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  1. #76
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    Re: New warden info?

    This is kinda a rehash of what I posted in a guard thread this morning that was referencing wardens. Some things were changed:

    If you haven't noticed I edited some of my posts that had screen shots. I did this after there was some notes about the NDA in the beta forums regarding what was ok to post. I'm trying to get clarification on whether or not screen shots are OK. Considering what I've seen from that awesome guard post with all the screens and the amazing mini update guide I'm not sure. I edited out most of my posts that quoted any thing I thought was may be crossing a line. I like playing around in beta Reading back on it, they might have just been referring to any quotes from beta forum or patch notes. Once I get an OK to post screens I'll do my best to get you guys any info I can. Thank you 3 day weekend.

    So last night I got the full 75 moors armor set on my warden, also got two 75 rings that looked decent and a new moors cloak. I was sitting at 39.3 mitigation, which 15.7 from medium armor cap. I was using all of the physical mitigation virtues at 12.

    I also built a level 75 third age Javelin and Sword. Leveled them all the way up and maxed all of a wardens avoidance buffs and used all the tier 7 tanking relics. The remarkable ones with b/p/e, partials - they are buffed copies of the 65 extraordinary ones. I went out and took on screen shot and the client crashed...that was the end of my evening. So unfortunately I don't have exact figures for you but somewhere in the 40%-50% range is probably where I was sitting for avoidance without any buffs. That was also traiting 7 deep into the shield line (probably over kill with the new LIs).

    I know for sure that I can cap block with a little work and self buffs. I was able to hit 12,300 block last night, which was well over the cap. I've capped block around 10,900, I think in a previous beta build. Let me reiterate, that was only block --- parry and evade are a long long long ways from that. Please don't read this as wardens can cap b/p/e easily. All I'm saying is that when I'm building for avoidances I can cap BLOCK with significant attention being paid to self buffs. Which means 4 gambits (15 keystrokes 20 or so seconds to build), of which only one has a threat component besides some minor dps and only lasts momentarily without refreshing. Well that is for building all of the b/p/e buffs, but I hope you get what I'm trying to say.

    I am hoping that I can get you guys some screenshots this weekend. Some areas I want hit testing are:
    b/p/e (for science)
    stat affects for wardens
    bleed behavior
    mitigations
    hots
    threat manipulation/stacking

    I'm also going to actually do some tanking...woot. If there is anything else major you'd like tested let me know. I'll try my best. Also, if screenshots are OK - please don't expect or anticipate anything as thorough as the mini thread. You'll only be disappointed, it is pretty awesome.

  2. #77

    Re: New warden info?

    Can you please tell us what your physical mitigation is on BR please?

  3. #78
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    Re: New warden info?

    One other thing to note, when building with all defensive relics and the gear I could get ahold of. I'm under 2k power, and around 1k ICPR in Conservation. So putting all my eggs in the defensive basket might not be optimal. I'm just trying to push the avoidance envelope instead of a well rounded build.

    I ran around at 65 with 2k power and 1000 ICPR for a long time, so its not completely foreign to me.

  4. #79
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    Re: New warden info?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterion View Post
    I'm also going to actually do some tanking...woot. If there is anything else major you'd like tested let me know. I'll try my best. Also, if screenshots are OK - please don't expect or anticipate anything as thorough as the mini thread. You'll only be disappointed, it is pretty awesome.
    Thank you for your efforts, much appreciated.
    Any chance you could see if there are new Carvings available?

  5. #80
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    Re: New warden info?

    HoTs:

    Persevere: 264-402 (main-hand) damage
    Heals 88 morale initially
    and 88 morale every 3 seconds for 18 seconds
    14 power

    Safeguard: 150 common damage
    Heals 136 Morale initially
    and 136 every 3 seconds for 18 seconds
    88 power

    Celebration of skill: 264-402 main-hand damage
    Heals 156 morale initially and heals 156 morale ever 3 seconds for 18 seconds
    52 power

    Conviction: Heals 169 Morale initially and 169 morale every 3 seconds for 18 seconds
    124 power 25 meter range

    Shield traited - 3.3% outgoing healing 16% incoming healing


    Stats:
    Might:
    10x might -> melee offense rating
    10x might -> ranged offense rating
    2x might -> Physical mitigation
    4x might -> block rating
    2x might -> parry rating

    Agility:
    1.5x agi -> critical rating
    2x agi -> parry
    4x agi -> evade

    Vitality:
    5x vit -> morale
    2x vit -> physical mit
    4x vit -> tact mit
    2x vit -> resistance rating
    965 vit -> 6947 NCMR

    Will:
    Adds to power, tact offense rating, outgoing healing, resistance rating ncpr
    130 -> 390 power, 520 tac off, 520 ohr, 260 res, 1560 ncpr

    Fate:
    Adds to critical rating, icmr, and icpr more than (ratio not easy to spot)
    155 fate -> 271 crit rating, 232 icmr, 373 icpr

    Carvings:
    New carvings for tier 7. Level 70 requirement. Same setup, +light damage, +physical mitigation, +tactical mitigation - and 10% power savings for fist/shield/spear. Multioutput recipes (not single use) - doesn't look like it requires a crit item (working on proficiency now)

    EDIT: Finally got a crit shield item 1278 physical mt vs old 55 shield carving with 918 - Couldn't find any new hymns.
    Also, by no crit item i meant like Mithril flake. It does have a +35% crit chance item - birch tar.
    Last edited by Mysterion; Sep 02 2011 at 04:02 PM. Reason: added not single use

  6. #81
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    Re: New warden info?

    Heh. not a one shot. Sad to see the same +light damage.
    Nerves, of the Brandywine.

  7. #82

    Re: New warden info?

    I assume those are base numbers without the + healing legacies?
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  8. #83
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    Re: New warden info?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolfast View Post
    I assume those are base numbers without the + healing legacies?
    I do not have any of the + healing legacies on my LIs.

  9. #84
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    Re: New warden info?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterion View Post
    EDIT: Finally got a crit shield item 1278 physical mt vs old 55 shield carving with 918 - Couldn't find any new hymns.
    Also, by no crit item i meant like Mithril flake. It does have a +35% crit chance item - birch tar.
    o.O

    The old ones had 500 Melee Mit. Now we have 918 on the old ones, and +300 more for the new ones? Yowzah. Very good to see, makes that gap between the WRD and the GRD a bit less daunting. And that's after all the *other* mitigation numbers got busted down a notch or three.
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  10. #85
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    Re: New warden info?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterion View Post
    I also built a level 75 third age Javelin and Sword. Leveled them all the way up and maxed all of a wardens avoidance buffs and used all the tier 7 tanking relics. The remarkable ones with b/p/e, partials - they are buffed copies of the 65 extraordinary ones.

    That was also traiting 7 deep into the shield line (probably over kill with the new LIs).

    Let me reiterate, that was only block --- parry and evade are a long long long ways from that. Please don't read this as wardens can cap b/p/e easily. All I'm saying is that when I'm building for avoidances I can cap BLOCK with significant attention being paid to self buffs. Which means 4 gambits (15 keystrokes 20 or so seconds to build), of which only one has a threat component besides some minor dps and only lasts momentarily without refreshing. Well that is for building all of the b/p/e buffs, but I hope you get what I'm trying to say.
    One other thing to note, when building with all defensive relics and the gear I could get ahold of. I'm under 2k power, and around 1k ICPR in Conservation. So putting all my eggs in the defensive basket might not be optimal. I'm just trying to push the avoidance envelope instead of a well rounded build.

    I ran around at 65 with 2k power and 1000 ICPR for a long time, so its not completely foreign to me.
    Thanks for explaining how you got to those insanely high Block/p/e ratings.
    As most Wardens are normally trying to stay at 1500-17xx icpr in Conservation, not using any of the Block relics (need Picpr/morale in that slot) and most also got 2500+ power even at 65, it looks like you really need to sacrifice almost anything just to get to those b/p/e. Also traiting 7 blue is a waste of good traits from other traitlines =/

    So it's kinda possible to hit at least ridiculously high Block ratings, but most probably too much of a sacrifice (I'd rather go with 1000 more power, 700(!) more ICPR and use some aggroskills instead of just mashing defensive gambits leading to lose aggro) if someone wants to hit that road.
    Nice that it's possible in theory, but I guess that's a case like the 100% partial block mitigation Guard : fun nichè.


    Also thanks on updating the numbers for the healing gambits.
    Looks like they did scale to a certain amount, but not that well.
    Question: What's the 4-bonus fpr the blue line on BR right now ? You last screen still showed "the old bonus" of +10% Hot-healing, but Orion mentioned ditching that and replacing it with +2 Heal pulses.


    Will:
    Adds to power, tact offense rating, outgoing healing, resistance rating ncpr
    130 -> 390 power, 520 tac off, 520 ohr, 260 res, 1560 ncpr
    Aww, too bad.
    When Cappies got Might to determine their outgoing healing rating and Burgs AGI for Meleeoffense I was kinda hoping that we'd either get might too, to determin out outgoing healing or at least get 10point per point of will =/
    (would have been a strong addition to choose from IMHO - more Will for better heals or more vit/agi/might for ore morale/acoidances/damage ? Oh well, there goes Easy-mode-lotro, just stack vit and might again...)

  11. #86
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    Re: New warden info?

    Quote Originally Posted by Minyacairwen View Post
    Thanks for explaining how you got to those insanely high Block/p/e ratings.
    As most Wardens are normally trying to stay at 1500-17xx icpr in Conservation, not using any of the Block relics (need Picpr/morale in that slot) and most also got 2500+ power even at 65, it looks like you really need to sacrifice almost anything just to get to those b/p/e. Also traiting 7 blue is a waste of good traits from other traitlines =/

    So it's kinda possible to hit at least ridiculously high Block ratings, but most probably too much of a sacrifice (I'd rather go with 1000 more power, 700(!) more ICPR and use some aggroskills instead of just mashing defensive gambits leading to lose aggro) if someone wants to hit that road.
    Nice that it's possible in theory, but I guess that's a case like the 100% partial block mitigation Guard : fun nichè.


    Also thanks on updating the numbers for the healing gambits.
    Looks like they did scale to a certain amount, but not that well.
    Question: What's the 4-bonus fpr the blue line on BR right now ? You last screen still showed "the old bonus" of +10% Hot-healing, but Orion mentioned ditching that and replacing it with +2 Heal pulses.



    Aww, too bad.
    When Cappies got Might to determine their outgoing healing rating and Burgs AGI for Meleeoffense I was kinda hoping that we'd either get might too, to determin out outgoing healing or at least get 10point per point of will =/
    (would have been a strong addition to choose from IMHO - more Will for better heals or more vit/agi/might for ore morale/acoidances/damage ? Oh well, there goes Easy-mode-lotro, just stack vit and might again...)
    I could still hit the high block traited 5 blue. Have a screen shot of over 14k when I was testing evade earlier...I think I still had some cappy buffs up or something weird. I'm going to make another set of LIs with the t6 relics I'm using in my high icpr/morale sticks now. I'm really sacrificing a lot of morale/icpr on the relics...but I'm imagining myself building for high avoidance after the update.

  12. #87
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    Re: New warden info?

    Wasn't trying to argue it won't be viable - your post just put some posts I read over the last few weeks stating that "Wardens can easily max avoidances" in perspective.
    It might be possible, but if it's worthwhile... I guess that's what every warden will have to determine for himself when RoI hits the servers.
    Choosing between Higher avoidances, higher Powerpool, higher ICPR, more Healing gambits, (perhaps even more Inc. Healing, thats what you need certain relic spots/gear slots for, too) ... sounds for me like it won't be easy to max avoidances while still retaining capped IncHeal, necessary ICPR etc. like some posts made it sound like.
    Too bad, no easy mode tanking with RoI :P

  13. #88
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    Re: New warden info?

    Quote Originally Posted by Minyacairwen View Post
    Wasn't trying to argue it won't be viable - your post just put some posts I read over the last few weeks stating that "Wardens can easily max avoidances" in perspective.
    It might be possible, but if it's worthwhile... I guess that's what every warden will have to determine for himself when RoI hits the servers.
    Choosing between Higher avoidances, higher Powerpool, higher ICPR, more Healing gambits, (perhaps even more Inc. Healing, thats what you need certain relic spots/gear slots for, too) ... sounds for me like it won't be easy to max avoidances while still retaining capped IncHeal, necessary ICPR etc. like some posts made it sound like.
    Too bad, no easy mode tanking with RoI :P
    No worries, I was just clarifying that we wouldn't have to have 7 deep in shield and still cap block. I'm certainly looking forward to some different builds than the 5-1-1, and didn't want anyone to think that 7 shield was the best way to build b/p/e.

  14. #89
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    Re: New warden info?

    Again, just my beta experiences - and are all subject to change.

    So played around a little tonight and was still able to stick 4 bleeds on mobs (3 from gambits - and apparently my sword or jav was putting a bleed on). I'm not sure how it was intended but they seem to be working like they always did in the past.

    Mitigation
    Against level 75 enemies:
    --Reduces incoming physical damage by 40.4% (9559 rating)
    Common Mitigation -- Points 14,031
    --Reduces the damage taken from common attacks by 49.9%

    Tactical Mitigation
    Against level 75 enemies:
    --Reduces incoming tactical damage by 32.3%
    Fire Mitigation 6481
    --Reduces the damage taken from fire attacks by 32.3%
    ....and so on for Lightning, Frost, Acid and Shadow

    Now that I'm a little better geared I can get Evade and Parry right at 20% (8354 evade and 8222 parry) with block over 12k so at 25% - by running through the defensive gambits. My morale, ICPR, power, agi, and incoming healing are all less than my 65 warden. My current stats are 967 might, 535 agi, 905 vit, 130 will, 155 fate. There is definately some room for improvement with gear, and I understand that this first round of gear isn't the be all end all. Edit: Or that I have great gear right now, just kinda what I could find from GV, AH, and people on at the time.

    So Dark Before Dawn and potency - I almost killed myself a couple times. Pretty fun to knock out two of them and then build up hots to save your skin though.

    Screenshots Just kind of a bunch of them I grabbed with various bits of info. You can see them better if you select view full resolution.

  15. #90

    Re: New warden info?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterion View Post
    Again, just my beta experiences - and are all subject to change.

    Now that I'm a little better geared I can get Evade and Parry right at 20% (8354 evade and 8222 parry) with block over 12k so at 25% - by running through the defensive gambits.
    Even better when you add in the partials, all your partial mits are > 55% and your common mit is 49%. This means on any common damage partials you will not take any damage.
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  16. #91

    Re: New warden info?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterion View Post
    words...

    Screenshots Just kind of a bunch of them I grabbed with various bits of info. You can see them better if you select view full resolution.
    Thanks for all the good posts and SSs lately, you've been a big help!
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  17. #92

    Re: New warden info?

    Quote Originally Posted by duamarth View Post
    Thanks for all the good posts and SSs lately, you've been a big help!
    Dito. This information certainly sets my mind at ease in regards to mitigations.

  18. #93

    Re: New warden info?

    Definitely appreciate all the pictures/information.

    Looks like HoTs will bump up 15% with the extra 10 levels.

    Only thing missing now is raid level incoming damage.
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  19. #94
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    Re: New warden info?

    Quote Originally Posted by horus418 View Post
    Ditto. This information certainly sets my mind at ease in regards to mitigations.
    Tripllo

    Just remembered though, have you had any time to look at the changes to spear ? It's supposed to make less threat now I believe ? Is spear tanking still viable ? Did 1-3 and 1-3-1 loose the added threat ? Did DPS change (up with less threat) ? Curious minds want to know
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  20. #95

    Re: New warden info?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterion View Post
    Again, just my beta experiences - and are all subject to change.

    So played around a little tonight and was still able to stick 4 bleeds on mobs (3 from gambits - and apparently my sword or jav was putting a bleed on). I'm not sure how it was intended but they seem to be working like they always did in the past.

    ...
    Did you notice "bonus damage" from applying bleeds on top of bleeds? Someone (maybe even you) had mentioned that they are not going to be removed for bonus damage anymore, but that they will still inflict bonus damage if other bleeds are present.
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  21. #96
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    Re: New warden info?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleez View Post
    Tripllo

    Just remembered though, have you had any time to look at the changes to spear ? It's supposed to make less threat now I believe ? Is spear tanking still viable ? Did 1-3 and 1-3-1 loose the added threat ? Did DPS change (up with less threat) ? Curious minds want to know
    I have never really been a dps / spear tanking warden. So I probably wouldn't be able to tell a difference from live to beta. 1-3 and 1-3-1 tooltips still say slightly increased threat. I'm not sure how much I'll be able to work on testing this. If I can round up enough people to run some instances I'll probably run 5-2 (shield/fist).

    DPS is something that the devs seem to be playing close attention to though.

  22. #97
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    Re: New warden info?

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...76#post5659876

    I built a guard like my warden if anyone wanted to compare numbers.

  23. #98
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    Re: New warden info?

    So wait WHAT? On the guardian in block stance you have 22,3% block? Thats without using ANY skill, so with guardians ward its 26%?

    So it takes them 1 skill with easy upkeep to get more block then a warden who uses Defensive Strike, Shield Mastery and Shield Bash - Block?

    Then they also have more tactical mitigation to begin with and the same ONE bloody skill (guardian's ward) gives them tactical mitigation aswell.. But for the warden its another gambit to spam in order to keep it.

    It seems to me we are losing in the physical and tactical mitigation department and we have to use 4 buffs (3 with high upkeep) to get to about the same lvl of avoidances. We take more damage and we take it more often.
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  24. #99
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    Re: New warden info?

    Quote Originally Posted by AltariasEU View Post
    So wait WHAT? On the guardian in block stance you have 22,3% block? Thats without using ANY skill, so with guardians ward its 26%?

    So it takes them 1 skill with easy upkeep to get more block then a warden who uses Defensive Strike, Shield Mastery and Shield Bash - Block?

    Then they also have more tactical mitigation to begin with and the same ONE bloody skill (guardian's ward) gives them tactical mitigation aswell.. But for the warden its another gambit to spam in order to keep it.

    It seems to me we are losing in the physical and tactical mitigation department and we have to use 4 buffs (3 with high upkeep) to get to about the same lvl of avoidances. We take more damage and we take it more often.
    With guardians ward

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...50#post5660550

  25. #100

    Re: New warden info?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolfast View Post
    Even better when you add in the partials, all your partial mits are > 55% and your common mit is 49%. This means on any common damage partials you will not take any damage.
    I'm curious, is that really how it works? And if so, is it the same way for tactical damage? So if I had 55% partial mit and 45% tactical mit I'd take no damage? If that's true, then Wardens are effectively receiving an extra 20% bpe if they use appropriate relics.

 

 
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