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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    385

    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    More information after the release of Isengard expansion:

    The vast majority of pocket items which had the Melee Defence, Ranged Defence, and Tactical Defence bonuses have been modified to Physical and Tactical Mitigation (I'm saying vast majority because I've only checked a few of them, but I suspect they've done it to all of them).

    There are still, however, a few items that provide the old Defence bonuses (by damage source), and the new character panel correctly displays those bonuses. The conversion of rating to % for these bonuses is still the same as before.

    The items I have identified which still have the old bonus are:
    - The Stalwart Guardian scroll from Midnight Raid (applied to the legendary class item to give +600 Melee Defence)
    - Some old relics, ones you can't get any more:
    -- Tier 7, 8 and 9 Gems (Moonstone Gem of the Stars, Adamant Gem of the Moon, Emerald Gem of the Verdant Glen), and
    -- Tier 6 and 8 Runes (Profound Rune of Action/Swift Step, Ancient Rune of Thunder/Storm).

    If you know of other items please post here.

    Let's hope they'll continue to be nice enough to leave us those items unchanged.


    I can also confirm that they've changed the formulas which convert Rating to % for Mitigations, and Offence. All the rest remains the same as far as I can tell. It seems clear though, that for the same mitigation rating, Heavy armour wearers get a higher % damage reduction than Light armour wearers for both physical and tactical damage. See this thread for more precise info.
    Last edited by Alad.; Oct 27 2011 at 11:09 PM. Reason: Added link to RoI stat changes thread
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  2. #102

    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    One thing I'm noticing about Finesse which concerns me is the wide disparity between Finesse available and BPE available. Finesse in general seems to be coming in lumps of close to 1000, whereas BPE is closer to 100.

    The Warden 7pc Draigoch set(w/ cloak) has a raw total of 332 Parry and 332 Block. If you add in the Might and Agility values, it adds 1064 Block rating, 698 Parry rating, and 0 Evade rating. It has a raw total of 2988 Finesse, along with every other set. So the Finesse any class gains from their set negates the BPE gained 3 to 4 times over. 2988 Finesse negates roughly 9% BPE.

    Currently I can self-buff my Block to 11081, that's with Ward of Justice, Skillful Blocking, Shield Mastery, Defensive Strike, the lucky shield block proc, and 856 Might(possibly more than I'll have when I upgrade slots). This equates to 23.9%. My Evade gets to 5889 (15.1%). Parry gets to 4660(13.5%), with WoS legacy. On the other hand my Finesse with no effort whatsoever and tank jewelry is 5400, which negates 15.4% BPE. So fighting myself I effectively have 8.4% Parry, 10% Evade, and 18.7% Block, with every buff up. These numbers are lower than those that were achievable pre-update with all buffs up, with the excepton of Block(only because Defensive Strike is now usable and I unrealistically factored in 2400 rating from proc and trait).

    I'm not doom and glooming yet, only having full gear and going in the raids will tell. On the bright side Vitality directly contributes to both Physical and Tactical mitigation. The other downside though is our HoTs and leeches haven't been scaled seemingly whatsoever. Empirically I do seem to be taking a ton more damage right now and am able to heal less of it proportionally.
    Last edited by Jacbo; Sep 30 2011 at 02:51 AM.
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  3. #103
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    172

    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacbo View Post
    One thing I'm noticing about Finesse which concerns me is the wide disparity between Finesse available and BPE available. Finesse in general seems to be coming in lumps of close to 1000, whereas BPE is closer to 100.

    The Warden 7pc Draigoch set(w/ cloak) has a raw total of 332 Parry and 332 Block. If you add in the Might and Agility values, it adds 1064 Block rating, 698 Parry rating, and 0 Evade rating. It has a raw total of 2988 Finesse, along with every other set. So the Finesse any class gains from their set negates the BPE gained 3 to 4 times over. 2988 Finesse negates roughly 9% BPE.

    Currently I can self-buff my Block to 11081, that's with Ward of Justice, Skillful Blocking, Shield Mastery, Defensive Strike, the lucky shield block proc, and 856 Might(possibly more than I'll have when I upgrade slots). This equates to 23.9%. My Evade gets to 5889 (15.1%). Parry gets to 4660(13.5%), with WoS legacy. On the other hand my Finesse with no effort whatsoever and tank jewelry is 5400, which negates 15.4% BPE. So fighting myself I effectively have 0% Parry, 0% Evade, and 8.9% Block, assuming I put up all those buffs, or Block would be lower.

    I'm not doom and glooming yet, only having full gear and going in the raids will tell. On the bright side Vitality directly contributes to both Physical and Tactical mitigation. The other downside though is our HoTs and leeches haven't been scaled seemingly whatsoever. Empirically I do seem to be taking a ton more damage right now and am able to heal less of it proportionally.
    Fighting yourself you actually have.....
    18.8% Block, 10% Evade, 8.4% Parry. This is better looking than quite a few non tank classes get if they are against 0 finesse, and if they don't have block they will likely suffer more vs finesse also. Finesse of 15.4% being then split between all three of the BPE stats (Uncertain if you only have two if it gets split between just the two, or as if you had three).

    As for why Finesse comes in larger numbers, remember no stat gives a natural finesse gain, so your only finesse source is a direct bonus from gear, or a skill that adds it. BPE all get buffed by stats, both natural & from gear.

  4. #104

    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by BernardG View Post
    Fighting yourself you actually have.....
    18.8% Block, 10% Evade, 8.4% Parry. This is better looking than quite a few non tank classes get if they are against 0 finesse, and if they don't have block they will likely suffer more vs finesse also. Finesse of 15.4% being then split between all three of the BPE stats (Uncertain if you only have two if it gets split between just the two, or as if you had three).

    As for why Finesse comes in larger numbers, remember no stat gives a natural finesse gain, so your only finesse source is a direct bonus from gear, or a skill that adds it. BPE all get buffed by stats, both natural & from gear.
    Modified the numbers, I must have accidentally subtracted the entire percentile from each one.
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