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Thread: Scholar Nodes

  1. #1
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    Scholar Nodes

    Could you please add more scholar nodes for the levels below supreme. I know there are some, but when there are multiple scholars trying to level their skill...there just aren't enough nodes to go around.

    If scholar nodes were like wood branches and ore deposits and were available pretty much everywhere, the frequency of them wouldn't be an issue, but since they are only available in select areas (ruins), they need to be more plentiful in those areas.
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  2. #2
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    Don't think so. Scholars have, besides their nodes, also human enemies, wildlife plants, farming and ore nodes as sources for their materials. No other profession has such a variety.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    i agree. even if they were only increased by 10 or 20 percent that would make a huge difference.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhouri View Post
    Don't think so. Scholars have, besides their nodes, also human enemies, wildlife plants, farming and ore nodes as sources for their materials. No other profession has such a variety.
    Ore/wood processors also have chests as a source. And historians cannot mine ore so you cannot count ore nodes as a source for them.

    I've leveled up at least one of every vocation, and scholar mats are by far the hardest to obtain. Not great when you are the only one farming an area, horrible if you are competing with one or more others.

    If you do not believe me, go visit the AH. You will see that, on average, scholar materials go for far more than ore and wood. This is due to the lack of materials available.

    I honestly do not understand your opposition to this. Would an increase in node spawns be harming the game in any way? No.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    I agree with this. I can spend a half hour gathering for any other craft skill, and get at LEAST four times as much as I would gathering scholar nodes. There should either be more nodes, or maybe more craft materials should drop from the nodes.

  6. #6

    Re: Scholar Nodes

    couldnt agree more, schollar is the hardest professions to collect resources for, well untill you hit supreeme then once you hit moria and beyond its about on par with all the other professions

    yes schollar mats drop from other mobs but then again so does ore and gems, but the mats that do drop are the most common and the stuff you actualy need hardly ever dropps in loot
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  7. #7
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    Scholar mats drop much more than ore or gems from monsters. Scholar mats also spawn much more densely than ore or wood, where they do spawn, and you never have to go hunting for it since its always the same places. Of course, that means that they're easier to camp, too.

    Scholar mats are also the only ones that any player can collect in large quantities, since they drop off monsters for everyone, not just historians. Check the AH.

    I dont believe anyone who says Scholar is the hardest to level. Try leveling a Jeweller when you cant find a vein of noble metals because they've all been cherrypicked. I get the feeling that people only go to the scholar nodes that are within 500 m. of a swift travel stables, and then complain that they're overcamped and scholar is too hard to level. Or try to level by grinding out offense/defense scrolls, instead of the more resource-efficient potions and oils.

    Why not just hit Sarnur and kill some Dourhands for a while? I think they drop T5 Scholar mats, IIRC, and you can work on your Sarnur deeds and TH rep (for Moria goat) while you're at it, too. What other vocation gets to earn XP, TP, money, faction and deeds while you're collecting mats?

  8. #8
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    Quote Originally Posted by lostinjapan2 View Post
    Ore/wood processors also have chests as a source. And historians cannot mine ore so you cannot count ore nodes as a source for them.

    I've leveled up at least one of every vocation, and scholar mats are by far the hardest to obtain. Not great when you are the only one farming an area, horrible if you are competing with one or more others.
    Chests can also contain scholar mats, that argument is moot. And what happens with all the dye ingredients prospectors get from ores? They certainly don't vanish into oblivion.

    I have an SM Scholar. She's level 20 and leveled her craft only with the materials my tinker found during her travels. The only time I bought something at the AH was when she had to get access to the superior study and I gifted the necessary materials to another player 10 minutes before I knew I would need them. It was about 500 silver I had to spend.
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  9. #9
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    Quote Originally Posted by lostinjapan2 View Post
    If scholar nodes were like wood branches and ore deposits and were available pretty much everywhere, the frequency of them wouldn't be an issue, but since they are only available in select areas (ruins), they need to be more plentiful in those areas.
    Unlike wood and ore nodes, however, scholar items are often included in the spoils recovered from mob corpses. Instead of performing a 'sell all' every time you visit the merchants, be sure to save crafting items. Those that are not used by your characters can be sold on the AH. (I personally have craftsmen of every sort so I save everything! )
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  10. #10
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhouri View Post
    Don't think so. Scholars have, besides their nodes, also human enemies, wildlife plants, farming and ore nodes as sources for their materials. No other profession has such a variety.
    Historians, like every other profession in the game, have three skills. Scholar nodes and humanoid mobs drop Scholar materials. Plants on the landscape can provide dyestuffs (some of them).

    Historians are also Farmers. We can grow crops. But because we aren't Cooks, the only crop we can grow that is useful to us personally is Shire Sweet-leaf, which is used in our one Revive skill, Back from the Brink. And I'm told that the need for Sweet-leaf is going away with RoI. So the only use Farming is for a Scholar is the occasional (very rare) dye-plant that drops from a farming recipe. All the other stuff we can grow, we can sell back to the NPC or trade to someone else who is a Cook (who might be one of our own alts).

    Historians are also Weaponsmiths. But we cannot mine ore nodes. We have to depend on somebody else (who, again, could be one of our own alts) to mine ore and process it into ingots with which we can craft swords 'n' things.

    This was according to Turbine's original design, supposed to make us dependent on other players, encourage joining kinships and making friends, et cetera. How well it has worked, who knows.

    Getting back to the OP's remark, low-tier (1 and 2) Scholar mats have become very rare. Adso's Camp used to have a couple of periodically respawning Tier 1 nodes. Not any more. (I think they're now Tier 2, and not many of them.) This makes it very hard for someone who's just starting out as a Historian to get anywhere in the Scholar skill. The game needs more Tier 1 (and 2) nodes in the low-level areas.
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  11. #11

    Re: Scholar Nodes

    I have 2 SM scholars. Leveling my 2nd one was much harder than leveling my first one and I ended up buying most of the materials on the AH.

    The problem started when they changed the leveling curve. We simply don't spend as much time leveling in each zone as we used to. That translates to not farming as many nodes and not killing as many humanoid mobs before leveling up and moving on. It also doesn't help that many people use skirmishes to assist with leveling and there are no ingredient drops from skirmishes.

    The very act of killing mobs for mats is giving us the xp that causes us to move on before we have leveled our crafting skills. That's not the same for other skills which depend purely on ore & wood nodes and don't level just from gathering crafting mats, although tailors may be feeling some of the effect from collecting hides.

    Farming for dye ingredients is incredibly inefficient, so is picking up landscape plants. Mining is the best source of dye mats, but scholars can't mine.

    Possible solutions - lower the recipe requirements, increase the crafting xp for each recipe, increase the scholar mat drops from mobs and nodes or increase the number of nodes. I believe that tailors had their recipe requirements reduced at one point, so that might be the best approach for scholars as well.
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    Quote Originally Posted by Yosoff View Post
    Farming for dye ingredients is incredibly inefficient, so is picking up landscape plants. Mining is the best source of dye mats, but scholars can't mine.

    Possible solutions - lower the recipe requirements, increase the crafting xp for each recipe, increase the scholar mat drops from mobs and nodes or increase the number of nodes. I believe that tailors had their recipe requirements reduced at one point, so that might be the best approach for scholars as well.
    I don't know. I spent about 2 days farming the crit dye mats I needed for Tier 3.... Other than dyes, EVERYTHING in Expert requires Sindarin passages and those were the hardest for me to find when I was trying to get through that tier....

    Sindarin Passages seem to go for more than any other single scholar mat on the AH, somewhere around 300 silver EACH...

    I wouldn't be totally heartbroken about seeing at least a few more scholar nodes here & there....

  13. #13
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    I dont believe anyone who says Scholar is the hardest to level.
    I have the following SM/Kindred crafters on Elendilmir: Armourer (Metalsmith), Armsman (Weaponsmith), Explorer (Tailor), Historian (Scholar), Tinker (Jeweller), Woodsman (Woodworker) & Yeoman (Cook). I have a 2nd scholar, 2nd jeweller & 2nd cook on Elendilmir that have not yet hit Kindred.

    I also have an SM/Kindred Explorer (Tailor) and am currently working on a Historian on Firefoot.

    I think I have sufficient experience leveling crafters to know which ones are harder to level than others.

    At one time, metalsmith was the hardest to level, but the GMs noticed and reduced the number of mats needed to level that craft and I believe the tailoring craft as well. They also noticed the lack of khazad-copper ore and the ludicrous number of ore needed to make supreme tokens and reduced that as well. All I'm asking for is that they take notice of this too.

    Quote Originally Posted by oldbadgerbrock View Post
    Instead of performing a 'sell all' every time you visit the merchants, be sure to save crafting items. Those that are not used by your characters can be sold on the AH. (I personally have craftsmen of every sort so I save everything! )
    I never 'sell all' without very thoroughly combing through my inventory to see what might be useful to me, a kinsmate or another player first.

    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    Getting back to the OP's remark, low-tier (1 and 2) Scholar mats have become very rare. Adso's Camp used to have a couple of periodically respawning Tier 1 nodes. Not any more. (I think they're now Tier 2, and not many of them.) This makes it very hard for someone who's just starting out as a Historian to get anywhere in the Scholar skill. The game needs more Tier 1 (and 2) nodes in the low-level areas.
    This is my point. I wasn't asking for an increase in the higher level areas, just the lower ones. There are -plenty- of supreme tier nodes, and quite a few master tier as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yosoff View Post
    I have 2 SM scholars. Leveling my 2nd one was much harder than leveling my first one and I ended up buying most of the materials on the AH.
    Ditto here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yosoff View Post
    Farming for dye ingredients is incredibly inefficient, so is picking up landscape plants. Mining is the best source of dye mats, but scholars can't mine.
    I agree about the inefficiency of farming for dye components and the inability for scholars to mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yosoff View Post
    Possible solutions - lower the recipe requirements, increase the crafting xp for each recipe, increase the scholar mat drops from mobs and nodes or increase the number of nodes. I believe that tailors had their recipe requirements reduced at one point, so that might be the best approach for scholars as well.
    Any of those options would work as well for me. I just would like to find an area with scholar nodes that are in better supply than I've been able to find thus far - due to other people leveling scholars at the same time I'm trying to level mine.
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    Getting back to the OP's remark, low-tier (1 and 2) Scholar mats have become very rare. Adso's Camp used to have a couple of periodically respawning Tier 1 nodes. Not any more. (I think they're now Tier 2, and not many of them.) This makes it very hard for someone who's just starting out as a Historian to get anywhere in the Scholar skill. The game needs more Tier 1 (and 2) nodes in the low-level areas.
    The first tier should be more in area's like Chetwood North, south-east of Noglond up the stairs with the goblins (Vale of Thrain), probably Ringdale (just on top of my head).

    Adso's camp might already be too high level for tier 1 since it's more ... 14-15 vs lvl 7-8 of the other areas.

    Perhaps it's more because we level so fast, if you don't kill enough humanoids then you are definitely past that very easily.

    I remember going back to just south-east of Noglond there and "farming" for half an hour, maybe hour (?) - 2-3 nodes and goblins.

    Later on you get a boost though if you go through Haud Iarchith, they drop the master tier already.


    Keep in mind, vs gathering ore and wood the scholar items don't have to be refined, you need less of them in comparison.

    Ever since then I play more characters and without "gathering" per se I have an abundance of materials typically.
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    Quote Originally Posted by Rouven View Post
    Later on you get a boost though if you go through Haud Iarchith, they drop the master tier already.
    HI *used* to have T5 nodes....before it was broken up and the mobs nerfed when f2p launched. It was a great place to farm T5 nodes... Alas...it is no more.

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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    Quote Originally Posted by Yosoff View Post
    Farming for dye ingredients is incredibly inefficient, so is picking up landscape plants. Mining is the best source of dye mats, but scholars can't mine.
    Not really, though. Dye mats from crit-soil farming usually drop about 20%, IIRC. Thats one in five fields, at 20 seconds per field, means one dye mat per minute, on average. Which is about what I've anecdotally experienced. Thats definitely comparable, if not better, than how fast you find dye mats while hunting mineral nodes. Plus you dont have to worry about aggro monsters, and you dont have to leave town or even move anywhere

    Its horribly boring, yes, but not incredibly inefficient, per se....

  17. #17
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    I dont believe anyone who says Scholar is the hardest to level. Try leveling a Jeweller when you cant find a vein of noble metals because they've all been cherrypicked. I get the feeling that people only go to the scholar nodes that are within 500 m. of a swift travel stables, and then complain that they're overcamped and scholar is too hard to level. Or try to level by grinding out offense/defense scrolls, instead of the more resource-efficient potions and oils.
    I have a SKM Scholar and a SM Jeweler (went with cook for the Tinker's guild). I have to say that, in my experience, Scholar is far harder to get the mats in the quantities needed without spending 4 or 5 houses worth of gold on the AH. Yes, the nodes are grouped together, but the drop rates are low. Yes, everyone and their idiot stepchild rolls on scholar mats to stockpile and sell on the AH so they can make money or have someone in kin make them stuff. The mats just are not as plentiful as they are for any other profession, period.

    I would love to see more mats drop from the nodes, or have a way to exchange tier mats mats at the guild for needed mats. I refuse to pay the AH's inflated prices.

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  18. #18
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    Quote Originally Posted by Shellana View Post
    Yes, everyone and their idiot stepchild rolls on scholar mats to stockpile and sell on the AH so they can make money or have someone in kin make them stuff. The mats just are not as plentiful as they are for any other profession, period..

    ...

    I refuse to pay the AH's inflated prices.
    The numbers dont lie, though, and you cant have it both ways. What you're suggesting implies that there are a lot mroe scholar mats created and collected on a given server (because people in combat and looting things always >> people harvesting wood or ore at any given moment), plus it also implies that people are camping the existing scholar nodes to the point that you cant collect them at will like you can with wood/ore. If everyone and their idiot stepchild are selling those on the AH, then supply and demand says the price should go down, and the AH does a pretty good job regulating prices in that regard since everyone just undercuts the lowest existing price when they post.

    If scholar mats are really that much harder to acquire than ore/wood, then supply and demand says the difference has to come from somewhere:

    -Do you just need more scholar mats to level? Not really. You get 6 XP from 1 mat crafting potions (6/1=6) or 4 XP from 2 mats crafting oils (4/2=2). In wood/ore professions, you get 10 XP from 2 ingots/planks, which require 4 ore chunks/logs (10/4=2.5). So comparable if not better, even taking into account that there are no Bountiful scholar nodes and the fact you can crit on your subcomponents once you get your first anvil.

    -Are there just more scholars? I doubt it, from what I've seen its pretty common that everyone has the full suite of crafting vocs on their alts, so all T1-T5 components should be pretty much in equal demand for grinding up to T6. As I said before, its not like people make much T1-T5 scholar stuff after they've hit 2 anvils on a given tier.

    -Are people just selling their looted scholar mats to vendors instead of on the AH or Trade channels? Maybe, but no one's really made that claim so far, and it'd make no sense anyway if scholar mats were in such high demand that you'd sell a stack of them for 100s rather than for 3g.

    I'll agree that theres a bit of a dearth at T1, but beyond that I stand by my assertion that Scholar mats arent that hard to come by. If you disagree, then tell me where your numbers and models differ from mine, dont just say "I have 80 billion SMKs, so I must know what I'm talking about".

    If you're having that much of a problem, then you're probably doing something wrong. I've seen a lot of people that try to level Scholar with the same methods they used for woodworker, armorsmith, etc., and it just doesnt work that way, Scholar is a different beast and you have to use a combination of nodes, looted mats, AH/Trade with non-scholars, and farming for occasional dye mats. If you tried to level Cook just by harvesting nodes, imagine what a nightmare that would be
    Last edited by droid; Jul 21 2011 at 08:25 PM.

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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    It may be nice, but not necessary.
    Finding out ways to level my scholar was actually fun.

  20. #20

    Re: Scholar Nodes

    What I've found worst about scholar mats at all levels is that at every tier there's one item that's used in almost all the recipes and is inevitably the one that spawns least often. Whereas there's always an item that's rarely used and is always in vastly greater supply. As an example, my SM scholar did a couple of circuits of Lothlorien the other night and came away with about twice as many Broken Dwarf-Statues as of all other mats combined.

    I strongly suspect that there'd be a lot less complaining about the availability of scholar mats if the nodes were a bit better balanced. More of the mats that are used in most recipes and fewer of the equivalents to Broken Dwarf-Statues, would make it a great deal easier to level.

  21. #21
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    Quote Originally Posted by Avarune View Post
    What I've found worst about scholar mats at all levels is that at every tier there's one item that's used in almost all the recipes and is inevitably the one that spawns least often. Whereas there's always an item that's rarely used and is always in vastly greater supply. As an example, my SM scholar did a couple of circuits of Lothlorien the other night and came away with about twice as many Broken Dwarf-Statues as of all other mats combined.
    Oh, golly wumpers. The default spawns-too-many-for-any-practical-use Scholar mat in Moria appears to be the Etching of Moria. I have several HUNDREDS stacked on a mule. Whereas Broken Dwarf-Statues are what you make MALLEDHRIM POTIONS with!! I think I need to get a new milestone tie in the Vineyards. so I can run around collecting mats with a Lorien distribution.

    Thanks for the tip.

    (P.S. Would any Scholar on Elendilmir like a stack or two of Etchings? Or should I just put 'em on the AH?)
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    Trouble with scholar is, that you'll have a hard time to get to Tier 6 if you're crafting on an alt: But Tier 1 - 5 is a cakewalk.

    Tier 1-3:
    Northern Barrow Downs (Grind tombs & defeat undead as well)

    Tier 4:
    Run Ga instance and ask for ppl to donate you the scholar mats (or offer them money) or go to
    Agamaur (scholar nodes & drops from the undead)
    If everything fails: Grind Southern Barrow Downs.

    Tier 5:
    Again back into the Barrow Downs, but this time the southern one ...

    Tier 6:
    Eregion & Moria

    So, a lvl 30+ character can easily get to tier 5 but will be stuck there until he a) turn 50 and explores Moria or b) gets sb else to turn 50 and explore Moria for him (which will be slower)

    Btw: If you ask me jeweller is way worse to level with all the cherry picking :P

  23. #23
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    Not really, though. Dye mats from crit-soil farming usually drop about 20%, IIRC. Thats one in five fields, at 20 seconds per field, means one dye mat per minute, on average.
    /blink... You have 100 seconds per minute?

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  24. #24
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombielord View Post
    So, a lvl 30+ character can easily get to tier 5 but will be stuck there until he a) turn 50 and explores Moria or b) gets sb else to turn 50 and explore Moria for him (which will be slower)
    There are a few T6 nodes in Eregion near Echad Dunann...

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  25. #25
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    Re: Scholar Nodes

    I have a lvl 45 sholar, SM. My main is lvl 65. My other 5 alts are lvl 25 - 40, and all of my characters have different professions. They all save crafting mats and send them to each other.

    It is my perosonal experience that, aside from Tier 6, scholar mats are the hardest to come by. There are areas with light evidence of ruins that have no spawn points, and I am firmly convinced that the drop rate from chests and humanoid mobs is insufficient to make up for the selective node areas.
    Moria is different- it is ALL "ruins," and I regularly see nodes. I can't collect from them, but I collect enough from drops that my one character who can obtain T6 mats has gathered enough for him to completely master the supreme tier. Grinding for T5 mats in Eregion, though? I could kill mobs for HOURS, and wind up with a handful of T5 mats to send him. And the other alts collected enough for him to get through the lower levels, but it was much slower going than for any of the other crafts that the other alts do.
    I also agree that scholar mats tend to go for MUCH higher prices than other mats dom, and see that as evidence that those mats are more scarce.

    I realize that this is merely my personal experience, but it is what it is, and it is as valid as those who found the process much easier.

 

 

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