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  1. #1

    RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    From the Crafting Dev Diary:

    For Farmers, a lot of time is spent in fields and at the workbench so we’ve added new ways to increase harvest yields and improve production efficiency.
    Indeed, I notice that we can now process 5 fair crops at a time. But what's this? One crop now equals one produce instead of the usual four? (I was pretty much farming just Black Barley this morning, but I'm assuming this holds true for other Westfold crops.) That means I have to buy, plant, and harvest 4 times as many crops to get the same amount of yield as I used to. Only then can I save time by processing 5 at a time. But the processing phase has always been, for me, the least time consuming. I can walk away and make dinner, or change diapers, or hitchhike across country.

    So it seems that if, as stated above, the intent is to lower the amount of time spent on farming, Westfold is an astounding failure. Am I missing something here? Is there a facet or aspect that will change this dynamic as I level?
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  2. #2
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Quote Originally Posted by NazgulLord View Post
    From the Crafting Dev Diary:



    Indeed, I notice that we can now process 5 fair crops at a time. But what's this? One crop now equals one produce instead of the usual four? (I was pretty much farming just Black Barley this morning, but I'm assuming this holds true for other Westfold crops.) That means I have to buy, plant, and harvest 4 times as many crops to get the same amount of yield as I used to. Only then can I save time by processing 5 at a time. But the processing phase has always been, for me, the least time consuming. I can walk away and make dinner, or change diapers, or hitchhike across country.

    So it seems that if, as stated above, the intent is to lower the amount of time spent on farming, Westfold is an astounding failure. Am I missing something here? Is there a facet or aspect that will change this dynamic as I level?
    SO MUCH THIS. ^

    I was really unhappy last night when I decided to dabble in a little farming and cooking. Yes, we can process 5 crops at a time now. But ONE crop yielding ONE produce (instead of four) is a very, very significant slam. It means I'm spending 20% less time at the workbench, but paying for it by needing to spend 400% more time in the field. Net effect? Farming takes more than three times as long as it used to.

    Like you, I'm wondering what on earth Turbine was thinking. If left unchanged, the amount of time we are going to need to spend farming barley, just to make our repasts, is staggering. Did they really intend this?

    Would really like an official response, something to the effect of "Yes, we decided farming should take a lot longer." I'd hate to think it was just an oversight.
    Last edited by Evebel; Sep 27 2011 at 05:09 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evebel View Post
    But ONE crop yielding ONE produce (instead of four) is a very, very significant slam.
    I admit I only tested Westfold field recipes, but I was getting easily 8 to 10 crops per field with well tended hearty fields. Basically, the more expensive seeds give you the yields you are used to. Monsanto has come to Middle Earth.
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  4. #4
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
    I admit I only tested Westfold field recipes, but I was getting easily 8 to 10 crops per field with well tended hearty fields. Basically, the more expensive seeds give you the yields you are used to. Monsanto has come to Middle Earth.
    Sometimes. Other times, even with a "hearty" field, I was getting only 4 or 5. And remember, even when you get a "good" 8-10, that translates to only 8-10 produce.

    Before, those 8-10 crops would have yielded 32-40 produce.

    Before, if you got a terrible field yield of 2 crops, you could still take them over to the workbench and get 8 produce out of it. And most fields were yielding MUCH higher. I would typically plant 5 fields and get 35-40 crops, which could then be processed into about 150 produce.

    To get that same 150 produce now, you need to plant at LEAST 15 fields, and probably on average 20. It's a very significant increase in the amount of time you have to spend in the field, planting and harvesting your crops.
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  5. #5
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    I have had a bit of a run through the farming today. My initial reaction is one of not being happy with the changes but that is a personal thing. I want to mention/explain the costs now associated with farming so people can understand the marked increases in prices on the AH they are going to see for T7 crops and food compared to previous Tiers.

    Previously the costs associated with farming were modest.

    20 fields T1 to T3 would cost you between 20 to 25ish silver depending on repair fees. This would generate at least 4 stacks of end use product once sorting was finished.

    20 fields T4 to T6 would cost you between 30 to 35ish silver depending on repair fees. This would generate at least 4 stacks of end use product once sorting was finished.

    The new changes brought in to sorting mean that we no longer get our 4 stacks of end product from 1 stack of fair crops. This has been reduced to a 1:1 ratio from 1:4. In effect our output has been reduced by 75%. I realise that there are people out there who sell crops at outrageous prices, This will not get better with these changes.

    Now we have T7

    T7 introduces the hearty crop as well as the standard crop. You can no longer purchase the crit item it has to come from the fields you are harvesting and I am told can also come as drops in the new regions. (can someone confirm this last please?) The only benefit from this crit material is we no longer have to pay for it. To be frank I would rather pay for it myself - but that is just my opinion.

    20 fields of T7 will cost you 96 silver plus repairs - so roughly 100 silver. I have had to run this test without using any crit materials as I smiply haven't harvested enough yet. It yielded roughly 70 crops each time.

    20 fields of T7 Hearty fields will cost you 288 silver plus repairs and again I had no critting material here yet. It yeided roughly 130 - 145 ish each time, hopefully the crit material will improve this.

    Naturally these costs will affect the prices of crops bought on the AH and also of food made with said crops. The cooks will still have to make their profit too.

    To sum up:
    Massive price increases at the T7 level compared to other farming levels coupled with massive reductions in end product over all levels produced. In other words it costs us a lot more to produce less.

    I also agree with the above posts a LOT more time spent farming as well.

  6. #6
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Ah.. Yes, good points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cimerone View Post
    You can no longer purchase the crit item it has to come from the fields you are harvesting and I am told can also come as drops in the new regions. (can someone confirm this last please?)
    Yes, that's true - got some off corpses and backpacks IIRC.
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  7. #7

    AW: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Not really happy either, instead of spending less time on the fields like the said, I actually spend more time :/

    Only thing "good" about this change is that farming tools now have a meaurable effect on the time spent getting your crops.

  8. #8
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
    Ah.. Yes, good points.



    Yes, that's true - got some off corpses and backpacks IIRC.
    Thanks for that I appreciate the confirmation. I have yet to send my high level toon into the new areas I'm waiting for the stampede to settle down !

  9. #9

    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
    I admit I only tested Westfold field recipes, but I was getting easily 8 to 10 crops per field with well tended hearty fields. Basically, the more expensive seeds give you the yields you are used to. Monsanto has come to Middle Earth.
    The problem isn't the yield of the fields, I'm VERY happy with the hearty fields. But they're giving me pretty much the same number of crops I'm used to...which are 4 times less potent than they used to be. A nice big yield of 10 crops used to equal 40 taters, let's say. In the new tier, it just equals 10.
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  10. #10
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    I submitted a bug report in-game about the 1-to-1 processing yield. I'm thinking it's an oversight or mistake of some kind, since all other crafting tiers have a crop-to-bunch yield of 1-to-4.

  11. #11

    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Quote Originally Posted by ButrBiscut View Post
    I submitted a bug report in-game about the 1-to-1 processing yield. I'm thinking it's an oversight or mistake of some kind, since all other crafting tiers have a crop-to-bunch yield of 1-to-4.
    I doubt it. I also noticed today on my cook that crit items for Westfold tier only add 35% chance, instead of the old 45%. Can't confirm if that's true on other professions yet.
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  12. #12
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Quote Originally Posted by NazgulLord View Post
    I doubt it. I also noticed today on my cook that crit items for Westfold tier only add 35% chance, instead of the old 45%. Can't confirm if that's true on other professions yet.
    It is. The crit chance was lowered from 45% to 35% ON ALL CRAFT PROFESSIONS.
    No idea why.

    Speculation in Beta was they did this in preparation for adding new craft tools that increased the crit chance back to 45% but that did not turn out to be the case since (so far) there have not been any new craft tool recipes found (maybe added with update 5?).
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  13. #13

    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Another think I noticed last night was that the crit item (unrefined) was an actual necessary ingredient for the new flower recipe. It caught me off guard, I don't craft flowers, but that a crit item became an ingredient was a bit strange.

    I think this is a mistake the 1:1 ratio of bushel to fruit, (although I have only tried the black oats) because there is no way this is a quicker easier way to farm. It makes me think someone who never farmed in-game made the new tier.

    The crit item does not show up too often farming, but I got a few from looting corpses, chests.

    I just obtained the ability to use the crit item and haven't used it yet, but I was secretly hoping that using the crit item would drastically change the output of the crops. Sad to hear from other posts that this is not true.

  14. #14

    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    I wonder how well the Bonus Crafting XP Scrolls and/or Westfold Ingredient Packs are selling on the store?

  15. #15

    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheREALify View Post
    I wonder how well the Bonus Crafting XP Scrolls and/or Westfold Ingredient Packs are selling on the store?
    Such an excellent point, and sad that it is so, particularly the Ingredient Packs for Cooking so you can bypass Farming completely. Experience isn't hard to come by, but the yields are. I'm not one to complain, but these changes to farming - especially under the premise that they were done to reduce the amount of time for this craft - are an insult. The 1:1 yield changes the entire dynamic of the profession, making it decidely not fun. Having craft enhancers available in the store should be a nice perk, not a necessity. I can only add that I'm happy they didn't make these changes backward down the other levels .. but it doesn't give my farmer much to look forward to other than a tedious time in the fields.
    Last edited by Jenara; Oct 01 2011 at 12:44 PM. Reason: clarity

  16. #16
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Short version: Farming is seriously broken due to the 1:1 ratio at the bench.

    All other things aside, if this small item of code is fixed, there will be peace again.

    Right?

  17. #17
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grhysli View Post
    It is. The crit chance was lowered from 45% to 35% ON ALL CRAFT PROFESSIONS.
    No idea why.

    Speculation in Beta was they did this in preparation for adding new craft tools that increased the crit chance back to 45% but that did not turn out to be the case since (so far) there have not been any new craft tool recipes found (maybe added with update 5?).
    Isn't that kind of like marking up the price on items 100% and then putting them on sale for 50% off? All the same in the end, except this time we got no tools to make up for that 10% that has gone missing

    Shady dealing? Unfinished work? I'm not sure, but I do know that my scholar is happily making +12.5% crit scrolls (about the only recipes scholars get from cases) for kinnies, to skill up her scholar skills.
    Last edited by giniluv; Oct 03 2011 at 10:58 AM. Reason: edited for clarity

  18. #18
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Arathar View Post
    Another think I noticed last night was that the crit item (unrefined) was an actual necessary ingredient for the new flower recipe. It caught me off guard, I don't craft flowers, but that a crit item became an ingredient was a bit strange.
    What ARE those flowers for? Is there a new housing item recipe I'm missing?


    Another vote for spending 2 full days farming Black Barley to get enough for guild recipes, regen & vit food really effing blows.
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  19. #19
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Quote Originally Posted by KristTsirk View Post
    What ARE those flowers for? Is there a new housing item recipe I'm missing?


    Another vote for spending 2 full days farming Black Barley to get enough for guild recipes, regen & vit food really effing blows.
    It gives you various dye ingredients. I made 20 non-critted fields and got;

    20 yarrow roots
    17 woad plants
    10 indigo plants
    8 bloodwort roots
    7 lily-of-the-valley leaves
    5 iris roots
    4 bluebottle petals
    3 juicy elderberries
    3 amaranth petals
    1 saffron thread



    No more hunting woad/indigo plants or yarrow roots ^^

    -----------------
    I didn't even notice the change from 1:4 to 1:1 at first, only when I got back to the computer after making 60 of each new crop I saw that I had way fewer than I should've had.. So yes as stated, farmers are gonna have to spend -more- time farming now.. Cheers, Turbine :|
    Last edited by .Onji.; Oct 04 2011 at 12:35 AM.
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  20. #20
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Quote Originally Posted by .Onji. View Post
    I made 20 non-critted fields and got;

    20 yarrow roots
    17 woad plants
    10 indigo plants
    8 bloodwort roots
    7 lily-of-the-valley leaves
    5 iris roots
    4 bluebottle petals
    3 juicy elderberries
    3 amaranth petals
    1 saffron thread
    oh wow! At least that change is really nice. That's more bluebottle petals than I used to get out of a stack of bluebottle fields.
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  21. #21
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Where do the new flower recipes come from?
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  22. #22
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    You can get the recipe (Wildflowers) from the main town in central Dunland. It is rep gated (at Friend) and can be bought for cash.


    (Is the town Galtrev? Sorry, I don't remember the name.)
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  23. #23
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    That recipe for crit items is a roi exclusive? With current work and studies, level-wise roi will be needed in a year perhaps.

    I ask since I moved from old EU servers, restarted and paid for a lot and after simply had no time to play/level.

    Decent level characters on a paid account/active server - zero.

    Is the recipe tradable?

    I had hoped removing tier quests meant losing the level requirement for crafting.

  24. #24
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Macroscian View Post
    That recipe for crit items is a roi exclusive? With current work and studies, level-wise roi will be needed in a year perhaps.
    The only rep-gated farmer recipes are the wild flower field recipe (friend with men of dunland) and the wild pipeweed field recipe (friend with theodred's riders). Onji did a good job describing the flower recipe and I assume the pipeweed recipe is similar, except for pipeweed.

    The crit item recipe is there by default for your farmer, but it requires a fairly rare ingredient.

  25. #25
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    Re: RoI: Am I missing something, or is Turbine?

    Another addition to the huge timesink that is RoI farming.

    The 'crit' item Pile of Rich Soil must actually be converted at the workbench into Clump of Peat which is the true crit item. And the induction to do so is 20 SECONDS per conversion!!! So again, MORE time spent at the workbench.

    Add that to the 1:1 ratio of crop to produce, I estimate one would spend 5x as much time doing RoI recipes than before this 'improved' farming system.

    And no Dev to comment? I'm at a loss for words.
    Last edited by giniluv; Oct 05 2011 at 05:26 PM.

 

 
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