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Thread: Heart Seeker

  1. #1
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    Heart Seeker

    Hello everyone. I just started playing again recently after a few months off.

    I heard that they nerfed HS significantly and it just wasn't worth it to use anymore.

    If I do ever use it it's the when the mob is stunned.
    I also love barbed arrow so the trait where HS absorbs the bleed is a nice bonus.

    Maybe they could make it more useful.
    It doesn't have to be more damage but adding 2 focus/ needing less power would help.

    I'm about lvl 61 now and was wondering if you almighty hunters still use it after the nerf.

    So is there a time/place to use it? Or is it still to weak?
    Last edited by Dunskap; Jul 24 2011 at 07:50 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Re: Heart Seeker

    The only people who cried about it being nerfed were the nub moors hunters who liked to try and 1 shot people. I think it's better now with the shorter induction and cooldown. The damage isn't that bad either, especially if you have the legacy.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Heart Seeker

    I absolutely love the dichotomy that's developed around Heart Seeker. She's the line in the sand that divides the BNS Sharks from the DPS Jets. Not only that, but she just switched sides.
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  4. #4

    Re: Heart Seeker

    I still use it, although it's possible that's mostly from feeling sentimental about it.

    I like the shorter cooldown, at any rate!
    Milaerra Cardhra of Lorien (Hunter) Pew pew pew!
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  5. #5

    Re : Re: Heart Seeker

    Quote Originally Posted by CWood View Post
    I absolutely love the dichotomy that's developed around Heart Seeker. She's the line in the sand that divides the BNS Sharks from the DPS Jets. Not only that, but she just switched sides.

    /signed

    And yes HS is still useful. You just need to use it at the right moments.

  6. #6
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    Re: Heart Seeker

    Heart seeker can be useful, but it's especially useful if you have a cool burn setup and a bow with both heart seeker damage and burn hot damage. At that point, in cool burn, you usually get hits between 3-5k and sometimes, with a bit help, can reach above 8k, and that's not including the extra 1k you usually get from the barbed arrow bleed removal. However, if you use blue traited setup for fast shooting, you may have your heartseeker off CD more often, but then it will only do around 1400 non critted. It's still nice to use as the induction will be lowered to 2.1 second in Imp. Fleetness.
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  7. #7

    Re: Heart Seeker

    HS really isn't as worthwhile (more nerfed feeling, I guess) if you're traited Huntsman, but Bowmaster is where it can really do large damage. It's got an even lower CD, and that plus Cool Burn (HS every minute + BH every 2 minutes = dead whatever's on the business end of your arrows, really) makes it really nice to have in your rotation. With the HS and BH legacies and some buffs/food, you can do massive damage with it (I've done ~6k+ with only BH and the legendary traits - which weren't maxed at the time - no other buffs in play).

    So, honestly, not really as nerfed as people feel. Might have noitced it at first, but once you get used to the feel of it again and adjust accordingly, it's just as good as it was before.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Heart Seeker

    Yes, Heartseeker is more useful in Bowmaster - but other than moors and possibly questing Bowmaster is useless. I end up booting a lot of hunters from raids who do not know how to use IFS or have the right set up for it or even recently someone not having all their blue traits. For Raid bosses IFS is more damage less power cost and less threat generated.
    And unless your using an old LI where you can have more than 6 legacies(should be using a first age anyway but...) Heartseeker damage is not worthwhile.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonide View Post
    /signed

    And yes HS is still useful. You just need to use it at the right moments.
    what are you signing?
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  9. #9

    Re : Re: Heart Seeker

    Quote Originally Posted by mager555 View Post
    Yes, Heartseeker is more useful in Bowmaster - but other than moors and possibly questing Bowmaster is useless. I end up booting a lot of hunters from raids who do not know how to use IFS or have the right set up for it or even recently someone not having all their blue traits. For Raid bosses IFS is more damage less power cost and less threat generated.
    And unless your using an old LI where you can have more than 6 legacies(should be using a first age anyway but...) Heartseeker damage is not worthwhile.



    what are you signing?
    Just approving big time.
    And I don't agree with your position about bowmaster. Bowmaster is still the burst DPS line and is the way to go for the Watcher, the trees and maybe Ivar.

    I think everyone agrees that IFS will outdps it in medium-long fights and offers more flexibility. But thats not a reason to kick ppl from raids. You can just explain them.

  10. #10
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    Re: Re : Re: Heart Seeker

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonide View Post
    Just approving big time.
    And I don't agree with your position about bowmaster. Bowmaster is still the burst DPS line and is the way to go for the Watcher, the trees and maybe Ivar.

    I think everyone agrees that IFS will outdps it in medium-long fights and offers more flexibility. But thats not a reason to kick ppl from raids. You can just explain them.
    Never really considered it for watcher just cause it is rather easy now at lvl 65 and just went with whatever i had traited. Trees yes i do agree. Ivar...eh not sure about but will defintly give it a try now though.

    Of crouse i always attempt to explain but when they dont have IFS trait or are traiting Heart of Bard and refuse to switch or once they switch i realize they do not know how to use IFS correcly and the dps is serisously lacking - they gotta go.
    Last edited by mager555; Jul 25 2011 at 02:14 PM.
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  11. #11

    Re: Heart Seeker

    Quote Originally Posted by mager555 View Post
    For Raid bosses IFS is more damage less power cost and less threat generated.
    Any Bowmaster traited hunter worth his salt is not going to have too much threat and pull aggro unless he means to (and I've never seen anything wrong with "stance dancing" occasionally - it means you can adapt to any situation).

    Honestly, I just installed the CombatAnalysis plugin the other day - traited Bowmaster + Cool Burn and went out to Enedwaith and took on a couple level 65 humanoids, then went and traited Huntsman + Improved Fleetness and put myself up against the same mobs. For just a little more DPS, damage was pretty badly gimped. I traited back to my normal spec (Bowmaster + Cool Burn) and ran it just one more time with Needful Haste and had nearly the same DPS as the Huntsman spec, but higher damage. Granted I only run with the Hele gloves (and will be ditching them for OD as soon as I'm able), but I highly doubt a full Hele set would grant that much more damage output to make up for the loss.

    Back on topic: I still don't think there's anything wrong with Heart Seeker and think it's an excellent skill to have in your rotation, especially in boss fights.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Heart Seeker

    Quote Originally Posted by xxforcardassia View Post
    Any Bowmaster traited hunter worth his salt is not going to have too much threat and pull aggro unless he means to (and I've never seen anything wrong with "stance dancing" occasionally - it means you can adapt to any situation).

    Honestly, I just installed the CombatAnalysis plugin the other day - traited Bowmaster + Cool Burn and went out to Enedwaith and took on a couple level 65 humanoids, then went and traited Huntsman + Improved Fleetness and put myself up against the same mobs. For just a little more DPS, damage was pretty badly gimped. I traited back to my normal spec (Bowmaster + Cool Burn) and ran it just one more time with Needful Haste and had nearly the same DPS as the Huntsman spec, but higher damage. Granted I only run with the Hele gloves (and will be ditching them for OD as soon as I'm able), but I highly doubt a full Hele set would grant that much more damage output to make up for the loss.
    Damage is irrevlavant compared to dps in for instance anything that has 100k+morale. Yes Helegrod set damage boost with full set is WAY mroe than BG and slightly better than OD. I would not bother getting OD set, use your medallions for another alt or scrolls.
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  13. #13

    Re: Heart Seeker

    Quote Originally Posted by mager555 View Post
    Damage is irrevlavant compared to dps in for instance anything that has 100k+morale. Yes Helegrod set damage boost with full set is WAY mroe than BG and slightly better than OD. I would not bother getting OD set, use your medallions for another alt or scrolls.
    Individually (gloves vs gloves), OD is better than Hele from everything I've been looking at. And if you actually read what I said, it's that the Hele set damage ISN'T enough of a damage boost to possibly match a Bowmaster hunter.

    And damage does matter. The longer it takes you to kill something, the worse off your group can be. As has been said before, it doesn't matter how quickly you can fire something (IE SB) off, it means nothing if you're taking a dirt nap.
    Lieutenant Sersi Niflhel · Retired
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  14. #14

    Re: Heart Seeker

    Quote Originally Posted by xxforcardassia View Post
    And if you actually read what I said, it's that the Hele set damage ISN'T enough of a damage boost to possibly match a Bowmaster hunter.
    No I'm pretty sure he read what you said, and I'm pretty sure he concluded you aren't well informed on the issue. It's probably because you can't see the 133t stats that Hele gives you. It's more nuanced. If you can't recognize how having your two best skills available 33-100% more often on your own, I would encourage you to read any number of the threads on this forum that debate the issue in a much more deliberative manner. Even most of the hardcore Bowmaster / Strength Hunters acknowledge they gain DPS using Hele at the expense of survivability. If you were making a survivability argument you would have more credibility.
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  15. #15

    Re: Heart Seeker

    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    No I'm pretty sure he read what you said, and I'm pretty sure he concluded you aren't well informed on the issue.
    Guess we read it differently, then, 'cause I didn't catch it as reading my point correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    Even most of the hardcore Bowmaster / Strength Hunters acknowledge they gain DPS using Hele at the expense of survivability. If you were making a survivability argument you would have more credibility.
    As a refresher:
    Quote Originally Posted by xxforcardassia View Post
    And damage does matter. The longer it takes you to kill something, the worse off your group can be. As has been said before, it doesn't matter how quickly you can fire something (IE SB) off, it means nothing if you're taking a dirt nap.
    Lieutenant Sersi Niflhel · Retired
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  16. #16
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    Re: Heart Seeker

    I've yet to use IFS...I also don't raid either because I can never find a group.

    but if you go around kicking hunters out of your group because they don't use IFS when you tell them to, you're going to get on a lot of people's ignore lists...

    also, to your comment about first age weapons...if you want us all to have them, why don't you start running the quest that drops the symbol and giving it away to hunters. Dunno about you, but we don't all have the money available that is required to buy those...so I hope you're not also kicking people out of groups for not having 1st ages as well.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Heart Seeker

    Quote Originally Posted by xxforcardassia View Post
    And damage does matter. The longer it takes you to kill something, the worse off your group can be. As has been said before, it doesn't matter how quickly you can fire something (IE SB) off, it means nothing if you're taking a dirt nap.
    It has been stated that IFS does more damage thaan Bowmaster in lengthier fights. This is not arguable as it has been parsed and tested.
    Yes the longer it takes you to kill something the worst off your group will be, thats why Helegrod set is th best for hunters, because it provides the most dps, and in your terms of logic is therefore the best for the group.
    Think old relic usage. Did burg go for offence rating or -attack duration? -attack duration because they could hit faster and that put out more dps, even if there actualy hits were not as large. That is what we have now for hunters. IFS hits faster and does more dps even if the hits are not as large.

    Quote Originally Posted by Archriker View Post
    I've yet to use IFS...I also don't raid either because I can never find a group.

    but if you go around kicking hunters out of your group because they don't use IFS when you tell them to, you're going to get on a lot of people's ignore lists...

    also, to your comment about first age weapons...if you want us all to have them, why don't you start running the quest that drops the symbol and giving it away to hunters. Dunno about you, but we don't all have the money available that is required to buy those...so I hope you're not also kicking people out of groups for not having 1st ages as well.
    If you have someone offering you 110g for an item and someone offering you 90g for an item. Are you going to take the 90g jsut because he says he doesn't have enough to win the bid? No. If i get ten tells from hunters im going to take the msot geared one that knows the raid and knows his class. I play a hunter and I am in raiding groups, I understand what to use in what situations. If i have a hunter offering to take my reccomendation and one that is not, im going to take the one that is because he/she is going to benefit teh raid most.
    FA bows are nice, not required if im recruiting for a raid, but again if someone has one and someoen does not, guess which one im inviting? In my opinoin, 12man raids are not the time to learn the class. Nothing in OD does a hunter need except possibly an Offhand(gorgronn/bangrist/saethil) so i don't expect and undergeared hunter complaining he stays undeergeared because he never gets into OD raids.
    Last edited by mager555; Jul 25 2011 at 04:32 PM.
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  18. #18

    Re : Re: Heart Seeker

    Two things:

    First, I cant understant why hunters still argue about the DPS of CB v. IFS. It's been parsed by many good hunters. IFS will ALWAYS outdps CB in fights over 1.30-2m maximum. Lets not talk about longer fights like most of OD. CB has (2) purposes currently 1) Burst DPS situations (Hunters are the 1st burst DPS class because of CB+NH) 2) Range-tank (threat generation increase). Watcher used to be a must for that. Now, I agree, it can be done smoothly without CB. The trees is of course the heaven of CB because both situations applies. Ivar for the last phase, can use CB.
    The only problem is that IFS demands more skills, reflexes, knowledge of focus mechanics. It's just easy to go CB and randomly pew pew. You can't do that with IFS.

    Secondly, OD v. Hele. Lets just put something down quickly: I have full helegrod and 3 pieces OD t2. I've parsed both. Heres my conclusions: Hele still the best pure DPS set.

    But: poor stats (compared to OD), less sustainability (compared to OD), less suvirvability (compared to OD). IMHO, the DPS gap is tiny (OD is around 96-97% DPSwise) compared to the other bonuses. I currently run with 3 od t2, 2 od t1 and the legs from StH. Hele is always with me, just in case, because Hele is STILL great. I fully understand hunters sticking with Hele.

  19. #19
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    Re: Re : Re: Heart Seeker

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonide View Post
    But: poor stats (compared to OD), less sustainability (compared to OD), less suvirvability (compared to OD). IMHO, the DPS gap is tiny (OD is around 96-97% DPSwise) compared to the other bonuses. I currently run with 3 od t2, 2 od t1 and the legs from StH. Hele is always with me, just in case, because Hele is STILL great. I fully understand hunters sticking with Hele.
    Isn't BG better survivability than OD? Stat-Wise i have not compared BG and OD though.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Heart Seeker

    Odd to see on the Hunter forum, and even stranger that nobody picked up on it... Damage =/= DPS.

    DPS means Damage per Second. If you do 1000 damage once every 10 seconds you are doing less DPS than someone that does 250 damage every 2 seconds. The longer the fight, the larger the gap in DPS between these two people becomes.

    Old HS had high base damage (~1500) but low DPS.

    New HS has lower base damage (~1200, still high) but significantly higher DPS because it has a drastically reduced cooldown, even without traiting for it, and a shorter induction time.

    In a five minute fight with old HS you would get one shot at a HS crit, now you get five chances... and you're still doing more damage even if you don't land a single crit (1200 x 5 = 6000 base damage over 5 minutes).

    Heartseeker wasn't nerfed at all, it was drastically improved.
    Last edited by Herukhuti; Jul 25 2011 at 07:33 PM.
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  21. #21
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    Re: Heart Seeker

    Higher dps is what matters, not damage. Only in situations that call for burst damage would I trait CB, everything else (unless I need to CC) gets either a 4/3 build or IFS. Range tanking can be done effectively in any build but trapper. With a solid rotation, IFS + precision stance can generate a surprising amount of threat. The only drawback to IFS is the power consumption, especially if combined with the Hele set.
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  22. #22
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    Re: Heart Seeker

    I had a dev crit on HS on ivar in OD for 7k+ traited IFS in S:P so it still does decent damage once in a blue moon. its great opening attack because it marks the target with a big X that everyone can see! The heart seeker legacy helps restore some of the damage that was removed from the skill... hopefull when RoI came out HS will scale up in damage when we get to lvl 75 unlike with SoA --> MoM

    Also I've tanked the trees in OD in S:E traited IFS purely by accident from a reset i forgot to switch back to S:P

    the 5 set armor bonus from OD is win... those who say Helegrod is better... most likely dont have or will never get around to completing the OD set so they just keep on about how good helegrod set is. Helegrod set is nice and its easy to aquire, I use it on 2 of my hunters, only because i dont have time to get the full OD set on them all. but my main use OD set and i wouldn't consider using the Helegrod set over the OD set.

  23. #23
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    Re: Heart Seeker

    Quote Originally Posted by xxforcardassia View Post
    Honestly, I just installed the CombatAnalysis plugin the other day - traited Bowmaster + Cool Burn and went out to Enedwaith and took on a couple level 65 humanoids, then went and traited Huntsman + Improved Fleetness and put myself up against the same mobs. For just a little more DPS, damage was pretty badly gimped. I traited back to my normal spec (Bowmaster + Cool Burn) and ran it just one more time with Needful Haste and had nearly the same DPS as the Huntsman spec, but higher damage. Granted I only run with the Hele gloves (and will be ditching them for OD as soon as I'm able), but I highly doubt a full Hele set would grant that much more damage output to make up for the loss.
    If you want to do somewhat proper testing kill a 20k giant in enedwaith... the ranged ones. Killing a 4,5k humanoid is highly unreliable. Full Helegrod does make a considerable difference and with 5b/2r + Imp Fl. it shines even more!

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonide View Post
    The only problem is that IFS demands more skills, reflexes, knowledge of focus mechanics. It's just easy to go CB and randomly pew pew. You can't do that with IFS.
    QFT!! I'm convinced that those hunters that say their bowmaster setup is better and claim they have tried huntsman + IFS and didn't like it say that because they didn't know how to use it. With the -20% bow inductions from 4b + IFS + NH your skill rotation is more important than anything else. The trick is to always think 1 skill ahead so as soon as you fire one skill you should know which skill you fire after that and you have to know that you have the focus to fire it. Once you get in the flow... your DPS will be crazy!
    ---

    I have always tanked the watcher tentacles in precision and have done the Disease wing in OD even yesterday in precision as well and kept aggro even in the time we could not attack the trees. With Imp Fl. and NH you are shooting so fast that I even pop a HS. Only time I use it is when I have all the attack speed buffs.
    Last edited by Ixinix; Jul 26 2011 at 02:29 AM.

  24. #24

    Re : Re: Heart Seeker

    Quote Originally Posted by Ixinix View Post
    I have always tanked the watcher tentacles in precision and have done the Disease wing in OD even yesterday in precision as well and kept aggro even in the time we could not attack the trees. With Imp Fl. and NH you are shooting so fast that I even pop a HS. Only time I use it is when I have all the attack speed buffs.
    Of course. With a 1st age and disciplined kinnies, I tank the tentacles in S:P/IFS now because I'm too lazy to trait.
    But, it is easier to keep aggro and with BH in a 2m CD, you can just use it when the tentacle spawns and aggros the healer and voila.

    For the trees, you can also do it with ISB/S:P. But, the DPS phase on the trees is really built for BH/NH combo. I've tried both and CB wins it. But, like I said, this is totally doable either way with decent skills.

 

 

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