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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    14

    Unhappy Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Firstly a brief history since this is my first real post since the EU servers changed ownership.

    My main character and passion since the release of MoM has been my Warden: Arkenward. I rolled the character the moment the Eldar server came online when MoM was released. I pioneered the use of the class in my kinship, on my server and as part of the EU community.

    I constantly tried to push the boundaries of what people believed the class was capable of. Luckily I had a supportive kinship who were prepared to give an unknown class a chance. As a group we began to recognize which encounters suited which tank type better - we were for a time ahead of the curve. These I believe were the best days to be a Warden from Volume 2 Book 7 to the release of SoM.

    Since the release of SoM I believe the Warden has been in-decline and it's utility overlooked, not as a result of the class and it's skills being bad, but because the content changed into encounters which the Warden didn't have the utilities to deal with (e.g. agro management and snapping such as Engage). SoM still had it's days for the Warden though and I was even present for the first time my kinship cleared Gotheron T2 challenge mode.

    I'll say at this point though that this is not so much a QQ as a lament.

    With the immenent release of RoI it is becoming all too apparent that the Warden has once again been overlooked, but now it has gone too far. You don't have to look far on this forum to see the posts by those with foresight and skill 'doing the math' and figuring out how bad the outlook is for the Warden in RoI. The lack of scaling self heals, the increased effects of finesses on Wardens over Guardians and the still unusable Way of the Fist line traits are prime examples.

    I started my raiding life in LotRO as a Guardian and tanking is my passion - I don't want to abandon my Warden, but for my kinship to have the highest chance of successfully clearing the new content I feel my hand has been forced. I am a team player, and I can't in put my love of a class before the goals and aims of my kinship. Come Tuesday my main character will be my Guardian again for the first time in almost 3 years.

    I will level my Warden as an alt in the hope that Orion considers the feedback left by others on this forum. I have faith that this is just a phase, but Turbine is like a cargo ship and can take a long time to react/turn.

  2. #2
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Interesting.

    Good luck! You might want to read what current guardians think of the update. Play whatever class you have fun with.

  3. #3
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Hmm, sad to see that. I watched all your guide videos back in the day, it was what made me successfully tank BO on first time ever being there when I first joined my raiding alliance.

    Well, good luck on the dark side
    WARDEN FOR LIFE! on Laurelin EU-RP
    Officer of the [COLOR=RoyalBlue]Rangers of the North[/COLOR].
    Proud member of [COLOR=Red]WeRock Alliance[/COLOR].

  4. #4
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkile View Post
    With the immenent release of RoI it is becoming all too apparent that the Warden has once again been overlooked, but now it has gone too far. You don't have to look far on this forum to see the posts by those with foresight and skill 'doing the math' and figuring out how bad the outlook is for the Warden in RoI. The lack of scaling self heals, the increased effects of finesses on Wardens over Guardians and the still unusable Way of the Fist line traits are prime examples.

    I started my raiding life in LotRO as a Guardian and tanking is my passion - I don't want to abandon my Warden, but for my kinship to have the highest chance of successfully clearing the new content I feel my hand has been forced. I am a team player, and I can't in put my love of a class before the goals and aims of my kinship. Come Tuesday my main character will be my Guardian again for the first time in almost 3 years.
    I wish you the best of luck in whatever class you decide to make your main. However - like Mysterion - I am surprised at your conclusion. Reading some threads in the Guardian Forum like this and this not to forget this, it sounds like Guardians are even more concerned about the (lack of changes).

    My personal ambition is to tank on my Warden, and by golly! I will do so, even if I have to step over mounds of heavy armour and shields! I think Guardians and Wardens will be fine in RoI.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a0000002ab92d/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  5. #5
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    And heres me levelling a warden because it looks like my guardian will be overshadowed by wardens come ROI
    The great and mighty Hobbit Champion

  6. #6
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    I'm leveling a champ...

    I like the idea of having a dual purpose class. If the tanking is fun and I can succeed in a dps role and tanking role its a win win. So it will be more of an alt project.

    Running School/Lib/OE/GBx3 all over again doesn't sound like the most fun thing to do again with my warden. Leveling two toons to cap (warden/LM) isn't going to take very long either. So I'm trying out different classes....have guard, mini, champ and hunter as possible projects.

    I'm not doing this b/c I think champs will out tank wardens, just doing it for fun and because I don't have a dps raid class.

  7. #7
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    lol this is so funny even when ROI isnt released yet and guards feel its the end of the world for them. If later down the road people feel guards are #### will you roll a champ? Good luck to you and your kin.
    For everyone else embrace the challenge and not run away from it. The new content on release is 1 raid which has been done as a pug with a champ tanking. Your being forced? if so your in the wrong kin. The game is not hard. Some kins have done DN,BG,OD( not all) 6man. It is very easy for me to talk because am the main tank in my kin and i know my spot is safe. That being said if i ever leave my kin i know it will be unlikely i can easily join another kin as main tank. You are in a lucky position of having a ward and a guard and i will end this post saying dont shut the door on our warden. Leave the door open a little.

  8. #8
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    I've got enough alts that gameplay never gets stale. I'll be focusing on my warden and mini first. Then LM and burg, finally my hunter will get attention. Maybe. I actually had a lot of fun playing it recently.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000019caef/signature.png]Nerves[/charsig]

  9. #9
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Arkile,

    That is what happens when you spend too much time reading these posts of doom and gloom. Wardens will be quite fine, and you will not really have to worry about being main tank until 75 as there is no other instances. Also, if there is a problem with scaling and the such, you can be assured that changes will be made. Why oh why after three years of developing your skills as a Warden would you just stop playing your Warden.

    Wardens have been asking for these exact changes to be made to the class for quite awhile and now that they have finally come (other than the fist revamp, which is in the works) you decide you are not going to use your Warden as your main tank. Not very classy at all, especially from someone who "pioneered the use of the class in my kinship, on my server and as part of the EU community."

  10. #10
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterion View Post
    I'm leveling a champ...
    I'm very interested in trying a champ tanking at 75. But my champ is 39. He's so boring to level >.<
    WARDEN FOR LIFE! on Laurelin EU-RP
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  11. #11
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Quote Originally Posted by Farw View Post
    I'm very interested in trying a champ tanking at 75. But my champ is 39. He's so boring to level >.<
    Thats the thing that worries me. I found the hunter to be kind of boring in the 40s so he's been parked at crafting hall for a long time.

    I don't have a heavy armor wearing class for the cosmetics either. I found the guardian play style kind of boring. I'm hoping I can get further with the champ. My kin is pretty captain heavy too...I'd thought about leveling one of them as well.

    So many alt projects, so little time.

  12. #12
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    I really like to play my hunter now and then. It's liberating to just blow stuff up quickly with little thought. Boom ! Pew pew pew!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000019caef/signature.png]Nerves[/charsig]

  13. #13
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Quote Originally Posted by geoboy View Post
    I really like to play my hunter now and then. It's liberating to just blow stuff up quickly with little thought. Boom ! Pew pew pew!
    I think I didn't get along with the playstyle because I like to move and fight. I'm hoping that with the champ I can still blow things up but be able to move around without a penalty like losing focus. Plus the session plays with champ like skills always seemed pretty fun.

  14. #14

    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkile View Post
    - I don't want to abandon my Warden, but for my kinship to have the highest chance of successfully clearing the new content I feel my hand has been forced. I am a team player, and I can't in put my love of a class before the goals and aims of my kinship. .
    Only for this part, IMO it is totally understandable and I do bear the same feeling.



    I don't believe doom/gloom, RIO Wardens do get aggro dump, percentage based leech and a bit of stun immune. So, Let's just assume both classes are well balanced.

    But still, no one seems to touch this topic any more (afraid drawing more fire from Guardian), but inevitably, I think this is the root cause:
    Warden and Guardian class difficulty: Advanced(more difficult) vs. Basic.

    I don't play a lot of Guardian , has one at lvl 43, did fast-leveled her to 75 in beta and compared both Warden and Guardian . Not sure it is a fair comparison since I know Warden 's art way more than Guardian art.

    Doing some of the same content confirmed my believe: Well played Guardian is God-like, not Warden.



    Both my 75 Warden and Guardian soloed that 79k war-troll inside isengard, so let's leave the threat out this, simply comparing survivability. The Guardian is just easy to play, her morale steadily drops as Troll's morale. I ended up drinking coke, it took about 12 min and last my Guardian had about 1200 morale left. When my Warden was fighting the troll, her morale rise and drop like a roller coaster, my eyes were staring at the buffbar, and left hand fingers were dancing like crazy, I won't let her morale goes down below 4000 as I do see a couple of red 1500 dmg popped up and at last she had 5000 morale left.

    Now come back to threat, during that fight, my Guardian actually was generating most of threat if she would be in a group, not too much different she would do in solo, but Warden didn't use a single threat gambit, all buff and Hot, some Spear gambit.

    That made me believe well played, effort-dedicated Guardian , not Warden, are god-like simply because the class difficult is "Basic".


    Here is another analogy, might not 100% suit for MMO, but can reflect same philosophy:

    I also play COD on my PS3.
    A bad day at work, went home, wife yelled at playing too much "Stupid" game, I feel being defeated in real life so much. I will turn on my PS3, set COD difficult to "Recruit" and go to last three episodes and kill all Jan/Germ without losing a hair. and I feel God-like.

    A good Sunday morning, wife went to mall and yelled at "You can order pizza for lunch". I will turn on PS3, pop COD and set the difficult to "You will NOT survive", and go through last three episodes even I will be defeated 100 time before end, still feel great that I can win at last.

    Different difficult level will fulfill different game play satisfaction.


    Am I going to switch to Guardian. No in a million years, but for OP, same player, same dedication, same effort, Guardian will tank same content easier comparing Warden. But Warden still can do it with a bit more effort and challenge.

    If any Guardian is upset about Warden has been labeled as "Advanced", that would be a separated thread to discuss. I knew some Guardian will be pissed about that.

    Best of luck.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0d21600000013720a/signature.png]Caltraen[/charsig][url=http://my.lotro.com/home/character/dwarrowdelf/calttrien]
    Calttrien 85 Guardian [/url]

  15. #15
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    342

    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Have to say I'm pretty excited about having 15k+ morale and a probably inexhaustible 2.5k power with the the skill power cost reduction and even more ways to get ICPR now. The only thing "wrong" with the warden is that we still have a useless trait line (yellow) but our other 2 are more than functional enough to make up for that.

  16. #16

    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterion View Post
    I don't have a heavy armor wearing class for the cosmetics either. I'm hoping I can get further with the champ.

    So many alt projects, so little time.
    At the very least, when your champ gets to a high enough level, see about getting guided through Rift of Nurz Gashu raid to get the Gloombane armour set. All I'm missing for my champ is the shoulders(got the rest of the set for some outfits last night just in time for RoI).
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0d21600000002873d/signature.png]Ichaerus[/charsig]

  17. #17
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichaerus View Post
    At the very least, when your champ gets to a high enough level, see about getting guided through Rift of Nurz Gashu raid to get the Gloombane armour set. All I'm missing for my champ is the shoulders(got the rest of the set for some outfits last night just in time for RoI).
    I really like the Champ rift set. I could see my LM wearing that for sure.

  18. #18

    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    To the OP:
    My most successful OD runs, T2 challenge, had warden/guard as tanks.
    In fact the only T2 Fear/Ivar we ever got was ward/guard.
    Maybe the other guards in your kin just are not up to the task of playing with a warden as the 2nd tank, and can not handle the aggro swapping task, which would be placed on that guard.
    A well played ward/guard combo is extremely godly in OD, but the players need to be good, and play to each others strengths, and support each others weaknesses.
    Well played wardens are hard to find, IMO.
    Stay with your warden, and find better guards to play with, if your in a spot that requires aggro swaps.
    [LEFT]
    [/LEFT]

  19. #19
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkile View Post
    Firstly a brief history since this is my first real post since the EU servers changed ownership.

    My main character and passion since the release of MoM has been my Warden: Arkenward. I rolled the character the moment the Eldar server came online when MoM was released. I pioneered the use of the class in my kinship, on my server and as part of the EU community.

    I constantly tried to push the boundaries of what people believed the class was capable of. Luckily I had a supportive kinship who were prepared to give an unknown class a chance. As a group we began to recognize which encounters suited which tank type better - we were for a time ahead of the curve. These I believe were the best days to be a Warden from Volume 2 Book 7 to the release of SoM.

    Since the release of SoM I believe the Warden has been in-decline and it's utility overlooked, not as a result of the class and it's skills being bad, but because the content changed into encounters which the Warden didn't have the utilities to deal with (e.g. agro management and snapping such as Engage). SoM still had it's days for the Warden though and I was even present for the first time my kinship cleared Gotheron T2 challenge mode.

    I'll say at this point though that this is not so much a QQ as a lament.

    With the immenent release of RoI it is becoming all too apparent that the Warden has once again been overlooked, but now it has gone too far. You don't have to look far on this forum to see the posts by those with foresight and skill 'doing the math' and figuring out how bad the outlook is for the Warden in RoI. The lack of scaling self heals, the increased effects of finesses on Wardens over Guardians and the still unusable Way of the Fist line traits are prime examples.

    I started my raiding life in LotRO as a Guardian and tanking is my passion - I don't want to abandon my Warden, but for my kinship to have the highest chance of successfully clearing the new content I feel my hand has been forced. I am a team player, and I can't in put my love of a class before the goals and aims of my kinship. Come Tuesday my main character will be my Guardian again for the first time in almost 3 years.

    I will level my Warden as an alt in the hope that Orion considers the feedback left by others on this forum. I have faith that this is just a phase, but Turbine is like a cargo ship and can take a long time to react/turn.
    Someone who gets it imo.

    Of course, Wardens will still be able to complete raid content without too much difficulty. There are so many random numbers involved in the combat system that there has to be a huge margin of error for success.

    But from all the info we have, Wardens look set to end up quite a bit worse off than they are now for raid content (due to Finesse and mitigation changes lowering their relative survivability) in spite of the fairly well thought out new skills. (ie: the class update was all fine and dandy, and addressed some key issues, but other mechanics changes are what is likely to cause problems for Wardens)



    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterion View Post
    Interesting.

    Good luck! You might want to read what current guardians think of the update. Play whatever class you have fun with.
    And I am a current Guardian...


    Quote Originally Posted by Glorietta View Post
    I wish you the best of luck in whatever class you decide to make your main. However - like Mysterion - I am surprised at your conclusion. Reading some threads in the Guardian Forum like this and this not to forget this, it sounds like Guardians are even more concerned about the (lack of changes).

    My personal ambition is to tank on my Warden, and by golly! I will do so, even if I have to step over mounds of heavy armour and shields! I think Guardians and Wardens will be fine in RoI.
    Most of the Guardian complaints are around the fact that:
    a) Champions are stealing the role of Guards/Wardens
    b) Guardians got only a few trivial changes, and no dev interaction

    There are a few misguided ppl spouting doom and gloom about Wardens, but they've no basis for their views from what I can tell.
    Last edited by Evendale; Sep 23 2011 at 09:40 PM.
    [B]Elendilmir - [COLOR=#3333ff]Evenwyn[/COLOR][/B] Burglar[B] - [COLOR=#3333ff]Evendale[/COLOR][/B] Guardian
    [FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#ff0000][SIZE=2][B]Combat Analysis[/B] [/SIZE][/COLOR][SIZE=2]([B]v4.2.3b[/B]) - [/SIZE][/FONT]Download "[URL="http://www.lotrointerface.com/downloads/info502-CombatAnalysis.html"]here[/URL]"

  20. #20
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    I for my part will continue what I have been doing for the last 2 years: Level my LM as priority and leaving the Warden behind, because my LM is far more important to my group than my Warden. Wardens simply cannot deliver what the "Main-Tank" label implies they should.

    After the huge tanking love Champs got, Wardens are once again left behind IMHO. Guards have tanking tools, error recovery and sheer survivability (less from direct class changes, more from lifted caps), Champs have DPS as primary role. Even in 3-mans, where Wardens excel, there are now 3 heavy armor classes that can do the job well enough. And the only real advantage Wardens get with lifted avoidance caps is basically countered by Finesse.

    The only thing that worries me is that our experienced and skilled main Guardian in the raiding group has no time for running instances anymore, and we have no replacement Guard. Learning the new 12-man raid will be horrible with only our Warden.
    Some threads other people liked:
    Lore-Masters: [url=http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?419371-Pet-changes-we-d-like-to-see&p=5683498#post5683498]Pet changes we'd like to see[/url]
    Wardens: [url=http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?433890-YAFLR-The-feared-Warden]Yet Another Fist Line Revamp[/url]

  21. #21
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Quote Originally Posted by grinko.at View Post
    I for my part will continue what I have been doing for the last 2 years: Level my LM as priority and leaving the Warden behind, because my LM is far more important to my group than my Warden. Wardens simply cannot deliver what the "Main-Tank" label implies they should.

    After the huge tanking love Champs got, Wardens are once again left behind IMHO. Guards have tanking tools, error recovery and sheer survivability (less from direct class changes, more from lifted caps), Champs have DPS as primary role. Even in 3-mans, where Wardens excel, there are now 3 heavy armor classes that can do the job well enough. And the only real advantage Wardens get with lifted avoidance caps is basically countered by Finesse.

    The only thing that worries me is that our experienced and skilled main Guardian in the raiding group has no time for running instances anymore, and we have no replacement Guard. Learning the new 12-man raid will be horrible with only our Warden.
    WARDEN FOR LIFE! on Laurelin EU-RP
    Officer of the [COLOR=RoyalBlue]Rangers of the North[/COLOR].
    Proud member of [COLOR=Red]WeRock Alliance[/COLOR].

  22. #22
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Quote Originally Posted by HunterByHeart View Post
    Only for this part, IMO it is totally understandable and I do bear the same feeling.



    I don't believe doom/gloom, RIO Wardens do get aggro dump, percentage based leech and a bit of stun immune. So, Let's just assume both classes are well balanced.

    But still, no one seems to touch this topic any more (afraid drawing more fire from Guardian), but inevitably, I think this is the root cause:
    Warden and Guardian class difficulty: Advanced(more difficult) vs. Basic.

    I don't play a lot of Guardian , has one at lvl 43, did fast-leveled her to 75 in beta and compared both Warden and Guardian . Not sure it is a fair comparison since I know Warden 's art way more than Guardian art.

    Doing some of the same content confirmed my believe: Well played Guardian is God-like, not Warden.



    Both my 75 Warden and Guardian soloed that 79k war-troll inside isengard, so let's leave the threat out this, simply comparing survivability. The Guardian is just easy to play, her morale steadily drops as Troll's morale. I ended up drinking coke, it took about 12 min and last my Guardian had about 1200 morale left. When my Warden was fighting the troll, her morale rise and drop like a roller coaster, my eyes were staring at the buffbar, and left hand fingers were dancing like crazy, I won't let her morale goes down below 4000 as I do see a couple of red 1500 dmg popped up and at last she had 5000 morale left.

    Now come back to threat, during that fight, my Guardian actually was generating most of threat if she would be in a group, not too much different she would do in solo, but Warden didn't use a single threat gambit, all buff and Hot, some Spear gambit.

    That made me believe well played, effort-dedicated Guardian , not Warden, are god-like simply because the class difficult is "Basic".


    Here is another analogy, might not 100% suit for MMO, but can reflect same philosophy:

    I also play COD on my PS3.
    A bad day at work, went home, wife yelled at playing too much "Stupid" game, I feel being defeated in real life so much. I will turn on my PS3, set COD difficult to "Recruit" and go to last three episodes and kill all Jan/Germ without losing a hair. and I feel God-like.

    A good Sunday morning, wife went to mall and yelled at "You can order pizza for lunch". I will turn on PS3, pop COD and set the difficult to "You will NOT survive", and go through last three episodes even I will be defeated 100 time before end, still feel great that I can win at last.

    Different difficult level will fulfill different game play satisfaction.


    Am I going to switch to Guardian. No in a million years, but for OP, same player, same dedication, same effort, Guardian will tank same content easier comparing Warden. But Warden still can do it with a bit more effort and challenge.

    If any Guardian is upset about Warden has been labeled as "Advanced", that would be a separated thread to discuss. I knew some Guardian will be pissed about that.

    Best of luck.
    I'm going to say that this is probably most likely to be the reality of the situation.

    You'll be able to accomplish the task with either a Warden or a Guard. You'll just a much easier time of it with a guard. Which seems to me to be the status quo.

    Currently if you've got a Warden and a Guard, both players equally skilled, you can run with either as the MT but the guard usually gets picked because he has an easier time. I'd put money on that still being the case in RoI, with the guards maybe gaining a little ground.

    Most guard complaints are 'chicken little' scenarios involving threat and finesse. Though, finesse should at most reduce their block to current levels and more likely they'll still have a net gain of 5% block. Since I doubt we'll see finesse ratings higher than 15%.

  23. #23
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Quote Originally Posted by HunterByHeart View Post
    Am I going to switch to Guardian. No in a million years, but for OP, same player, same dedication, same effort, Guardian will tank same content easier comparing Warden. But Warden still can do it with a bit more effort and challenge.

    If any Guardian is upset about Warden has been labeled as "Advanced", that would be a separated thread to discuss. I knew some Guardian will be pissed about that.
    Very well written and thought-provoking post. Made me think about some meta-aspects of the game at least.

    I guess it's similar to the various reasons motivating people to raid, e.g.

    • Pleasure from social interaction.
    • Shiny items to increase personal "strength".
    • Satisfaction from group performance.
    • Enjoyment from personal performance.
    • Bragging rights from Boss kills.
    • Bragging about loot.
    • Other ...

    I guess you could say that people playing a Warden in a raid are more likely to derive satisfaction from personal performance, whereas a Guardian will be more likely to put aside personal challenges in favour of other motivators. A Champion tanking in RoI will undoubtedly face new and unusual challenges which he can then work to handle. That's an adequately vague way of putting it.

    So is there anything wrong with one motive or another? No, they are different but equally valid. As long as we don't delude ourselves we should be fine. And the changes for RoI seem to support this: Tanking Champions get to learn new skills and rotations/priorities, Wardens get even more complicated pro-active buffs and stuff, whereas Guardians get changes to existing skills and basically can go on as always.

    A tiny part of me would love to see the potential top performance of each class reflect the difficulty of playing that class, but that's an elitist way of thinking, so I slap myself mentally for that. It's better for me to accept that different people are different - just like different classes are different - and enjoy playing with nice people.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a0000002ab92d/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  24. #24
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    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorietta View Post
    Very well written and thought-provoking post. Made me think about some meta-aspects of the game at least.

    I guess it's similar to the various reasons motivating people to raid, e.g.

    • Pleasure from social interaction.
    • Shiny items to increase personal "strength".
    • Satisfaction from group performance.
    • Enjoyment from personal performance.
    • Bragging rights from Boss kills.
    • Bragging about loot.
    • Other ...

    I guess you could say that people playing a Warden in a raid are more likely to derive satisfaction from personal performance, whereas a Guardian will be more likely to put aside personal challenges in favour of other motivators. A Champion tanking in RoI will undoubtedly face new and unusual challenges which he can then work to handle. That's an adequately vague way of putting it.

    So is there anything wrong with one motive or another? No, they are different but equally valid. As long as we don't delude ourselves we should be fine. And the changes for RoI seem to support this: Tanking Champions get to learn new skills and rotations/priorities, Wardens get even more complicated pro-active buffs and stuff, whereas Guardians get changes to existing skills and basically can go on as always.

    A tiny part of me would love to see the potential top performance of each class reflect the difficulty of playing that class, but that's an elitist way of thinking, so I slap myself mentally for that. It's better for me to accept that different people are different - just like different classes are different - and enjoy playing with nice people.
    There's 12 people in a raid, and I would speculate that most people's order of preference is roughly:

    • 1) Shiny items to increase personal "strength"/Bragging about loot.
    • 2) Bragging rights from Boss kills/Satisfaction from group performance/Pleasure from social interaction.
    • 3) Enjoyment from personal performance.

    That is, most people just want to complete the content (I know that personally, while I take huge pride in personal performance, I'd still prefer to get an encounter completed and take my loot). Thus why a lot of people don't like to raid with Wardens, even if content is only trivially harder to complete with them.

    Also, a large part of the added difficulty of playing a Warden in a raid is felt by your healer rather than you, so if you don't have an understanding healer....



    Really, if I played a Warden I'd be pretty shocked and angry that Orion said Wardens are in a good place (apparently more so than Champs and Minstrels? !?). Wardens are by far the lowest played class (only Burglars are even in the same ballpark), and I don't think its just because they're an "advanced" class...

    But you know, eternally posting lolcats can be satisfying to some people too I guess .
    Last edited by Evendale; Sep 24 2011 at 06:17 PM.
    [B]Elendilmir - [COLOR=#3333ff]Evenwyn[/COLOR][/B] Burglar[B] - [COLOR=#3333ff]Evendale[/COLOR][/B] Guardian
    [FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#ff0000][SIZE=2][B]Combat Analysis[/B] [/SIZE][/COLOR][SIZE=2]([B]v4.2.3b[/B]) - [/SIZE][/FONT]Download "[URL="http://www.lotrointerface.com/downloads/info502-CombatAnalysis.html"]here[/URL]"

  25. #25

    Re: Switching from Warden to Guardian as of RoI

    Quote Originally Posted by Evendale View Post
    Really, if I played a Warden I'd be pretty shocked and angry that Orion said Wardens are in a good place (apparently more so than Champs and Minstrels? !?). Wardens are by far the lowest played class (only Burglars are even in the same ballpark), and I don't think its just because they're an "advanced" class...

    But you know, eternally posting lolcats can be satisfying to some people too I guess .
    Yeah really... Nothing like having your own Dev fuel the flames. Smooth move Orion, thanks for giving all the "haters", more incentive...

    You forgot to mention the dumb ferrets...

 

 
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