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Thread: Common Sense

  1. #1
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    Common Sense

    Some people on this server really need to show some common sense when it comes to the moors.

    Do you really expect the other side to bother hanging around when they are out-numbered five to one? When someone announces on /glff "We really need more Freeps out here, we're outnumbered", do you think that going to the moors on your Creep is constructive in any way? I've seen it happen on both sides, with the same results where the outnumbered side just gives up and leaves. You might think it's fun to be one of the seven people that all jump that one guy at once, but it's only going to happen a couple of times before he leaves because the other two people in his group are experiencing the exact same thing.

    As much as you might think of it as easy Renown/Infamy it actually isn't because you are getting less kills per hour, especially when you have to wait after each kill for the whole side to return from the rez circle, and therefore wasting your own time as well as theirs.

    We need each other - Freeps need Creeps and Creeps need Freeps. Without either one the moors is just a place to grind repeatable quests for DP. Think about that the next time you're out there in a 24-man raid and there's 5 people on the other side getting repeatedly wiped because they are so badly out-numbered - how long are they going to bother staying around and you're left with DP grinding?

  2. #2

    Re: Common Sense

    Well said. Even number fights are more fun imo

  3. #3
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    Re: Common Sense

    Also, playing as a freep... If creeps start camping rez circles/GV then why should I stay? What's the point... just to feed them?





    **Spoiler Alert**

    If you camp rez spots, freeps will eventually leave and PvE.

  4. #4
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    Re: Common Sense

    Freeps don't need creeps btw. Game was designed so that freeps can pve, quests, raids, skirmishes, craft etc that Creeps can't. Hence the large amount of freeps that don't need creeps.

    On the flip side Creeps do need freeps. FML

  5. #5
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    Re: Common Sense

    From a Lore sense:
    Sauron doesn't necessarily breed his army for the sake of living long and fruitful lives... he bred them for one thing: to do his bidding. Hence, I can see why, from a game design standpoint, that designers limited the amount of Creep PvE play from the get-go.

    However, from a Game sense:
    It would be very awesome if LOTRO were to extend Creep play to include a much deeper level of PvE content that was outside of The Ettenmoors. Also, to not isolate it to just his forces; what about Creeps from Rhun or Easterlings? What about the ability to play Mumakil Riders?

    There's still tons of possibilities for Creep play development.

  6. #6
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    Re: Common Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by -Unknown- View Post
    Freeps don't need creeps btw. Game was designed so that freeps can pve, quests, raids, skirmishes, craft etc that Creeps can't. Hence the large amount of freeps that don't need creeps.

    On the flip side Creeps do need freeps. FML
    The whole point of the moors is PvP. Both sides equally need the other because without them there is no PvP at all.

  7. #7

    Re: Common Sense

    The same stupidity happens on both sides. If you're coming to the moors, you should be ready to both kill AND die some. Yes freeps have other things to do besides PvMP. But again, if you're coming to the moors, you apparently are interested in PvMPing - and you're going to die some, so be ok with it. If you want sustainable PvMP, creeps need to rank up. Quick question - is it more fun and satisfying to take out a greenie reaver or Rayzr or Aces? Is it more fun and satisfying to take out a greenie spider or Bio?

    The other day we had some satisfying small group fights - like close to even numbers for a while. After the usual stab nonsense the fight moved down to the norbolgs, which was nice in itself, but it was satisfying because when people died they just kept coming back. Creeps ran back from the rez circle while we were still fighting the other part of the group and rezzes kept coming for the freeps. After a constant stream of people coming back from the circle, we had to retreat to regen power - but this was fun. It wasn't sitting in EC knowing that I'll get pounced and lit up by 2 spiders and a couple BAs as soon as I show my face. It also wasn't sitting inside TA knowing that I'll get stunned twice by LMs and then lit up by a couple RKs immediately.

    If you know your side outnumbers the other by a ton, why not just split up. Everyone has much more fun that way. There just aren't enough people yet to keep up constant raids since it usually ends up raid v small group -> raid v 2 or 3 -> raid v nothing.

    And as someone who really enjoys melee classes, there's nothing I hate more than the pewpew standoff. Or fighting amongst NPCs even when the numbers are about even. I vote for no more stab/EC/TA lawn shuffle.

  8. #8
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    Re: Common Sense

    I have to agree with a lot of what Ordun says.

    However.... (had to be a but right?)... as a ranged class no I am not gonna go stand in an open field and have the melee classes in my face. I generally find myself somewhere well back from the fight and get a nice satisfying twang to the bow string. Hate having to draw and loose too soon .. seems shoddy somehow. Yes that also means I will climb rocks, hide behind walls or trees and use NPCs to get the range I need to be effective.

    Having said that .. if it is a nice even fight I am more than happy to be standing at the back of my group shooting people full of arrows.. has the same effect I get the range I need to be effective.

    Problem is Moors is basically never even. Ever.

  9. #9
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    Re: Common Sense

    We had a pretty even (number wise) raid last night which was a whole lot better than the usual STAB/EC standoff. The freeps owned but at least there were even numbers and some high ranking creeps out. Aces, Bio, Acknab (I forget the rest of his name), Menogue, and some others were out.

  10. #10

    Re: Common Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldrandir View Post
    We had a pretty even (number wise) raid last night which was a whole lot better than the usual STAB/EC standoff. The freeps owned but at least there were even numbers and some high ranking creeps out. Aces, Bio, Acknab (I forget the rest of his name), Menogue, and some others were out.
    When it comes to abkag, I just improvise on the spelling. Ex) Akbagbogbishbukbagashnagarash


    On a serious note, we had some great small group fighting going on for a bit yesterday, it slowly got bigger on both sides as some freeps outside of my kins burg group started to show up and also ranked creeps began to come. Fight lasted for a while with both sides dying fairly evenly until the creeps numbers started to overwhelmingly pick up and they pushed us into EC where most of the freeps got crushed, save for the burglars.

    The fight could have gone on way longer though, but the other freeps got scared and ported out leaving 3 burgs fighting about 15 creeps (Aces and Venomsack included with 2 WL's and at least 1 Defiler)... So do you expect us to sit there and continue fighting (and yes I got a PM later saying I should have stayed and fought 15v3)? No! We're just like wargs!

    Regarding group sizes though, it will be hard for groups to police themselves into maintaining a fair group size to fight the other side. You can't really just exclude people from fighting, you know? If a group is splitting, who has the right to keep getting renown/infamy and who doesn't when we are all paying monthly to be out here? Even if you do boot a few people from your raid to make the numbers a little more even, chances are those people are going to follow you or form their own group of misfits and continue to follow you as well.

    And lastly, as this relates to common sense, I would like to add one more thing. After the battle, one of the creeps logged onto their freep to PM me "Are you (censored) serious? If you are going to fight with a group of burglars at least don't constantly run to your npcs and keep going invisible. It isn't even a fight then it's just you being (censored)"

    So next time you PM me because your mad that I killed you, use some common sense before you tell a burglar not to go invisible, because I will seize the opportunity any chance that I get to cloak up. It's like me telling you to march your wargs single-file, unstealthed, into a raid of freeps with promises of cookies and cheeseburgers (hey thats actually a good idea, lets try that sometime Akbag)

  11. #11
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    Re: Common Sense

    *perks up ears*

    Someone say cheeseburgers?
    Last edited by Ugmo; Mar 01 2011 at 02:07 PM.

  12. #12

    Re: Common Sense

    Why don't you go ahead and forget all the other politics you think you understand about moors and check out my rendition of what is really going on.

    While it's true we have population problems out in the moors, that alone is not the biggest problem. When there is only 5 creeps out and a raid of 10 freeps, generally from the same kin and no not always just the Ainur guys, the general attitude to the next freep that comes out to Moors is "leave". Either they are completely ignored or outright told they are not wanted. This does not create a problem for the session it creates an ongoing issue. While I understand you people might think splitting up into different groups and trying to stay 'even' in terms of numbers goes, is actually going to benefit moors, it really isn't. Not to mention it would be near impossible.. "Okay guys, the renown is just coming way too easy, I need all of group two to disband and move from this spot we've been winning over to that spot across the map where there may or may not be kills." Without extreme discipline it's not going to happen.

    That said, when I'm out in moors... and I see a large raid group of freeps approach from the flank, generally after I've been spanking creeps for a good half hour or so, I know that it's generally game over for me. The large raid doesn't want more people because they don't wanna scare off the creeps.



    What would solve this issue?

    More people need to play moors period, watching YG give grats to Thanval last night going from nothing to rank 2 was a pleasant sight... all you guys in the pvp kins (sorry to single you out) need to start bringing freeps to moors with you.. showing them a good time, and then telling them to roll creep.

    You think you are just leveling the playing field by not allowing people to join your raid but what you are really doing is discouraging people from returning.

  13. #13

    Re: Common Sense

    On that note, there really is no arguing the point against me because obviously I fall into that category. I don't wanna be in moors at all because the player base is so ridiculously small and it's the same nonsense every time I go... for the record I pwn at pvmp.

  14. #14

    Re: Common Sense

    I agree with Rusty, we need more freeps and more creeps coming to moors. I've seen alot of new faces this past week, and enjoyed some of the battles very much. Props to reforged and rusty's kin for hanging out there. Playing a creep generally offers more challenge, unless freeps are outnumbered. Just annoys me when somebody asks for more freeps or creeps in moors and people will bring tons of the opposite out :P

  15. #15
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    Re: Common Sense

    Just know this, if you're a freep in a group sitting in EC, i will be camping the food trails leading to EC. Some people come and get me, some just die over and over. Either way, its win compared to EC fights. Have had some good matches with zidia, sno, rustynail even, who shocked me by using fire as a moors RK.

    Also, all the burglars running around, you make things much more interesting.
    Biological - Weaver - Dwarrowdelf
    Gruxxor - Reaver - Immortals
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0821600000006f722/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  16. #16

    Re: Common Sense

    So everyone hates EC, sounds right.

    We should dedicate PvMP battles to different areas per week. You never see any good fights up north, at least I don't. Just EC to TR to EC to STAB to EC to TR to STAB to TA to STAB to EC to maybe LUGz if its a good day.

  17. #17

    Re: Common Sense

    I decree that henceforth all fighting shall take place in the valley of drakes south of Isendeep. Case dismissed.

  18. #18
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    Re: Common Sense

    I think Rusty is the only RK I've ever seen using fire in the moors.


    "Even if you do boot a few people from your raid to make the numbers a little more even, chances are those people are going to follow you or form their own group of misfits and continue to follow you as well."

    Hell yeah they are... Who would want to be solo or grouped with 3, facing a raid of what ever? (Freeps or Creeps) Everyone knows there is safety in numbers. What I hate are the ones who will not group up, but will follow you around, "helping" you kill (Leeching)
    Yeah Necrofire... I'm talking about you

  19. #19
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    Re: Common Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacbo View Post
    I decree that henceforth all fighting shall take place in the valley of drakes south of Isendeep. Case dismissed.
    We actually had one last night

    Last night started out completely uneven (in the freeps favor) but after a while it evened out. There was a 17 freep raid against about 20-25 creeps, including Aces, Bio, Akbag-----------, Burrow, Bullshift, Menogue, Darkmaw (or whatever his name is), and a few others. The fight moved around as well, we had lumber yard fights, STAB, TR, TA, and a few other random places. The creeps even managed to wipe the freeps.
    Last edited by Eldrandir; Mar 02 2011 at 12:17 PM.

  20. #20

    Re: Common Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by StileMajere View Post
    I think Rusty is the only RK I've ever seen using fire in the moors.


    "Even if you do boot a few people from your raid to make the numbers a little more even, chances are those people are going to follow you or form their own group of misfits and continue to follow you as well."

    Hell yeah they are... Who would want to be solo or grouped with 3, facing a raid of what ever? (Freeps or Creeps) Everyone knows there is safety in numbers. What I hate are the ones who will not group up, but will follow you around, "helping" you kill (Leeching)
    Yeah Necrofire... I'm talking about you


    It's still leveling so forgive the low relics and unempowered legacies. I thought we all used whatever was at our disposal? Anyways, work with the tools you've got... this explains the use of "fire" (+dmg on my dps satchel as well)

  21. #21

    Re: Common Sense

    I shall declare myself Queen of Isendeep Mine. All those willing to be set on fire are welcome to visit my realm

  22. #22

    Re: Common Sense

    Lots of numbers on both sides today, was good fights for a while. Nice to see some new faces out there...it really mixes up the battles with fresh players, less tr fighting and more roaming ftw.

  23. #23

    Re: Common Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Karma_81 View Post
    Lots of numbers on both sides today, was good fights for a while. Nice to see some new faces out there...it really mixes up the battles with fresh players, less tr fighting and more roaming ftw.
    Awww, Dire is so excited about his easy kills aka "fresh players." I have to admit... I love 'em too!
    Chieftain Rayzr of Dwarrowdelf (Reaver)
    Footman Sakeri of Dwarrowdelf (Captain)

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Re: Common Sense

    who doesnt like new folks in the moors. some of em were even pretty determined to kill me.
    Biological - Weaver - Dwarrowdelf
    Gruxxor - Reaver - Immortals
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0821600000006f722/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  25. #25
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    Re: Common Sense

    1. lol @ rusty, although i do agree with you, my solution was simply to ask that my kin played on monster side to allow the other freeps to progress on their own or group with a few of my members that do not MP. And the lol was at pwning at pvp, im kinda sad that you left, woulda liked at least one more 1v1 with the Rustynail.

    2. Fights are never even and even if they are by numbers individuals can upset the balance. A good rk can turn the tide for freeps, a defiler that can heal can make the creeps nearly unstoppable, the location of the fight can favor one side or the other. The only way to create fun and fair (in my opinion) fights is for every to change their mind set.

    3. The mindset of id say 90% of freeps and creeps is 'im in the moors, they are attacking me, i need to take a defensive stance' this is what makes fights lame. Always fight on the offense and you will see the heroic battles you want to expect in the moors. Push and when you think you have pushed too far, keep pushing...it might surprise you how well it works.

    4. Canuck... read your post and remember why I put you on ignore, can you blame me?

 

 
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