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  1. #151

    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    I installed these new 'beta' drivers some time ago & pre-patch they seemed to be working fine. Hardware mode with EAX and no BSOD for some time. (Extreme Music on Vista 64).

    Post patch and the dreaded BSOD has returned with a vengeance and I've had to knock it back onto Software mode to stay stable. The difference in sound is noticable and I'm once again left feeling disappointed.

    Here's to the next 'fix'.

  2. #152
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    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by Actaear View Post
    I installed these new 'beta' drivers some time ago & pre-patch they seemed to be working fine. Hardware mode with EAX and no BSOD for some time. (Extreme Music on Vista 64).

    Post patch and the dreaded BSOD has returned with a vengeance and I've had to knock it back onto Software mode to stay stable. The difference in sound is noticable and I'm once again left feeling disappointed.

    Here's to the next 'fix'.
    So just to be clear, you're saying that you accept that the drivers fixed the issue. Yet, somehow, a patch to the game brought the exact same BSOD issue back? Drivers being separate form the game code, it's not really possible (or if possible, very, very unlikely) that the game could reintroduce a problem that was found and fixed in the drivers.

    Incidentally, and this isn't pointed out often enough. . . an application can't cause a BSOD unless it hits upon a flaw in the OS or drivers. This was pointed out in the long thread on the x-fi BSOD issue time and again, but it fell on deaf ears. Even if a game developer wanted to cause Windows to BSOD, they couldn't do it unless they isolated a bug in a kernel-mode driver or the OS itself.

    Anyways, all of this is to say. . . I don't doubt that you're seeing BSODs. But I'm skeptical that it is due to the x-fi BSOD issue fixed by these beta drivers. The distinction may not be worthwhile to you, but for troubleshooting/investigative purposes, it's important.

    Best,

    H

    Edit: But, of course, this has the antenna up and I'm sure we'll all be on the lookout while we explore Dunland!

    Edit 2: If you installed these beta drivers "some time ago" you may not have installed these drivers since they are only two weeks old. Please confirm that the driver date in Device Manager is from August 2011. The prior beta drivers that had been out for months improved the BSOD issue substantially by making it happen less often (as several people found). . . which may explain why you were experiencing some relief. But these drivers (only two weeks old) appear to remedy the issue altogether.
    Last edited by Hurin; Sep 28 2011 at 02:21 PM.

  3. #153

    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    IT WORKED!!! Its like.....a christmas miracle :-)

  4. #154
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    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    Wishes do come true!

  5. #155

    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin View Post
    Edit 2: If you installed these beta drivers "some time ago" you may not have installed these drivers since they are only two weeks old. Please confirm that the driver date in Device Manager is from August 2011. The prior beta drivers that had been out for months improved the BSOD issue substantially by making it happen less often (as several people found). . . which may explain why you were experiencing some relief. But these drivers (only two weeks old) appear to remedy the issue altogether.
    You were correct on this synopsis my friend, and please excuse me for the 'schoolboy error'. After checking the date of the driver it transpired that the driver I was using was dated may 2010 (or thereabouts). So it would seem that since those drivers were installed I must have been riding the lucky wave and was no nearer solving the original issues than previously. Although the sound quality most certainly improved?!?

    Anyways, I'm currently trying these drivers and so far so good, I'll report back.

    Thanks for you help in diagnosing the issues

  6. #156
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    Re : X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    Well, some news for this weird "dissapearing sound" issue. It has happened again when I was using headphones. Some sounds were not audible, and I was playing my minstrel. It didn't occur every time, it is a very random issue.

    For now I don't know if it can be helped. Not sure if it's a LotRO issue (it is only happening when playing my minstrel) or a Creative one.

    Anyway, I'll change some pieces os my system and I will not be able to use my PCI X-Fi again (on my own PC, I'll use it on the second one), because my new motherboard will only have PCI-E ports. I'll buy a X-Fi Titanium and try to reproduce the issue.
    Si la tête est à la mémoire ce que le passé, peut-on y accéder à 6 ?

  7. #157
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    Re : X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    Here are some news. I no longer have my X-Fi PCI running (as explained before I changed some pieces of my rig). Last time I played with it I had the issue too, and I was using headphones and playing my minstrel.

    I'll soon have a X-Fi Titanium card, but until that happens, I'm using the onboard chip. It's a Realtek ALC889. Sound is really correct for an onboard chip, but the EAX in LotRO is bad (I have this chip on a ASUS Maximus IV Gene-Z motherboard which offer a "X-Fi 2" software layer on top of the Realtek ALC889, providing a software EAX Advanced HD 5.0 support), it sound very weird, and is not very "clear"...

    Anyway, the issue happened again, using headphones and playing my minstrel. I now am conviced that the issue is not X-Fi related, but is a game bug/malfunction. As stated numerous times, it happens generally when I'm playing my minstrel, so it may be a clue.

    Well, enough said about this issue. It's definitely not a X-Fi issue or driver related, so I'll stop annoying you guys.
    Si la tête est à la mémoire ce que le passé, peut-on y accéder à 6 ?

  8. #158

    Question AW: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    Can anyone tell me what the usual blue screen report shows?
    Since I switched to Windows 7 64 I also had again and again BSOD all with "PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AR EA" but every time I checked the dump that was made it seemed to point to a graphic related file.
    Besides the usual ntoskrnl.exe the following files were marked as source of the many BSOD:
    dump_ahcix64s.sys
    dxgkrnl.sys (x2)
    atikmdag.sys
    win32k.sys (x2)
    dxgmms1.sys (x2)
    atikmdag.sys
    Looks like most of the have something to do with directX or the graphic card itself.

    Anyhow I switched to software & turned EAX of and since that I had no BSOD so I guess the problem is the soundcard so I will try the new beta driver.

    BTW this should be made sticky in the technical support sub-forum.

  9. #159

    Exclamation Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    @Hurin
    You mention the driver date 8/1/2011, at least my X-Fi Titanium( PCI-E Version) shows 11th August 2011 aka 8/11/2011.
    Is 8/1/2011 from the PCI Version or just a typo?

  10. #160
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    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by Krisgarred View Post
    @Hurin
    You mention the driver date 8/1/2011, at least my X-Fi Titanium( PCI-E Version) shows 11th August 2011 aka 8/11/2011.
    Is 8/1/2011 from the PCI Version or just a typo?
    Heh, someone posted nearly the same question prior. Here's my response. But in a nutshell, I didn't say the driver was dated Aug-1-2011. I said to make sure that your driver is dated after Aug-1-2011. So if yours is dated Aug-11-2011, you're good.

    To answer your first question. . . back before the beta driver, any crashdumps generated by the BSODs that I ran through the debugger would always reference the same Creative driver file as the probable cause (but the exact name escapes me at the moment and I can't look back at my notes). So it's definitely odd that you're getting other filenames listed there.

    But, regardless, if you have an x-fi, I'd definitely run these beta drivers. I think, now that some time has passed and feedback has been so positive (and I've personally now played tons with no BSODs), it's safe to say that they do indeed solve the long-standing x-fi+LotRO BSOD issue with no substantial (reproduce-able) side effects.

    Best Regards,

    H

  11. #161

    Thumbs up Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    Meanwhile I have also played a lot and haven't had a single BSOD since using the beta drivers.

  12. #162
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    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    Yep, I don't think any doubt remains that the x-fi-related BSOD is a thing of the past! Johnny at Turbine's tireless efforts to finally see this addressed have indeed paid off. Personally I have now played 2-3 months of BSOD-free LotRO.

    If it is not too presumptuous of me to make such a request, as the OP of both threads, might we now have this thread in the General forum merged with the original thread in the Tech Support forum?

    I think this thread has served its purpose in getting the word out about the fix. But it would be nice to have it merged instead of just having it dangling out here.

    (heh, I hope a moderator reads this)

    --H
    Last edited by Hurin; Dec 16 2011 at 02:36 AM.

  13. #163
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    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    A couple of days ago, Creative Labs released version C of the beta driver, fixing the issue of some users who sometimes don't hear any sound at all.

    I hope that means they fixed my problem where the analog device on the soundcard disappears at times, I'll try it this evening.

  14. #164

    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by Neumi View Post
    A couple of days ago, Creative Labs released version C of the beta driver, fixing the issue of some users who sometimes don't hear any sound at all.

    I hope that means they fixed my problem where the analog device on the soundcard disappears at times, I'll try it this evening.
    Do you have a link to this driver? I can only find the A beta on Creatives website for my X-fi Xtreme Gamer

  15. #165
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    Re : X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    You can't install the "C" version, because it is for X-Fi Titanium only. The "A" version is the latest for X-Fi PCI cards. By the way I'm running with the "C" version and have no complain.
    Si la tête est à la mémoire ce que le passé, peut-on y accéder à 6 ?

  16. #166

    Thumbs up Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    I see that this is a fairly old thread but I found it doing a Google search. I am a returning LOTRO player and I've really been enjoying the game again. After many hours of fun gameplay the only problem I had was frequent BSOD's and lock ups. Now this is unusual as I don't really have any other games that give me problems.

    Long story short, I do use an XFi Titanium and I was having constant issues. I downloaded the Beta driver and, problem instantly solved. Not one BSOD in many hours of play since I installed this driver.

    So the OP is right . . . Rejoice!

    Oh and thanks much.

  17. #167
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    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    I've been having Bluescreen issues since the last update (U7). If I go in to the Bree auction House it always does it and I've had it happen a few times just running through Stangard.
    Tech support has led me to the drivers as well now, but I am hesitant to use/try them. I'm willing to try new drivers, but dont see why we would be content with using UNsupporeted Beta drivers to fix this issue? Ther is no technical support for them. Also, I never had a single bluescreen before this in this game and it was only after this last update did I run into this very repeatable issue. That leads me to believe it's the game, not the drivers...
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  18. #168
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    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by IcarusLSC View Post
    I'm willing to try new drivers, but dont see why we would be content with using UNsupporeted Beta drivers to fix this issue? Ther is no technical support for them.
    Were you really anticipating calling Creative for tech support with your sound card? Further, I bet they would help you if you did. And if they won't, you can always remove the beta drivers and install supported ones.

    Also, I never had a single bluescreen before this in this game and it was only after this last update did I run into this very repeatable issue.
    If you have a "true" x-fi as described in the original post, you will get BSODs in LotRO unless you use the fixed/beta drivers from the Creative website. If you were not getting them before (and you haven't changed anything about your sytem), then almost certainly you were running the game's audio setting in "software" mode. Several times in the past, I found that the game would spontaneously switch me back to hardware sound mode. Usually after a game update. So that would explain why you didn't get them prior, and why you're getting them now.

    That leads me to believe it's the game, not the drivers...
    For over two years, we heard arguments that this was the case (usually based on the flawed logic that "it's not happening in any other game so it must be this game at fault"). It's a little strange to still hear them though considering that the drivers have fixed the BSOD issue for everyone that has used them and these drivers were specifically tailored to solve this issue. Check out this post for some numbers that have only improved over the ensuing months.

    A game/application can't actually cause a BSOD on its own. Even if you wanted to write an application that could cause a blue screen, you couldn't do so without exploiting some known problem with Windows or a driver. So, it's actually not possible for LotRO to be the cause, it's only possible for LotRO to be a catalyst that exposes a flaw elsewhere (in this case, Creative prior x-fi drivers).

    If you play LotRO, and you're using a "true" x-fi, and you are running with the in-game sound set "x-fi" (hardware), you will get BSODs. The problem was eventually found to be a problem with Creative's drivers and they (eventually) fixed them. If you aren't willing to use the fixed drivers, that's your choice. But continuing to blame the game makes zero sense considering Turbine, Creative, and some users got together and they all agreed that the problem was the drivers. . . hence the fixed ones!

    So, you're putting us in a position here where many have worked hard to diagnose your condition, and we're offering you medicine that will cure you, but you're for some reason refusing to take the medicine and instead are insisting that the real problem is with the hospital food.

    Best,

    H

  19. #169
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    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    I agree on some of your points, but I had the userini file read only and know it's not been changed. I only undo this on updates and when I want to test or change something.
    I am running an XtremeGamer card, is that considered a real Xfi card?
    I question the game, as for updates with LOTRO it does not require a reboot, and it worked hours before on the same system, with the same settings, drivers, etc. I did check initally the settings you mentioned in the audio, and my video in case as well.
    As I mentioned I'd be happy to try released drivers with support (which I'm using the newest ones) but I am unwilling to try Unsupported drivers, as any issues in the future could just be blamed on them and they'd wipe their hands clean then and there (don't believe me, I'll attach previous support emails from Turbine here saying they don't support Win7 64 bit and to switch OS's before they can even help! - Which I am happy to see they aren't saying anymore to me!)
    Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but I still don't see this being a Creative issue, but a flaw in the recent update that has caused these bluescreens...
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  20. #170
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    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by IcarusLSC View Post
    Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but I still don't see this being a Creative issue, but a flaw in the recent update that has caused these bluescreens...
    Are you running an x-fi? Are you running in hardware mode? If you answer both questions as "yes". . . then BSODs should be expected unless you're running the beta drivers from Creative. If you're unwilling to do that, you're stuck due to your own decision and won't be able to rule out the "x-fi BSOD" as the cause either way. However, didn't you say yourself that Turbine instructed you to try them? Are you now then claiming that they'd instruct you to run something and then wash their hands of you once you followed their instructions?

    Nobody --even those heavily invested previously in arguments that the game was at fault-- still seriously believes that the game is at fault for the x-fi-related BSODs in light of the issue finally being fixed by drivers.

    If you're annoyed that the drivers aren't officially supported, then your issue is (again) with Creative, not Turbine or this game.

    At this point, I suspect you're just having a laugh. Try the new drivers, or don't. . . but I'm no longer convinced you're writing in good faith.

    Good Luck!

    --H

    P.S. instead of running the x-fi in hardware mode, you could always set the in-game sound setting to "generic software" and see if the BSODs cease. If they do, then you've got your culprit, and the only solution is Creative's fixed drivers.
    Last edited by Hurin; May 22 2012 at 04:41 PM.

  21. #171
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    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    I'm not sure your understanding my view point. This is an issue of how the game handles audio. I've tried everything Turbine support has said, short of using UNsupported drivers. I agree and have contacted Creative on the issue of it should be a supported driver, if indeed it is the casue. That still doesn't answer my question as to why it worked before and not now.
    Turbine has told me in the past that they didn't support my OS (drivers software etc) and wouldn't help unless I changed it. I was bringing that up as a point to prove and support the possibilty of being told to go fly a kite in the future if I did have issues with UNsupported drivers. I'm surprised (but see it becoming more common) that companies are releasing unspported beta drivers as if there issues, theres nothing they need to do! It's only when the issues become a majority that they do anything.
    The only laugh I'm having is that no matter how clear I make this, you still think it's all the Creative drivers. It worked before the update, and there is no reason it shouldn't after.
    To me both Turbine (for making an update that doesn't handle audio correctly and brings out this issue you talk about,) and Creative (for not releasing a supported driver) are at fault...
    Last edited by IcarusLSC; May 22 2012 at 05:08 PM.
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  22. #172
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    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by IcarusLSC View Post
    The only laugh I'm having is that no matter how clear I make this, you still think it's all the Creative drivers. It worked before the update, and there is no reason it shouldn't after.
    Indeed, I am certain that the 3+ year-old issue that this thread covers was indeed caused by the Creative drivers. I know this both because of the evidence publicly available and the direct communication I received from the involved parties.

    As for you not having the issue prior. . . I've already explained why that often happens. You claim that this is not a possibility for you and all I can do is take you at your word even though the certainty with which you say it and the assertion that you (for some reason) have your INI file set to read-only doesn't seem completely credible/likely to me.

    Also, keep in mind that some people didn't notice this issue for long periods of time. . . some people swear it only came about with the Moria release while others (myself included) can document that it predates Moria. So it's not unheard of for some people to be blissfully unaware of the issue until some other catalyst suddenly brings the issue to the fore. But in all cases traced back to the x-fi BSOD issue, the root cause of the issue has been the faulty Creative drivers. And they fixed them.

    To me both Turbine (for making an update that doesn't handle audio correctly and brings out this issue you talk about,) and Creative (for not releasing a supported driver) are at fault...
    The fact that the Creative driver fixes the issue described in this thread demonstrates that the game was "handling audio correctly." To say both are to blame when only Creative's drivers needed to be fixed doesn't make a whole lot of sense. That would only make sense if Creative altered their driver to work around a problem with the game. And I can assure that was not what happened.

    If you still think you have a separate issue, despite all evidence to the contrary (since you have an x-fi, are running in hardware mode, and are running the non-beta drivers), then you should go create a new thread perhaps entitled: "BSODs Since Update 7." Be warned though, people will ask if you use an x-fi in hardware mode and then marvel at your unwillingness to implement the already known fix for a known issue. And they'll tell you that you're unlikely to troubleshoot the issue successfully until you do so.

    --H
    Last edited by Hurin; May 22 2012 at 05:16 PM.

  23. #173
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    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    Your implication that I must be lying that I say I keep the file Read Only is unwarranted and doesn't help your cause in me thinking your here to try and help me. I do this with all my games I can.
    I guess I'll just have to take your word too that it's a Creative problem too then? This really seems like an issue of the way the game (this update in this case) handles its audio with Creative drivers that have been out for over a year (Feb '11) and have worked fine with other updates in the game in this period (theres been a few!) I have had issues in the past with LOTRO and suggestions of running audio in sotware vs hardware etc, but they have been fixed in updates for the game.

    I'm sure using the Creative drivers will hopefully fix this issue, but you do need to see my hesitation to use an unsupported driver as I have had issues in the past (not just with LOTRO, I had other issues in GTA VI, they said no to help unless I got rid of the beta video drivers, same with Win 7 and Creative drivers when Win 7 came out!) and companies saying they cant help as it's beta drivers...
    Last edited by IcarusLSC; May 22 2012 at 05:51 PM.
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  24. #174
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    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by IcarusLSC View Post
    I guess I'll just have to take your word too that it's a Creative problem too then? This really seems like an issue of the way the game (this update in this case) handles its audio with Creative drivers that have been out for over a year (Feb '11) and have worked fine with other updates in the game in this period (theres been a few!)
    Again if the game works (does not BSOD) with the beta drivers from Creative, then you can't say there is a problem with the game. Because it's then obviously a problem with the non-beta drivers. It does not matter in the least that you have been unaffected until now for whatever reason (of which there are many possibilities. . . none of which implicate the game). The fact is that you have an affected card and a setting known to cause BSODs. And the fact that you have played this game without issue until now does not indicate what you seem to think it indicates. It only means you were either lucky or for some reason the flaw in those old Creative drivers wasn't being triggered for you. But that flaw (the KNOWN flaw) still exists IN THOSE DRIVERS. But in either case, there is no logical basis for you to then leap to the conclusion that anything beyond the drivers themselves remain the culprit.

    I mean, I just don't know how to be more clear: There is a KNOWN flaw in the drivers you are using. And the fact that you weren't affected by a KNOWN flaw in those drivers until recently somehow makes you believe that there must be some other flaw. That conclusion does not logically follow from the facts at-hand.

    Incidentally, over the course of the last several years, prior to the issue being fixed by Creative, many people (myself included) have noted that the frequency with which the BSOD happen has ebbed and flowed with various updates to the game (though this perhaps also coincided with changes in gameplay patterns). But that does not change the fact that the cause of the BSOD was always a flaw in the driver. Saying that Turbine's game triggered that flaw with varying regularity does not make the game at fault. The flaw still resided in the drivers.

    And, no, I don't see your point about beta drivers in general. You try them. They either fix it or they don't. If they don't fix it, you uninstall them and get on with your life. I realize "beta" is a scary term for some laymen. But in this case, it really shouldn't be. The BSODs you're suffering are a lot worse than any trumped up risks from running a "beta" driver (especially one as widely lauded as this one). You seem to be doing yourself a disservice by becoming fixated on the nature of these drivers being "UNsupported" despite there being no complaints about them (especially since the latest release). Likewise, you seem fixated on how your experience doesn't match up exactly to the experience related by most others.

    If I seem frustrated, it's because you seem unwilling to be helped. Like I said, the doctor has shown you that you are genetically predisposed to a disease (the x-fi gene), he has demonstrated that your lifestyle has brought your disease into an acute stage (hardware sound setting), and he has given you a pill that will almost certainly cure you (beta drivers) or at the very least rule out this disease as a cause for your symptoms. He also assures you that any side-effects of the pill are easily reversed. And for some bizarre reason, you want to argue about why the onset of the disease didn't happen quite like the textbook says it should despite you knowing that you have both the gene, the lifestyle/catalyst, and all the symptoms. And then, to top it all off, you essentially ignore everything the doctor has told you in order to bizarrely implicate the hospital food for making you sick as well.

    Dude, try the drivers. Or set the game to software sound. If the BSODs go away, then you know it's your old/outdated Creative drivers. . . either way, I'm done talking to walls.

    --H
    Last edited by Hurin; May 22 2012 at 06:27 PM.

  25. #175
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    Re: X-fi Users Rejoice! (Creative Releases Drivers to Fix BSOD Issue)

    It was the game update that triggered this known flaw in the drivers, as i've ran it in hardware mode with uax enabled before this update and it was fine. Turbine has acknowledged this too now. Their soution as well as yours is to use an unsupported driver, though I bet in the next update the hardware mode/uax will suddenly start working fine again (as it has in the past.) But no, this isn't the games fault?!

    As I said I've had issues with unsupported drivers in the past too, and won't use them for those reasons (some of which I've listed.) I'll talk with Creative an see if they can release a supported driver for us to use (yah, I know my chances are slim to nil, but thats looking like my only option as Turbine doesn't want to change anything in the game which trigged this known issue that been known for years!)

    I've spent many, many hunderds of dollars on this one game over the years since it came out and put up with many issues, bugs etc. Perhaps its time to delete this game and stop paying Turbine money to play at all, that will change things more than trying to get it fixed properly so it works and all are happy and they are still getting my money, right?! I may not make a difference alone, but once the servers are empty as others get fed up with constant issues/bugs (want me to get into these too?) then Turbine might get the idea...

    It does seem that we are both talking to walls, though I do thank you for trying to help this one
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