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  1. #1

    Red face Help me be a great tank.

    Greetings fellow Wardens.
    I am beginning my journey of the shield and spear. I am currently at the level range of the Great Barrows. I've tanked 2 times, both where very subpar in action. Many people were hurting or dying.
    So i come to you all asking to make of me a worthy tank.

    What advice can you give me? Gear-wise i'm all clear, i've spent a lot of gold in mastering my tailoring craft as well as my jewelry, I have a full purple level 25 set. (i am currently level 25)
    So if gear is of no concern then surely it was my skill as a tank that was detrimental to my group. What advice can you give me in hopes that I learn to be a better tank?

    Usually what I do is the following. On groups with 2 or more I attack with javelin toss or shield piercer, then war-cry followed by Fierce Resolve. If I have mantained aggro I cast Shield up. If i'm lossing aggro I goad. Depending if I still have all enemies on me then I do Safeguard or Shield Strike. SS if its 3 or more. Safeguard if its 1 or 2. (I might be wrong, tips appreciated). If I don't have enemies on me I target whoever is attacking my mates and do Precise Blow.
    By now most fights are done, if not I continue with high hitters / high threaters such as Piercing Strike.

    On bosses I ambush, Shield pierce, 2x Precise Blow. then I cast my hots and shield ups. Then again Precise blow 2x unless it brings adds, which I then attack with Goad, Warcry and Fierce Resolve in that order. Sometimes I continue aoe, others I cast safeguard, on bosses I always refresh my defensive cooldowns. They hit hard.


    And all that and I still had a terrible time in GB. I just don't think War-cry follow by Fierce Resolve is enough of a threatmaker to begin. Blarg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    5

    Re: Help me be a great tank.

    at your level i think it's more difficult. but i think it's cool you're working on it early.

    try using precise blow, war cry, and maddening strike.

    if you fight multiples, cycle through them with PB and keep WC going.

    it gets a lot better later on with exultation of battle, dance of war, and conviction.

    good luck.

    p.s. feirce resolve isn't specifically a threat bluilder. if you fight multiples and you can benefit from the morale drain, great. but you might have better luck with maddening strike for threat. i'm not sure on lower levels really because i mostly soloed to 65 then learned how to tank.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    134

    Re: Help me be a great tank.

    First off, some might say you'll need to level all the way to 58 and get the Conviction gambit before you can 'tank right'. While conviction certainly makes it easier, it isn't necessary to tank.

    Generally, (unless the fight dictates otherwise) I insist upon fellowship members focusing on *my* target. This way, I can start a fight off with War Cry (to get everything on me initially) and then Precise Blow that first target a few times. If the group is any good, they'll be nuking the target I've PB'ed, and I don't have to really worry about the other adds until that first monster is almost down. Then, all I have to do is War Cry until the first is dead and switch targets. People use AoEs, so throwing in the odd War Cry or Fierce Resolve every now and then is always nice.

    Keep in mind Precise Blow is your *best* single-target taunt. I've taken back aggro from lv65 Hunters as a lv50 Warden spamming that skill.

    If I recall correctly, one of the first legendary traits you can get is a Force-attack; once used, all mobs in range will be forced to attack you for 10s, and any AoE threat gambits you can throw out in those 10s will help get the creatures off fellowship members.

    Of course, at Lv58 comes Conviction. AoE threat transfer and HoT for your whole fellowship. Very nice.

    Once you get LIs, you'll get several legacies that enhance the threat of certain gambits, like War Cry.

    Beyond that... Practice, practice, practice! None of us were perfect Warden tanks right out of the starter areas.
    ~ Warlargar - Warg - R5 ~
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a0000002056ca/01008/signature.png] undefined [/charsig]
    "Dark sarcasm ought to be taught in schools." - Commander Samuel Vimes - Terry Pratchett - Night Watch.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Toronto, ON
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    9,844

    Re: Help me be a great tank.

    At your level, spend a bit more time at the beginning of the fight layering on threat. War-cry first and then goad... and then another goad the trait that makes goad a 6-target skill can be really valuable when tanking (also goad is just a frontal AoE, so maintain positioning - you only also get parry and block bonuses when a mob is in front of you, so more reason to keep everything there). Then put Piercing Blows on the most threatening targets, then worry about fierce resolve heals, shields up and all that. You've got to trust your morale pool and healer to get you through. Even if you don't have your defensive skills up, it's still best if the mobs are hitting you. Also, unless it's a dangerous mob, don't worry about it hitting your DPS, you're going to lose some. Get over it now.

    Keeping the mobs off your healer is your #1 priority. Also, DPS classes have to learn to limit their threat / damage. LOTRO is built in such a way that unbridled DPS will usually result in aggro, it's just balanced that way.
    Last edited by geoboy; Sep 26 2011 at 02:48 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000019caef/signature.png]Nerves[/charsig]

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    120

    Re: Help me be a great tank.

    From the EXTREMELY limited knowledge I have (I have tanked in WoW, but not really in LotRO), you'll want to "tab-target" and use Precise Blow, especially with only a handful of foes. For big packs you want to use War Cry, maybe Goad (I've heard either "Goad is useful, use it" or "Goad is worthless, forget it"), still tab around and Precise Blow, Maddening Strike is helpful too.

    From what I understand Wardens are difficult to tank with at lower levels and you really have to rely on people single-target firing down whatever you're attacking; they'll pull threat really easily if they just randomly target or AOE things. I ran a GB on my Hunter with a Warden as the MT and found if I used Rain of Arrows I would pull, but if I just hit the "assist" button to make sure I was targeting his target and used single-target attacks, he was okay.

    Also, if low level instances are anything like WoW's it's not a huge deal if you lose aggro to a DPS, because you just don't have enough tools to hold aggro against everything. Obviously you should try, but we have a saying in WoW:

    If the tank dies, it's the Healer's fault
    If the healer dies, it's the Tank's fault
    If the DPS die, it's their own fault

    Focus on keeping aggro off your healer, but if DPS are trigger-happy and pull threat because they can't assist the tank, they should be facing the consequences.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    St Louis Mo
    Posts
    1,999

    Re: Help me be a great tank.

    Decent advice so far, as well as you seem to have some of the mechanics down.

    Make sure the rest of the group knows the tanking motto in Lotro is, "You spank it, you tank it." Keep your healer alive and if a DPS class decides to hit another target than your own, they should be able to survive a few hits or they will learn to use target assist. Precision Blow is your friends on single target mobs, with WC and Goad for more but with less threat gen. Remind champs that they either have to Ebb Ire onto you or tank it themselves for a while. Hunters have great DPS and kite wonderfully, but remind them that you cannot get aggro on their mob while chasing it around at your level, so you have to let them learn on their own how much DPS to put out in a group vs soloing where it does not matter.

    Wardens are an advanced class, but even guards are your level see people around them dying.. Its not always your fault that others are hurt or dying, its part of learning how to function as a group while learning how to play your class. That includes dying when they do things they should not.

    Hey, my sigs bugged out.. Booo.

  7. #7

    Re: Help me be a great tank.

    Thanks everyone for their advice.
    I see, I should precise blow more often and ask to be assisted, AoE and heals a secondary importance but still good to throw out.
    Thank you all! Keep the advice coming

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Re: Help me be a great tank.

    I would qualify the 'AoEs' as secondary statement - AoE aggro should be your FIRST priority. This will establish enough threat to prevent mobs from targeting everyone willy nilly, and a little bit should keep everything off your healer. This is step 1. Then lock down any dangerous mobs with pb (precise blow). This is step 2. Maintain threat, increase your avoidances and load HoTs. This is your maintenance.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000019caef/signature.png]Nerves[/charsig]

  9. #9

    Re: Help me be a great tank.

    Oh right! I nearly forgot...
    Virtues! Traits!
    I readed the Dev diary but I have not seen any listed virtue changes. I know Zeal is now good, for one. Anyways, what are Warden currently using as their main virtues?
    How about Traits? Is the way to go still 5 blues or 3 blues 2 fists / 3 blues 2 spears the new up and comers. Heh, i'm not sure why I care so much, I only have 2 trait slots opened at my level. Using The defensive strike +10% chance and 10 second duration. Looking at the 2 traits that increase our HoT ticks by one more, traiting both is 2 extra ticks. Not sure if worth it though...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
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    Re: Help me be a great tank.

    Really depends on what you're doing. Veteran + efficient thrust is good for easy solo stuff. 2x Hot pulses is good for tough mobs, and the +3 goad targets and one more fist trait is good for tanking.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000019caef/signature.png]Nerves[/charsig]

  11. #11

    Re: Help me be a great tank.

    Quote Originally Posted by geoboy View Post
    Really depends on what you're doing. Veteran + efficient thrust is good for easy solo stuff. 2x Hot pulses is good for tough mobs, and the +3 goad targets and one more fist trait is good for tanking.
    And right on the middle ground of them all are the shield buffs from blue. I'm thinking i'll keep em for a while unless I start seeing more than 3 mob packs in dungeons where Goad will be used.

    Shame on the veteran+efficient thrust. That's why I am an advocate of dual specs. (please don't kill me i know this was a WoW idea)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Re: Help me be a great tank.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krazus View Post
    And right on the middle ground of them all are the shield buffs from blue. I'm thinking i'll keep em for a while unless I start seeing more than 3 mob packs in dungeons where Goad will be used.

    Shame on the veteran+efficient thrust. That's why I am an advocate of dual specs. (please don't kill me i know this was a WoW idea)
    Once you get more trait slots, mixing it up will be more viable. Until 60ish, at which point you get 'captstone traits', which give you an extra juicy bonus for going 5-deep in a specific line. At this time you're pretty much stuck going 5/2 if you want to be effective.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000019caef/signature.png]Nerves[/charsig]

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Sunny Southern Cali
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    321

    Re: Help me be a great tank.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krazus View Post
    Thanks everyone for their advice.
    I see, I should precise blow more often and ask to be assisted, AoE and heals a secondary importance but still good to throw out.
    Thank you all! Keep the advice coming
    ((I added the emphasis))

    Well, there is going to be a little differences in opinions on this, but if I am Main Tank (MT), I prefer not to also be Main Assist (MA). This way, I can tab-target and throw PBs (WCs & Goads) out without worrying about who is attacking what target.

    Let an Off-Tank or one of the DPS be the MA...
    Run Away... Run Away...

    ((Warning - Player has a severe case of Alt-itis))

  14. #14

    Re: Help me be a great tank.

    I look forward to hearing more here. I can already see that tanking is going to have a waaayyy different round of gambits than soloing. Did some skirmishes with a 65 LM in my kindred and he let me solo the big bosses. I do not recall using Precise Blow even once but leaned on Fierce Resolve and the defensive gambits. Of course, at lvl 29, the options are limited. That was an interesting learning experience though. I can assure you there is no way for a 29 warden to offset the damage aggro a 65 LM can cause.

    Do remember using a lot War Cry and Maddening Strike during some pugging with a different LM out in Haragmar trying to keep the mobs off her. She would use some kind of fire damage then and I'd be off chasing mobs. Guess I'm starting to understand the DPS issue a little bit.

    Time to do some more grouping so I can practice. I know the gambits that I lean on really well already, but there are others that are useful that I need to get into rotation.
    100 Warden / RK / LM / Captain / Guardian / Hunter / Burg / Champ / Minstrel
    Brandywine

  15. #15

    Re: Help me be a great tank.

    If I were a Level 65 I would use Dance of War instead of Maddening Strike.
    If I were a high level i would make use of this guide since it explains the high level gambits perfectly. Gambits which I am jealous of and do not possess
    http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Warden:_Tanking_Guide

 

 

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