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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Disappointed with first LI

    This weekend, at L51 I decided that it was about time to get my LIs, which I had been delaying, having fun in Angmar and Goblin Town, so I started Vol 2 Book 1, and this is what I got (just reforged at L10):



    I can't see the point of this weapon. No static will, no fate, no vitality, no power, no morale, no tactical crit, no static nothing! Only the legacies: a couple of nice one for solo dps, but nothing useful for healing.

    The melee dps I really don't mind because I only want the weapon for its extras. In my Minstrel, I seldom use the weapon for a healing attack or the "slow target movement/attack" of the mace/club, but never, for dps.

    Besides, after the first reforge, I get two options: reduce cooldown in a skill with wich I never had a cooldown problem and improve healing with a skill that I will get at say L60?... I got the second one, but I hope not to get with this to L60. I will have to go back to my standard weapon at least when grouping.

    Is it normal for the first LI not to have any "standard" bonuses (will, fate, power...)?
    Any recommendations on how to proceed regarding this weapon?

    Thank's a lot!
    Óscar

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    235

    Re: Disappointed with first LI

    Welcome to life after you get an LI. Disappointment, after disappointment, met with grind grind grind grind GRIND for those scrolls of empowerment.

    Also. If you get other weapons to level 31, and THEN decon them, you can get a legacy out of it, which you can then in turn put on your current LI.

    Cooldowns are kind of just helpful, to kill things faster.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Re: Disappointed with first LI

    Quote Originally Posted by avaaescaner View Post
    I can't see the point of this weapon.
    Then get another one, you are not expected nor should you keep your first LI for very long. In fact anything up until a lvl 65 Second age (first age if you raid) is just like any other piece of inventory, better then the last piece but in the end disposable.

    If you haven't read the guide I recommend you give it a good look especially at the available legacies.

    Quote Originally Posted by avaaescaner View Post
    Is it normal for the first LI not to have any "standard" bonuses (will, fate, power...)?
    Yes and no. All 2 handed weapons will have passive bonuses like stats, power/morale and regen to compensate for single handed weapons ability to use off hand items. On all items however you can add stats etc through the various relics, runes and settings to customise your weapons to do exactly what you want them to. (ie increase vit over will or crit rating or outgoing healing over dmg rating etc. or visa versa). Also you are able to change (with the use of a scroll) any legacy for a stat legacy if you so wish.

    Quote Originally Posted by avaaescaner View Post
    Any recommendations on how to proceed regarding this weapon?
    I have no experience with minstrel weapons or legacies, but I would continue using it until you get your next LI. if nothing else you will get some of the experience back when you de-construct it.

    One other thing, if you're doing dmg increase tactical dmg rating, it's basically equivalent to dps.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    aht by da zoo
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    Re: Disappointed with first LI

    Find yourself some relics. You can buy them from the legendary trader in a skirmish camp, or get an infused garnet and take it to Dolven View for a daily quest. Those relics will give the "static" bonuses you're looking for.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2921e0000002f30db/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Laurelin
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    Re: Disappointed with first LI

    Quote Originally Posted by avaaescaner View Post
    This weekend, at L51 I decided that it was about time to get my LIs, which I had been delaying, having fun in Angmar and Goblin Town, so I started Vol 2 Book 1, and this is what I got (just reforged at L10):

    I can't see the point of this weapon. No static will, no fate, no vitality, no power, no morale, no tactical crit, no static nothing! Only the legacies: a couple of nice one for solo dps, but nothing useful for healing.

    The melee dps I really don't mind because I only want the weapon for its extras. In my Minstrel, I seldom use the weapon for a healing attack or the "slow target movement/attack" of the mace/club, but never, for dps.

    Is it normal for the first LI not to have any "standard" bonuses (will, fate, power...)?
    Any recommendations on how to proceed regarding this weapon?
    What legendary minstrels get is the following:
    -A weapon that has fixed dmg like before (melee classes can rank this up, you start higher on your LI weapon but dont advance)
    -A tactical damage rating (TDR) that you rank up: the rating give your damage skills a bonus to the dmg done, and until around level 55 the TDR returns bad boost for the points spent compared to dps legacies 8imo, not worth developing)
    -Legacies that enhance the efficency or cooldown on 1 or more skills you have (som at level 60 yes).
    -Relic slots that lets you add stats to the weapon: on your starter weapon you get to choose a setting that adds like uhm 15 will and around 500 to all offence ratings, for example. Good stuff. Of course higher tier relics will be better etc. Those you will have to grind for.

    For your soloing, your current weapon has 2 DPS legacies I see. Minstrels get I would say less dps legacies than some other classes so you will have to get a bit of luck to get them.
    Your best dps legacies are actually minor legacies (you can only get them on the lvl 10-30 reforges):
    Tier1 ballad dmg bonus and Tier2 ballad dmg bonus (both go to +30%)
    I see you got piercing cry dmg bonus, and call to orome, those are actually your only 2 dps enhancing major legacies on weapons(when you id a LI, you get 3 legacies: all will be major. upon reforge, you mostly get offered minor legs, but sometimes (like you did) get another major.) So I really cant agree you got unlucky with that, but you need alot of luck to get exactly both the 2 legacies I mentioned.
    As other posters mentioned, you will swap legendary items often. They are truly disposable until you reach levelcap.
    If you level one to level 30+, you can extract a legacy when you deconstruct them (dispose of).

    How to get desired legacies on your items: Level up your items to level 30+, and deconstruct. You will get the option to extract one legacy to a scroll that you can apply to another item of same type (weapon or book).
    This scroll has a targetlevel that is based on the level of the source item:
    51-59 can work on 51-60 items
    60-64 can work on 51-65 items
    65 can work on 51-70 items

    So for your dps (and other) needs you can work up additional weapons as you level and extract the legacies that suit you and put on other items. In fact, you should alwyas use 6 LI when you have some - the exp on each item is reduced by number of items you level, but they get a level bonus. on 6 items, each item get 36% of shown ixp value gained, which means you get 216% effective ixp from one kill or quest. Mind you that the legacy start on tier 2 (is expensive to rank up) when you do so, so its always best to do this on a level you will keep and not apply it before it hits level 30 (ie, after you see all the legacies you have gotten on it). Subsequent reforges at 40,50 and 60 (70 with the scroll to raise itemlevel) raise the tier of 1 of 2 randomly picked legacies that arent tier 6.

  6. #6

    Re: Disappointed with first LI

    One handed legendary weapons do not get the stat buffs you have seen on non-legendary one-handed weapons. This isn't just for your starter LI weapon, it will be the same for every LI weapon you can use from now on. Those stat buffs are only available on two-handed legendary weapons. This is the same for almost every class in the game (except Rune Keepers, RK rocks are always two-handed weapons as far as stat buffs are concerned).

    On the other hand, every legendary weapon (and legendary class item) starts with four empty slots on it where you can attach "relics" which do have stat buffs. If you want more will, attach relics that give you more will, if you want more morale, attach relics that give you more morale, etc. In this way you can customise which stat buffs your legendary weapon has.
    Therina - Hobbit Guard Rongo - Hobbit Warden
    Frood - Man Minstrel Garmun - Man Captain
    Zorosi - Dwarf Champ Froodaroon - Elf Hunter
    Southern Defenders - Arkenstone (formerly Elendilmir)

  7. #7

    Re: Disappointed with first LI

    Quote Originally Posted by avaaescaner View Post
    I can't see the point of this weapon. No static will, no fate, no vitality, no power, no morale, no tactical crit, no static nothing! Only the legacies: a couple of nice one for solo dps, but nothing useful for healing.
    It is your choice what stat bonuses the legendary item provides. There are four slots for relics. You plug in the relics that give the bonuses that you want out the multitude of possibilities.

    2-handed legendary items will have random stat bonuses to cover the lack of an off hand weapon with stats. The built in random bonuses generally are no where near the benefit that a class like a Champion gets via dual wielding.

    Enjoy your first two legendary items, since they are quest items - they use a different table to generate the first three legacies than all other legendary items. You will never see another Minstrel legendary weapon with all those nice gold (high tier) legacies. In order to get the tiers that high, you will have to tier them up one tier at a time with scrolls of empowerment. People do not bother with this activity until they are level capped. Gotten items they plan to keep for a long time.
    Last edited by Yula_the_Mighty; Aug 22 2011 at 12:22 PM.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  8. #8
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    Re: Disappointed with first LI

    The TDR on Legendary item alone makes it worth slotting. Get a few relics and you're in business.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000019caef/signature.png]Nerves[/charsig]

  9. #9
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    Jun 2011
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    Re: Disappointed with first LI

    Quote Originally Posted by geoboy View Post
    The TDR on Legendary item alone makes it worth slotting. Get a few relics and you're in business.
    Depends on the usefulness of your other legacies. On lvl 51-55 items you arent getting bang for your buck compared to what you can get as dps booster legacies. Top rating is +3 TDR on a level 51 item, for 230 points (making said item level 22) This is a huge investment for very small gain. Once you get to 55 the rating goes up 1 each time you invest in it so its rational to start spending there. Exception: you have a weapon intended for dps that has no dps legacies. dump it into your TDR by all means, and go looking for a better weapon.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Barcelona, Spain
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    184

    Re: Disappointed with first LI

    Thank's a lot for the replies, guys. Specially to Morbeleg for the great insight into the Minstrel's LIs. You all have helped me a lot.

    I saw the guide that Korgain recommends a few days ago, but the world of LI is quite hard to understand at the beginning. It makes more sense now.

    I compared my mace with my friend's RK LI, which had lots of static passive bonuses, and this is the reason why I though that my LI was bad. And sure I like the Piercing Cry and Call of Oromë bonuses, they are great for dps. The reforge alternative to Soliloquy of Spirit was reduced cooldown in Cure Fear... this was a minor legacy, I see.

    TDR starts at +0.5 and I need 14 points for an additional +0.3, getting even lower next tiers. I agree with Morbeleg: not really worth it.

    I didn't want to put more relics in the weapon in case it was total thrash. Now that you have changed my mind, I added, besides the 15 will/500 offence rating, the 84 ICPR/448 evade and also crafted a +10 fate symbol from the tailor guild. The gem slot is still empty, the quest didn't gime anyone.



    After completing V2 Book 1, got my "first" songbook and identified another L51 songbook that I previously had from a drop in Carn Dûm. They look like pretty similar. I like specially the L51, but the strange thing is that the cost to level up the very same legacy is different in each LI... eg: Healing and motivation (9 vs 7), Ballad of flame (12 vs 7). I would love to have the Bolster Courage boost legacy too.
    Anyway, I will probably wait for the first reforge and see the new legacies before spending non crafted relics in the books.

    Should I expect anything different from them, one being a L51 drop?

    Book from V2B1:




    L51 Songbook from a drop:




    Thank you again
    Óscar

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Australia
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    406

    Re: Disappointed with first LI

    Quote Originally Posted by avaaescaner View Post
    I like specially the L51, but the strange thing is that the cost to level up the very same legacy is different in each LI... eg: Healing and motivation (9 vs 7), Ballad of flame (12 vs 7). I would love to have the Bolster Courage boost legacy too.
    basically each legacy will have a tier from 1-6. the higher the tier, the cheaper it is for each upgrade.

  12. #12

    Re: Disappointed with first LI

    A legacy is a buff to one of your skills. Some legacies buff multiple skills, but most legacies only buff one specific skill.

    Your two books both have the Healing and Motivation legacy and the Ballad of Flame legacy. Healing and Motivation buffs all your healing skills, so all your heals will be bigger. This is a legacy that buffs multiple skills. Ballad of Flame is a legacy that only buffs one specific skill, the skill "Ballad of Flame". The Ballad of Flame legacy makes the Ballad of Flame skill do more damage but it does not make any other ballad do more damage.

    Legacies have ranks, which is how much of a buff they give you. If you look at both of those legacies in both of your legendary books, they are at rank 1 and give a buff of 1%. As you put legacy points into the legacies, the size of the buff will increase, your heals will become more powerful and your Ballad of Flame will do more damage.

    Legacies also have "tiers". The tiers do not affect the size of the buff, they affect how many legacy points you need to use to rank up the legacy. A high tier for a legacy makes it cheaper to rank up, you need less points to get it to a higher rank. A low tier makes a legacy more expensive to rank up, you need more legacy points to get it to a higher rank.

    Look at Ballad of Flame in the two books. One of the books shows it needs 12 legacy points to go to the next rank. The other book shows it needs 7 legacy points to go to the next rank. The book in LI slot 2 has a higher tier for Ballad of Flame (it is tier 3), the book in LI slot 3 has a lower tier for Ballad of Flame (it is tier 1). You cannot use legacy points to change the tier of a legacy, you can only use legacy points to change the rank of a legacy. It is possible to change the tier of a legacy, there are two ways to do it.

    First way, when an LI is above level 30, a reforge will NOT add a new legacy to the LI , the reforge will choose two legacies already on the LI and let you pick one of the two legacies. That legacy will have it's tier increased by one level. A legacy with tier 3 can become tier 4 as an example. That legacy will be cheaper to rank up with legacy points because it's tier has increased. You cannot undo a tier change, it's a permanent change. Once you've changed the tier of a legacy you can't go back and redo it, so take a little time to think about which legacy you want to change the tier on.

    The other way to change the tier of the legacy is with a "Scroll of Empowerment". You can barter skirmish marks for these scrolls at any skirmish camp. There are two versions of these scrolls, a "Lesser Scroll of Empowerment" which only works on LI's for characters level 60 or lower, and the full "Scroll of Empowerment" which works on all LI's for characters up to level 65, but it's more expensive than the Lesser Scroll so it's not cost effective to use the higher version of the scroll on LI's for characters below level 61. These scrolls can be used on LI's at any time, you do not need to wait for a reforge, and the scrolls can be used even after an LI has had all it's reforges used up.

    There is one restriction on changing the tier of a legacy that applies to both reforges and scrolls of empowerment. You cannot raise the tier of a legacy higher than tier 6. That is a hard cap built into the game. The rank of a tier can go up to rank 9 (not all legacies can get to rank 9, some legacies have a lower rank cap) and all legacies have their tier capped at tier 6, you cannot get a legacy to tier 7, that game will not allow you to do that.

    Ranks increase the size of the buff the legacy gives you. You use your legacy points to increase the rank.
    Tiers control how many legacy points you need to increase the rank, high teirs make legacies cheaper to rank up. legacy points cannot be used to change the tier of a legacy.

    The LI system is not intended to give you enough legacy points to get every legacy on an LI to rank 9, you will need to decide which legacies are the most important to you and which ones are not so important, and use your legacy points accordingly.
    Therina - Hobbit Guard Rongo - Hobbit Warden
    Frood - Man Minstrel Garmun - Man Captain
    Zorosi - Dwarf Champ Froodaroon - Elf Hunter
    Southern Defenders - Arkenstone (formerly Elendilmir)

  13. #13

    Re: Disappointed with first LI

    The book from the quest is oriented more for dps, while the book from CD id'd with more healing legacies (2 healing, 1 dps). Chances are that you'll be doing more dps in the next couple levels than group healing, but which one you slot is up to you and you can change them out as needed - note that the quest reward legendaries only gain ixp when slotted on your character, the other legendaries don't have this restriction.

    Generally speaking, the initial legendaries from the quest often have good legacies, tho I'm a bit lukewarm on your weapon, but that really isn't a big issue for the low level legendaries.

    But those are just your starter legendaries, as you've already seen you will run across drops in other areas and you can barter for legendaries that start at level 53 in Dolven View and 21st Hall. You'll be changing your legendaries fairly frequently, and last time I leveled I found it difficult to keep my legendaries near to my level and have enough points to make them useful, at least in the low to mid 50s.

    One thing to keep in mind as you near level cap, many classes, minstrels included, keep separate legendaries for different roles - I have a dps weapon and a healing weapon. It's the legacies on those that accentuate the role I want to play at that time. It certainly isn't a requirement to do so though, sometimes it just depends on the legendary lottery if you can find one that identifies strongly towards dps or healing.

  14. #14

    Re: Disappointed with first LI

    Quote Originally Posted by GarethB View Post
    Ballad of Flame is a legacy that only buffs one specific skill, the skill "Ballad of Flame". The Ballad of Flame legacy makes the Ballad of Flame skill do more damage but it does not make any other ballad do more damage.
    Small correction to a very informative entry, Ballad of Flame itself doesn't do any damage as a Tier 3 ballad, but it does buff tactical damage done by you and other people in your group, so it is nice for you to have to increase your own numbers. Other T3 ballad legacies will buff melee and ranged - they aren't very important to you personally, but they're great when you're grouped with others - melee can get up to a 20% damage buff and ranged up to 10% (I think).

    The Tier 1 and Tier 2 ballad legacies do directly impact the damage done by your T1 and T2 ballads.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Barcelona, Spain
    Posts
    184

    Re: Disappointed with first LI

    OK, that is what Yula_the_Mighty meant in his message, I dind't understand him.

    As Narnesse suggests, I will level both books by now, one for dps and the other for healing and see what happens with the next legacies.
    BTW, I cannot level the mace without equipping it (and cannot stop leveling it when equipped), but I would say that the quest songbook does not have these limitations. I will try it this evening.

    One last thing: when you deconstruct an experience level 31 LI and get the legacy scroll, which tier is it when applied? Doest it keep the tier that it had in the deconstructed LI or resets to 1?

    Thank you!
    Óscar

  16. #16

    Re: Disappointed with first LI

    Quote Originally Posted by avaaescaner View Post

    One last thing: when you deconstruct an experience level 31 LI and get the legacy scroll, which tier is it when applied? Doest it keep the tier that it had in the deconstructed LI or resets to 1?

    Thank you!
    Óscar
    When you apply a legacy scroll onto an LI, the legacy from the scroll will be tier 2 on the new LI. The tier of the legacy when it was extracted from the old LI does not matter, the legacy will always be at tier 2 on the new LI when you use a legacy scroll. Also, the legacy scrolls work by asking you to pick one legacy that is already on the LI and replacing that legacy with the legacy on the scroll. The scroll does not give your LI an extra legacy, it replaces one legacy already on the LI with the legacy on the scroll.
    Therina - Hobbit Guard Rongo - Hobbit Warden
    Frood - Man Minstrel Garmun - Man Captain
    Zorosi - Dwarf Champ Froodaroon - Elf Hunter
    Southern Defenders - Arkenstone (formerly Elendilmir)

  17. #17

    Cool Re: Disappointed with first LI - HERE IS THE FIX.

    Quote Originally Posted by keikii View Post
    Welcome to life after you get an LI. Disappointment, after disappointment, met with grind grind grind grind GRIND for those scrolls of empowerment.

    Also. If you get other weapons to level 31, and THEN decon them, you can get a legacy out of it, which you can then in turn put on your current LI.

    Cooldowns are kind of just helpful, to kill things faster.
    Actually, you can do three things to add Stats boosts to LI stats:

    1) Get some relics to give stat boosts - the Gem and the Settings that give you nice boosts. I currently have a Tier 3 Gem for a +18 Might and a +16 setting for Might. At level 53 Guardian, I pushing almost 600 might. The Runes help with defenses and such, but get these too by deconstructing stuff you find (initially in Moria).

    2) Go to the LOTRO shop and BUY some legacies that gives stats boosts. Then buy some of the Tier upgrades. You can get massive stats boosts (which YOU select) into the weapon or character class item slot! I have a Guardian's Belt with +17 Might (x2) and +17 Will and that is very easy to max out IF you go to LOTRO store and boost the Tier level so they cost fewer Legacy points to level up.

    3) Craft some relics for the LI's 4th slot. You need to be at Kindred level with your Guild of choice or have someone else craft the Relic for you (that is that elusive 4th slot). I personally like the Metalsmith's guild's Crown for a +10 Might.

    So you can be like me and pick like 1 or 2 good class boosts for legendary weapon and class item and the rest buy the stat boosts from the LOTRO store.

    Have fun!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    334

    Re: Disappointed with first LI

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian117 View Post
    Actually, you can do three things to add Stats boosts to LI stats:

    1) Get some relics to give stat boosts - the Gem and the Settings that give you nice boosts. I currently have a Tier 3 Gem for a +18 Might and a +16 setting for Might. At level 53 Guardian, I pushing almost 600 might. The Runes help with defenses and such, but get these too by deconstructing stuff you find (initially in Moria).

    2) Go to the LOTRO shop and BUY some legacies that gives stats boosts. Then buy some of the Tier upgrades. You can get massive stats boosts (which YOU select) into the weapon or character class item slot! I have a Guardian's Belt with +17 Might (x2) and +17 Will and that is very easy to max out IF you go to LOTRO store and boost the Tier level so they cost fewer Legacy points to level up.

    3) Craft some relics for the LI's 4th slot. You need to be at Kindred level with your Guild of choice or have someone else craft the Relic for you (that is that elusive 4th slot). I personally like the Metalsmith's guild's Crown for a +10 Might.

    So you can be like me and pick like 1 or 2 good class boosts for legendary weapon and class item and the rest buy the stat boosts from the LOTRO store.

    Have fun!
    Constructive criticism: /Size make you shout the whole post imo. Maybe only use that on something you consider vital?
    Valid points raised but horrible to read.

    Addendum. The point about LI isnt really the stats(passive) but that they mold your characters skills into something better. Stats are nice, sure, but what legacies do to your toon is more powerful. I would never recommend to anyone to replace legacies with stat legacy unless they have a rather useless legacy or has so expensive other legacies that raising another legacy up high is cost prohibite; then a stat scroll can be employed to fill up with something useful even at low rank.
    Last edited by Morbeleg; Sep 13 2011 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Figured I could add something beside criticism

  19. #19

    Re: Disappointed with first LI - HERE IS THE FIX.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morbeleg View Post
    Constructive criticism: /Size make you shout the whole post imo. Maybe only use that on something you consider vital?
    Valid points raised but horrible to read.
    Agree, shifts focus from the important stuff.
    Yilk, Zorb, Cin, Zoy

 

 

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