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  1. #26
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Can you post information on the healing skills too please? Looks like you left them out, or I missed them somehow.

    Did Inspire Fellowship get the proposed cooldown removal?


    Regarding the power issue some people are complaining about, since all codas, anthems, and ballads have very short cooldown, it looks like it's possible to get the power return buff up at all times. 800 net power restoration every 20s is pretty sweet, that's equiv to bonus 2400 ICPR, on top of the minstrel's base ICPR and food and whatever else.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gondolindhrim View Post
    If you want to use Call to Greatness to increase group DPS by as much as possible, then I think Burglar would still be the best choice. If the extra Fervour generation we get on live would still be there with RoI, it'd be a closer race... Orion, can we have that back, please?
    If you want to use CtG to increase group DPS, you use it on the captain, who can then cast War Cry and in turn improve everyone else's DPS for a full minute, lasting 45s beyond the duration of CtG itself.

    Pretty sure that is the best choice.
    Last edited by Tamiya; Aug 30 2011 at 03:27 AM.

  2. #27
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    +1 Cloudie, awesome visual summation of the overall changes.
    Landroval
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  3. #28
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    I am speechless.

    This is simply awesome. I can't give you all the +rep you have earned with this post. Hopefully my fellow minstrels will help me with this.

  4. #29
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    An outstanding post, thank you for taking so much trouble to test and create it.

    I'm still levelling and still gaining new skills so I can't add anything to the comments about losses or gain.

    The one thing that does come to mind is that it looks as if it will be even more necessary to visit the bard and rearrange traits, depending on what is required. Won't this also require much arranging of toolbars in order to have the related skills quickly to hand? I can see this as being time-consuming and ultimately irritating if we are doing this 2 or 3 times a day, depending on in-game activity.
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  5. #30

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Thanks for the comprehensive write up, great job. I like the idea of ballads not being temporary buffs. I found it aggravating in the extreme for one reason or another not being able to cast a spell and having to tier up to 3 again. Glad to see anthem of the wizards get some love, I previously considered it to be one of the worst legendary traits of any class.

  6. #31

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Hmm so does the Song of the Hammerhand tooltip actually indicate you get power pack no matter what? OR am i just misreading?

    Also. There is one way that song of the Hammerhand = Power restore. Turn it on right before starting combat. You will regen power, start fight... and then get power back.
    Once upon a time they called me Aed O'Brien of Coldeve
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  7. #32
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    AW: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Great Job, thank you very much + Rep :P

    I´ll gonna link it to the German Forum

    Can´t wait till 27 sept, wanna play my mini with this changes!
    They changes aren´t perfect at all, don´t like some traits, powercosts and the basic healing nerv, but still great and very interesting!
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  8. #33
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamiya View Post
    If you want to use CtG to increase group DPS, you use it on the captain, who can then cast War Cry and in turn improve everyone else's DPS for a full minute, lasting 45s beyond the duration of CtG itself.

    Pretty sure that is the best choice.
    You are correct, I was assuming War-cry would already be up. Should have clarified that, thanks for the catch.
    Fredecar - Burglar ~ Original Challenger of Saruman
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  9. #34
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    I was linked to this by a kin-mate who plays minstrel.

    I stopped playing mine at 63 but this write-up has me rather looking forward to the minstrel changes that I'm HUGELY tempted t bring her out of retirment.

    well deserved +rep to you.
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  10. #35
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    Thumbs up Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    A great thread and +rep to you

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudie-wan View Post
    Anthem of Compassion
    This Anthem is the other one that only buffs the Minstrel. When cast, it gives -40% to threat generation on all healing skills used while the buff is up. Also, the 4-equipped bonus to the Watcher of Resolve traitline directly modifies Anthem of Composure by making it combat-permanent until you use a Coda.
    Did you mean Compassion here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudie-wan View Post
    Improved Cry of the Valar
    This skill is so very, very beautiful. It brings a single perfect tear to my eye. Guys.
    I LOLed here and 100% agree.
    Last edited by Hekatherina; Aug 30 2011 at 02:28 PM.
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  11. #36
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Very nice work +rep for you.

    One question @ all Mini's,

    Do you know or someone else whether the ballads are always active even when playing several Anthems?

    for example:

    first i play 2 major and 1 minor ballade

    than play Anthem of Compassion after that Anthem of the Free Peoples or must we play again 3 ballads and then the Anthem of the Free Peoples?
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  12. #37
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Pashtick View Post
    Very nice work +rep for you.

    One question @ all Mini's,

    Do you know or someone else whether the ballads are always active even when playing several Anthems?

    for example:

    first i play 2 major and 1 minor ballade

    than play Anthem of Compassion after that Anthem of the Free Peoples or must we play again 3 ballads and then the Anthem of the Free Peoples?
    Always active in combat until you play a coda. Coda's are the "finisher's" now, anthem's are the 2nd tier of stuff.

    Ballads -> Anthems -> Coda

    is how it goes now instead of:

    Tier 1 Ballad -> Tier 2 Ballad -> Tier 3 Ballad -> Anthem
    Landroval
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  13. #38

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    excellent post... props to you for taking the time to help the community.
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  14. #39
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Cloudie-Wan - Thank You. This was PHENOMENAL. It explains everything that I was confused about...now I am really looking forward to RoI.

    Any comments on virtues in the new age of Minstrels and ROI?

    +rep to follow once I spread it around first...
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  15. #40

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    I'd just like to say, I'm in beta and those that like moors will COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE

    Coda Of Fury. We got on a reaver me and my mate each a 6K+ devestating.

    It's beautiful .... *tear*

  16. #41
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Thanks for the very nice thread! This is really helpful and getting us prepared for Isengard.
    Really looking forward to playing my minstrel after the update!
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  17. #42
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Gondolindhrim View Post
    I'd give my thoughts about the changes at length, but it's late, so for now I'll just answer the Champ question:

    Seeking Blade makes our next Remorseless Strike score a guaranteed critical hit. Much better than gaining a defeat response since we now only have one (and Song of Aid already does that anyway), but it's disappointing that they removed the extra Fervour generation we used to get... Champion is now the only class that just get an up-front buff from Call to Greatness and nothing more for the 15s duration of the skill.
    Ahh, ok. I shall edit the post to put in that information. Thanks for the heads-up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamiya View Post
    Can you post information on the healing skills too please? Looks like you left them out, or I missed them somehow.

    Did Inspire Fellowship get the proposed cooldown removal?

    Regarding the power issue some people are complaining about, since all codas, anthems, and ballads have very short cooldown, it looks like it's possible to get the power return buff up at all times. 800 net power restoration every 20s is pretty sweet, that's equiv to bonus 2400 ICPR, on top of the minstrel's base ICPR and food and whatever else.
    You're right, I completely forgot to post about our healing skills! Wow, I feel sill...

    OK, so, Chord of Salvation, when cast on someone, will also give a small HoT to the people around the recipient of the heal. This works in War-speech, too. When it is Chord of My Salvation, you can give yourself the nice heal and everyone else can get the little HoT, too.

    Bolster Courage and Raise the Spirit are the same, as is Soliloquy of Spirit. Fellowship's Heart had it's cooldown lowered. Triumphant Spirit seems to be the same, although it had it's cooldown lowered, too, and now with the legacy you can get the cooldown all the way down to 8 minutes.

    As for Inspire Fellows... well, I'm embarrassed to admit that I didn't notice if the cooldown on the skill was removed or not. I frankly looked at the power cost and didn't bother to use it when I was running instances on the test server. I'll check next time I get the opportunity to log in.

    You can, in fact, keep up your PoT restore 100% of the time, but you're going to be sacrificing a LOT to do that. If you Ballad up, use Anthem of Comosure, then use Coda for the power restore over and over again in between heals, you'll not be getting the full use out of your self-applied Ballad buffs for power reduction, outgoing healing, and tactical damage. Nor will you be able to buff yourself and you Fellowship members well with your Anthems. But yes, it pretty much IS a cure for our power woes. You just have to make a choice between power efficiency and optimal healing/buffing ability. I think that most Minstrels will learn to think ahead about using it. The buff that Anthem of Composure gives is pretty nice, so I think that it will be one of the ones we'll want to try to keep up. If we are anticipating that we'll be using a Coda anyway (for an extra heal, for example), then we can make sure that Anthem of Composure is up so we can get the power restore. I very much doubt that people will be using Ballads, Anthems, and Coda JUST for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merilda View Post
    The one thing that does come to mind is that it looks as if it will be even more necessary to visit the bard and rearrange traits, depending on what is required. Won't this also require much arranging of toolbars in order to have the related skills quickly to hand? I can see this as being time-consuming and ultimately irritating if we are doing this 2 or 3 times a day, depending on in-game activity.
    Personally, I already retrait for almost everything... and yes, I DO get testy when I'm asked to heal something less than an hour after I've gone and retraited for blowing up Creeps. I don't think we'll have to rearragne our toolbars much, though. Just memorize what everything does!

    I don't think I could play my class if quickslots 1 and 2 were not Herald's Hammer and Piercing Cry, respectively. Then I have Major Ballad, Minor Ballad, and Perfect Ballad for 3, 4, and 5 because you'll be hitting them a lot and that is where your fingers on your left hand rest easily. Next I have the six Anthems and the last quickslot on the homerow is Coda. I use the F keys to select my Fellowship members and click my heals, and I click almost all my non-homerow skills (like the Calls and Cries).

    Each Minstrel will have to rearrange their toolbars to their own liking, but I DEFINITELY recommend that you put your Ballads in a very accessible place and that you configure your Anthems in a set order and memorize them in your preferred configuration. I organized my Anthems like so: Two self-buffing Anthems first, right next to the Ballads, because they are similar to them (Anthem of the Third Age and Anthem of Compassion). Two defensive Anthems next, the healing one first because heals always come first (Anthem of the Free Peoples and Anthem of Prowess). The two offensive Anthems next, with the offensive Anthem that also provides defensive buffs first to put it near the other defensive Anthems (Anthem of Composure and Anthem of War). This also allows me to use my Anthems in sequence. When I am in PoS/Harmony, I put up Anthem of the Third Age - Harmony first, then Compassion, the Freeps, then Composure, then Prowess, then War, all in sequential order. If I am DPSing, I do it the opposite way, with War first (and usually just War and Prowess, although I'll use Composure for the PoT if I am about to use Coda of Fury).

    I think that it will be very important for Minstrels to develop a good buff rotation for themselves. I found that if I lost my place by forgetting what Anthem I had just hit and which one I was supposed to hit next that I got flustered and couldn't find my place again. I'm even considering installing the BuffBars add-on to help me keep track, but I'm wary of add-ons as a rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hekatherina View Post
    Well, actually, it has changed. It's been moved to the Healing&Motivation Skills (earlier it belonged to the Songs of Valar, if I remember correctly), so in RoI Fellowship's Heart will be modified by different +heal multipliers which is rather cool.

    Did you mean Compassion here?
    I thought Fellowship's Heart came under the effects of Healing & Motivation Skills in Enedwaith? I could be wrong, I'll check and update the guide.

    And yes, yes I did. Thanks for that, I'll fix the typo shortly!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pashtick View Post
    Do you know or someone else whether the ballads are always active even when playing several Anthems?
    As someone else answered, yes, we can keep playing Anthems as long as we don't close everything out with Coda. I know it's confusing because for 4 years Anthems have closed out everything, but now it is the Coda that does that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fruinjuice View Post
    Any comments on virtues in the new age of Minstrels and ROI?
    You'll be stacking Will like there is no tomorrow, but it'll be so easy to get that I really don't think we'll need to use the Wisdom virtue, as the Will it provides doesn't scale well. There are also some virtues that give ICPR now, which is nice, but they were very, very minimal. Make sure to level your Zeal up to 12 as it just became the new Valour!
    Last edited by Cloudie-wan; Aug 30 2011 at 04:34 PM.
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  18. #43
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    <3

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    [/COLOR][/FONT] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/firefoot/nasty/"][COLOR=SlateGray][FONT=Hurry Up]Minstrel[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL] [/SIZE][SIZE=3][COLOR=DarkRed]|[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=3] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/firefoot/evilblasty/"][FONT=Hurry Up][COLOR=SlateGray]Rune-keeper[/COLOR][/FONT][/URL] [/SIZE][SIZE=3][COLOR=DarkRed]|[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=3] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/firefoot/balbaroids/"][FONT=Hurry Up][COLOR=SlateGray]Champion[/COLOR][/FONT][/URL] [/SIZE][SIZE=3][COLOR=DarkRed]|[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=3] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/firefoot/nastier/"][FONT=Hurry Up][COLOR=SlateGray]Captain[/COLOR][/FONT][/URL] [/SIZE][SIZE=3][COLOR=DarkRed]|[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=3] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/firefoot/inuke/"][FONT=Hurry Up][COLOR=SlateGray]Hunter[/COLOR][/FONT][/URL][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][COLOR=DarkRed]|[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=3] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/firefoot/nastiest/"][FONT=Hurry Up][COLOR=SlateGray]Warden[/COLOR][/FONT][/URL][/SIZE][/CENTER]

  19. #44
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    AW: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Thanks a LOT for this posts! I've to learn to play my character nearly from zero, but let's see...
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  20. #45
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Not impressed at all. Your thread is obviously written in bias of the healing Minstrel.. I only hope that half of what you write is not true or changed before the update is actually implemented, especially your opinion of the dps role for Minstrels.I see nothing great or wonderful here.. looks like the Minstrel is being forced into a non viable role.. healing or dps. If this is the case, it will ruin the game for me.

  21. #46
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    AW: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Do you want a healing Hunter or Guardian! Why can't my Minstrel make more dps during the heals than my red-skilled Rune-keeper? Do you understand the purpose of a Minstrel? BTW: You can change to damage during the fight -> consequences? What is your main task in a group? I don't understand your post, please help me...
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  22. #47
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudie-wan View Post
    I thought Fellowship's Heart came under the effects of Healing & Motivation Skills in Enedwaith? I could be wrong, I'll check and update the guide.
    Yes, you are right. I looked it up and only then recollected that it had been changed with the Echoes of the Dead. Sorry
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  23. #48

    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudie-wan View Post

    it pretty much IS a cure for our power woes.
    Nice job on the guide.
    Last edited by ConstantiaChlorus; Dec 10 2011 at 12:37 AM.
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  24. #49
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Great post. +rep for you.

    Can't wait to play the class and reorder the toolbars the 1st day
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  25. #50
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    Re: Visual Guide To Minstrels in Rise of Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Norwrei View Post
    Not impressed at all. Your thread is obviously written in bias of the healing Minstrel.. I only hope that half of what you write is not true or changed before the update is actually implemented, especially your opinion of the dps role for Minstrels.I see nothing great or wonderful here.. looks like the Minstrel is being forced into a non viable role.. healing or dps. If this is the case, it will ruin the game for me.
    Are we viable for fulfilling the role of main-DPS in a group setting? Maybe. In a 3-man group, yes, definitely. Three-man instances, of necessity, must be balanced around limited roles and a Minstrel can absolutely be DPS in them. In a 6-man group we will never be sought after by people as DPS, but I think that we will be able to fulfill the role adequately. To fill that DPS slot in a Fellowship, you'll need to get your Will as high as possible, sacrificing defense for offense and you MUST trait 5-deep into Warrior-skald to do it. Protector of Song/Harmony is not really about fulfilling a main-DPS role, but rather an off-DPS role. Think of Warrior-skald as our "lightening-traited Rune-keeper" DPS line and Protector of Song as our "Captain-hybrid of Awesome buffs with a bit of healing and a bit of DPS thrown in" line. Built for Will, tactical offense, and tactical crit, with Legendary Items enhancing your DPS function and a high enough base ICPR to help with your power issues, you will be able to fill that DPS slot (but not as well as classes whose primary role is DPS, ie, not as well as Hunters, Champions, Rune-keepers, or Burglars). When you see your first dev crit with Coda of Fury, you'll feel like an RK, it's kinda awesome. In raids, I don't believe that we have either enough DPS OR enough power sustainability for us to fill the role of main-DPS in long fights.

    Quote Originally Posted by ConstantiaChlorus View Post
    Nice job on the guide.

    I can't agree with this statement. The coda has a cooldown. A minstrel will be able to use it two maybe 3 times a minute, making huge sacrifices of either healing or buffing to do so, as you said. the only thing that will make it look like, pretend to be a cure is that you'd have spent an entire minute not healing to do this. And since a Bolster and an Inspire cost 1100 unlegacied, the lack of healing, the lack of doing our job will certainly conserver power and the hot will make it come up, but it's entirely an illusion. Any minstrel can stand still for a minute and let their icpr bring things up.

    So, sure, stand still for a minute, for 3 coda runs. Don't heal, let your icpr give you back about 2000 power. Let 3 codas give you back another 2000. On the surface it looks like everything's fine. Except that we're not healing or doing very very little.

    But if anything like Ivar tier two challenge is in game, who gets to stand around and ballad ballad balld anthem coda for a whole minute? In Ivar a minute might as well be an hour.

    Maybe they have plans to switch off all the room aoes in game. Maybe they plan to drop the damage down. I hope. Then it wouldn't really matter. I'd be fine with that.

    but really, if the class is reduced to spending a minute rotation to med up my power supply I might as well go play EQ1 and go sit under a tree for 20 minutes to get my power back.

    So I'm working to get my loremaster ready to replace my minstrel. Someone that's been a minstrel since 2007 getting ready to box up shop over the ability to have enough power to heal. Sad. I worry enough about the price of fuel in real life. I refuse to worry about it in a game.
    I think that we just haven't seen everything in terms of itemization and balance yet to be so worried about power management. When running School and Library at level 75 on beta, I got some very nice purple gear rewards out of the chests that updated my jewellry beyond simple quested stuff. The crafted gear is rather nice, too. We don't know what shiny drops will come out of the new raid OR if there are nice things from the scaled-up Annuminas and Great Barrows instances. Someone also told me that the scaled up to level 75 Helegrod raids all have extremely nice drops, too, which will help with our power issues. The thing about beta is that you have to take what you're seeing there and realize that you don't quite have everything yet, while trusting that the game developers really do want to keep their jobs and retain their paying customer base by keeping them happy.

    I'm sure that the devs have noted the concern that everyone here has, including myself.

    Also, when healing even the most difficult fights in the game with substantial group damage, there is ALWAYS time to tier up in between heals. Major Ballad > Heal > Major Ballad > Heal > Major Ballad > Heal > Anthem of Composure > Heal > Coda of Vigour (which is also a heal) > Heal... also, if you have the legacy for +Anthem Duration, even if you are not traited deep into Protector of Song, you could likely get up two Anthems before hitting Coda of Vigour, thus giving yourself or your Fellowship some extra buffs. I really don't think we'll be standing around waiting for our power to regen or our skills to come off cooldown.
    Narlinde, level 100 Minstrel, Rank 11, Member of Trucido ~ Windfola

 

 
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