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  1. #101
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    Jul 2008
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    So the base cooldown is 20 seconds and the duration is 10? How big of an increase is the legacy?

    What is the minimum investment in traits and legacies to get 100% uptime on one anthem? Not counting traitline permanent anthems. Can it be done just with the legacy or is it a minimum legacy + 1Y?

  2. #102
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    Nov 2010
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    Wandering Server: Laurelin
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Dedfyre View Post
    So the base cooldown is 20 seconds and the duration is 10? How big of an increase is the legacy?

    What is the minimum investment in traits and legacies to get 100% uptime on one anthem? Not counting traitline permanent anthems. Can it be done just with the legacy or is it a minimum legacy + 1Y?
    The legacy gives a +10 second duration I believe. So with that alone you'll be fine to keep one/two (with the traitline) up permanently.
    Loves her puppies forever!
    My Puppielooks! White, Innocent, Cute, Brave, Perfect! *_*

  3. #103

    Cool Gilrain minstrel chat channel

    AMAZING post! thank you so much!

    for all GILRAIN minis, i've started a chatchannel where all us minis can discuss the new changes and help each other out
    type /joinchannel minstrels and join the chat
    [SIZE=1][/SIZE][B][COLOR=#ff00ff]06/15 09:08:25 PM World Gardaness: 'Finda is Gilrain's Den mother, Been here longer than freaking Bombadil'[/COLOR][/B][SIZE=1]
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  4. #104
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    25

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    For running as support the difference between 3Y and 4Y is pretty huge. At 3Y you can maintain 2 anthems 100% with some wiggle room assuming you have maxed the legacy. 4Y is a jump to being able to fit in six.

    Seems like that might be a stronger choice in small fellowships or even regular fellowships where you don't really need the throughput of full blue traiting.

    Given we can't reduce tale power cost anymore, do the improved tales feel worth it on beta? If not, Assuming chord and RtS get power reductions to put them inline with BC now would that help to improve it's functionality?

  5. #105

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Can someone comment on the size of the Hammerhand bubble and what it costs to cast? I'm not sure if it is worth using, but need real numbers please.
    Adaaon (Minstrel), Gwydionn (Hunter), Tarrann (Burglar)
    [url]http://thenoldor.guildlaunch.com[/url]

  6. #106
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    Can someone comment on the size of the Hammerhand bubble and what it costs to cast? I'm not sure if it is worth using, but need real numbers please.
    I would advice to actually read the great post Narlinde made...*sigh*
    It's all in it and very, very easy to find even without using ctrl + F.

    But anyway:
    - Song of the Hammerhand: 1980 morale for 30 seconds and it costs 306 power, if it expires it gives 5% power back.
    - Gift of the Hammerhand: 1697 for 10 seconds and it costs 188 power.
    Loves her puppies forever!
    My Puppielooks! White, Innocent, Cute, Brave, Perfect! *_*

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Warwickshire, England
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    163

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    +rep indeed. These changes will finally make me want to play my Minnie again. I came from DAOC a long time ago and rolled one up, hoping that things might run in a similar fashion to the Skald I had there which I dearly miss to this day. With the proposed introduction of the war speech changes AND the harmony stance maybe I can get my groove back...
    Dwarves are AWESOME, elves .......... not so much.

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  8. #108
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    3,025

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    As of the current build on Bullroarer, the skill icons for Minor Ballad and Perfect Ballad have changed. This is a welcome change, for me, because now they are much more distinctly different. The buff icon for the Melody of Battle has also changed. I've updated the guide with new screenshots!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tingilinde View Post
    About the changes though..Am I correct in thinking that even though if you trait 3 blue and you get x% more healing for each major ballad this only applies if you're in Melody? I really hope this is not the case because, in my opinion, this would greatly reduce the attraction to actually change ballads in the middle of the fight to conserve power or heal/damage more.
    The 2-equipped bonus for +5% and the 4-equipped bonus for +10% outgoing healing on the Watcher of Resolve line are base, passive modifiers. No matter what stance you are in, if you have 2 equipped WoR traits you will receive 5% outgoing healing and if you have 4 equipped you will get 15% outgoing healing. Part of the 3-equipped WoR bonus is +1% healing to each Major Ballad buff. Therefore, if you have 3-WoR traits equipped, no matter what stance you are in, and you put up 3 Major Ballad buffs on yourself, you will have an extra +3% outgoing healing. With 4-WoR equipped, that goes up to 9%.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dedfyre View Post
    So the base cooldown is 20 seconds and the duration is 10? How big of an increase is the legacy?

    What is the minimum investment in traits and legacies to get 100% uptime on one anthem? Not counting traitline permanent anthems. Can it be done just with the legacy or is it a minimum legacy + 1Y?
    Traited and legacied for maximum anthem buffage, the shared cooldown on the Anthem buffs is 5 seconds and the duration for each buff is 30 seconds. To get there, you have to trait 4-deep into Protector of Song (and you MUST trait Glorious Anthem and Smooth Voice) and have a maxed out legacy for Anthem Duration on your weapon.

    For keeping up just one Anthem, you can do it with just the legacy alone (note that if you trait 4-deep into any of the lines, you get a "free" anthem that becomes combat-permanent). Here's an example: For DPS, I've been traiting 5 Warrior-skald + Capstone, of course, plus the PoS trait Smooth Voice (and something else). I also have the legacy for Anthem Duration on my weapon and have ranked it up to 8, giving me +8.9 seconds to my Anthems. Thus, I have an Anthem cooldown of 15 seconds with a duration of 18.9 seconds to give me a little wiggle room. If you don't want to trait any PoS to get there, it is possible with a maxed out legacy to have a 20 second Anthem duration on a 20 second cooldown, but personally I like a little wiggle room. Usually, when I am in DPS mode, I will put up my combat-permanent Anthem of War first and then Anthem of Prowess, as those are the two Anthems that give offensive buffs. Barring mobs that stun at extremely bad times, I can keep Anthem of Prowess up by hitting it every 15 to 18 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dedfyre View Post
    For running as support the difference between 3Y and 4Y is pretty huge. At 3Y you can maintain 2 anthems 100% with some wiggle room assuming you have maxed the legacy. 4Y is a jump to being able to fit in six.

    Seems like that might be a stronger choice in small fellowships or even regular fellowships where you don't really need the throughput of full blue traiting.

    Given we can't reduce tale power cost anymore, do the improved tales feel worth it on beta? If not, Assuming chord and RtS get power reductions to put them inline with BC now would that help to improve it's functionality?
    I agree that 4 Protector of Song and 3 Watcher of Resolve will be my default trait set for most groups. I can't really imagine having to trait 4 Watcher of Resolve except for the hardest of content, or possibly if I am healing a Continuous Blood Rage Champion.

    I haven't tested out the dual tales capstone on beta mostly for the reason that on paper, it just doesn't seem worth it. I will miss my Improved Tale of Warding for equipping 4-PoS traits, yes, but with stats uncapped and Tale of Heroism giving us more of our primary stat, and thus more outgoing healing (less than 2% more, sure, but still), I doubt the trade offs for using the capstone are worth it. ON THE OTHER HAND, the power costs for the dual tales have been reduced. Tale of Warding and Heroism only costs 3 power per second and Tale of Frost and Flame's Battle only costs 4 power per second... so it's not as bad as it was, even without the old Flow of Harmony.

    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    Can someone comment on the size of the Hammerhand bubble and what it costs to cast? I'm not sure if it is worth using, but need real numbers please.
    At level 75, the Song of the Hammerhand appears to give exactly 1,980 morale shield. The only variable is how much it will cost to cast. If your power pool is bigger, it will cost more to cast. It will ALWAYS cost 5% of your power pool to cast and, if the bubble has a full duration and expires naturally instead of falling off from being hit, it will give you back exactly as much power as it cost you to cast it.
    Narlinde, level 100 Minstrel, Rank 11, Member of Trucido ~ Windfola

  9. #109

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Can we get a sticky for this thread? It's an excellent guide and deserves one!

  10. #110

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudie-wan View Post
    At level 75, the Song of the Hammerhand appears to give exactly 1,980 morale shield
    So we get the shield value that was initially planned (~30% of Max Power), 2k bubble gone in a handful of seconds.
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  11. #111
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    3,025

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    As a note, the Minstrel Developer Diary has been released... y'all should go read that.

    We're getting new instruments! Orion talks about them here: http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdia...diary-?start=6

    Here is a screenshot of the level 60 version of the clarinet. I've been told that there is also a level 70 version, but I haven't located the level 70 ones yet. This is very, very shiny!

    Narlinde, level 100 Minstrel, Rank 11, Member of Trucido ~ Windfola

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Texas
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    3,892

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Why can't the options for the bonuses to the instruments be all the same? Not overly happy about running around in PvMP with a cowbell and with threat reduction.

    Think maybe like jewelry and weapons, crafters have the panel to customize which buffs on instruments to put depending on the interest of the minstrel.


  13. #113

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Wow, thanks so much for the awesome write up! Can't wait to get in there after launch and get the feel of how stuff is going to work now
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0620500000014ed59/01006/signature.png]Telestra[/charsig]
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  14. #114
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    Wandering Server: Laurelin
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    128

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudie-wan View Post
    As of the current build on Bullroarer, the skill icons for Minor Ballad and Perfect Ballad have changed. This is a welcome change, for me, because now they are much more distinctly different. The buff icon for the Melody of Battle has also changed. I've updated the guide with new screenshots!
    That's great! I noticed they looked the same in Harmony or War-speech, so I'm very happy with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudie-wan View Post
    The 2-equipped bonus for +5% and the 4-equipped bonus for +10% outgoing healing on the Watcher of Resolve line are base, passive modifiers. No matter what stance you are in, if you have 2 equipped WoR traits you will receive 5% outgoing healing and if you have 4 equipped you will get 15% outgoing healing. Part of the 3-equipped WoR bonus is +1% healing to each Major Ballad buff. Therefore, if you have 3-WoR traits equipped, no matter what stance you are in, and you put up 3 Major Ballad buffs on yourself, you will have an extra +3% outgoing healing. With 4-WoR equipped, that goes up to 9%.
    Omg, so so happy to hear that I was totally wrong! Thank you for clearing this up, it makes it lots better! \o/

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudie-wan View Post
    I agree that 4 Protector of Song and 3 Watcher of Resolve will be my default trait set for most groups. I can't really imagine having to trait 4 Watcher of Resolve except for the hardest of content, or possibly if I am healing a Continuous Blood Rage Champion.
    I was thinking in the same direction here, it seems to be a clear path unless you really, really need the heals.

    P.s. Love the instruments, although I'll need at least 2 or 3 just to heal now.....eeek, bagspaaace :'( <3
    Loves her puppies forever!
    My Puppielooks! White, Innocent, Cute, Brave, Perfect! *_*

  15. #115
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    South Dakota
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    2,884

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Familiarity View Post
    Why can't the options for the bonuses to the instruments be all the same? Not overly happy about running around in PvMP with a cowbell and with threat reduction.

    Think maybe like jewelry and weapons, crafters have the panel to customize which buffs on instruments to put depending on the interest of the minstrel.
    Best case scenario we'd have multi-output recipes for each "build", such as "main healer" or "dps" with appropriate stats. Then each output could be the instruments. Or, the other way around, of course -- multi-out instruments with different builds. I don't know what would be more efficient but it sure would make the class more customizable.
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  16. #116

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    TLDR!

    j/k nice thread

  17. #117
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    3,025

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    I did some more healing on the beta server today. Whew, if you're trying to keep up your buffs, it's a pretty different experience (for me, at least). I could BARELY get away with traiting 4y/3r. Eventually I just gave up on that and traited 4y/3b, which made it much easier.

    Also, our ability to kite while self-healing is AWESOME. Start in Melody, put up the Melody of Battle skill on yourself if you wish for more parry, then Major Ballad > Major Ballad > Major Ballad > Chord of Salvation > Soliloquy of Spirit > Anthems at your discretion > Anthem of the Third Age > Coda of Vigour > free inductionless Bolster Courage > Song of the Hammerhand if things get nasty > Improved Cry of the Valar for that HoT....

    Basically, as long as you have power and aren't getting repeatedly crit for massive amounts of damage or stunned, you can kite and heal yourself forever and a day. The power issue is easily solved by putting up Anthem of Composure before you hit Coda of Vigour, too. We have so many on-the-move heals now, several of which are AoE so we can even heal our groups while moving, too. Frankly, I felt like a rather squishy Captain while heal/kite tanking various adds and bosses in various instances.

    Oh, and here is another screenshot, this time of gear that may be relevant to our interests.

    Narlinde, level 100 Minstrel, Rank 11, Member of Trucido ~ Windfola

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    672

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Tingilinde View Post
    But anyway:
    - Song of the Hammerhand: 1980 morale for 30 seconds and it costs 306 power, if it expires it gives 5% power back.
    - Gift of the Hammerhand: 1697 for 10 seconds and it costs 188 power.
    I will miss the old Gift of Hammerhand. I've taken such a huge liking in using it to punish people who insist on sitting in puddles and not potting out removable dots. It was such a fantastic gift of love.

  19. #119

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudie-wan View Post
    Basically, as long as you have power and aren't getting repeatedly crit for massive amounts of damage or stunned, you can kite and heal yourself forever and a day.
    hehe, just from going off your guide with +100% power costs and Healing Crit Modifiers on gear I would think not having power to blast massive self heals on yourself and getting hit hard, which is what the healing crit modifier is for, will be all too common.

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Landroval
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    1,095

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by ZirasAminstrel View Post
    hehe, just from going off your guide with +100% power costs....
    ... has been significantly altered.

  21. #121

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Out of curiosity, what's the sound for the Minor/Major/Perfect Ballads like?

    Do they have some variables? (Like sometimes they'll play one musical ditty, sometimes another) or are they static?

    I kinda hope they're variable, but I'm guessing they won't be.

    Either way, I'm kinda excited about the new changes. I wonder what it'll be like to level up a Minstrel from level 1?

  22. #122

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudie-wan View Post
    At level 75, the Song of the Hammerhand appears to give exactly 1,980 morale shield. The only variable is how much it will cost to cast. If your power pool is bigger, it will cost more to cast. It will ALWAYS cost 5% of your power pool to cast and, if the bubble has a full duration and expires naturally instead of falling off from being hit, it will give you back exactly as much power as it cost you to cast it.
    Can the bubble be healed during its duration, or does all healing go to morale?
    Adaaon (Minstrel), Gwydionn (Hunter), Tarrann (Burglar)
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  23. #123
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    Mar 2007
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    Philly, PA
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    Can the bubble be healed during its duration, or does all healing go to morale?
    The bubble itself can not be replenished. Healing goes toward your morale. The new bubble is basically a get out of jail free skill. You pop it for emergencies if you get double crited or you need to heal right away. You hit the bubble and it buys you time to get a heal or two off. My experience with it shows that it lasts 2-3 hits from one enemy. If you have a group pounding on you, good luck. Feign might be the better choice in that situation.

    Sometimes I use it to get agro off me in skirmishes. Encounter bosses hit HARD so I pop bubble then song of soothing since the bubble prevents any induction setbacks. Having it on a 1 minute timer is pretty nice. I wish there was a legacy for cooldown on gift of the hammerhand. My protector needs it often. LOL
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  24. #124

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Crissaegrim View Post
    ... has been significantly altered.
    Just saw that today with the ballads + instruments

  25. #125
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sarasota, FL, USA
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    3,215

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Thanks Cloudie-wan. Well-done.
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