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  1. #1751
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellemere View Post
    Apologies but i re-read both my posts and did not manage to find the part where i mentioned anyones name. No issue whatsoever with anyone being against pve/pvp or anything for that matter. I was highlighting that pve is now for many an important part of the Ettens as i have seen to be the case, and that it is absolutely wrong of people to tell those of us that pve that we are ruining the action.
    well u ARE makign action worse when creeps have outnumbered buff and still insist on taking more OPs - and then when we say in OOC that you shouldnt take all the OPs, you complain that you can do whatever u like ofc, which you can, but its selfish.
    First Marshal Areya. Hobbit Minstrel - Eldar.
    Kinship - The Illuminati.

  2. #1752
    well hopefully when helms deep is out and creep get op until freeps r geared the pve players will leave ettens cuz they will get bored of being zerged. plus hopefully the pve players will go back 2 pve in middle earth and leave the pvp players 2 pvp

    it isn't wrong 2 say pve players r ruining action if they r......

    I don't blame peeps 4 coming 2 the moors. the more the merrier if they have fun but action is worse here bcuz of it and it cud b better if peeps didn't pve so much

  3. #1753
    Quote Originally Posted by Erlo View Post

    Was in a small group and creeps were farming the few freeps. I don't mind that, but then Ekla says I'm switching sides. Bye. Boom, he was off and joined the farm on the other side. ### was my thought.
    Im often one of the creeps standing outside grams while the the freeps are camping it, only flip over when a freep raid is needed, or get asked by mates to log over for groups sometimes, or just playing on freep/creep side for the heck of it.
    Who cares about flipping, look how sh't Ettenmoors is..
    Last edited by Eklabondood; Aug 18 2013 at 03:15 PM.
    Exearus


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  4. #1754
    Quote Originally Posted by Deniorona View Post
    well hopefully when helms deep is out and creep get op until freeps r geared the pve players will leave ettens cuz they will get bored of being zerged. plus hopefully the pve players will go back 2 pve in middle earth and leave the pvp players 2 pvp

    it isn't wrong 2 say pve players r ruining action if they r......

    I don't blame peeps 4 coming 2 the moors. the more the merrier if they have fun but action is worse here bcuz of it and it cud b better if peeps didn't pve so much
    Okay here's what happens, Helms deep comes out and creeps are op so they farm and farm freeps for 6months because lolturbinebalance, now the people who are freeping at the moment use this time to join in the creep zerg and the forums are filled with WHY ARE CREEPS SO LAME, then a new update suddenly freeps are op because as stated lolturbinebalance everyone who was creeping suddenly freep time and it is now they who are farming creeps and now the forums are filled with WHY ARE FREEPS SO LAME. This is how lotro pvp has been for the last 5 years it continues in this vein.
    Making movies, Making music and Fighting round the world

  5. #1755
    Quote Originally Posted by Craven_EU_Eldar View Post
    Okay here's what happens, Helms deep comes out and creeps are op so they farm and farm freeps for 6months because lolturbinebalance, now the people who are freeping at the moment use this time to join in the creep zerg and the forums are filled with WHY ARE CREEPS SO LAME, then a new update suddenly freeps are op because as stated lolturbinebalance everyone who was creeping suddenly freep time and it is now they who are farming creeps and now the forums are filled with WHY ARE FREEPS SO LAME. This is how lotro pvp has been for the last 5 years it continues in this vein.
    ^^ truth.

    Six years, same discussions over and over. Freeps/creeps are OP/lame (all possible combinations at some point). Raid vs solo vs group (each side with entrenched views based on their own preconceptions and preferences, untroubled by reality). PvP vs PvE (as if the two could be separated in an open contested zone).

    It still has its moments. Proper raid vs raid fights can go on a looong while now. Higher rank creeps aren't just food, even if lower rank ones still are. There are still comedy villains on both sides. Raid leaders get appalling abuse but still come back - and we should be grateful they do because when there's no Sharnake/Blindings/Egis/Faerdo/Odovocar online, it's either GV/Tir or Grams/Lug (even more tedious than the old SB pew-pew used to be). Wargs still jump you in threes then moan when you run. 20 freeps still camp a red keep and whine at the creeps unwilling to come out. Freep raids *still* think it's a good idea to clear Lug ground floor and wait for the incoming creep army. Someone always pulls all the NPCs in Tol. And someone always takes the OP even when you ask them not to.

    Nothing ever changes. I've reached the point where I hope it never does. It feels sort of comfortable and familiar after so long on the same single map with everyone making the same points and having the same arguments over and over.
    Last edited by Tarmas_Eldar; Aug 18 2013 at 04:11 PM.
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  6. #1756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areya121 View Post
    well u ARE makign action worse when creeps have outnumbered buff and still insist on taking more OPs - and then when we say in OOC that you shouldnt take all the OPs, you complain that you can do whatever u like ofc, which you can, but its selfish.
    I don't make a habit of this myself. I don't consider myself to be a selfish player. However, if one or two freeps take 5 minutes to go flip an OP to complete a quest, it will take only 5 minutes more for one or two creeps to go flip it back. A small number of very vocal people act as though once the map is blue its a huge ordeal to get it red again. Well it isn't, not if the only thing the freep was there for was to complete a quest then move on. (People deliberately taking them to spoil whatever the raids are doing is another matter). But you can't blame people for doing the content Turbine gives them. Perhaps people should come out in great numbers to get Turbine to remove PvE from Ettens entirely, because while it's there, you can't tell other players they aren't allowed to do it and expect them to be OK with it.
    "The internet is a bubble dominated by the loudest, most unrepresentative voices; an infinitesimally small minority of a minority which, deaf to reason and the opinions of others, deludes itself that somehow it is the voice of the majority. An infinite echo chamber of shrieking, witless banality."

  7. #1757
    I just want to say I think Nurt is cute!

  8. #1758
    Quote Originally Posted by Erlo View Post
    I just want to say I think Nurt is cute!
    loooooooooooool!
    [img]http://bildr.no/image/Rk82Ty9F.jpeg[/img]
    -- First rank 12 warden on server --

  9. #1759
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellemere View Post
    I don't make a habit of this myself. I don't consider myself to be a selfish player. However, if one or two freeps take 5 minutes to go flip an OP to complete a quest, it will take only 5 minutes more for one or two creeps to go flip it back. A small number of very vocal people act as though once the map is blue its a huge ordeal to get it red again. Well it isn't, not if the only thing the freep was there for was to complete a quest then move on. (People deliberately taking them to spoil whatever the raids are doing is another matter). But you can't blame people for doing the content Turbine gives them. Perhaps people should come out in great numbers to get Turbine to remove PvE from Ettens entirely, because while it's there, you can't tell other players they aren't allowed to do it and expect them to be OK with it.
    for the sake of 100 inf wats the point seriously? as was suggested to u above why don't you come creep side when this happens and see if u feel like going out of grams? and wen u go to take an op u got freeps patrolling them , and wen u do take one its taken back moments later. well it is a big ordeal when ur out numbered and 4 blue ops lol so yes is hard to get the map red again or chance of fair fights , again try playing creep when its like this and then get back to us and see if u change your mind
    Mrmatty- R14 defiler

  10. #1760
    If freeps come creepside Mrmatty they mite like it as much as I do and wud stay and we wudnt have any freeps 2 kill

  11. #1761
    Quote Originally Posted by Craven_EU_Eldar View Post
    . . WHY ARE *** SO LAME . . .
    that,
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    Six years, same discussions over and over. Freeps/creeps are OP/lame (all possible combinations at some point).
    and that

    In the end of the day it is a big chunk of players themselves who make the pvp lame, most of times by looking for the ez-mode to get the biggest advance over the other side and if that group of ez-moders is big enough they do ruin the pvp for both sides.
    The end is near, the ring will melt, but not if I can help it!

  12. #1762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areya121 View Post
    well u ARE makign action worse when creeps have outnumbered buff and still insist on taking more OPs - and then when we say in OOC that you shouldnt take all the OPs, you complain that you can do whatever u like ofc, which you can, but its selfish.
    Your first in 39 posts that I completely agree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    Nothing ever changes. I've reached the point where I hope it never does. It feels sort of comfortable and familiar after so long on the same single map with everyone making the same points and having the same arguments over and over.
    Tarmas the Voice of Reason, the Neutral, the Reasonable - or whatever your name, just admit you are a raid monkey as well and would kindly advice any idiot introducing solo play to throw himself of Tol waterfall. I disagree we should just accept that some players are ruining the Ettenmoors. Obviously we can't change game mechanics, but you can change mentality. For example, it used to be almost a felony to camp Tir GY. It was only accepted for the brave Choco and Silen to gank freeps returning to the main fight. I remember how I got flamed on forums because I (and some tribemates) started camping as well. It even lead to a tribe rule that Tir GY camping wasn't allowed anymore. Nowadays, camping a GY is perfectly normal and no one would even think of complaining about it (at least not the same as before).

    What truly bothers me these days is the constant flipping of OPs and keeps. Only when necessary you should enter a keep. If we can change the mentality about camping GYs, why can't we change the mentality of unnecessary OP flipping? Why should raid fights so often be inside a keep? Do we enjoy looking at a 5,0 frame rate? Why not just fighting out in the open? Just ignore the OPs and let the other side take one when you notice there's some unbalance.

    Obviously some stuff should remain the same, I agree to that. I love calling Elgo an idiot, Faerdo a coward, Odo an easymoder. I don't call it a day before I've at least called an OOC airstrike on Stroum twice. Or what's a good PvMP evening without a raid leader at least threatening of disbanding? Seeing the red flashing text of a raidshout in your screen, urging me to r ape the RAT - those stuff shouldn't change, the disappointing mentality of some creeps and freeps should change.

    Don't get me wrong though, I like to see you return to the Ettenmoors. You are a great freep with a reasonable and neutral view. Killing a random freep gives me as much pleasure ad grinding slugs. Defeating a familiar name though, during a long lasting raid fight, is what makes PvMP fun for me.

  13. #1763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erlo View Post
    I just want to say I think Nurt is cute!
    Not top notch, but you are also cute Erlo

  14. #1764
    I dont mind if Tir or Lug are flipped alot, then i can hand in the oil and ore quest and hopefully rank up in a few years, and Tol as well specially the norborgs, u never know when they are gonna strike back!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/202240100001d4545/signature.png]Ramadad[/charsig]

  15. #1765
    Quote Originally Posted by Wardrat View Post
    Tarmas the Voice of Reason, the Neutral, the Reasonable - or whatever your name, just admit you are a raid monkey as well and would kindly advice any idiot introducing solo play to throw himself of Tol waterfall.
    I have always preferred raid or group fights in Ettenmoors. The raid vs raid pitched battle to the death isn't something I experience anywhere else in the game. Roaming around solo doing repeatable quests and fighting occasional enemies is exactly what I do when I'm doing a round of Warbands in Wildermore.

    However, I have a lot of time and sympathy for people whose vision of Ettenmoors is solo/duo play. Theirs is a much purer vision of PvP than mine, based on invidual skill, nervous unpredictability and one versus one self-testing. But I do wonder how long people with that sort of ambition for PvP in LOTRO can continue to swim against the tide. The region is obviously not set up for that sort of play. Turbine have always, quite clearly, seen Ettenmoors as a contested PvE zone for groups an raids. It has the largest selection of repeatable quests of any area in the game. It has 5 keeps and 4 outposts, none of which are intended to be soloed.

    The introduction of the bonuses for holding keeps and OPs makes this vision even more plain. Ironically the intention of the OP bonuses - as set out in the dev diary - was to spread out fights around the map rather than concentrating the zerg in one place, which is something the solo-duo fraternity have been asking for for years (demonstrating, yet again, that you need to be careful what you wish for in LOTRO since it might arrive in a way you hadn't anticipated at all).

    The buffs from OPs are excessive, but if they weren't then people wouldn't bother. And I have had some nice fights in OPs. Rankordietrying handed me my backside on a plate when he found me trying to take an OP solo. There have also been some epic raid vs raid fights, especially at ROP.

    The other thing about soloing is that not only is it not what Turbine have designed the zone for, it also just never happens. The chances of getting a true 1v1 fight are very very low. Most people roam in duos or trios if they roam at all. Both sides call out for airstrikes. Others will join in unasked. And that's even assuming there is any sort of balance between classes, which there isn't, even at similar ranks. And the difference in power between higher and lower ranks makes the latter just food for the former.

    Plus, of course, what most players mean when they say "solo" is "not grouped" even if they are running around with 20 other "solo" players. Seriosuly, what difference does it make if you are one of 20 solo players in a zerg or one of 20 in a raid? The only difference in fact is that 20 soloers do little other than run back and forth between Tir/GV or Lug/Grams. I once asked an adamanat "soloer" during a particularly tedious Grams camping session if this sort of play really was preferable to two raids crashing into each other and they had no convincing answer - they were simply anti-raid, without really being pro- anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wardrat View Post
    I disagree we should just accept that some players are ruining the Ettenmoors. Obviously we can't change game mechanics, but you can change mentality.
    Of course you can't. Don't be silly. Players are all making their own choices about how they play. Veterans defining rules isn't going to work, even if we could all agree what the rules were, which isn't going to happen either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wardrat View Post
    What truly bothers me these days is the constant flipping of OPs and keeps. Only when necessary you should enter a keep. If we can change the mentality about camping GYs, why can't we change the mentality of unnecessary OP flipping? Why should raid fights so often be inside a keep? Do we enjoy looking at a 5,0 frame rate? Why not just fighting out in the open? Just ignore the OPs and let the other side take one when you notice there's some unbalance.
    Raid fights happen inside a keep because one side perceives themselves to be at a disadvantage. The other day we had a standoff between Sharn (who wanted to fight in TR) and Egis (who wanted to fight in the open). Every keep raid battle I've been in just causes monstrous skill lag and delays (even when my framerate is high), so Egis wasn't willing to charge into a red keep. Sharn plainly perceived his raid to be at a disadvantage. There's nothing wrong with the "mentality" here, just raid leaders trying to do their best for their raid. I agree about fighting in the open but then I would do - freeps win more than they lose in open spaces.
    [CENTER]Tarmas Elf Champion R13 | Tarmeg Elf Guardian R6 | Tarmil 95 Elf Warden | Tarmun Elf Hunter R6 | Tarmot Elf Minstrel R6 | Tarmyr Elf Loremaster R6
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  16. #1766
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramadad View Post
    I dont mind if Tir or Lug are flipped alot, then i can hand in the oil and ore quest and hopefully rank up in a few years, and Tol as well specially the norborgs, u never know when they are gonna strike back!
    ^ Ooh Ram you pve #####!!

    I bloody hate pve in the moors. When the raid goes to DoF for buffs me and certainly Azogg will usually go make a cup of tea. I don't want dof, and I don't want the buffs they grant either. Yeh I really don't care for them at all. And as for Outpost swapping competitions, omg. Just omg how tedious is that?

    But I cannot see any way the current trends involving pve and outposts will change, unless turbine changes these dynamics themselves (which is unlikely).

    Personally, this is what I would do: Reduce number of Outposts to only 2. One would be in the currently positioned River Outpost, south of Elf camp. That would be recognised as the Creeps’ op. The other, to be newly positioned east of Orc camp, a little north east of the current Tir 2 map spot (aka Poor Map to Tirith Rhaw), in the base of the cliff, which would be the Freeps’ recognised op. Remove the other Outposts from the map.

    Also solve the problem by removing incentive. These 2 Outposts should serve 2 pretty unimportant functions. Grant a tiny Mastery Buff for each side (not enough to grant much significance to the fight), and chiefly for a daily quest, and a few Comms. Not infamy/Renown. Personally I just do not like points being rewarded for killing npcs and handing in a quest.

    Have these 2 new outposts far better defended than the current ones are as well. In fact, once an outpost flips they should stay flipped for at least an hour. Perhaps one-shotters should prowl outside, taking out everythig that comes near, and they would only disappear once the hour elapses. I dunno just thinking aloud, because the op problem is endemic and never-ending, across all servers I hasten to add.
    Last edited by Gwyndor; Aug 19 2013 at 09:09 AM.

  17. #1767
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    Devil's rating: 666 !



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  18. #1768
    when i came back to ettens in july my first thought was. OMG ### is this. Why are we pveing to pvp. There was a raid up. i joined in, we ran around taking keeps, ops, went in dof to take all buffs. 1 time in 1.5 hours we encountered the creeps. 1 fight then we got info creep raid disbanned.

    sorry but i fail to see what the "new" changes made for the pve. Buffs or no buffs, Why on earth do you PVE in a PVP zone? fine that u got npcs in keeps, but part that.. sigh...

    Solo or not solo in ettens. Doesnt matter! Its a pvp zone! Scrap the pve!!

    If u want to pve u got entire middle earth to do it in!

    i fail to see its a good think u can earn 1.5k renown from pveing in ettens. sure it will take u one hell of a time to rank up but you shouldn't get anything. Ren/inf should be purely from killing the opposite side!

  19. #1769
    I know people complain that im about in 6 man alot, but we had some really nice fights today, this afternoon up near the top 2 OP's, had some good action, and tonight in Tir. We wiped a lot and got a lot of renown, that is when action is fun. so thanks.
    First Marshal Areya. Hobbit Minstrel - Eldar.
    Kinship - The Illuminati.

  20. #1770
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    Quote Originally Posted by crockett1986 View Post
    for the sake of 100 inf wats the point seriously? as was suggested to u above why don't you come creep side when this happens and see if u feel like going out of grams? and wen u go to take an op u got freeps patrolling them , and wen u do take one its taken back moments later. well it is a big ordeal when ur out numbered and 4 blue ops lol so yes is hard to get the map red again or chance of fair fights , again try playing creep when its like this and then get back to us and see if u change your mind

    She is right, when i played warg I have soloed OP if I needed one or wanted OP red. I do same on burg. I dont see problem in taking OP back, which ever side it is.

  21. #1771
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    Too many orange messages in my chat log. I want to see more red texts, not orange. Other than that, I'd a great PvMP evening. Good raid fights, good leading on both sides and lots of kills for all of us. Big compliment for both sides for keeping the fight going, on lots of different spots all over the map.

    Sorry Shen for targeting you so often, not personal, your Elf ears just taste good and I like to kill Elves.

  22. #1772
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wardrat View Post
    Oh and Grish, shame your LM doesn't have sprint, it would have made fleeing from battle even easier.
    I don't have a LM ..



    Like my little brother Carcharoth I am loyal to the Lord.
    I don't always eat cake, but when I do, it's delicious.

  23. #1773
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakastevihannes View Post
    I don't have a LM ..
    I don't have a LM either. I think LOTRO Alt Finder is bugged for both of us.




    Edit: cropped the image.
    Last edited by Wardrat; Aug 22 2013 at 12:18 PM.

  24. #1774
    Cheers for the rvr tonight!

    Good fun with some nice fights at ops and open field!

    Hope we can muster a full raid next time so we can have even more fun!

    Cheers to creep leader for coming out to play, abit

  25. #1775
    Firstly, i want to thank Shapatgul / Greyheaded for help leading creeps (He did 99% of job), very nice, and I will do my best to make him never go back to wrong side. ))

    Second, thanks to everyone that joined our 12 man first, than full raid.

    And the last thing i would like to say - Tnx to ppl that overcame their differences in opinions, you guys know who Im talking about, and joining our raid later on.

    Cheers,
    Brekka
    Chieftain Mreza, Kokosovo mleko Chieftain (Rank 12 weaver)
    Brekka Crixus of Eldar, Potomci Numenora, Evernight (Ex Lazareva vojska)

    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

 

 
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