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  1. #76

    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderchickn View Post
    To your second point, I was under the impression that this was happening:


    If it isn't, it still doesn't change my point. I only included the duration to show how long it would last before we would want to refresh which was a nice plus. The healing itself is still there for us to make up a 5-10% gap in damage taken compared to a Guard even if it lasts the 18s we currently have.
    Currently this has not been implemented in beta, so maybe they have changed their minds.
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  2. #77

    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderchickn View Post
    [...] I don't know any Wardens who currently hit the medium armor cap [...]
    With the best sheild, the best armor (6*OD), 650 might and all virtues which give common defence you end up at 6350 which give ~39% common mit! Just for the fun of it

    No armor cap at non-common dmg tho, which is awsome! 45% shadow defence ftws
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  3. #78
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    AW: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    I’m also a bit confused by this new physical mitigation. As it is that high, is there a contribution from armour value to this or just from vit/might?

    So does this mean

    A common melee attack -> common mitigation
    A fire melee attack -> physical mitigation
    Any tactical attack -> tactical mitigation of the appropriate damage type ?

    That would mean for physical attacks the damage type doesn’t matter apart from common/non-common, but for tactical damage it does ?
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  4. #79
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    Re: AW: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Araelinnis View Post
    that would mean for physical attacks the damage type doesn’t matter apart from common/non-common, but for tactical damage it does ?
    not really.. there is only one rating that influences tactical mitigation so it mitigates all damage types at the same rate
    (not confirming that what you wrote is right or wrong)
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  5. #80
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    Re: AW: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Araelinnis View Post
    I’m also a bit confused by this new physical mitigation. As it is that high, is there a contribution from armour value to this or just from vit/might?

    So does this mean
    A common melee attack -> common mitigation
    A fire melee attack -> physical mitigation
    Any tactical attack -> tactical mitigation of the appropriate damage type ?
    That would mean for physical attacks the damage type doesn’t matter apart from common/non-common, but for tactical damage it does ?
    That's what I understand (but I haven't read of any certain confirmation of this).

    Like flyingcircus said, while all the non-common mitigation types are listed separately, they are all the same value.

    It's almost like someone changed the stats panel with the intention of making the stats as hard as possible to understand .
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  6. #81
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    Re: AW: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Evendale View Post
    Like flyingcircus said, while all the non-common mitigation types are listed separately, they are all the same value.
    IIRC, one of the devs stated on the beta forum they were leaving it like that for beta only, so that we could find items that had not been converted properly (ie only modifying one part of the new unified stat). I did find that on one of the builds that Stalwart Guardian and old relics still just modified melee defence/melee crit defence that way.
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  7. #82
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    Re: AW: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Azerog View Post
    IIRC, one of the devs stated on the beta forum they were leaving it like that for beta only, so that we could find items that had not been converted properly (ie only modifying one part of the new unified stat). I did find that on one of the builds that Stalwart Guardian and old relics still just modified melee defence/melee crit defence that way.
    From Graal's dev diary on stat changes:
    Tactical Mitigation – this stat will replace the various mitigation types used for tactical skills, Fire, Lightning, Frost, Acid and Shadow. Damage will still have a damage type because some skills will modify a specific mitigation but in general, you will mitigate tactical damage using your Tactical Mitigation stat.
    So I assume they're all gonna be listed still.
    Last edited by Evendale; Sep 13 2011 at 11:22 AM.
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  8. #83
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    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    I stand corrected. Maybe I was just thinking of the separate melee and range stats.
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  9. #84

    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Solyaris View Post
    With the best sheild, the best armor (6*OD), 650 might and all virtues which give common defence you end up at 6350 which give ~39% common mit! Just for the fun of it

    No armor cap at non-common dmg tho, which is awsome! 45% shadow defence ftws
    That's what I meant, even with the best of everything you're nowhere near the armor cap. Unless that was a typo and you meant 49%
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  10. #85

    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderchickn View Post
    That's what I meant, even with the best of everything you're nowhere near the armor cap. Unless that was a typo and you meant 49%
    I am pretty sure he mean 39% - medium armour cap on live is 40%

    I think I sit at 37% or so and the mins armour buff takes me to cap
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  11. #86

    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Going back to the original point, don't our self heals balance out the greater guard mitigation?


    Also am I missing something or doesn't finesse only have to do with receiving damage and not giving? In other words how I understand finesse is it never affects your "to hit" value only your "to be hit" value.

  12. #87
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    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Pellwen View Post
    Going back to the original point, don't our self heals balance out the greater guard mitigation?


    Also am I missing something or doesn't finesse only have to do with receiving damage and not giving? In other words how I understand finesse is it never affects your "to hit" value only your "to be hit" value.
    YOUR finesse affects YOUR ability to hit a mob (you reduce its b/p/e/r)

    A MOB'S finesse affects IT'S ability to hit you (it reduces your b/p/e/r)

    Self heals are something that one actively does, mitigations are a passive ability/attribute. It yet to be seen if we can generate enough threat to tank, keep up avoidances enough to not die, and self-heal enough to make up those mitigations all at the same time. Actually its not really possible, the heals are starting to fall off as you finish the rotation. We'll have to pick threat or survivability to focus on at a given part of a fight, so same as always.

    Only a couple more weeks and we'll know more.

  13. #88

    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolfast View Post
    I am pretty sure he mean 39% - medium armour cap on live is 40%

    I think I sit at 37% or so and the mins armour buff takes me to cap
    You're right, I had skimmed through Evandale's post to double check what the cap was and misread it. My mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pellwen View Post
    Going back to the original point, don't our self heals balance out the greater guard mitigation?


    Also am I missing something or doesn't finesse only have to do with receiving damage and not giving? In other words how I understand finesse is it never affects your "to hit" value only your "to be hit" value.
    Our heals (just a Conviction in most cases) are enough to balance out the extra damage we take when you factor in both a Guardian's higher mitigation and our higher BPE. I don't think our heals alone will balance out the mitigation gap between the two classes, but we don't need it to because we have superior BPE.

    I do think Guards will come out with slightly less damage taken (5-10% compared to us) but our heals will line up nicely with that amount of damage. Like I said previously, 5-10% of every 10,000 damage taken is only 500-1,000 damage. That's easily negated with just a Conviction (~200/tick for 7 ticks). Sure, a direct heal would be better but we're not going to be taking that hypothetical 10,000 damage instantly, judging from current boss DPS values that would take a minimum of 10-15 seconds to take that much damage from boss attacks (not counting a condition that needs to be removed, standing in a puddle of damage, etc). I think both tanking classes will be in a good place with RoI.

    As to your last question, ENEMY FINESSE hurts our BPE and resistance. OUR FINESSE hurts enemy BPE and resistance. The subject of this thread is focused on the former, not the latter.

    EDIT: Someone beat me to that last part. Also, I'm not worried about having the time to keep up all of these things in combat. The new duration trait will help with buffs, and honestly I find myself putting up most if not all of my buffs in a given boss fight anyways, out of sheer boredom (lately also partly from practicing for RoI). I usually have a Conviction going more than 50% of the time as well. I don't think it will be as big a deal to keep everything up as it might seem. We can put out SO much threat in such a short time, that continues to build on itself for the next 16s or so. I'm not at all concerned about being able to hold aggro, I rarely even use threat generating skills the last half of a fight or so (this applies to normal tank-n-spank fights of course). Once in awhile PB but that's it, build up the threat early and you won't have to work it into your rotation as much later. This might be a necessary adjustment with RoI since we will need to be using a lot of BPE throughout the fight, getting a bunch of threat out of the way early will help (while surviving with just SM+DS for a little while at first).
    Last edited by thunderchickn; Sep 13 2011 at 03:23 PM.
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  14. #89
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    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterion View Post
    Physical (ranged/melee) - if common damage attack - more is mitigated is how I read that - it is pretty confusing



    Tactical - pretty self explanitory


    I think people are just misinterpreting what they see on these pictures. Here's what I understand:


    1) There is no more damage mitigation by Source (Melee Defence, Ranged Defence, and Tactical Defence Ratings have been removed from Virtues, from the Scrolls of Warding and from all items), source:

    From the beta patch notes Build 1:

    • (BETA ONLY) Melee, Ranged, and Tactical Defense has been removed from all existing items and replaced with Physical or Tactical Mitigation. In some cases where an item had all three defense stats the third was replaced with a Critical Rating bonus.
    • BBETA ONLY: Scrolls of Warding have been updated so that the Melee, Range, and Tactical Defense bonuses have been replaced with Physical/Tactical Mitigation.

    You can see in the above pics these values are 0. I wonder why they still display them in the character journal, perhaps to make the point clear.



    2) Common Mitigation has been nerfed. A Rating of 9559 (from the above pics, "Physical Mitigation") would give you today (before RoI) 46.0% at level 75. The pics above show only 40.4%. Further, after adding 80% of Mistden's Armour value (I'm guessing it's 5965), the rating for Common Mitigation goes up to 14031 (as seen in the pic), which today would give 55.5%, while it only gives 49.9% in RoI as shown in the pics.

    Remember what they said about the mitigation curves:

    • We now have different formulas for Heavy, Medium and Light armor mitigations. The point at which diminishing returns starts having a major effect is different for each armor type now.

    This means that, instead of having just one Mitigation formula for all armour types (Heavy, Medium, Light) and then just capping the % to 50/40/30% depending on armour type (i.e. cutting off the curve when it reaches that %), they now have different curves for each armour type. The above nerf must result from the fact that the curve for medium armour now has a slower slope than that of heavy armour (so they don't have to cut it off as abruptly as before), and the light armour mitigation curve has a still slower slope. (PS: A small calculation I did a moment ago from Mist's Guard data seems to show that Heavy Armour curve is now actually steeper than it used to be; so they'll get Physical Mitigation % and Common Mitigation % faster than even now). It would also mean that while, for e.g., 2000 armour value from before would have given 15.1% common mitigation to all players equally (heavy/medium/light), after RoI the heavies will get more mitigation than the mediums and the mediums more than the light, from the same total armour value. This is indeed a huge hit, especially to light armour wearers, to minstrels who now cannot wear medium armour any more, and to wardens when compared to guardians. But common damage is not the type of damage used most in difficult fights. So this will mainly affect soloing survivability.



    3) Lastly, Tactical Mitigation: A value of 6481 (from the pics) in Fire, Shadow, Acid etc.. mitigation today would give 36.6% mitigation at 75. The screenshot show a nerf here too, since you only get 32.3% after RoI.

    The tooltip is easy to understand:
    You have a base Tactical Mitigation rating which applies as a base to all of those types of damage. Then each damage type can get a further buff which increases mitigation to it, generally from skills such as the minstrel's fire damage reduction buff, or the raven's shadow damage reduction aura. It becomes clear when you reread the beta 0 release notes:

    • Tactical Mitigation – this stat will replace the various mitigation types used for tactical skills, Fire, Lightning, Frost, Acid and Shadow. Damage will still have a damage type because some skills will modify a specific mitigation but in general, you will mitigate tactical damage using your Tactical Mitigation stat.
    • You should no longer see individual Fire/Frost/Light/Lightning/Acid/Shadow mitigation lines in the Player, Monster Player, and Session Player character journals. Instead, you should see a single base Tactical mitigation value with a tooltip that details the individual Damage Type mitigations.
    • You should no longer see individual Common/Ancient Dwarf/Beleriand/Westernesse mitigation lines in the Player, Monster Player, and Session Player character journals. Instead, you should see a single base Physical mitigation value with a tooltip that details the individual Damage Type mitigations.

    Understanding how this tooltip works you can go back and look at the Physical Mitigation tooltip and interpret it in the same way. There is a base Physical Mitigation which affects Common, Ancient Dwarf, Westernesse and Beleriand types of damage (the latter come into play only for mobs and in spars). Then you have one line for each damage type, with any added mitigation bonuses added in. They only show the Common Mitigation line. This is the only mitigation that will apply when hit with common damage, not the sum of the two mitigations.



    So, in summary, if the Warden Mistden in the pics gets a 500 shadow damage hit, it will only be mitigated by the shown 32.3%, no matter what the source of the hit was (melee/ranged/tactical). Whereas if today's rules still applied at level 75, that same hit would have been reduced by 36.6% plus a further reduction which depended on his Tactical Defence (assuming the hit came from a tactical skill).
    Last edited by Alad.; Sep 20 2011 at 01:28 AM.
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  15. #90
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    Re: AW: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Araelinnis View Post
    I’m also a bit confused by this new physical mitigation. As it is that high, is there a contribution from armour value to this or just from vit/might?

    So does this mean
    A common melee attack -> common mitigation
    A fire melee attack -> physical mitigation
    Any tactical attack -> tactical mitigation of the appropriate damage type ?
    That would mean for physical attacks the damage type doesn’t matter apart from common/non-common, but for tactical damage it does ?
    I think what this means is:

    Common damage -> Common Mitigation
    Fire Damage -> Fire Mitigation
    Shadow Damage -> Shadow Mitigation
    etc...

    Nothing will use the "Physical Mitigation" or the "Tactical Mitigation" alone. Those are just the base values for the types of damage in their group.

    Physical Mitigation Rating should come from Might, Vitality, plus any gear/trait/buff with a Physical Mitigation bonus.
    Tactical Mitigation Rating should come from Vitality, plus any gear/trait/buff with a Tactical Mitigation bonus.
    Then Armour should come and add to Physical mitigation (80% of Armour), to result in Common Mitigation (and I suspect Westernesse, Beleriand and Ancient Dwarf mitigations too, which are not listed.)
    Skill buffs which add to Fire/Shadow/etc.. mitigation come and add to Tactical Mitigation, to result in the mitigation specific to that damage type.

    This is how I understand it, while not participating in the beta.
    Last edited by Alad.; Sep 20 2011 at 01:32 AM.
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  16. #91
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    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Alad. View Post
    I think what this means is:

    Common damage -> Common Mitigation
    Fire Damage -> Fire Mitigation
    Shadow Damage -> Shadow Mitigation
    etc...

    Nothing will use the "Physical Mitigation" or the "Tactical Mitigation" alone. Those are just the base values for the types of damage in their group.

    Physical Mitigation Rating should come from Might, plus any gear/trait with a Physical Mitigation bonus.
    Tactical Mitigation Rating should come from Vitality, plus any gear/trait with a Tactical Mitigation bonus.
    Then Armour should come and add to Physical mitigation, to result in Common Mitigation (and I suspect Westernesse, Beleriand and Ancient Dwarf mitigations too, which are not listed.)
    Skill buffs which add to Fire/Shadow/etc.. mitigation come and add to Tactical Mitigation, to result in the mitigation specific to that damage type.

    This is how I understand it, while not participating in the beta.
    I think you're right, though that only marginally differs (in effect) from what Myst suggested.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alad. View Post
    2) Common Mitigation has been nerfed. A Rating of 9559 (from the above pics, "Physical Mitigation") would give you today (before RoI) 46.0% at level 75. The pics above show only 40.4%. Further, after adding Mistden's Armour value (I'm guessing it's 4772), the rating for Common Mitigation goes up to 14031 (as seen in the pic), which today would give 55.5%, while it only gives 49.9% in RoI as shown in the pics.
    Currently medium armour mitigation cap is:
    40%+((1-40%)*15%) = 49.0%

    So anything over 49% (such as 49.9%) can't possibly be seen as an (absolute) nerf. The ratings may now have more diminishing returns as you suggest, but at the same time it appears to be much easier to get higher ratings (see Virtue changes, no cap on vit in conjunction with tank armour sets very heavy on vit, etc) so the overall effect is going to be an increase in overall mitigations.

    The same is true for tactical mitigations. In Myst's Guardian screenshots with Ward (but no external buffs), for example, Tactical Mitigation reached 51.1%. Currently, without external buffs you'd never get much over 30% non-common mitigation. Even if your tactical damage source mitigation was maxed at 15%, this would equate to only:
    30%+((1-30%)*15%) = 40.5%
    (see http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...50#post5660550)

    Presumably, Wardens can achieve similar gains in mitigation if they stack a little more vitality (Myst only has 8.5k morale in the Warden screenshots).

    The goal of different Diminishing Return scales for different armour types is presumably to make similar amounts of rating (slightly less for lesser armour types) required to reach the mitigation cap (something needed to be done about the fact that physical mitigation, which is now very common among virtues, offers the same rating value to any type of armour wearer, as does vitality which can contribute almost as much - maybe more - to mitigation rating now than armour does).



    tldr: Mitigations will be (considerably) higher in RoI. Different diminishing return values on armour types just adds another layer of complexity where the devs will probably screw up balancing (most likely in favour of Guardians thanks to Ward).
    Last edited by Evendale; Sep 19 2011 at 08:13 PM.
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  17. #92
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    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Evendale View Post
    Currently medium armour mitigation cap is:
    40%+((1-40%)*15%) = 49.0%
    I had a tough time figuring out that calculation, then it clicked You are referring to the combination of the 2 mitigation stages: By source (15%) and by type (40%). I would express it as follows (it's just clearer to me):
    Total mitigation = 1 - (1-0.4)*(1-0.15) = 0.49 or 49%

    And this of course applies today at level 65 before RoI.

    Seeing the 40.4% on the screenshot implies the 40% cap on common mitigation was removed. The question is therefore, what would have happened at level 75 had they not nerfed the mitigation formula?

    With a rating of 14031 as in the pics, you would have obtained 55.5% common mitigation. Together with the 15% mitigation by source (since you're counting that), the total mitigation would have been:
    Total mitigation at 75 with 14031 rating = 1 - (1-0.555)*(1-0.15) = 62.2%

    Instead, the mitigation is 49.9% in reality. Hence a double nerf; once because of the loss of mitigation by source, and again because of the nerf in the conversion of mitigation rating to mitigation %.

    There is no way I would see this as an improvement in mitigation.

    So anything over 49% (such as 49.9%) can't possibly be seen as an (absolute) nerf.
    What they did is the definition itself of an absolute nerf. You don't expect to level up 10 more levels to find yourself almost back where you started, do you?

    The ratings may now have more diminishing returns as you suggest, but at the same time it appears to be much easier to get higher ratings (see Virtue changes, no cap on vit in conjunction with tank armour sets very heavy on vit, etc) so the overall effect is going to be an increase in overall mitigations.
    I've discussed Virtue changes to mitigations in my thread. I don't see how you can call those changes anything other than nerfs, except for the Shadow Defence change which I consider to be a fair trade, barely.
    As for the cap removals, they are completely outside of the scope of this discussion, since they would have affected us one way or the other.

    The same is true for tactical mitigations. In Myst's Guardian screenshots with Ward (but no external buffs), for example, Tactical Mitigation reached 51.1%. Currently, without external buffs you'd never get much over 30% non-common mitigation. Even if your tactical damage source mitigation was maxed at 15%, this would equate to only:
    30%+((1-30%)*15%) = 40.5%
    (see http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...50#post5660550)
    This is thanks to a new skill "Guardian's Ward Tactics" which replaces the old skill and adds Tactical Mitigation. Plus the fact that Vitality will add 4x its value to Tactical Mitigation (instead of the current 2x) and the guardian example taken had plenty of it (1072 in fact). I'm certain that with those 2 changes alone you would be able to get above 40.5% easily.

    The goal of different Diminishing Return scales for different armour types is presumably to make similar amounts of rating (slightly less for lesser armour types) required to reach the mitigation cap
    But that doesn't make sense, since until further notice, Light Armour has a lot less armour value (not just slightly less) than Heavy Armour. I heard they increased the armour values, we'll see where that takes us.

    (something needed to be done about the fact that physical mitigation, which is now very common among virtues, offers the same rating value to any type of armour wearer, as does vitality which can contribute almost as much - maybe more - to mitigation rating now than armour does).
    Innocence and Compassion have it. Just 648 Physical Mitigation each. That's not a big deal. Besides, given that Physical Mitigation only reduces common damage (compared the Melee Defence which it replaced at double its value in the case of innocence), I for one, will most probably not be slotting Innocence again on my characters. Compassion? It's second bonus is NCPR Wouldn't slot that either.
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  18. #93
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    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Alad. View Post
    There is no way I would see this as an improvement in mitigation.
    49.9% > 49% isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alad. View Post
    What they did is the definition itself of an absolute nerf. You don't expect to level up 10 more levels to find yourself almost back where you started, do you?
    I guess you weren't around for Moria? That was much closer to what you could call a nerf.

    They can't exactly let % values increase and increase and increase because at some point you reach a limit (100%), right?


    At the end of the day, the amount of damage we take is irrelevant. Mob damage will be scaled to match regardless. What's really important, imo, is the relative difference in damage taken by different classes.
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  19. #94
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    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Evendale View Post
    49.9% > 49% isn't it?
    Sure. It's also bigger than 20%, which is probably the mitigation you had at level 10. You're comparing mitigation at level 75 which would be 62.2% without the nerfs, with mitigation at level 65.

    I guess you weren't around for Moria? That was much closer to what you could call a nerf.
    Sure I was. I regret having trusted the devs at the time and not getting interested in what was happening in that beta. This is why I'm trying to stay informed this time around and read between the lines of the ever cryptic dev diaries and patch notes. Have you read anywhere a clear statement saying that Mitigation by source is being removed from the mechanics?

    They can't exactly let % values increase and increase and increase because at some point you reach a limit (100%), right?
    No dad, they can't. But mom probably would have known how to do it otherwise in such a way as to avoid that % issue altogether. Hence my skepticism that these changes are good or final. They will break their changes with other changes before long. A clear example is the way they're changing how finesse works on BPE (from rating to %).

    At the end of the day, the amount of damage we take is irrelevant. Mob damage will be scaled to match regardless. What's really important, imo, is the relative difference in damage taken by different classes.
    Agreed. But the devs don't seem to know how to do that, or they would have done it from the start without needing to resort to percentages. Take a look at the AD&D combat mechanics for an example.

    I guess we are going off-topic for this thread. I invite you to discuss the mitigation issue further in this other thread, if you feel like it.
    Last edited by Alad.; Sep 20 2011 at 12:37 PM.
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  20. #95
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    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Yea, sorry about the (slightly relevant) de-rail. I posted back in the other thread now.
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  21. #96
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    AW: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Thank you for the explanation. Sounds reasonable as well.

    However, if a fireball and a flaming arrow both use the same fire mitigation listed under tactical, then I find the way this information is displayed misleading.
    This would also mean that tactical mitigation will be a lot more important than it is now. I don't say this is a bad thing, but if that's true then I won't care too much about physical mitigation on my virtues (unless I'm going back to mirkwood to pay a visit to Durchest).
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  22. #97
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    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    I know that broken things stay broken in this game for A Very Long Time. Especially the ones concerning us (or maybe I'm just prejudiced).

    Are they going to be retooling all the old bosses for scaled instances and adding finesse to them? If not, then there's only going to be one raid over the next several months that'll matter at all, and that we probably won't be doing right when the new quest pack comes out anyway.

    Not happy about losing passives. Not happy about the virtue nerfs (cos that's what they are). Not happy about this stat 'simplification' that I can't figure out, it reminds me too much of what WoW did in Cata, and that was bad enough to give up the game.

    But if we can't tank anymore, and hopefully it becomes obvious between now and December or January or whenever they're releasing the instance pack, then maybe we'll get a hotfix?

    Or am I being horribly over-optimistic here?

  23. #98
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    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Do we know that mitigations are multiplicative, not additive?
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  24. #99
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    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by ANewMachine View Post
    Do we know that mitigations are multiplicative, not additive?
    Not sure how much you read, but the point is that while they are multiplicative now, they are being combined into only one (much larger) mitigation value in RoI. The end result being that heavy armour wearers will presumably have relatively much larger mitigation than medium/light armour wearers as compared to now.
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  25. #100
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    Re: Finesse changed, now hurts wardens more than guards

    Quote Originally Posted by ANewMachine View Post
    Do we know that mitigations are multiplicative, not additive?
    Yes they are multiplicative. Or were, since there will soon be only 1 stage left apparently.
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