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  1. #2651
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwyndor View Post
    I have no idea what HD will do to lotro.

    Many tremendous players that I've known over the years have left. A few remain, scattered here and there, just as discontent as I am. Some play with me on creepside now, the last trial and true challenge that is left in the game (lol to Odo who seems to believe the opposite!). Even that is broken, bugged, and underdeveloped - a source of much potential, horribly neglected by Turbine. But who knows what's next? I hate to be a pessimist, but I fear the end for lotro is near...
    With Elder scrolls online in the mists I fear your right Mr Fang, many great players have left due to lack of content and this mybe too little to late. I dont think I'll be staying for the foreseeable future with Elder coming out but will keep Lotro as a side line to keep in contact with old friends and the odd battle.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2022401000007b9ca/signature.png]Blindings[/charsig]

  2. #2652
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    Ah yes..... SoA.... the good old days when not every class had to be a hybrid dps train with 1001 survival skills
    When raids were hard enough to let u wipe if peeps didnt played their class propperly or didnt follow the raid leader's orders.

    Now peeps just faceroll their way up to 85 and act like soloers in a group because they never learned to play AS a group.
    If the game is so easy that peeps just can stand still pressing 3 buttons to kill a target, u prob shouldnt be suprised that following the rat and following the marked targets, while using tons of unused skills, is like rocket sience to them.
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i255532.iris.fhict.nl/sierra/signature.png[/IMG]


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  3. #2653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blindings View Post
    With Elder scrolls online in the mists I fear your right Mr Fang, many great players have left due to lack of content and this mybe too little to late. I dont think I'll be staying for the foreseeable future with Elder coming out but will keep Lotro as a side line to keep in contact with old friends and the odd battle.
    I never before thought that there would be a single game that could kill Lotro, but with the HD trainwreck just around the corner, and not many months more until ESO comes, it just might prove me wrong.
    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8C8nLy2okg[/url] Saruman 6-man
    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj4h-CF9log[/url] Warden Survival
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  4. #2654
    Dont be so pesimistic ppl. Afaik we are getting what we wanted. Freeps are getting in order, some nerfed to be normal, some buffed to get a challenge. We are not gonna depend on OP buffs (as someone said). The last thing we need to be fixed is lag. And i think they will soon recognise the threat of leaving it as it is. Hobbit is coming in 1 month, that means if they do their job in marketing fine, alot of new players will head our way.
    Im with lotro till the end, if its tomorrow or in 10 years. The thing that keeps bringing me back to it is that feeling- when you make first time a different class character, man, in Archet... feel of something new. And Combe, Marches, Staddle... Reminds me of the kid who started Lotro 5-6 years ago.
    So - i love LOTRO and all the ppl i met in this game. Even Odo.
    Soon i might be the last man standing in my tribe or kin. But even than, you will see the noble name of Lazareva vojska and the terrifying name of Kokosovo mleko.
    So.. no more MrNiceGuy, im going back to being a villain, hope you all het one shotted in the middle of x roads, cause of some bug turbine didnt fixed.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by BrekkaSrbenda; Nov 12 2013 at 07:38 AM.
    Chieftain Mreza, Kokosovo mleko Chieftain (Rank 12 weaver)
    Brekka Crixus of Eldar, Potomci Numenora, Evernight (Ex Lazareva vojska)

    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  5. #2655
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrekkaSrbenda View Post
    Freeps are getting in order
    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8C8nLy2okg[/url] Saruman 6-man
    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj4h-CF9log[/url] Warden Survival
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  6. #2656
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    I wasn't part of recent freep raids but my observation from playing every day from Jul-Oct this year (after an 18 month break) is that the standard of play on freep side was, on the whole, extraordinarily low.
    This is to be expected. Oryette herself has been a rare sight on the battlefield as of late. As a result the freeps are demoralised and poorly organised, and the creeps grow in confidence and power, fueled by her absence. The very foundations of Glan Vraig are trembling in fear. Where is the light in the darkness? Will she return before the Free Peoples of Middle-earth are overrun? Pray to the Valar, for it is all you have left... for now.

  7. #2657
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrekkaSrbenda View Post
    Dont be so pesimistic ppl. Afaik we are getting what we wanted. Freeps are getting in order, some nerfed to be normal, some buffed to get a challenge.
    I highly doubt this is the case. It would really surprise me if Ettens is balanced after HD. There's never balance after a huge update. The first months are always boring. I just hope that the action and balance returns sooner than after the previous updates.


    A bit late, but I would also like to add something to the freep-creep community discussion and raid play. I think the main difference is the available player pool. If you look at a creep raid, about 75% of the players are the same ones that were in the raid the day before - and will be the same ones the day after. Every day a large part of the craid plays together and it improves the teamwork. You get to know each other better, it's more social, easy-going and raids generally run smoothly. On freepside, there are a lot more "casual" players. Freeps that come to the ettens a few days a week. The player pool is much larger than on creepside. If you look at a freep raid, roughly 50% or maybe even less were also in that raid the day before. So you don't play with the same people day after day. Due to this, freep raids these days seem to look less well coordinated. It also explains why most people consider creep side as a more easy-going and social community. It's simply a smaller group with people that know each other pretty well.

    I hope that with HD, lots of the old-timers freeps return. I think it's essential if the players in a raid know each other and the atmosphere is easy-going and fun. When that's the case, better teamwork and a smooth run will come automatically. With the current freep player pool, it's hard to make a raid where the teamwork is perfect. It's impossible to create a freep community where the players know each other very well when there are too many casual freep players who visit the Ettens only once in a while. Either the freep player pool should shrink and have more frequent Etten players instead of newbie casuals, or the old-timers should return. Or both. But I guess we will have to wait a couple of months before we will find out (as I said earlier, first months after an update are always a pain).

  8. #2658
    but...but....but.....im an old time freep player that now plays 100% on creepside in moors now...u want me 2 return 2 freep?!?!

  9. #2659
    Quote Originally Posted by Deniorona View Post
    but...but....but.....im an old time freep player that now plays 100% on creepside in moors now...u want me 2 return 2 freep?!?!
    This just highlights Uz's previous point about the player base Naughty. Many of the hardcore end gamers have left freepside. Some of those have gone on to other games and some of them have turned to the last challenge that LotRO offers: Creepside.
    Goatz - Bringer of Milk, Lover of Mreza, Sniffer of Hairy Toes

  10. #2660
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    Indeed mate. And Deni, you're not going anywhere my dear! <3

    Bottom line: Ettenmoors IS end-game content now, true end-game content, the hardest and the best challenge, whatever side you play on. I seriously don't care anymore which way Turbine wants to spin it. But I care not to run Sambrog again and again and again, to grind out this reward or that. I cannot believe that so many still do this, jumping through the same old hoops – running like rats through the same old maze, over and over and over again just for slightly better piece of cheese each time.

    I first ran Sambrog as a level 18 I think it was, probably in May 2007, and here it still is, serving as end-game today, but with better cheese. Can you believe that? Turbine it seems has turned its back on developing fresh, new, challenging end-game content. That was what honed, drilled, and fine-tuned the players of the past to be skilful and experienced contributors to the hardest content scenarios.

    I was a hardcore raider since the Rift, and now raids are gone. Gone. Dead. Done. So are the raiders, and the raiding kins. Lotro in its death throes. Epic-battles I've heard are just Skirmishes 2.0. That is what we're going to get. From what's I've seen of them, and what people are saying, I'm not that encouraged. Nor should anyone who plays freepside. The next generation of freep PvPers will turn out to be weaker than ever before.

  11. #2661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirobelle View Post
    Some of those have gone on to other games and some of them have turned to the last challenge that LotRO offers: Creepside.
    Where is the challenge in running around in a 40-50+ group and steamroll stuff 99% of the time as lots of creeps do? Im sorry but playing creep side per se is not a challenge, its all about your play style, playing in small groups on creep side fighting "even" number freep groups, 1 vs 1 (you get the idea), is a challenge, joining the steamroller is not.
    [center][color=yellow]The Mellowship/Eldar[/color][/center]

  12. #2662
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeonath View Post
    Where is the challenge in running around in a 40-50+ group and steamroll stuff 99% of the time as lots of creeps do? Im sorry but playing creep side per se is not a challenge, its all about your play style, playing in small groups on creep side fighting "even" number freep groups, 1 vs 1 (you get the idea), is a challenge, joining the steamroller is not.
    Aeo there was a time freeps did nothing but steam roll creeps. didn't c u in those raids so mayb u was on a break. wasn't so long ago either about 3-4 months?. a few freeps have disappeared from moors since then cuz creeps started 2 fite back and they cudnt cope with it.

    steam rolling happens on both sides occasionally depending on numbers etc and even numbers never work now with freeps hitting like trains u know that. watch the films and c how *even* numbered creeps n freeps were and freeps still won! ./funnybone deactivated

    this week ive been surprised at the lack of numbers on freepside esp as this will b the last week we can have some battles b4 we all have helms deep or lvl cap depending on if u bought it or not 2 play with.

  13. #2663
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    Im not saying freeps dont steamroll, just that there is no challenge/skill involved in it
    [center][color=yellow]The Mellowship/Eldar[/color][/center]

  14. #2664
    Quote Originally Posted by Deniorona View Post
    a few freeps have disappeared from moors since then cuz creeps started 2 fite back and they cudnt cope with it.
    I realise this explanation suits creep folklore and morale, but I have a different view.

    We should be clear what we mean by "freeps" and "creeps", both on forums and in casual OOC banter. There is a regular core of 20-30 who play entirely or predominantly on freep and 20-30 who play entirely or predominantly on creep. We could all name most of those players easily. There is another 20-30 who flip sides depending on what side seems to be winning. It always makes me chuckle when one or other OOC fills up with "where did they all go?" and "one wipe and they disband!" when the answer is - look around you, all those missing opponents have suddenly materialised on your side, as if by magic!

    Lots of the flippers aren't even subtle about it - they have freeps and creeps named in the same style! "Sorry, got to go help kin" they type after 1 or 2 wipes, then next fight it's 'oh look whose joined the winning zerg!'

    Just to be clear here - since I'm currently pootling around on creep - there's no problem with playing both sides for the variety. What I'm talking about is flipping back and forth *on the night* based on who is perceived to be on top. It's one reason, btw, that freep leaders can be so risk averse - 2 wipes and half the raid will vanish, along with all the soloers and supporting kin groups, with a good proportion turning up on creep 5-10 mins later to make the fight even more impossibly imbalanced. The reverse situation also happens of course, the difference being that the 'real' (ie full-time) creeps are more likely to stick it out because they don't have Sambrog/ToO/BoD etc as an alternative to getting their faces planted in Ettenmoors soil.
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  15. #2665
    true tarmas but I was specifically talking about a few freeps that I know that definitely don't play creep that have disappeared. not gonna name them cuz well that's against turbine policy.....

  16. #2666
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeonath View Post
    Where is the challenge in running around in a 40-50+ group and steamroll stuff 99% of the time as lots of creeps do? Im sorry but playing creep side per se is not a challenge, its all about your play style, playing in small groups on creep side fighting "even" number freep groups, 1 vs 1 (you get the idea), is a challenge, joining the steamroller is not.
    What are you talking about?! Fact is that i didnt saw a freep solo for 3months now, and i dont wanna comment how long there wasnt one that attacked me 1 vs 1 on open area. (Not saying anyone is afraid of me or something, just that freeps rarely or never go to ettens alone).
    Or that is the cause of - we having maps and always call for "airstrike"? Hm?

    First example is your kin groups (atm just eva and slat (:* i still dont love you slat, you are ugly with that pink handbag)) but few months ago WoMendir and his army of "save my precious a$$, i must live" were zerging everything around.

    In last few weeks, for some reason freeps are not leaving the safe house, leaving us all with one coloured red map, and just leaving with a raid of 12/24. To do what? Hm? "Steamroll"?

    Nothing personal, i dont even know who you are, just dont tell that creep side is steamrolling something, that is absolutely not true.
    Chieftain Mreza, Kokosovo mleko Chieftain (Rank 12 weaver)
    Brekka Crixus of Eldar, Potomci Numenora, Evernight (Ex Lazareva vojska)

    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  17. #2667
    Quote Originally Posted by deniorona View Post
    true tarmas but i was specifically talking about a few freeps that i know that definitely don't play creep that have disappeared. Not gonna name them cuz well that's against turbine policy.....
    i want names on my desk by tomorrow morning! And bring me nutter and goatz, im ##### tonight.
    Chieftain Mreza, Kokosovo mleko Chieftain (Rank 12 weaver)
    Brekka Crixus of Eldar, Potomci Numenora, Evernight (Ex Lazareva vojska)

    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  18. #2668
    Quote Originally Posted by BrekkaSrbenda View Post
    i want names on my desk by tomorrow morning! And bring me nutter and goatz, im ##### tonight.
    haha mmm u nutter and goatz sounds like a fun nite 4 me then!

  19. #2669
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeonath View Post
    Im not saying freeps dont steamroll, just that there is no challenge/skill involved in it
    when they have numbers I totally agree

    but the majority of time unlike some that think less skills = easy play mode it is more of a challenge 2 keep heals up with less skills 2 choose from and most have cds and less dps skills 2 get summit down quick.

    until peeps reach 95 and have numbers I wud predict a few steam rolls coming freeps way over next few weeks after Monday

  20. #2670
    It is very frustrating leading freeps atm.

    Outcome of first fight means everything. If we win that one i know it Will be an easier 1-2 hours To follow.

    Take an example.. We got full raid and 10 followers, vs lets say 40 creeps. If we charge a keep and wipe. With the next fight i Will have maybe 3 followers and we all of a Sudden we got 50 creeps on track. 27 vs 50 Will end in yet an Other wipe. At this point i Should just disbann.. Or even after the first wipe tbh... Because if we wipe its a lost case. Same for creeps ofc... Through i think the core creep player base is Birger Then freep so you arent hit as hard.. Imo. I might be wrong..

    I only hope They increase the flipping cd again, so that people hopefully stay on one side...

    To many Times' do we see people not flipp only 1 time per night but 3-4 Times'...

    Rvr atm is close To impossible.. For me its not rvr its zerg vs zerg. First To win Will own the evening...

    Pitty
    [url=http://postimage.org/][img]http://s29.postimg.org/jhgasj377/image.jpg[/img][/url]

  21. #2671
    I don't think every1 flips. some just go do something else ingame.
    if the action was bad that's wot I used 2 do for an hour or so then return. but even now theres not much that interests me ingame on freepside so I either stay creep or go watch a movie.
    it will all change next week.
    gonna dust off freeps myself and lvl up!

  22. #2672
    Quote Originally Posted by BrekkaSrbenda View Post
    What are you talking about?! Fact is that i didnt saw a freep solo for 3months now, and i dont wanna comment how long there wasnt one that attacked me 1 vs 1 on open area. (Not saying anyone is afraid of me or something, just that freeps rarely or never go to ettens alone).
    Or that is the cause of - we having maps and always call for "airstrike"? Hm?
    Maybe you are blind <3
    Stroumfita rank 12 rk Eldar
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/202240000001f57a1/01006/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  23. #2673
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeonath
    Im not saying freeps dont steamroll, just that there is no challenge/skill involved in it

    I completely agree. There's absolutely no skill in steamrolling and to be honest there's no fun in it. I have a policy; I won't make a raid unless I deem that it's necessary. Whether that means that I've been told freeps have a raid and there's large numbers on track or it's clear from what's in front of me there's a fraid sized number of people grouped up and ratting targets. If I see creeps getting steamrolled/zerged/farmed then I will open up a raid but I'll try to keep it balanced. Only 12-13 freeps around? I'm not going to fill the raid, I'll keep it even.

    What is a bit frustrating recently is what happens when you do raid up on creepside. It's become very, very easy of late for a craid with good ranked players in it to roll over a fraid at any given place. I'm not saying we never lose: Sauron himself know's I've led creepies to their deaths But this stems from what we've been talking about above and the lack of end-game-grouping-ability of many freep players (please do not read this as "all freeps are bad players" that's not what I'm saying. There are many good players on freep side) It seems that freep raids are undisciplined groups of people. You find many targets hitting their own things, the whole fraid can be very spread out, people just dancing around in blight completely oblivious to it's effects and most of all, the worst symptom I've seen recently, running away! This was evidenced a few nights ago (can't remember when sorry, I'm sat at home playing lotro all day every day waiting for an operation: it all blurs into one!) I believe the fraid was led by Rokkin (but it may not have been and this is not an attack on him or his lead style, or anyone's lead style for that matter). I managed to get my raid in between GV and LC where the fraid was and met up with them just west of lc3. The numbers where about even. The fraid balled up and so I charged my lot straight into it. About half the fraid fled. We killed everything that tried to stand and fight and caught a lot of the runners too.
    I was absolutely amazed at what I'd seen. Why run? Why not even try and fight, even if you lose? And most of all, Why leave your friends and raid members to die? Aren't we here to fight? Shouldn't this have been a good fight with about even numbers in open ground with no npcs to bother us?

    That is not an isolated event either and I'm sad to say it. It seems that many of the new breed just aren't prepared for an enemy that will give them a challenge and if a target isn't blown up in 3 hits it sends some freeps running for the hills. This isn't fun for us though either. We want a good fight. We don't want to stand around bored waiting for a fraid group to crash into and the fight be over in 2 minutes.

    Again, this is not an attack on fraid leaders. It is a commentary on the state of lotro, it's development and the dumbing down of content over the last 4 years. In fact - I said that night to my raid that I could understand fraid leaders getting frustrated and that if it had been the other way round - Creeps in my raid running and wiping the whole group - I would have disbanded. It must be very, very frustrating to deal with these kind of actions as a raid leader and I whole-heartedly sympathise.

    So to finish off and try to veer back to the first point: Steamrolling is not skillful, but there are many reasons why it's happening and it's not neccesarily creeps hunting for an easy time. I can only speak for myself on this point but anyone who's been in one of my raids will know that I will not take a group to GV and farm solos. I try to keep things even and interesting. Also the flippers out there who pick and choose which side to fight on based on which one will be easiest are ruining PvMP and I would love to see a campaign to bring back the flip timer - make it at least 1 hour I say!.
    Goatz - Bringer of Milk, Lover of Mreza, Sniffer of Hairy Toes

  24. #2674
    Quote Originally Posted by Deniorona View Post
    haha mmm u nutter and goatz sounds like a fun nite 4 me then!
    Slime party round the back of DG? I'm in!
    Goatz - Bringer of Milk, Lover of Mreza, Sniffer of Hairy Toes

  25. #2675
    There are many reasons combined to that ettens has taken the turn it has the last months...

    "end-gamers" gone creep side. Flippers, Organization, development of the game in general.

    But dont forget the fact that it for pve most content now days are DPS! the more the merrier. Nuke nuke nuke and you will be fine.

    Abit of this situation we got in etten on freep side as well. Everyone wanna dps. People more or less frag hunt these days. Healer are dps traited, captains are. Funny thing is that many "dps" classes do not trait full dps....

    Take champs as an example.. What creeps calls bubble boys... We need the damn bubbles because selfheals we cant. ( Yes dire need, trait it and its 5 min cd) but then again you choose to go trait it... A dps class that has to think defensive due to that the classes that should take care of the dps are dps traited......

    Let dps be dps, let healers be healers, support be support. How the hell are we to raid if people dont have a specific job to do? And actually do it!

    the biggest difference i see as an old raidleader that led raids from lvl 50-65 is that today you cant tell someone else in the raid. Dude please go specc this or that. This is your job during this fight etc. 4 years ago you did listen to the raidleader and you followed. No matter what he/her said you did it. You trusted the leader and tried your best to what he asked of you.

    It was a group feeling. you were a part of something and that made it fun....

    today if you tell someone could you please trait this or that they would maybe do it. Or they dont like healing so they wanna stay red traited.... 5-10 min later they have left the raid.... 5 min more you see them on creep side. ( sure Deni not all. But we got a standard 10-15 that flipp daily from side to side. Enough to make a difference)

    Just imagine creeps that if all of a sudden you got 4 defilers in your raid that decides they dont want to heal but they wanna dps... What do you tell them? so logg a dps then... What do you think all creep dps would do if there was no healers around? Run full dps? or would they put on more mitigation traits etc? For me its natural u would.

    What do you prefer, decent dps or dead super dps....

    Loads of factors makes it Extremely hard to motivate freep leaders to actually lead..
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