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  1. #1

    2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    Someone tell me this is a bug - the 3 mastery traits just give the Spear/Spear, etc masteries now.
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  2. #2
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    That's correct. All the regular masteries are tied to WoTW. The 'doublebuilders' have traits of their own.
    Nerves, of the Brandywine.

  3. #3

    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    So. Way of the Warden is a must have? Interesting. That will add new and exciting ways to build gambits faster.

  4. #4

    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by geoboy View Post
    That's correct. All the regular masteries are tied to WoTW. The 'doublebuilders' have traits of their own.
    Was there any reasoning behind this? The doublebuilders seem... lackluster at best, which makes the 3 mastery traits almost worthless.

    I guess it frees up 3 normal traits but you lose a valuable legendary for stupid dumb WotW.
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  5. #5
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by betaphi1426 View Post
    Was there any reasoning behind this? The doublebuilders seem... lackluster at best, which makes the 3 mastery traits almost worthless.

    I guess it frees up 3 normal traits but you lose a valuable legendary for stupid dumb WotW.
    They consider the trade-off worth it. Most people agree. I lost JoDF, which I use once in a great rare while outside of tanking, so I'm not too bothered by it. I gained +2 Heal pulses, or sometimes for kicks the War-Cry fear + Goad mastery.
    Last edited by ANewMachine; Sep 27 2011 at 02:54 PM.
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  6. #6

    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by ANewMachine View Post
    They consider the trade-off worth it. Most people agree. I lost JoDF, which I use once in a great rare while, so I'm not too bothered by it. I gained +2 Heal pulses, or sometimes for kicks the War-Cry fear + Goad mastery.
    That's what I figured, but I'm just surprised because it makes the 3 mastery traits... really bad. I can see using the double fist + war cry ones (as you mentioned), but that's it.

    Oh well, I'll miss you JoDF.
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  7. #7
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    On the upside, they do provide easy access to Potency, which I'm finding is very powerful. Back-to-back WTs to start a fight mean the fight ends pretty swiftly...
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  8. #8
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    Even without potency. I traited the +3 target Goad trait, plus fist mastery, and I can kick off fully masteried WC, Goad, Eob in a very short period of time.
    Tanking just got a whole lot easier for those initial grabs of multiple mobs.
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  9. #9
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    Generally, I think I'll be sticking with the double builder that matches my capstone , but fist might be an exception.
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  10. #10
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    This change works well for me. Now 3 class traits have been freed up, and the double fist builder is wonderful to have with increased targets on Goad.

    like ShammWoww said, multi-mob tanking is much, much easier.
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  11. #11
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    Right now i've been burning through quests using
    5 red (spear mastery, vetran, hurler...and two more) + never say die + perseverance
    GMWT, Spear Cap and WotW

    Typical rotation:
    1) jav something to pull
    2) spear mastery to build deft strike while they are running to me or I'm running in
    3) WT and load WT into Battle Memory
    4) Power Attack
    5) Mighty Blow
    6) WT from battle mastery
    7) Onslaught if close to dead (rinse repeat if they aren't dead)

    I haven't parsed it, but things are dying very fast. Once I got into the level 70-1 mobs I notice I've been missing more. I'm swapping out some of the OD set for pieces with some finesse on them. At 1600 finesse I seemed to hit more reliably on the same mobs. I'm not doing hunter type numbers but good enough to quest.

  12. #12
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    Okey so i just have to ask a question since i didn`t got the chance to try to read and figure out anything yesterday other then questing.

    I was traited 5 spear and with masteries before RoI went live, and when i logged on i had the double builder spear-spear on my skillbar. Never visited a bard or a class trainer so i don`t know if i have to buy something. I noticed (after a little while) that the spear-spear icon was lighten up so i pushed it. Got 2 spear in gambit panel ofc

    My question is Now what to do to get the battle memory thing?? I`m sure someone else are at work and willing to answer a lazy warden nub

    Thx in advance
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  13. #13
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    You and me both - I had all the double builders, and a lot of what was already there was over-written. How does this potency/battle memory stuff work? As in, how do you activate it?

  14. #14

    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chanah View Post
    You and me both - I had all the double builders, and a lot of what was already there was over-written. How does this potency/battle memory stuff work? As in, how do you activate it?
    At levels 66 68 70, you will get passive skills from the trainer that allow FiFi / ShSh / SpSp to unlock potency, once you are potent the next gambit you use will copy into BM
    Last edited by Tolfast; Sep 28 2011 at 04:40 AM.
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  15. #15
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterion View Post
    never say die + perseverance
    Am I going senile (Don;t actually answer that ), or were not these two traits supposed to be combined into one, and a new one placed in the shield line ???

    Quote Originally Posted by BelegShy View Post
    I was traited 5 spear and with masteries before RoI went live, and when i logged on i had the double builder spear-spear on my skillbar. Never visited a bard or a class trainer so i don`t know if i have to buy something. I noticed (after a little while) that the spear-spear icon was lighten up so i pushed it. Got 2 spear in gambit panel ofc
    You can use them cause you still have the old Mastery traits equipped. They now give the double-XXX gambits. (Tolfast already answered about Potency and Battle-Memory)
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  16. #16
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolfast View Post
    At levels 66 68 70, you will get passive skills from the trainer that allow FiFi / ShSh / SpSp to unlock potency, once you are potent the next gambit you use will copy into BM
    Sweet thx Dinged 66 right before i logged out in the wilderness last night so i think i need to visit my trainer tonight then!!
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  17. #17
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleez View Post
    Am I going senile (Don;t actually answer that ), or were not these two traits supposed to be combined into one, and a new one placed in the shield line ???
    I believe that was a community suggestion, to do away with redundant traits (two traits that both do the same thing is kinda boring). You might be thinking of the proposal to have +2 Pulses as the 4-trait bonus in place of the current +10% healing, which Orion decided to keep instead of adding more pulses.
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  18. #18
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by betaphi1426 View Post
    I guess it frees up 3 normal traits but you lose a valuable legendary for stupid dumb WotW.
    Another way to think of it is that they (finally) made WotW not sucky- it includes all your masteries plus other stuff! It frees up 3 class trait slots, which is full of win. You can now trait 4/3 if you don't want a capstone.

    The double builders (ie double fist, double shield) are lackluster on their own, but not when they start to trigger potency. Be sure to visit your class trainer at 66!

    OH, and with double builders we may see future gambits with FiFiSpSp etc. That will put us back in the position of having to fill our class traits with 1 from each color, but it could be where the gambit system is heading. who knows?
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  19. #19
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlancoFallowhide View Post
    Another way to think of it is that they (finally) made WotW not sucky- it includes all your masteries plus other stuff! It frees up 3 class trait slots, which is full of win. You can now trait 4/3 if you don't want a capstone.
    Another 'nother way to think about it is from the perspective of anyone leveling a new warden. Why on earth would I want to go through the hassle getting a "legendary" trait that won't actually be useful to me in the least until level 66-70? Personally, I would have liked to see Orion giving more thought to this whole thing instead of working out memes. And, the argument that this gives us more flexibility to build seems to miss that is just trading flexibility in one row of the page for lost flexibility in another. I'm not knocking the overall result (yet), but it really does strike me like Warden updates were the homework Orion did on the bus to school.
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  20. #20
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    I don't necessarily agree with you, but the issue with potency and masteries needs addressing. Both need to be introduced much much earlier, and masteries need to be trained skills.
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  21. #21
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by ANewMachine View Post
    I believe that was a community suggestion, to do away with redundant traits (two traits that both do the same thing is kinda boring).
    I thought it was Orion, but maybe it was someone here from the community. It was a change though I was looking forward to (unlike the 4-trait bonus change that I am glad did not happen). I did a quicky search on Orion posts, but could not find it. I wanted to slot one more shield trait and still have my +pulses (and +10%) !
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  22. #22
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by forceofnone View Post
    Another 'nother way to think about it is from the perspective of anyone leveling a new warden. Why on earth would I want to go through the hassle getting a "legendary" trait that won't actually be useful to me in the least until level 66-70? Personally, I would have liked to see Orion giving more thought to this whole thing instead of working out memes. And, the argument that this gives us more flexibility to build seems to miss that is just trading flexibility in one row of the page for lost flexibility in another. I'm not knocking the overall result (yet), but it really does strike me like Warden updates were the homework Orion did on the bus to school.
    ...er? All my tests show significant increases in DPS, HPS, and overall shorter fights from the Masteries. I've slotted every mastery trait since the day I earned it, and never unslotted for even light questing. It's not like you only use them for instancing. They're hugely important for basic Warden play, and if you only slot them at 65 and try to use them effectively, you're gonna have some issues playing the class when you go to enter instances.
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  23. #23
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by ANewMachine View Post
    ...er? All my tests show significant increases in DPS, HPS, and overall shorter fights from the Masteries. I've slotted every mastery trait since the day I earned it, and never unslotted for even light questing. It's not like you only use them for instancing. They're hugely important for basic Warden play, and if you only slot them at 65 and try to use them effectively, you're gonna have some issues playing the class when you go to enter instances.
    This sounds like the old masteries or possibly you are still using mastery to mean the builders. I'm talking about the legendary traits (which now only gives a double-builder you really won't care about when new wardens get those traits). I do believe every warden has unslotted all but one of the mastery traits and maybe even unslotted all of them if they don't have reliable access to potency and battle memory (I don't want to go back and figure out what all makes using potency feasible for a sub-65 warden, but I suspect it isn't worthwhile until level 66). Maybe the devs have just decided there won't be any new players, so who cares. But, it seems significant.
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  24. #24
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    Re: 2/3rds of Masteries tied to WotW?!?

    No, I think you've got your terminology mixed up, which confused me. You said:
    Why on earth would I want to go through the hassle getting a "legendary" trait that won't actually be useful to me in the least until level 66-70?
    The only Masteries on a Legendary Trait come from Way of the Warden, which gives the "mixed" ones (fist+spear, fist+shield, shield+fist, shield+spear, spear+shield and spear+fist). All of these can and should be used before level 66. Thus, I presumed you were talking about those, when in fact you were not.

    The other Mastery traits that now give the double-builders (f-f, sp-sp, sh-sh) aren't "legendary" traits, they're normal class traits. And yeah, you might be right, people might not get them before 66, but I can see a good use for at least two of them, Shield and Fist Mastery. Defensive strike is useful to get to the newly-raised block cap, and Goad is a much better argument as a two-button ability instead of a three-button-plus-cooldown ability. And Spear Mastery comes pretty naturally just from playing solo, since you use those gambits pretty regularly. So I really don't see the problem.
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