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  1. #1901
    i work full time travel an hour each way 2 work and still have time 4 morning pve raid on creepside if I wake up early enuf

  2. #1902
    Bitemarks, we agree on pretty much everything. The only difference is that I'm willing to accept Ettenmoors for what it is rather than wish it was something else. I see a lot of players (on both sides, but more so on creep) acting like someone who turns up at a Rugby club and complains that no-one wants to play Football.

    The zone just isn't what you want it to be and it's not going to change now. The devs had made it perfectly clear for 6 years that *they* see it as a contested PvE zone designed around group play. The truth is that there is NO SUCH THING as true PvP in LotRO. There is a weird hybrid group/faction/capture-the-flag/roaming zone thing called PvMP. Those players with a vision of pure 1v1 skill-based PvP are never, ever going to get what they want in this game.

    The only point made recently where I do disagree is yourself and Lauraa saying that the numbers are dropping and there won't be enough creeps to fight soon. The evidence of recent days/weeks is the opposite - the last 2 days freeps have at various points had the ON buff *while in a full raid plus soloers*. We've had over 100 players in the zone on both sides on regular occasions.

    The case could be made that Ettenmoors is the only part of the game which is really thriving at the moment on Eldar, at least if numbers are anything to go by. By this measure the changes - including easier ranking and deeds - are a success. I personally would not have come back after R11 if it hadn't been made so much easier to rank (renown from quests, +renown scrolls, more renown in raids). The gaps between ranks are too punishing for me to face without these things. But if course, I'm not a PvPer in any pure sense.
    Last edited by Tarmas_Eldar; Sep 17 2013 at 09:29 AM.

  3. #1903
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deniorona View Post
    i work full time travel an hour each way 2 work and still have time 4 morning pve raid on creepside if I wake up early enuf
    Getting up that early to do something in a game is your choice. Other people make other choices, but you want to deliberately hinder someone else's gameplay just because they make different real life choices to you?
    They are not deliberately hindering you, they are completing perfectly legitimate quests. You are allowing their actions to affect your evening play negatively, that is down to how you choose to play, not how they choose to.
    Whatever colour the map is should never be a hindrance to people playing PvP. We are all playing a Lord of the Rings role-playing game whether you actively roleplay or not. Numbers on either side of the War of the Ring were never equal, warriors were not all evenly matched but everyone involved got up and fought anyway and winning against the odds is far more satisfying that steamrollering someone. And the benefit of this attitude when in this game is that even if we fail, no death is involved, we just go to a spawn point and have to run back to the fight, no big deal.
    As Tarmas quite rightly said, whether players like it or not, Turbine have made Ettens a contested warzone. I take that to mean that if you aren't happy with the colours on the map, aren't happy with the buffs the other side have got, go get them back, so what if you aren't sure if you can win against any oppsition you might enounter, the win will be so much better if you succeed.
    To me personally that is what i feel PvP is, facing the enemy and dealing with whatever they have to dish out (even if it seems more than you can take), if you fail then you learn something and try harder/differently next time. Others will proabably disagree but i just want people to see where i am coming from in my attitudes.
    "The internet is a bubble dominated by the loudest, most unrepresentative voices; an infinitesimally small minority of a minority which, deaf to reason and the opinions of others, deludes itself that somehow it is the voice of the majority. An infinite echo chamber of shrieking, witless banality."

  4. #1904
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    Bitemarks, we agree on pretty much everything. The only difference is that I'm willing to accept Ettenmoors for what it is rather than wish it was something else.
    Maybe that is why i dont enjoy it as much as I did before hand and I left last year for a long break

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    The only point made recently where I do disagree is yourself and Lauraa saying that the numbers are dropping and there won't be enough creeps to fight soon. The evidence of recent days/weeks is the opposite - the last 2 days freeps have at various points had the ON buff *while in a full raid plus soloers*. We've had over 100 players in the zone on both sides on regular occasions.
    Wondering if its down to more freeps coming over to play creep and to sweel our numbers to help you

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    By this measure the changes - including easier ranking and deeds - are a success. I personally would not have come back after R11 if it hadn't been made so much easier to rank (renown from quests, +renown scrolls, more renown in raids). The gaps between ranks are too punishing for me to face without these things. But if course, I'm not a PvPer in any pure sense.
    THat is why rank mean nothing when it should mean sooo much more. Skills were earned, rank earned and you knew that the player actually knew their class they played whereas now, it's too easy and most do not know their class - it shows. Somethings shouldn't be easy

  5. #1905
    mayb ur getting confused..my original post in reply 2 shirk was that creep pve raids in morning and pve raids in eve wernt the same.
    the pve raids are 2 help the low ranks get maps 2 b able 2 zip around the map and get 2 fites quicker and in so doing have better or more fites.
    these forums are a way of venting any frustrations peeps have about the game for both sides 2 c.
    there is no hinderance of any1s gameplay bcuz they do wot they like. we can just yoyo all day with pros and cons about pve but that wasn't the topic I was referring 2. it was the comparison of 8am raids, which are needed and thanks 2 ignor and webss for taking them on.

  6. #1906
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    Many wise words...

    After reading all of your posts, i feel really sorry to CJ you on my wargy at one of the last days - won't happen again.

    As i said to Areya and Romanski many month ago, i only CJ friends and complete idiots...you are neither in one of this categories, but i thought you earned a place in the second one. I was wrong. Sorry!

  7. #1907
    Quote Originally Posted by BiteMarks View Post
    Somethings shouldn't be easy
    Sure. However, when something becomes so hard/time-consuming that people don't bother trying it *at all* then there is a problem. For what it's worth, I'd not be in Ettens now if there hadn't been changes made. 300k from R11-R12 and 600k from R12-R13 was not something I would even have contemplated under the old speed.

    Again, the sheer numbers in Ettens right now are telling Turbine they got things about right. The brutal truth is that the Ettenmoors that pure PvP players would like to see would be largely empty.

    I'm talking about the ease of ranking here btw - I completely agree that changing the way the deeds worked was asinine.

  8. #1908
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgonites View Post
    After reading all of your posts, i feel really sorry to CJ you on my wargy at one of the last days - won't happen again!
    Thanks .

    But don't worry, I didn't notice anyway! I really pay very little attention to who kbs me or even who I kb, except for a handful of old friends/foes, very few of whom still play (Aroreaver! Wherefore art thou Aroreaver!). The first creep to kb me when I transferred here in June 2008 - and also the first creep I got a kb on - was Mudface, when he was the highest ranked player on either side in the world. After that, no-one else really counts!

  9. #1909
    [QUOTE=Tarmas_Eldar;6922268]
    Again, the sheer numbers in Ettens right now are telling Turbine they got things about right. The brutal truth is that the Ettenmoors that pure PvP players would like to see would be largely empty.

    if there was good content ingame I don't think we'd c half the amount of peeps in moors.

    so guess we have 2 b thankful the games dead at mo cuz more peeps mean more battle!

  10. #1910
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    Sure. However, when something becomes so hard/time-consuming that people don't bother trying it *at all* then there is a problem. For what it's worth, I'd not be in Ettens now if there hadn't been changes made. 300k from R11-R12 and 600k from R12-R13 was not something I would even have contemplated under the old speed.
    I agree the amount between the higher ranks is insane as I am there now trying to get R13, but it was still something to go for no matter how long it takes and should then be seen as an achievement. Now it means nothing at all. Those rank skill which you had to earn, can now be bought in store so even the low ranks can use them.

    Rank needs to mean something, so maybe BFP's need to be given more importance seeing as the rest of the rank stuff has been undervalued

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    I'm talking about the ease of ranking here btw - I completely agree that changing the way the deeds worked was asinine.
    Deeds are a joke and I dont even see/want them in the game now. It was some thing yet again to work towards but Turbine got it wrong on how each class was able ot acheive it and now its too easy again.

  11. #1911
    I always find amusing when i see freeps who complain about a presumed freep opness, especially when it comes from the same freeps who, in the MONTHS prior to u11, the most unbalanced period in lotro history ever (in favor of creeps), decided wisely to stay away from the Ettenmoors and farm instances to get second/first age and top jewels (or played creep side), if you really feel your class is too op (but can't imagine someone becoming furious for being able to kill something or survive a nasty fight) don't worry, there are many solutions for that, you could use a third age in example instead of the long farmed first age or use some poor jewel or no jewel at all, you can remove the audacity armor, you can leave virtues slot empty and so on, i'm sure you will find a balance that will fit your needs but please don't come here saying you can't play your class because is too op because it's something out of this world.
    About pve in pvp area i'm sorry for those who didn't understand it yet after all these years, but in lotro is an active part of the game and you'll just have to accept it, if you come just for spars or hope in a fight with balanced numbers you are in the wrong game and should have realized that already by long time; someone said in a previous post "why creeps should go out when map is full blue with all dof buffs" so tell me, why freeps should go out when map is full red and you got all dof buffs? For what i concern, when i'm online, if map is red and there are no good fights around i'll always try to paint it blue and if you creeps don't like it i couldn't care less, i'm here for the good of the freep side and not to entertain the creeps, Eldar is called the creeps heaven and that's because of the numbers who often are in creeps benefit so if your thoughts were genuine an honest you should not complain at all, i suppose that having a r15 brand, multiple potions to give immunity and the chance to buy skills on store is still not enough so better to keep whining, some dev might even believe us...
    Captain-General Odovocar Balger, the Alluring

  12. #1912
    For those saying that they want easy access to first agers from r13, u do know that if they follow same path as in RoR, First agers wont be available in GV until AFTER the regular pve raids get them, and then towards the middle/end of expansion they add to GV.

  13. #1913
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    OK... So I know I said I would only make one post here and be done with it, but I feel Deni's reply to my initial post has caused another QQ session this time over PvE... So I will sum it up for everyone.

    Speaking from a creep perspective;

    PvE is an absolute integral part of the game up until such time that the creep has all the maps. The early morning PvE raids led by ignor are a god send and they really help new creeps, having been in many of the raids myself, and it is annoying that the few freeps that are on that early sometimes seek to disrupt it. Unfortunately unlike Freeps, Creeps need to PvE it is essential for them to get those much needed Maps.

    Speaking from a freep perspective;

    In my honest opinion... Freep PvE is pointless the time you spend doing all the freep quests is time you could have spent killing creeps earning similar if not more renown, but this is just my opinion and unfortunately there are many freeps who will disagree. If freeps must PvE they should do it during non-raid hours.

    Now, speaking once again as a neutral player...

    The Auto-Flipping of keeps has gotten beyond a joke to the extent the map is blue 90% of the time until a creep raid leader comes online and paints it red. I personally do not agree with map painting. Each side should retain a single GY and 2 OP's and neither side should touch the others, because when the raid disbands this is how you retain a fair fight or you end up with Tir BackDoor action and Grams Camping which is no fun for anyone. Tol should be left up to the disgression of whoever is leading the raid whether or not it should be taken, in my opinion unless a specific side is hugging the keep there is no reason for anyone to attempt to take it. In recent months LC has become a popular battleground and the constant flipping of it back and forth is again beyond a joke; and does anyone really care about Isendeep anyway?

    My message to Freeps who like to PvE in the ettens, there is no issue with this, if that is how you chose to play the game you should not be penalised by others for it. However I would ask if you are determined to PvE you do it in what I like to call Non-Peak Hours... So, after raids have disbanded, when action is bad, when neither side is really fighting each other, other than small group fights around the Ettens. PvE should not be carried out in my opinion while there is potential raid vs raid action, unless it is to re-take a flipped GY or flipped OP.

    I do not agree with the concept of Keep Hugging by either side, fights should be in Open spaces in which each side have equal advantage. However in situations in which one side has the ON buff that side may hug a keep in order to re-balance the fight (Not that NPC's give that much of an advantage anyway).

    I hope this will not cause another QQ session and that many of you will heed what I have said.

    Laura...

  14. #1914
    eh don't blame me I was agreeing with u

  15. #1915
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areya121 View Post
    For those saying that they want easy access to first agers from r13, u do know that if they follow same path as in RoR, First agers wont be available in GV until AFTER the regular pve raids get them, and then towards the middle/end of expansion they add to GV.
    Which is usually when i am lucky enough to get one anyway due to others feeling sorry for me.
    "The internet is a bubble dominated by the loudest, most unrepresentative voices; an infinitesimally small minority of a minority which, deaf to reason and the opinions of others, deludes itself that somehow it is the voice of the majority. An infinite echo chamber of shrieking, witless banality."

  16. #1916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laura_Everett View Post
    OK...
    Laura...
    +rep once again.

    Well said

  17. #1917
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deniorona View Post
    eh don't blame me I was agreeing with u
    Not blaming, simply saying your reply had unforseen implications Nothing wrong with what you said. In fact I agree with it

  18. #1918
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    Since we all agree (disagree) about PvE and other, i am really interested in this

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirkaster View Post
    Dear Wargies of Eldar, i am interested in your opinion


  19. #1919
    Quote Originally Posted by Shirkaster View Post
    Creeps are annoyed by freeps PVE raids, but you still have every morning PVE nonsense, it's pretty much lame to
    preach about it if you do the same, even worse, since you doing it every morning, for how long now?
    -----------------------------------------------
    PvE Raid is Pve Raid. Done at 9 am, or 9 PM, i really cant find difference. Maybe Faerdo/Odo enjoy PvE as well, but they cant do it in the morning, because they are at work. So they want to do their PvE share when they come home from work, and who are you to deny them they share of PvE if you do that same...
    As explained by many others Shirk, and if you lower your colored view you most likely see it the same way, the morning pve is a need to get creeps a bit less fudder for freeps (maps/rank and even some experience in pvp groupplay). The milkruns flip keeps yes, and most of times the same keeps are auto-flipping back and fort several times sometimes even within 5 min, so no pvp influencing actions in that part.

    Milkrun also flips op's, but rarely more than two, more often we end with 4 blue op's due to the ease of flipping it by solo freeps over and over again (I dont mind much unless we get attacked by freeps, as I prefer a more even op-buff set). Again, no pvp influencing event again.

    We dont even go Ost often (maybe once a week for greenies to get their deeds done), and we never ever go into dof to grab %buffs.
    -----------------------------------------------
    The main difference with the Faerdo/Odo raids is that they go pve to grab the %buffs, often 2+ op's and then keep the fraid alive to camp GY/Grams/chase solo's.

    In short: creep pve is non pvp intrusive while the fraids of the two above are, and that's the crucial difference imho.
    (side-note: many freeps joined milkruns a while ago to get their comms/audaciy sorted.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    . . . Again, the sheer numbers in Ettens right now are telling Turbine they got things about right. . .
    Personally I think the numbers in Etten right now is a result of lack of content in pve.

    -----------------------------------------------
    Last but not least, I like Lau and the balls he shows to attack the milkrun solo, and getting some kills with his bold strategies. For me he brings some fun in these mostly boring milkruns.
    *thumbs up*
    The end is near, the ring will melt, but not if I can help it!

  20. #1920
    Dear Wargies of Eldar, i am interested in your opinion
    What there to opinion about Shirk? Freep OP, champs with more survival ability than guardians, bubble/horn/bubble/etc and if it goes wrong sprint' away with the long sprint legacy all the way to Bree.

    Simi was afaik the first to get the title Bubble-boy.

    . . i'm here for the good of the freep side . . .
    and some more BS
    just LOL, you are really the halfbrain we always make fun of on creep ooc
    The end is near, the ring will melt, but not if I can help it!

  21. #1921
    Just in case anyone was in any doubt I really hate DoF and wish they would brick the place up.

    I don't go there I make a cup of tea instead.

    All we are saying is ......give peace a chance.

    There is to much PVE in the ettens, but until Turbine remove it, the high amount of PVE will remain.

    Give both sides a GY and stick to them, no flipping of OP's and lets get back to fighting in the map and not in forums

  22. #1922
    Quote Originally Posted by botoo View Post
    We dont even go Ost often (maybe once a week for greenies to get their deeds done), and we never ever go into dof to grab %buffs.
    -----------------------------------------------
    The main difference with the Faerdo/Odo raids is that they go pve to grab the %buffs, often 2+ op's and then keep the fraid alive to camp GY/Grams/chase solo's.

    In short: creep pve is non pvp intrusive while the fraids of the two above are, and that's the crucial difference imho.
    (side-note: many freeps joined milkruns a while ago to get their comms/audaciy sorted.)
    And why would you need to go in dof in the morning when:
    1-no quests there
    2-you know perfectly that buffs expire after 6 hours

    Looks like my halfbrain is still better and way more efficient that your full one, go figure, you better check what the evening creeps raid leaders do before talking of the opposite side.
    Captain-General Odovocar Balger, the Alluring

  23. #1923
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    very few of whom still play (Aroreaver! Wherefore art thou Aroreaver!).
    Sorry to disappoint you, but Aro won't be coming back to LOTRO. I miss him as well. Might be a bit sentimental, but never expected to actually miss people you never met face to face (before playing LOTRO). Aro was a great guy, really funny and it's strange that after spending so much time in tribe groups with him, I know that I will never speak with him again.


    Quote Originally Posted by Manes View Post
    And why would you need to go in dof in the morning when:
    1-no quests there
    2-you know perfectly that buffs expire after 6 hours
    Due to a fulltime job I can barely ever join the PvE morning run, but the very few times I did, we never went to DOF. We only flipped keeps, an OP and did a couple of quests (HH, drakes, goldy).

    Are you refusing to notice the difference between creeps doing PvE for maps in the morning (when there isn't any PvP anyway), and freeps doing PvE during prime time for the buffs? Don't flip keeps/OPs/DOFbosses during prime time when there's no real need for it.

    Edit: wanted to add that we creeps sometimes flip keeps/OPs as well when there's no need for it, but I get the idea you are doing it more often than us. Doesn't make it right that we do it as well though. But you can't compare morning PvE runs with evening PvE runs. The latter ruins PvP, while the first only improves it (creeps with maps/audacity balances the fight, we need more good creeps). Personally, I leave the raid when we are doing too much PvE during prime time (and I hope to see others will do that as well to make a statement).
    Last edited by Wardrat; Sep 17 2013 at 01:48 PM.

  24. #1924
    Hands on My heart i can swear that i Will never take a raid in To dof To take buffs!

    I dont know My way around in there To use it as a shortcut from op To op or ec...

    The Times i make raids i Will play With what ever buffs are on...

    About ops i dont like them at all, but i disslike the 20 sec before a fight flip that occure To often. They are usable To try and get raid fights on Other locations Then x-y road. Close To tir hs, lug gy.

    I live by one rule! If i wipe creep raid i Will move the fight To a better location for the creeps To even out the fight. If i Then wipe, i expect creeps To do the exact same. U can call it what you want. But i call even long fights fun. And thats all i care about when i lead raids.

    I want freeps To have fun and creeps. If one side is unhappy the rvr stops and no more fun!


  25. #1925
    Quote Originally Posted by Erlo View Post
    A true pvp pov
    That's how pvp should be Erlo, unfortunately some your fellow raidleaders (I prefer to call them ez-mode farmers) name their game 'more efficient' . The way you discribe is seen on better pvp servers (like Brandywine) but unfortunately Eldar is home and we have to cope with the ez-moders who aren't interested in pvp.
    The end is near, the ring will melt, but not if I can help it!

 

 
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