sadly, it still has limited viability.

    Problem 1: Hunter Melee Skills spend too much time on cool down even traited the cooldown is 3 seconds

    Solution 1: Either add a new skill that is just Melee DPS or reduce the cool down's further or reduce cool down's further when traited

    Problem 2: Melee Skils Power Cost Too Much to use for an extended period

    Solution 2: Put the Legacy for Melee Power Cost back into the game or apply Wind Rider's/ Endurance Stance / Heightened Senses Power

    Problem 3: 2 of the 3 Hunter Capstones and one of the stances only Benefit Ranged Actions

    Solution 3: Give Improved Fleet Stance back + 10% Attack Duration and Apply Burn Hot to both melee and ranged damage. Provide the +10% damage from Strength to Melee Damage as well. Improved Focus should apply to melee as well as ranged (this probably doesn't matter as I'm pretty sure most people spam focus heavy attack and it only lasts for 5 seconds)


    Suggestion 3: Some Legacies/ Skills are a bit broken/ weak

    Problem 1: Campfire is weak

    Solution 1: Scale Campfire to be even with the out of combat food.

    Problem 2: Improved Strength of the Earth Morale Legacy is useless

    Solution 2: Change the legacy from an increase in morale healed to an increase in duration

  9. #34

    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    time to bring back an old thing: for purge poison remove animation/make it shorter, remove root (im not sure if this one is real but ive heard others mention it and ive expienced it), and allow to be used on the move.

    new skill for later on (though i think rks may have it): a skill that would do medium to low damage and when used would show a short animation of u throwing something and would give a short stun and make a flash of white on the targets screen (this part would be for pvp), there is also a skill like this that the glowing balls of light in ened. have

  10. #35
    Join Date
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    101

    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    Thanks for the effort. +rep to you. I just hope it doesn't go wasted. Anyhow, my votes go to 1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 11, 12, 16, 18, 20, 29, 37 (only if traited 4 deep into yellow). I don't get what 25 and 41 mean though.
    Last edited by NecrosIX; Nov 04 2011 at 07:22 PM.

  11. #36
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    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    For the sake of having an imagination, some improved skills and ideas for any future updates:

    1) Improved Hunter's Art: Extended duration of the buff to 30s/A more powerful buff (e.g +10% Ranged Damage S:S, +1396 Finesse S:P, +346.5 ICPR S:E)

    2) Improved Split Shot: Has a 50% chance for one arrow to hit multiple targets thus increasing AoE capacity.

    3) Improved Quick Shot: Usable on the move with a 1s Cooldown (Or could be similar to the Rune-keeper's, ceaseless argument)

    4) Improved Blood Arrow: Interrupts the opponent (A ranged interrupt please)

    5) Improved Barbed Arrow: Reinstate the duration back to 20s (as said in a previous suggestion here)

    6) Improved Campsite: Lasts 2 minutes longer and provides +hope so it is useful in combat.

    7) Improved Swift-Strike: Places an even evade buff as it does parry.

    8) Improved Camouflage: +3 Stealth Level and able to move at -80% movement speed.

    9) Improved Find the Path: Provides the speed buff in-combat.

    10) Improved Agile Rejoinder: Provides +35% Evade chance in addition to the Heal over Time (if they contain the legacy)


    Similarly, a few skills that could be implemented to make a hunter able to hunt could be:

    1) Silent Flourish: An induction skill that is released in less than a second which stuns the enemy for 1s.

    2) True Bow: An immediate skill that lasts throughout combat. It increases your critical chance during the phase of combat, but will require a +20% chance power skill usage.

    3) Piercing Swipe: A melee skill that reduces the Block/Parry/Evade chance of the opponent by (example) -850 points.


    And because I am bored, may as well say some trait ideas if they ever decide to add one more trait to each line.

    Trapper of Foes - Predator to Prey: When an enemy walks into a trap set by you. You will gain an ambush buff, which increases your ranged damage by 5% for 10s and an increased critical chance for your next ranged attack.

    Bowmaster - Tough Blood: Reduces the morale requirement of Blood Arrow by 2%.

    (I am ashamed to forget the blue trait line) - Hasty Encounter: Improves Needful Haste to give more benefits to the buffs it already gives (So instead of -25% Speed duration, it would be -40% Speed duration)


    This is what one comes up with when they have 10 minutes of spare time. I'm just a bored hunter waiting for something good to come our way
    Last edited by zalladi; Nov 04 2011 at 07:41 PM. Reason: Forgot to proof-read
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  12. #37
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    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    I'll make it easy for you to update. Left some #s out that i'm indifferent about.


    2) +

    3) +

    4) ++

    5) ++

    7) ++

    9) + yes but only with CD increased, can't have both

    11) +

    17) +

    19) +

    22) ++

    25) ++ for any skill that provides more survivability

    26) Return Desperate Flight to the Ettenmoors - 2 Like

    27) -

    33) +

    37) +

    41) - every CC skill, snare should be pottable
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  13. #38

    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    You guys realize all of this is wishful thinking right? I would be super surprised if any of these ever made it to live.

  14. #39
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    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    Quote Originally Posted by harkamsu View Post
    You guys realize all of this is wishful thinking right? I would be super surprised if any of these ever made it to live.
    Yes, pretty slim but not impossible and no harm in trying. If it saves ZC time by not having to level the hunter he rolled past '12' in order to get a better feel for how the class works then so much the better. I hope it serves as generally balanced customer stear on what might be done to fix things.

  15. #40
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    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    Quote Originally Posted by harkamsu View Post
    You guys realize all of this is wishful thinking right? I would be super surprised if any of these ever made it to live.

    Many of you arent familiar with Zombie Columbus i assume......if there is one dev you really want to have in your corner to overhaul the hunter, its him. Nothin is guaranteed but...your chances of having a better(read: godmode) class go way up w/ him around.
    Ridduk R14 WL
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  16. #41

    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheart-Fury View Post
    Many of you arent familiar with Zombie Columbus i assume......if there is one dev you really want to have in your corner to overhaul the hunter, its him. Nothin is guaranteed but...your chances of having a better(read: godmode) class go way up w/ him around.
    As the countless happy, clappy threads since his last efforts testify.

  17. #42
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    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kongas View Post
    As the countless happy, clappy threads since his last efforts testify.

    Patience, young padawan.
    Ridduk R14 WL
    Brandywine

  18. #43

    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheart-Fury View Post
    Patience, young padawan.
    Sorry, the 'Trust ZC' ship sailed so long ago it had time hit an iceberg and spawn a couple of hit movies.

  19. #44

    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    Merciful shot is rarely used due to the high focus cost, need for target to be at half health, and the poor damage ratio compared to blood arrow and pen shot. This skill needs a major overhaul to greatly increase damage or to lower the focus cost.

    Remove heightened senses tracking should be innate by level 60!

    Bards and distracting shot should be immediate skills in TOF.

    Endurance stance should buff our armor by 50%.
    Melee skills and damage need to be revamped I'd like to see some significant increases if you are going to have so much cc reductions do to pots and skills in pvmp.

    If someone can disarm me then I should be able to disable a swing or a spell from an arrow impact from ranged as well.

    As for trusting ZC we asked and basically begged him to look at these problems before ROI was released and not only did he ignore our requests he decided to take a few shots at the hunter community in another class forum. A lot of good will went out the door, so I will not be holding my breath. All we needed was a few tweaks from last book, but what we got was a complete restructuring of the class when none was needed.
    Last edited by Tinluen; Nov 06 2011 at 05:46 PM.
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  20. #45
    Join Date
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    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    Remove 1st QS induction, everyone after is .5s

    Ranged Interrupt that IS NOT a stun, fear, daze. Like something called blunt arrow, that is a 2 focus shot on like a 15 second cd. Make it a very fast still with little to no animation because it is an interrupt.

    Remove Split shot and HA or change it completely.

    Thats all.

    Thanks.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/012030000001405a0/signature.png]Magneticthor[/charsig]
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  21. #46

    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    Quote Originally Posted by Estranger View Post
    2) Low cut always removes a slow without the need for PVP gear - 2 Like

    ...

    6) Improved Focus is changed - 1 like

    ...

    10) Strength of the Earth's pre-EotD's magnitude is restored -1 Like

    ...

    16) Scale Heartseeker and Shot Through The Hear - 5 like

    ...

    23) Buff Stances Strength and Endurance to compete with the focus generation & Crit Multiplier of Precision

    24) Find the Path works In Combat - 3 Like

    ...

    27) Make an Inductionless Heartseeker

    28) Double Out of Combat runspeed of Find the Path

    29) Hunter Bubble, either on its own, or when SotE or Press On are activated - 2 Like

    30) Give us a trait that will temporarily increase our ranged distance
    Most of the suggestions were legitimate in my opinion, though if we got all of them we would be WAY OP. Regardless, the one's quoted above are quite unreasonable if you think of where it would put the hunters relative to other classes...

    The only place we usually need to remove slows is the moors, so pvp gear makes sense for that...

    I honestly have no idea what is wrong with IF, its a free +25% crit chance and mult at the beginning of fights...

    SotE was WAY OP a while ago. I gave a full power bar back in like 5s, though I loved it, it did need a nerf (though it was nerfed more than I thought it would be)

    Scale HS??? It hits crazy hard. I was just messing around with a cappy and dev well over 20k (did have OB). By myself in real gameplay i am seeing 7-10k devs in moors (depends on class and rank) and 10-13k devs in raids (when I have no OB or 2arms sad day). I think it hits plenty hard enough, but that is just me. Though appreciate the nostalgia of Book 6 hunters lol. That said, I admit STtH needs to be scaled badly.

    I agree strength needs A) damage increased to compete with precision or B) THREAT added back (I miss my hunter tank). Endurance however, is not supposed to hit as hard...It is to save power and keep threat down?

    FtP in combat...HAHA hunters would run way too fast for the moors, maybe take the suggestion that add a sprint buff to NH (that makes sense...short, descent cd, fits the name...lol). (To prove my point if I had a permanent +21% in combat run speed, I would solo Fear boss of OD cuz i would keep IFS up and kite haha +31% ftw)

    Inductionless HS...WHATTTT? See previous statement concerning HS.

    Double FtP? That would give the fellow 42%...that is approaching mount speed. Maybe 30 max. Though I think it is fine.

    Hunter bubble...haha jumping on the champ bandwagon...we shouldn't need a bubble, that is what the healers are for. Though I agree more morale was be good. Next gear set?

    More ranged distance lol. You realize we would be able to exploit soooo many things haha. Nothing could hit us at that range.

    Just my personal critiques. Otherwise, I like all of the others...(is that allowed).
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  22. #47
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    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    My votes go for:
    Quote Originally Posted by Estranger View Post

    7) Induction/focus crit and power legacies are consolidated, one for crit, one for power

    8) Blindside's interrupt comes at the beginning of the animation

    9) Needful Haste's pre-ROI duration is restored

    15) Include Split Shot in the Fast Draw trait - 1 like

    18) Ranged Interrupt - 3 like

    19) Barbed Arrow bleed duration returned to pre-EotD level -
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  23. #48

    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheart-Fury View Post
    Many of you arent familiar with Zombie Columbus i assume......if there is one dev you really want to have in your corner to overhaul the hunter, its him. Nothin is guaranteed but...your chances of having a better(read: godmode) class go way up w/ him around.
    My faith in ZC died long ago. If ZC is so good, well I hate to see what truly bad is.

  24. #49

    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    Quote Originally Posted by Estranger View Post

    2) Low cut always removes a slow without the need for PVP gear

    3) Bright Campfire is changed to provide more In-combat and OOC buffs


    7) Induction/focus crit and power legacies are consolidated, one for crit, one for power

    8) Blindside's interrupt comes at the beginning of the animation

    9) Needful Haste's pre-ROI duration is restored

    10) Strength of the Earth's pre-EotD's magnitude is restored
    11) Adjust or blow up the Trapper Line

    12) Give hunters either true Top Tier DPS or a larger support role
    14) Additional Return to Camp anchors

    16) Scale Heartseeker and Shot Through The Hear -

    18) Ranged Interrupt

    20) Allow us to use Quick Shot on the move
    22) Hunter version of the Black Arrow's Skirmisher Stance

    23) Buff Stances Strength and Endurance to compete with the focus generation & Crit Multiplier of Precision

    42) Provide hunters with increased base morale
    All liked.

    Also

    a/ If a hunter isn't in melee range of any mobs, they get a bonus to ranged damage on mobs that aren't aggroed on that hunter. Essentially, if nothing is jogging your elbows, and the target is concentrating on someone else, they're easier to hit. This gives hunters a boost to dps in fellowships, without affecting solo play, which should make it easier to keep both balanced.
    b/ For an alternative class item, reusable traps. This would be in addition to the current books, effectively giving the hunter a third trap skill of their choice, if they want to give up the benefits the books give. Reusable traps would probably get more use than the current consumables.
    c/ A bonus to crit chance when firing from stealth.

  25. #50
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    414

    Re: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

    Updated. Sometime today I'm going to consolidate and reformat the list. Unless there are any strong (and reasonable lol) objections, I'm going to drop off some of the more specific ideas and change them to very general and based specifically on the skills that currently exist.

 

 
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