PvMP on Eldar (Part 4)

[Wardrat]

It was really fun playing hide and seek earlier this evening.

I had 32 freeps on track and pretty much tail gated you guys all over the map (even watched you guys kill the tree in ED, which apparently is even more boring than actually fighting it). We only had a full raid and barely any followers. Why would you guys keep running around the map? And at one point even worse... why would you take another OP? 2 OPs for each side is more than enough. If you want to provoke a fight, just stand still, we will come eventually. I was spam tracked the entire time so you knew that I was scouting for the creep raid and yet you guys still seemed to be running away from us. If you had been standing still on the same spot for longer than 2 seconds, the creep raid could actually come to you.

Maybe you freeps did try to engage us, I don't know, but from my perspective it looked like we were circling each other like angry cats without actually fighting.

The 2 raid fights we had were a lot of fun though. One inside ED and another at Isen. Both good fun and lasted long. Heals were great on both sides. Even my squashy warg survived longer than usually. (side-note: they really should give a warg heavy armour)

[Laura_Everett]

Ok.. So this is the first, last and only post I am going to make on these forums.
Argue with it, dismiss it, ignore it do whatever - I don't care.

Many of you know me - I am the LM, Laurraa.

Now...

Speaking from my time on freep side - we are OP there is no denying this, I hate what turbine have to done to my class, Water-Lore is the worst possible skill invented. As a freep I completely understand where creeps are coming from - certain raid leaders on the freep side annoy the hell out of me; why they see fit to the moment they log in instantly take the
entire of DoF is beyond me, If I wanted to PvE I wouldn't come to the ettens, yes the extra renown buffs are nice, but is it necessary for freeps to have them 100% of the time, and why is it necessary the moment creeps take a single buff there is an instant need to take it from them. Running around in DoF is time better spent fighting creeps I especially hate the fact when the fraid goes into DoF to take buffs when there is a craid waiting outside...

Speaking as a creep, quite frankly unless you are either a store bought class or R8-9+ you have no chance of soloing in the current ettenmoors situation. Creeps need major revamping the imbalance is shocking.

Now speaking as a neutral player...

Firstly... Both sides QQ just as bad eachother. Creeps log freep to QQ. Freeps do the same. They always have. Deal with it.

Secondly... It takes a lot of guts to lead an ettens raid and there are few willing to lead raids and lets just say if they stopped, action would die along with it. QQ at them as much as you like but do not throw malicious comments at either sides raid leaders - both sides are glad they are there.

Thirdly... Creeps will continue to be camped and ON until Helm's Deep release unfortunately it is just the way the game goes, there are not enough creeps to match the number of freeps nor the number of people who flip sides depending on which side is winning. We all know with HD release the action will flip and it will be endless GV Camp until freeps are fully re-geared and when we are it will return to the way action has been now.

Fourthly... What they have done to OP's is just stupid. They just insight further imbalance and I think it is to the duty of the freeps/creeps to do something about it. Let us all agree here and now 2 OP's for each side. If Necessary we can designate OP's to each side. And then just agree that neither side will take the others OPs... Or we can continue raging and arguing and learn to live with the constant OP flipping - your choice.

Turbine needs to fix the imbalance, until they do ettens will always be hard for one side. QQing about it, Flaming each other and arguing amongst yourselves is just pointless - it makes everyone bitter and just increases hostilities between each side.

If you want someone to flame at. Flame at turbine.

Now... On the matter of Spars - LC3 to most players is the recognised and designated area for Spars. There are those on both sides who see that spars are clubbing and should be stopped, that is their view and if you are sparring it is something you are going to have to learn to deal with, whether you like it or not. Just as you are going to have to get used to the fact that if you spar you are at risk of being ganked by either side at any point.

I've said my piece. Good night!

P.S

- GZ to Blindings on R15
- R.I.P Odesius.

[Ellemere]

superwords

- GZ to Blindings on R15
- R.I.P Odesius.

+rep absolutely right.

[BiteMarks]

Many of you know me - I am the LM, Laurraa.

+rep

Well said and I totally agree on everything said.

[Creepkilla]

*thoughts on ettens*

well said Laura!

pretty much sums it all up

now... less talk guys more PVP!

[Erlo]

Ok.. So this is the first, last and only post I am going to make on these forums.
Argue with it, dismiss it, ignore it do whatever - I don't care.

Many of you know me - I am the LM, Laurraa.

Now...

Speaking from my time on freep side - we are OP there is no denying this, I hate what turbine have to done to my class, Water-Lore is the worst possible skill invented. As a freep I completely understand where creeps are coming from - certain raid leaders on the freep side annoy the hell out of me; why they see fit to the moment they log in instantly take the
entire of DoF is beyond me, If I wanted to PvE I wouldn't come to the ettens, yes the extra renown buffs are nice, but is it necessary for freeps to have them 100% of the time, and why is it necessary the moment creeps take a single buff there is an instant need to take it from them. Running around in DoF is time better spent fighting creeps I especially hate the fact when the fraid goes into DoF to take buffs when there is a craid waiting outside...

Speaking as a creep, quite frankly unless you are either a store bought class or R8-9+ you have no chance of soloing in the current ettenmoors situation. Creeps need major revamping the imbalance is shocking.

Now speaking as a neutral player...

Firstly... Both sides QQ just as bad eachother. Creeps log freep to QQ. Freeps do the same. They always have. Deal with it.

Secondly... It takes a lot of guts to lead an ettens raid and there are few willing to lead raids and lets just say if they stopped, action would die along with it. QQ at them as much as you like but do not throw malicious comments at either sides raid leaders - both sides are glad they are there.

Thirdly... Creeps will continue to be camped and ON until Helm's Deep release unfortunately it is just the way the game goes, there are not enough creeps to match the number of freeps nor the number of people who flip sides depending on which side is winning. We all know with HD release the action will flip and it will be endless GV Camp until freeps are fully re-geared and when we are it will return to the way action has been now.

Fourthly... What they have done to OP's is just stupid. They just insight further imbalance and I think it is to the duty of the freeps/creeps to do something about it. Let us all agree here and now 2 OP's for each side. If Necessary we can designate OP's to each side. And then just agree that neither side will take the others OPs... Or we can continue raging and arguing and learn to live with the constant OP flipping - your choice.

Turbine needs to fix the imbalance, until they do ettens will always be hard for one side. QQing about it, Flaming each other and arguing amongst yourselves is just pointless - it makes everyone bitter and just increases hostilities between each side.

If you want someone to flame at. Flame at turbine.

Now... On the matter of Spars - LC3 to most players is the recognised and designated area for Spars. There are those on both sides who see that spars are clubbing and should be stopped, that is their view and if you are sparring it is something you are going to have to learn to deal with, whether you like it or not. Just as you are going to have to get used to the fact that if you spar you are at risk of being ganked by either side at any point.

I've said my piece. Good night!

P.S

- GZ to Blindings on R15
- R.I.P Odesius.

......Amen!

[Deniorona]

Laura spot on.
And if freeps agree why the hell do you guys join to pve?! If you don't agree with it don't join, just join for the fights. If you know your fraid leaders gonna do dof, turn map blue or take more than 2 ops refuse you have a say in what the raid does cuz ur part of it

[Craven_EU_Eldar]

Thats not entirely true, not all of us are here with PvE items as the end goal, they are just something nice we get along the way. .

Nope you are there for something much more pointless in the form of ranks/pointless titles

[Gorgonites]

I've said my piece. Good night!

P.S

- GZ to Blindings on R15
- R.I.P Odesius.

Well said Laurraa my Dear!

[Shirkaster]

Laura spot on.
And if freeps agree why the hell do you guys join to pve?! If you don't agree with it don't join, just join for the fights. If you know your fraid leaders gonna do dof, turn map blue or take more than 2 ops refuse you have a say in what the raid does cuz ur part of it

Creeps are annoyed by freeps PVE raids, but you still have every morning PVE nonsense, it's pretty much lame to
preach about it if you do the same, even worse, since you doing it every morning, for how long now?

[Gorgonites]

Creeps are annoyed by freeps PVE raids, but you still have every morning PVE nonsense, it's pretty much lame to
preach about it if you do the same, even worse, since you doing it every morning, for how long now?

How many freeps are online during the morning milk run? 1-5?

You should know better Shirk, but that this is the only way for low rank creeps to get some maps, because at the afternoon/evening they have no chance to get them. I personally know only a handfull freeps who don't disturb them at HH or whatever. We are talking about the main PvP-Time, where OP's and keeps flipped every 5-10 minutes.

Keep it balanced with 2vs2 OP's and nearly the same buffs so we have a win-win situation for both sides.

[BiteMarks]

Creeps are annoyed by freeps PVE raids, but you still have every morning PVE nonsense, it's pretty much lame to
preach about it if you do the same, even worse, since you doing it every morning, for how long now?

Yeah, we are doing PVE runs most mornings but what you fail to see is that you freeps have the entire game to PVE in away from the Moors. You can PVE your hearts away outside of the Moors and yet you come into the Moors and still the 1st things you do is raid up, grab all the buffs, flip the map and then wonder why creeps don't come out to play. Use some logic here if you please.......

For the new creeps, the PVE run is the only way they may get their maps etc done as you will zerg anythign you usually see once the afternoon approaches. There is only a few decent freeps around that wont attack the low rank ones anymore which shows how bad it has become on Eldar now. Also, in the morning PVE run, quite a few of those creeps are actually freeps so in fact you are having a go at your own friends!!

Creeps do not have anywhere else to go play, nor go to PvMP outside of the Moors. I'd gladly go to other areas away from the Moors if I wanted to PVE stuff and then play only PvMP in the Moors but as a creep I do not have that choice yet you freeps do.

The Moors is the only place we have.

[Deniorona]

Creeps are annoyed by freeps PVE raids, but you still have every morning PVE nonsense, it's pretty much lame to
preach about it if you do the same, even worse, since you doing it every morning, for how long now?

the morning pve raids are 2 get our maps and as u played creep u shud know that. without maps creeps are sitting ducks.

[Shirkaster]

the morning pve raids are 2 get our maps and as u played creep u shud know that. without maps creeps are sitting ducks.

Yea i know, i have 3 creeps with full sets of maps, jsut missing isen3 on BA, and all got all by my own without any pve nonsense raids

Speaking of inserting logic,

PvE Raid is Pve Raid. Done at 9 am, or 9 PM, i really cant find difference. Maybe Faerdo/Odo enjoy PvE as well, but they cant do it in the morning, because they are at work. So they want to do their PvE share when they come home from work, and who are you to deny them they share of PvE if you do that same...

[Deniorona]

Yea i know, i have 3 creeps with full sets of maps, jsut missing isen3 on BA, and all got all by my own without any pve nonsense raids

Speaking of inserting logic,

PvE Raid is Pve Raid. Done at 9 am, or 9 PM, i really cant find difference. Maybe Faerdo/Odo enjoy PvE as well, but they cant do it in the morning, because they are at work. So they want to do their PvE share when they come home from work, and who are you to deny them they share of PvE if you do that same...

lols who u trying 2 kid. ur making lame excuses now. if freeps want 2 pve in game u really think the best pve is in ettens? if ur going 2 quote me make it better than that seriously......

[Ellemere]

lols who u trying 2 kid. ur making lame excuses now. if freeps want 2 pve in game u really think the best pve is in ettens? if ur going 2 quote me make it better than that seriously......

I find it difficult to read your posts due to you not using actual English and this also makes it hard for me to take anything you say seriously. But anyway, on to my reply...
PvE in the Moors awards both renown and infamy, if it didn't people probably wouldn't do it. People don't go to the Moors to PvE because they prefer it there than anywhere else in game. They do it because it rewards the player with both rank and commendations, which both give access to nice rewards at the barter npcs.
Turbine have increased PvE available for both sides and no player has the right to tell another player they cannot do the available content, regardless of the time of day. You can politely ask people in the evening not to do PvE, but if they wish to do it then (particularly if they are unable to do it during the day due to work or other commitments) then you have no right to vilify them for it.
At the moment there is a small but very vocal number of PvMP players who are repeatedly telling anyone doing the PvE content that they should not be doing so as they are completely ruining any PvP experience they themselves are trying to have. This type of attitude accomplishes nothing, all it does it push away newcomers to the Moors (not necessarily to the game) and also upsets some of the people who have been in the Moors for a while now. This will then serve to do nothing but firstly, keep PvPers to a minimum and then to cause the numbers to decline. Which seems to be exactly what this vocal minority are telling us people who do PvE is doing to the Moors.

[Deniorona]

my point actually was comparing the pve raid at 8am uk time 2 pve raids in eve by freep players is totally out of line. the pve raid creepside in the morning is mainly 2 get maps its done at a time that not many freeps play so isn't an inconvenience 2 them.
but u miss my point but then again I miss urs when u say all u want is shiny stuff from ettens and not pvp...

[Axeny]

Yea i know, i have 3 creeps with full sets of maps, jsut missing isen3 on BA, and all got all by my own without any pve nonsense raids

Speaking of inserting logic,

PvE Raid is Pve Raid. Done at 9 am, or 9 PM, i really cant find difference. Maybe Faerdo/Odo enjoy PvE as well, but they cant do it in the morning, because they are at work. So they want to do their PvE share when they come home from work, and who are you to deny them they share of PvE if you do that same...

Shirk PvE raid done at 9 am is different. 2-3 Freeps get 3-4 kills against 15-16 creeps - this speak about the ranking of creeps in the raid and 40-50% are freeps farming commendations(I have been there). This is pretty much the only viable way for creeps to get to r3-4 and get some maps,skills, AUD. How many single Q can a r1 WL or Def can do. 2 min epic fights again slugs The morning PvEs are a necessary evil as creeps need to do those Q & get some Commendations/Rank/Maps so we can have better fights later

I wanted to play a WL and made one and it was terrible feeling to even try to kill a slug solo, even though I had 20+k commendations from my freeps. Who would take a r0-r1 into PvP raid. Noone. Creeps need numbers right now to give you more renown so it is a good thing for freeps

@Elle Which one would you prefer - Having a fight against creeps or raiding against TIR tyrant?

[Ellemere]

@Elle Which one would you prefer - Having a fight against creeps or raiding against TIR tyrant?

Neither, i enjoy both as much as each other depending on how busy it is in the moors and what people are doing.

[Tarmas_Eldar]

I don't think anyone enjoys Delving of Fror PvE and I am still completely at a loss to understand what the devs were thinking of when they (i) added it in the first place and (ii) gave the three bosses a combined infamy/renown buff of +100%.

That said, while those +40%/30%/30% buffs exist, no raid leader is going to ignore them on either Creep or Freep.

I also don't think anyone considers the OP buffs to be beneficial. It is a complete and total PITA. In a reasonably balanced raid vs raid fight the difference between 2-2 and 3-1 in OPs is enough to tip the balance. Most raids would happily just leave it at 2-2 but they also randomly flip and people outside the raids take them too - sometimes just to spite the LC3 crowd. It really needs to change.

On PvE around keeps, people complaining about this are just denying the reality of the zone. It's a contested PvE zone. There are more PvE daily quests in Ettenmoors than in any other zone of the game. Taking a keep is worth around 350 renown/infamy, plus commendations, plus drops from mobs, plus +20% renown/infamy even without considering the tactical advantages like GYs and places to retreat to/fight in. The first thing raid leaders on BOTH sides do is take a keep or two.

Turbine have made it perfectly clear what their vision for Ettenmoors is - they made PvE *more* core to the experience, *more* rewarding and *more* tactically important. In days past LC and ID would stay one colour all day, each side would have one GY keep and there would be the odd battle around Tol. Nowadays we're equally likely to fight all over. I completed *all five* 'defence of...' quests last night, for example. I don't remember ever having a raid vs raid fight in Isendeep Mine before this update.

I'm completely sure Turbine would see this as a great success. And given the complaints we used to have about static zergs, it's surely better to fight all over. Turbine have given us a PvE zone to fight over and that's what we're doing. It's all working as intended.

[Ellemere]

I don't think anyone enjoys Delving of Fror PvE and I am still completely at a loss to understand what the devs were thinking of when they (i) added it in the first place and (ii) gave the three bosses a combined infamy/renown buff of +100%.

That said, while those +40%/30%/30% buffs exist, no raid leader is going to ignore them on either Creep or Freep.

I also don't think anyone considers the OP buffs to be beneficial. It is a complete and total PITA. In a reasonably balanced raid vs raid fight the difference between 2-2 and 3-1 in OPs is enough to tip the balance. Most raids would happily just leave it at 2-2 but they also randomly flip and people outside the raids take them too - sometimes just to spite the LC3 crowd. It really needs to change.

On PvE around keeps, people complaining about this are just denying the reality of the zone. It's a contested PvE zone. There are more PvE daily quests in Ettenmoors than in any other zone of the game. Taking a keep is worth around 350 renown/infamy, plus commendations, plus drops from mobs, plus +20% renown/infamy even without considering the tactical advantages like GYs and places to retreat to/fight in. The first thing raid leaders on BOTH sides do is take a keep or two.

Turbine have made it perfectly clear what their vision for Ettenmoors is - they made PvE *more* core to the experience, *more* rewarding and *more* tactically important. In days past LC and ID would stay one colour all day, each side would have one GY keep and there would be the odd battle around Tol. Nowadays we're equally likely to fight all over. I completed *all five* 'defence of...' quests last night, for example. I don't remember ever having a raid vs raid fight in Isendeep Mine before this update.

I'm completely sure Turbine would see this as a great success. And given the complaints we used to have about static zergs, it's surely better to fight all over. Turbine have given us a PvE zone to fight over and that's what we're doing. It's all working as intended.

you say it so much better than i can.

[Tarmas_Eldar]

BTW just wanted to add that I do totally sympathise with the early-morning low-rank Creep PvE argument. Red badge creeps are horrendously weak, even if they've had commendations spent on them from a higher-rank alt or freep. Personally I tend to leave red badge questing creeps alone if I find them. I felt bad for the poor R1 RVR poisoning the Hoardale who got rolled over by the Fraid last night - *that* was unlucky :/

To put this in perspective, imagine coming to Ettenmoors on your freep with no LIs, quest reward armour and no virtues. That's how strong a R0 creep is. Freeps like that get summarily ejected from Fraids and told to go tool themselves up elsewhere. Lowbie creeps don't have that choice. I have every respect for those who stick it out and for the higher-rank creeps who help them (a helpfullness you'd not find on freep side).

[BiteMarks]

I don't think anyone enjoys Delving of Fror PvE and I am still completely at a loss to understand what the devs were thinking of when they (i) added it in the first place and (ii) gave the three bosses a combined infamy/renown buff of +100%.

That said, while those +40%/30%/30% buffs exist, no raid leader is going to ignore them on either Creep or Freep.

Some do ignore these as a lot of creeps hate going in there and doing PVE. Even if raid leader wants to, we have a choice and some stay out whislt the others go in and get them.

I also don't think anyone considers the OP buffs to be beneficial. It is a complete and total PITA. In a reasonably balanced raid vs raid fight the difference between 2-2 and 3-1 in OPs is enough to tip the balance. Most raids would happily just leave it at 2-2 but they also randomly flip and people outside the raids take them too - sometimes just to spite the LC3 crowd. It really needs to change.

Was one of the worse things Devs done here and it should work the other way around - the more OP's you have the worse your bonus is. Having 2-2 should give a zero bonus to ratings. If its 3-1 then you should lose rating not gain an advantage - it should help the lesser of the sides in my eyes.

On PvE around keeps, people complaining about this are just denying the reality of the zone. It's a contested PvE zone. There are more PvE daily quests in Ettenmoors than in any other zone of the game. Taking a keep is worth around 350 renown/infamy, plus commendations, plus drops from mobs, plus +20% renown/infamy even without considering the tactical advantages like GYs and places to retreat to/fight in.

It shoudn't be a contested PVE area at all. It should be simply a open PvMP area. If you want PvE, go into the rest of the game.

The first thing raid leaders on BOTH sides do is take a keep or two.

We'd love to if you want a fair long time fight but taking both GY's means harder fights. I'd love to have a single GY each but both sides are culpable in this at some points during the fight. With the idiotic auto-flipping it now makes it harder to have a GY especially when it mainly flips to blue all the time.

Turbine have made it perfectly clear what their vision for Ettenmoors is - they made PvE *more* core to the experience, *more* rewarding and *more* tactically important. In days past LC and ID would stay one colour all day, each side would have one GY keep and there would be the odd battle around Tol. Nowadays we're equally likely to fight all over. I completed *all five* 'defence of...' quests last night, for example. I don't remember ever having a raid vs raid fight in Isendeep Mine before this update.

Another huge mistake by Turs.h.i.t.e. This area was PvMP but because of whiners and QQ'ers, they have made it all to easy now in gaining ranks, skills etc.... Rank is worthless. You have no joy gaining it anymore. THe deeds were one to look at and try and achieve - now that has also been taken away. Everything is easy mode - even easier on freep side with your OPness.

As for 'more', it's worse. The old fights at Tol lawn, old EC/OC was so much better fun then they are now. When was the last time we have a good fight in either????

I'm completely sure Turbine would see this as a great success. And given the complaints we used to have about static zergs, it's surely better to fight all over. Turbine have given us a PvE zone to fight over and that's what we're doing. It's all working as intended.

Turbine fail to see what this area is and should be and are actually losing a better market in their blinkered approach. This area had a huge newness to it for many a year, way forward thinking yet they failed to make it a success and now are bowing to the many in wanting yet another PvE zone. They have give Freeps yet another PvE zone

[Ellemere]

my point actually was comparing the pve raid at 8am uk time 2 pve raids in eve by freep players is totally out of line. the pve raid creepside in the morning is mainly 2 get maps its done at a time that not many freeps play so isn't an inconvenience 2 them.
but u miss my point but then again I miss urs when u say all u want is shiny stuff from ettens and not pvp...

I am in Ettens only for rank and items, I have always told people that as many were surprised to see me there. I have done everything else in game, the only incomplete part of my character's development is her progress in PvMP. I collect horses, so I need rank 12 to complete my collection and I want to be able to barter for first ages so I need rank 13. I am also a completionist so will probably end up going for rank 15 as well. I may have to force myself to accept some of those monster player kill deeds may remain incomplete.
However, and this is the more important point, just because I am not there because I enjoy PvPing does not make my efforts any less worthwhile than anyone else's. I have thrown myself fully into Ettens and try to make my contribution to the server's PvP action worthwhile.
But I do not accept that my PvEing, or anyone else's negatively affects the PvP to the extent that many claim it does. And I again do not accept player's attitudes towards those who choose to do the content provided.
Your first comment quoted above seems to suggest that the people who go to work during the day have no right to do the quests they pay for because it impacts how you would like to play in the Ettens. So they must do what you tell them but your negative impact on their game is fine...ok, interesting...

[BiteMarks]

BTW just wanted to add that I do totally sympathise with the early-morning low-rank Creep PvE argument. Red badge creeps are horrendously weak, even if they've had commendations spent on them from a higher-rank alt or freep. Personally I tend to leave red badge questing creeps alone if I find them. I felt bad for the poor R1 RVR poisoning the Hoardale who got rolled over by the Fraid last night - *that* was unlucky :/

There's not many freeps that leave low ranks alone anymore which is a shame. They are seen as easy meet now and even easier renown.

I'm afraid to now think like those freeps when I see a low rank freep at times

To put this in perspective, imagine coming to Ettenmoors on your freep with no LIs, quest reward armour and no virtues. That's how strong a R0 creep is. Freeps like that get summarily ejected from Fraids and told to go tool themselves up elsewhere. Lowbie creeps don't have that choice. I have every respect for those who stick it out and for the higher-rank creeps who help them (a helpfullness you'd not find on freep side).

A R0 freep will still make it tough for some creeps in here I feel, unfortunately

As for creeps helping low ranks and being friendly - I do remember my first few days/ranks as a pup and loved all the help I got. I always help low ranks if I can