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  1. #1
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    Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    I'm thinking of just diving in an writing a couple of plugins ... but, before I begin, I'd like to know if the API supports access to the following data:

    For a boss mod style addon, can the API support:

    1. Capturing an event that would place boss text in the chat window. For instance, if a boss says "I'm going to gnaw your bones", I would like to be able to capture when the boss says something, parse it for certain keywords, perhaps in this case the word "Gnaw", and then put up a large warning in the middle of the screen directing the player to some action to take, perhaps "Boss about to AoE, move away from him".

    2. Can the API capture what area one is located in? For instance, within some distance from a specific boss ... or the name of the area ... or location via X/Y coordinates, so that the addon can know which boss the player is currently near, and activate that section of the addon for warnings.

    For a gear switching type addon:

    I've read the API, and apparently the API can access the backpack. Which is good. But, can it,

    1. Equip gear from a specific backpack slot (or a quickslot, created for this purpose, think gear profiles) without any mouse interaction, purely in code? For example, if I have two or four items in specific backpack slots (or quickslots), with a single mouse click on a UI button, can the code then equip all two, three or four of those items?

    2. And if I have an addon that allows a player to create, let's say, up to five gear profiles, each profile containing upto five pieces of gear, can the API save the quickslot data (what gear is stored in each profiles quickslots) to some location, so that when reloading the addon at some future time, they do not have to repopulate their quickslots. (I have looked at my Palantir addon, and cannot seem to locate a file that stores the information contained in the 4 quickslot items that the addon uses.)

    (To be honest, I've never got the quickslot potion buttons to work in Palantir. They only show up during setup, and I can place potions in them, but I have never had them appear during actual combat. Even though I have relevant options clicked.)

    Thanks.

    (For my questions above, if you could supply the relevant API classes to delve into further, that would be another big help.)

  2. #2
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    1. and 2. no, you can't do that

    1. can't do that either
    2. this you can do, it is possible to save "preferences" (though I'd expect weird stuff happening if some items are missing from the backpack) the methods for this are in the Turbine.PluginData class
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    As if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.
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    Kári was a little Dwarf. / Smaller than you or me. / And wherever Kári went / He took his axe… or three.

  3. #3
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    That is too bad. WoW allows all that functionality in their LUA implementation.

  4. #4
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiot View Post
    That is too bad. WoW allows all that functionality in their LUA implementation.
    most of the stuff that isn't in the LOTRO LUA functionality is because WoW does allow it in their functionality. It's purposfully designed to not let you emulate a lot of the wow "make raids automated clicking in response to popups and then parse lists of numbers to see how we did" as much as possible.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychobabbleJJ View Post
    most of the stuff that isn't in the LOTRO LUA functionality is because WoW does allow it in their functionality. It's purposfully designed to not let you emulate a lot of the wow "make raids automated clicking in response to popups and then parse lists of numbers to see how we did" as much as possible.
    I'm sorry, but the WoW boss helper add-ons are mostly there to make certain "bad things" more apparent, rather than having to try to read small text scrolling up the chat window (while you're also looking at 3 other places on a large monitor). They make use of our peripheral vision (which small text in the chat window, does not.)

    If rather than the Boss White Text being in the chat window, it was large text (that faded out after a few seconds) appeared in the center of your screen in a large white font (which is all I wanted to do for an add-on), I'm sure that small change would be very welcomed by the community.

    These add-ons don't actually fight the boss for you. Skill and gear are still required.

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychobabbleJJ View Post
    "make raids automated clicking in response to popups and then parse lists of numbers to see how we did" as much as possible.
    Raids in LotRO are no different, except we have to strain to notice and read tiny text in the chat window before we click our response to some piece of text the boss shouts.
    Last edited by Chiot; Apr 04 2011 at 05:11 AM.

  6. #6
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiot View Post
    If rather than the Boss White Text being in the chat window, it was large text (that faded out after a few seconds) appeared in the center of your screen in a large white font (which is all I wanted to do for an add-on), I'm sure that small change would be very welcomed by the community.
    There is an option to make the text appear above the boss's head, easy to spot unless you're really looking away.
    Re-ni-AN-nen - strayed (ppt. of renia- 'to stray')
    Aeled Reniannen, Defender of Middle-earth ~ Nendhiniel, Forge-Warden : Captain and Wardenette from [EN-RP] Laurelin
    Fluffrash, Blade of Barashish ~ Nathraen, Conqueror of Towers : Warg Puppy and Spider Tailor from the darker side thereof
    Faradwen, Swift-Arrow : Huntress from [EN-RE] Landroval


    As if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.
    ~~~~~
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  7. #7
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychobabbleJJ View Post
    It's purposfully designed to not let you emulate a lot of the wow "make raids automated clicking in response to popups"...
    Nothing like that is even remotely possible in WoW.

  8. #8
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiot View Post
    I'm thinking of just diving in an writing a couple of plugins ... but, before I begin, I'd like to know if the API supports access to the following data:

    For a boss mod style addon, can the API support:

    1. Capturing an event that would place boss text in the chat window. For instance, if a boss says "I'm going to gnaw your bones", I would like to be able to capture when the boss says something, parse it for certain keywords, perhaps in this case the word "Gnaw", and then put up a large warning in the middle of the screen directing the player to some action to take, perhaps "Boss about to AoE, move away from him".

    2. Can the API capture what area one is located in? For instance, within some distance from a specific boss ... or the name of the area ... or location via X/Y coordinates, so that the addon can know which boss the player is currently near, and activate that section of the addon for warnings.

    For a gear switching type addon:

    I've read the API, and apparently the API can access the backpack. Which is good. But, can it,

    1. Equip gear from a specific backpack slot (or a quickslot, created for this purpose, think gear profiles) without any mouse interaction, purely in code? For example, if I have two or four items in specific backpack slots (or quickslots), with a single mouse click on a UI button, can the code then equip all two, three or four of those items?

    2. And if I have an addon that allows a player to create, let's say, up to five gear profiles, each profile containing upto five pieces of gear, can the API save the quickslot data (what gear is stored in each profiles quickslots) to some location, so that when reloading the addon at some future time, they do not have to repopulate their quickslots. (I have looked at my Palantir addon, and cannot seem to locate a file that stores the information contained in the 4 quickslot items that the addon uses.)

    (To be honest, I've never got the quickslot potion buttons to work in Palantir. They only show up during setup, and I can place potions in them, but I have never had them appear during actual combat. Even though I have relevant options clicked.)

    Thanks.

    (For my questions above, if you could supply the relevant API classes to delve into further, that would be another big help.)
    1. This could be done via chat box logging of "/say", and an external application (although if you were gonna do this, you should extend Combat Analysis instead of making another external app).

    2. Not yet, maybe never.

    3. No. I doubt they're ever gonna allow something to happen with no mouse clicking involved.

    4. I think that should work, although I haven't looked into quickslots much.

    The API is still very limited at the moment. Parsing chat box (combat) logs with an external app allows you to do some semi-interesting stuff at least.
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  9. #9
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Quote Originally Posted by Reniannen View Post
    There is an option to make the text appear above the boss's head, easy to spot unless you're really looking away.
    That would be fantastic ... where is this option located?

    Or is this the bubble text thing? And not only will it do it for the boss, but everyone else in the area fighting the boss.

  10. #10
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Quote Originally Posted by Evendale View Post
    3. No. I doubt they're ever gonna allow something to happen with no mouse clicking involved.
    There would be a mouse-click involved ... the mouse-click would signal the add-on to equip all the gear in a specific gear profile.

  11. #11
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiot View Post
    If rather than the Boss White Text being in the chat window, it was large text (that faded out after a few seconds) appeared in the center of your screen in a large white font (which is all I wanted to do for an add-on), I'm sure that small change would be very welcomed by the community.

    These add-ons don't actually fight the boss for you. Skill and gear are still required.
    Much like the argument for buff bars.... when, say, you're so close to the Balrog in the Rift that you can only see his but (or other bosses that are just as tall, if not taller), then you HAVE to rely upon the chat log to see the callouts.

    Sometimes the bosses have voice overs, other times they do not. If they don't, and the boss does a callout that appears above his head, and you can only see his butt, you're probably going to miss it.

    For situations like THOSE, I would like to apply the BuffBar logic to the boss fight - if the only change is to take what the boss is saying and turn it into a billboard so people can react to it, why not?

    Personally, I'd rather a Dev do that for us, because 90% (or better) of the things you need to react to are handled extremely well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reniannen View Post
    There is an option to make the text appear above the boss's head, easy to spot unless you're really looking away.
    Oooh! Do tell, where is this option?
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  12. #12
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Oooh! Do tell, where is this option?
    Somewhere in the options (Social?) there is a toggle for speech bubbles.
    Re-ni-AN-nen - strayed (ppt. of renia- 'to stray')
    Aeled Reniannen, Defender of Middle-earth ~ Nendhiniel, Forge-Warden : Captain and Wardenette from [EN-RP] Laurelin
    Fluffrash, Blade of Barashish ~ Nathraen, Conqueror of Towers : Warg Puppy and Spider Tailor from the darker side thereof
    Faradwen, Swift-Arrow : Huntress from [EN-RE] Landroval


    As if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.
    ~~~~~
    Kári was a little Dwarf. / Smaller than you or me. / And wherever Kári went / He took his axe… or three.

  13. #13
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Thanks, guys!

    When I enter an instance or raid, I set my /say speech to 23 px and bright orange. It really helps to notice important boss speech during a fight.

  14. #14

    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiot View Post
    That would be fantastic ... where is this option located?

    Or is this the bubble text thing? And not only will it do it for the boss, but everyone else in the area fighting the boss.
    i never enable anything on option panel and in raids warnings from bosses appear with giant white words on screen...one perfect example is balrog from OD. i hope that function: boss say this so turn your back to him, or boss say this go far or boss say that no one can do melee damage and so on. well if you are a good player you know already what bosses phrases mean and you know what you need to do. the phraes always appear above bosses you dont need to see chat window. dont amke this a easy game like wow please. as a LM i need to have a eye in many places and bosses warning until now never was a problem. hope debuff/buffbars never have the fellow function too...is part of your skills to pay attention in who have want buff or debuff, otherwise this will be very boring and easy.

  15. #15
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Quote Originally Posted by Aghaborn View Post
    i never enable anything on option panel and in raids warnings from bosses appear with giant white words on screen...one perfect example is balrog from OD. i hope that function: boss say this so turn your back to him, or boss say this go far or boss say that no one can do melee damage and so on. well if you are a good player you know already what bosses phrases mean and you know what you need to do. the phraes always appear above bosses you dont need to see chat window. dont amke this a easy game like wow please. as a LM i need to have a eye in many places and bosses warning until now never was a problem. hope debuff/buffbars never have the fellow function too...is part of your skills to pay attention in who have want buff or debuff, otherwise this will be very boring and easy.
    However, with said boss, there's no way to know if he's making a scripted attack, and react to it, unless you log it, and the tank is watching the chat log, simply because it's extremely difficult to see his head when you're in melee range.

    I've more interest in what the boss is doing, and then learning the appropriate reaction, rather than having some plugin tell me what to do.
    Last edited by Almagnus1; Apr 06 2011 at 05:45 PM.
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  16. #16
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Some text does come up in the middle of the screen, but most stuff doesn't.

    Having "/say" over bosses heads doesn't help most of the time (for melees anyway) unless you're waaay zoomed out, because bosses are usually pretty tall.....

    I actually might get around to adding this kind of functionality to CA some day - it'd be super simple really.
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  17. #17

    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    everyone should play with zoom out. dont exist many giant bosses so is very easy to see the warning phrases above his heads. the biggest i ever seen was OD balrog and for that turbine have put a giant white letters on midle of screen. and i repeat again, everyone in my opinion should always play in zoom out otherwise how can see what happen on his backs???

  18. #18

    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    However, with said boss, there's no way to know if he's making a scripted attack, and react to it, unless you log it, and the tank is watching the chat log, simply because it's extremely difficult to see his head when you're in melee range.

    I've more interest in what the boss is doing, and then learning the appropriate reaction, rather than having some plugin tell me what to do.
    if you zoom out is very simple to see the warning above his head.

  19. #19
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Quote Originally Posted by Aghaborn View Post
    if you zoom out is very simple to see the warning above his head.
    I don't like playing full zoomed out in PvE content... especially when there's low ceilings, because the camera does some rather annoying things. I don't remember what the zoom was on the Balrog, I'll check for it next time.

    In PvMP, on the other hand, yes, the camera's at full zoom.

    I'm odd like that XD
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  20. #20
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Does the API have a function to copy into variables how much gold, silver and copper my character has?

  21. #21
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiot View Post
    Does the API have a function to copy into variables how much gold, silver and copper my character has?
    Nope, as of now the API has access to your backpack, your vitals (morale/power and buffs/debuffs) and your name, race, class and level.
    Re-ni-AN-nen - strayed (ppt. of renia- 'to stray')
    Aeled Reniannen, Defender of Middle-earth ~ Nendhiniel, Forge-Warden : Captain and Wardenette from [EN-RP] Laurelin
    Fluffrash, Blade of Barashish ~ Nathraen, Conqueror of Towers : Warg Puppy and Spider Tailor from the darker side thereof
    Faradwen, Swift-Arrow : Huntress from [EN-RE] Landroval


    As if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.
    ~~~~~
    Kári was a little Dwarf. / Smaller than you or me. / And wherever Kári went / He took his axe… or three.

  22. #22

    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychobabbleJJ View Post
    most of the stuff that isn't in the LOTRO LUA functionality is because WoW does allow it in their functionality. It's purposfully designed to not let you emulate a lot of the wow "make raids automated clicking in response to popups and then parse lists of numbers to see how we did" as much as possible.
    Er..no. Most of the stuff that isn't in the API is because Turbine hasn't implemented it yet. Unlike WoW, that has its entire UI written in Lua, LotRO is not - so hooks must be created for each piece of data available. Although this method does indeed prevent exploits, as Turbine has full control over exactly what is available - just by looking at the API structure, it's just another case of too much to do, too few people to get it done in a timely manner, that Turbine tends to fall victim to.

    As far as WoW goes, that may have been true - briefly, but that isn't the rule and it certainly isn't true today. Most of the "cure" for that boils down to a combination of a Global Cooldown, and the inability to use any form of timer with the macro system. The end result is making routine actions automated, such as scripting a single "skill" that will fire off your auto-attack, and then follow it up with your main melee attack, or a single button to change your spec/switch a gear set, or even applying a particular poison to a specific gear slot. However, creating a macro that would fire off two consecutive combat skills would fail - as the second skill wouldn't fire, because it would still be on the GCD.

    But that's the macro system - not the addon system. Which is about as different as LotRO's macro system and its plugin system. WoW addons essentially do what LotRO's plugins do - except for it has access to every, or nearly every piece of data available to the game.
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  23. #23

    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Utopia View Post
    As far as WoW goes, that may have been true - briefly, but that isn't the rule and it certainly isn't true today. Most of the "cure" for that boils down to a combination of a Global Cooldown, and the inability to use any form of timer with the macro system. The end result is making routine actions automated, such as scripting a single "skill" that will fire off your auto-attack, and then follow it up with your main melee attack, or a single button to change your spec/switch a gear set, or even applying a particular poison to a specific gear slot. However, creating a macro that would fire off two consecutive combat skills would fail - as the second skill wouldn't fire, because it would still be on the GCD.

    But that's the macro system - not the addon system. Which is about as different as LotRO's macro system and its plugin system. WoW addons essentially do what LotRO's plugins do - except for it has access to every, or nearly every piece of data available to the game.
    That's not quite true either. For one, anything you can do with the macro system, you can do with the addon system. And, in fact, the addon system can be used to write macros on the fly. For example, WoW doesn't do target forwarding, and it's perfectly possible to implement target forwarding via either an addon or by writing macros so all of your skills perform target forwarding. Either way works. I prefer doing it via addons because there's a limited number of macros you can have per character.

    The way WoW actually prevents smart scripting (that is scripts that react to what's going on in the game world versus dumb scripting, where the script just executes a set of instructions with no regards to what's going on), is by typically limiting the circumstances under which an action can be performed (for example, a using a skill can only occur in response to an externally generated event (i.e., the user hitting a button, clicking on something, etc.)), and limiting what sorts of information is available to the addon when it's performing a skill (again, consider the using a skill example, the addon will not be able to look at the buffs that the character has up, or the debuffs that the target has up). Also, addons always start with some on-screen UI element, and there are limits to what you can do to the UI element while in combat. So, for example, a lot of WoW attack sequences are based on priority lists - and you can't implement the priority lists by say, making a stack of quickslots for every action in the priority list on top of each other, and the selectively hiding the quickslots based on whether it's appropriate to use the skill or not.

    LotRO is probably going to run into those issues as it expands coverage of the UI elements. We're only at the point where you could really implement a dumb script (and it'd be a little bit lossy, although I haven't really noticed any real errors in my code that detects when a skill gets used). If they give us access to skill cooldowns, that'd give us dumb scripts. If they give us access to the fellowship/raid UI, that'll give us access to smart healing/buffing scripts. And if they give us access to the target UI, that'll give us access to smart offensive scripts. They're probably reworking their security model and/or figuring out how they want to deal with the potential for dangling pointers.

  24. #24

    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Quote Originally Posted by moebius92 View Post
    That's not quite true either. For one, anything you can do with the macro system, you can do with the addon system. And, in fact, the addon system can be used to write macros on the fly. For example, WoW doesn't do target forwarding, and it's perfectly possible to implement target forwarding via either an addon or by writing macros so all of your skills perform target forwarding. Either way works. I prefer doing it via addons because there's a limited number of macros you can have per character.

    The way WoW actually prevents smart scripting (that is scripts that react to what's going on in the game world versus dumb scripting, where the script just executes a set of instructions with no regards to what's going on), is by typically limiting the circumstances under which an action can be performed (for example, a using a skill can only occur in response to an externally generated event (i.e., the user hitting a button, clicking on something, etc.)), and limiting what sorts of information is available to the addon when it's performing a skill (again, consider the using a skill example, the addon will not be able to look at the buffs that the character has up, or the debuffs that the target has up). Also, addons always start with some on-screen UI element, and there are limits to what you can do to the UI element while in combat. So, for example, a lot of WoW attack sequences are based on priority lists - and you can't implement the priority lists by say, making a stack of quickslots for every action in the priority list on top of each other, and the selectively hiding the quickslots based on whether it's appropriate to use the skill or not.

    LotRO is probably going to run into those issues as it expands coverage of the UI elements. We're only at the point where you could really implement a dumb script (and it'd be a little bit lossy, although I haven't really noticed any real errors in my code that detects when a skill gets used). If they give us access to skill cooldowns, that'd give us dumb scripts. If they give us access to the fellowship/raid UI, that'll give us access to smart healing/buffing scripts. And if they give us access to the target UI, that'll give us access to smart offensive scripts. They're probably reworking their security model and/or figuring out how they want to deal with the potential for dangling pointers.
    First off, thanks for clarifying that - I was going off of mainly what I've seen, but really haven't gotten into WoW addons. As far as LotRO goes, the only way I know of in order to detect what skill has been used, is if someone clicks on a Lua quickslot with a skill slotted in it. In that case it would only recognize the click, and not whether the skill was actually fired or not. Overall however, I do hope that as the plugin system moves forward, that it takes some lessons from WoW's addon system - and how they prevent exploits, as opposed to limiting what data is available to use.
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  25. #25
    Join Date
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    Re: Wondering if certain functionality possible under LotRO LUA API

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Utopia View Post
    ...and how they prevent exploits, as opposed to limiting what data is available to use.
    Assuming that the two are mutually exclusive.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

 

 
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