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Thread: DPS Minstrels

  1. #76
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    162

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    I for sure out DPS my similarly equipped burglar. Actually the DPS is pretty good, power use is a bit high, but I built to compensate for that. I do some stunning DPS in groups, even on bosses I can knock some chunks off him pretty easy, even my ballads hit pretty freaking hard with all those bonuses from legendarys.. Yeah it does take power, but I got like 5200 power and well, it regens fast with 1200 regen.. I dont get the issue here, pots and food is cheap guys! Minstrels put out real nice DPS, and that burst stuff will make a RK green if you devastate a few mobs and one shot them before his induction even goes off. Remember that when traited up and cap-stoned our cries critical and devastate a lot more than when not. More like a DPS class, maybe better!

    Someone was saying a champions auto attacks hit harder than our ballads? I dunno, maybe you could nerf yourself enough to make that true, but properly traited and buffed up with legendaries, as is the champ mind you, his double auto-hits adding up to less than my single ballad. I sit next to a 65 champion as he plays, and on the exact same mobs I see my hits, and his, on his screen. Yeah I glance over and compare. He hits more targets, he AOEs more often, but his single target skills and auto attacks are not hitting harder than mine. Don't you people pay attention to facts when you argue? Our ballads do not have much animation time and you can reduce that with gear, they do not have induction, like a spell, they work like melee skills. You click it, it fires, and cools down in a second or two. I scream through my ballads very quickly. I think that adds up to good dps. While the power lasts you say? Well, how about building to compensate for that issue? Yes you use more power, but if you also do good dps for that power, well now, mightn't that work? If it lasts for the boss fight and you don't run out? Would that be working for you? Thought not. Why do you want so much for minstrels to only be good for Healing. What is your interest in keeping the class restricted to just one role? Did someone make you roll a healer because they needed one and convinced you that was all you were good for? Are you worried about keeping your 'job'? Because minstrel heals and buffs really good even traited for DPS, but its easier to buff while dps-ing, of course.. I don't get it. (thats why i wrote this.)

    I dunno though, and I do heal better than I dps, but my dps seems real good to me, and thats coming from a burglar that loves to DPS so.. whatever

    cndy

  2. #77

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    To be fair, a healing minstrel does just watch green bars move about, maybe doing a quick ballad chain to buff their players...

    But I think most people in the "You rolled a healer to dps? lol" camp forget something.

    This. Is boring. You're not even a player anymore. You're basically a human bot.

    This is why people want to be Battle-Healers. It makes the role more exciting. It means being the healer is now more complicated than just healing. It makes the class more fun. And when a class is more fun, it makes more people want to play it. This directly benefits everyone, not just the minstrels.

  3. #78
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    So much for wanting a rational dicussion eh? I guess next time I will add a nice layer of passive aggressiveness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlowe221 View Post
    How is it that you managed to insert what I wrote into your post, have it in front of you while you typed, and STILL manage to put words in my mouth that I didn't say?
    I am very talented!

    I never said that anyone in this thread argued that a Minstrel can out-DPS a traditional DPS class. What I said was that some have argued that a Mini can COMPETE with DPS classes if played in a certain way. Please read your own post where you quoted me and you will see that is what I said. I will wait....

    Back yet? Great! Now, if you would like an example, please scroll up to the top of this page of the thread where someone says pretty much exactly that - i.e. that a properly played Minstrel can COMPETE with DPS classes in terms of damage out-put. Again, I repeat that no one (including yourself) seems to be willing to show the rest of us this how it is done.
    Maybe your definition of competing and what you intimate from that word differs from mine...Any class can compete with another class. Your arguement doesn't hold as I can infact compete against a champ all day long. Now if I said or the poster you pointed out above said they could Out DPS a "traditional DPS" class then we would be in the wrong over anything more than 30secs to 1 minute. You are inferring from the word "compete" either "beat" or "do more".

    So, to help you out, I will show you how to compete against a DPS class:
    1) Find a traditional DPS class willing to help you
    2) Find a mob with an amount of hit points that would allow you to go all out DPSing while being parsed
    3) Paper, Rock, Scissors for who goes first or best of your /roll100's
    4) Player 1 goes first (gather data)
    5) Player 2 goes second (gather data)
    6) Review data if actually interested
    Congradulations, you have now competed!!

    Edit: Oh, and I never said anything about "right" or "wrong." That was you. I was, however talking about FACTS which are either true or not true.

    The point I was making is that some people in this thread have been making claims that are potentially misleading to the mid-level OP who hasn't experienced endgame Minstrel play yet.

    While YOU may have found some people who are willing to run content at endgame with a DPS-Minstrel in a world where healers are tough enough to come by as it is, that is not the experience of most Minstrel players. Most other players expect a Minstrel to heal in a group - and it's not an unreasonable expectation given that it is the original main-healing class as designated by the people who made the game one pixel at a time.

    The OP deserves to know that people who play DPS-Minstrels in endgame 6-man (and higher) content are the exception and not the rule. IF the OP wishes to play a DPS role in endgame content on an every day basis, perhaps he/she would be better served by investigating other classes designed/more suited to that role. Of course, the OP is entitled to play his/her toon in any way he/she pleases.

    My only desire is that if the OP chooses to play the class in a non-traditional way, that it be done with all the facts in mind. If he/she wants to do it, with the full understanding that others may not always understand, then great - I sincerely wish him/her all the best.

    That being said, I DPS all the time in 3-man content and 3-man/Duo skirmishes. But that is not the same thing as 6/12-man content. Like Anardil, said there is a middle ground - but reading this thread a n00b could easily be led to believe that DPS in endgame 6-man instances is a normal part of being a Minstrel.

    But hey, maybe I'm wrong! Show me how to do it and I will happily join you in telling all the new players that they too can be legitimate DPS in full fellowship content.

    In the meantime, the only fair thing to do seems to be to inform the relatively inexperienced OP (no offense intended) that the I-don't-heal Minstrel is relatively rare and is likely to meet with some resistance in-game. If he/she decides to try it anyway well... He/She is free to make that choice. But why not have it be an informed one?
    Don't you see we are offering the same service to the younger/mid-level Mini's? There is more than 1 way to play the class. That is all. I have not said any of the people shouting out against DPSing end-game content are wrong or bad players, I will inform them about the glorious nature of DPSing and you can tell them it is not ideal for maximum effiency. They get will decide for themselves and we are all good.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000000c08ff/signature.png]Winterfell[/charsig]

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  4. #79
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterfell View Post
    So much for wanting a rational dicussion eh? I guess next time I will add a nice layer of passive aggressiveness.



    I am very talented!



    Maybe your definition of competing and what you intimate from that word differs from mine...Any class can compete with another class. Your arguement doesn't hold as I can infact compete against a champ all day long. Now if I said or the poster you pointed out above said they could Out DPS a "traditional DPS" class then we would be in the wrong over anything more than 30secs to 1 minute. You are inferring from the word "compete" either "beat" or "do more".

    So, to help you out, I will show you how to compete against a DPS class:
    1) Find a traditional DPS class willing to help you
    2) Find a mob with an amount of hit points that would allow you to go all out DPSing while being parsed
    3) Paper, Rock, Scissors for who goes first or best of your /roll100's
    4) Player 1 goes first (gather data)
    5) Player 2 goes second (gather data)
    6) Review data if actually interested
    Congradulations, you have now competed!!



    Don't you see we are offering the same service to the younger/mid-level Mini's? There is more than 1 way to play the class. That is all. I have not said any of the people shouting out against DPSing end-game content are wrong or bad players, I will inform them about the glorious nature of DPSing and you can tell them it is not ideal for maximum effiency. They get will decide for themselves and we are all good.
    I am all for calm and rational discussion. I have done nothing else in this thread or in any other thread I have ever posted in on this forum. I would humbly suggest, however, that misquoting someone or putting words in their mouth isn't really a great way to begin a such a discussion. Also, I have not been passive-aggressive. I directly accused you of putting words in my mouth. That's not passive-aggressive.

    Your argument about competition with a Champ is one of pure semantics and is obviously not what the poster that I referenced is talking about. But you know what? You're right. Using your method you can compete with a Champ. And you will lose every single time in every single scenario - by a lot. It won't even be close.

    But some in this thread have argued that a WS Minstrel will stand a chance or will only lose by a small margin in a DPS scenario against a true DPS class in such a competition. That's just not true. If you (or anyone else) can show differently, I invite them to do so.

    I agree with you 100% that there is more than one way to play this class. I have never said otherwise. I am not trying to tell anyone how to play or what they should or should not do. But I think it's important for new players to be told the facts about the class, both it's abilities and its limitations. Pretending the limitations don't exist like some have done (not accusing you of this personally Winterfell) doesn't do anyone any good.


    To others: I do not believe that healing is the only thing a Minstrel can do. I did not choose this class because anyone asked me to or talked me into it. I like WS just as much as anyone here. I spend 90% of my in-game time in WS mode blowing mobs up. But that is because I spend most of my time solo or in 3-man content and similar-sized skirmishes. I heal in 6-man content because I want and like to do it - and because that is the main role of the class in group settings as per the creators of the game. If you don't like to that's fine - I'm not trying to make you do it.

    Edit: The reason some have called for parses is because anecdotal evidence is unreliable for things involving the kind of math that the game uses to calculate damage.
    Last edited by Marlowe221; Mar 03 2011 at 05:56 PM.
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  5. #80

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    A recent fellowship I was in featured the following:

    A level 65 warden (shield traited.)
    A level 60 captain (Hands of healing traited)
    A Level 65 hunter (DPS traited?)
    A Level 65 Guardian (Tank traited)
    Myself, a level 65 minstrel traited 3 WS and 4 PoS.

    Between the Level 65 warden and the level 60 captain, there was no healing really needed for me in most of the content we were working through. On a few bosses, I dropped WS after an initial volley and got to healing. But in 95% of the fights we were all fine living off the conviction that our warden kept up nearly 100% of the time. The only issue we had was the hunter stealing aggro on occasion.

    In this case (and many others) it makes sense for a minstrel to be in warspeech.

    --Harperella
    [url=http://alesandtales.com]The Lonely Mountain Band[/url]|[url=http://tinyurl.com/freestyleharp]Freestyle![/url]|[url=http://tinyurl.com/winharperella]Winner: Top Guild Leader![/url]|[url=Weatherstock.guildlaunch.com]Weatherstock V[/url]

  6. #81

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Oh, and the secret for power on DPS minstrelsy is to use a harp instead of drums and avoid over-using Call of the Second Age on single targets.

    --Harperella
    [url=http://alesandtales.com]The Lonely Mountain Band[/url]|[url=http://tinyurl.com/freestyleharp]Freestyle![/url]|[url=http://tinyurl.com/winharperella]Winner: Top Guild Leader![/url]|[url=Weatherstock.guildlaunch.com]Weatherstock V[/url]

  7. #82

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by KaylesX View Post
    That is not what I'm saying at all. I PREFER to deal damage rather than sit by healing. That doesn't mean that I never ever heal anybody ever. But healing isn't my primary objective.
    You said you prefer not to be the primary healer, and mainly do damage. That you prefer it because you don't know how, and aren't good at it.


    Quote Originally Posted by KaylesX View Post
    Surely there are more of you out there?

    I'm used to using War-speech and the skills that go along with it, so I really don't have much experience healing anyone other than myself; what I do know how to do is hardly helpful enough to make me the primary healer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Harperelle View Post
    A recent fellowship I was in featured the following:

    A level 65 warden (shield traited.)
    A level 60 captain (Hands of healing traited)
    A Level 65 hunter (DPS traited?)
    A Level 65 Guardian (Tank traited)
    Myself, a level 65 minstrel traited 3 WS and 4 PoS.

    Between the Level 65 warden and the level 60 captain, there was no healing really needed for me in most of the content we were working through. On a few bosses, I dropped WS after an initial volley and got to healing. But in 95% of the fights we were all fine living off the conviction that our warden kept up nearly 100% of the time. The only issue we had was the hunter stealing aggro on occasion.

    In this case (and many others) it makes sense for a minstrel to be in warspeech.

    --Harperella
    Yes, there are of course instances where you may as well DPS. However, in your case you'd have been much better off (damage wise) going full WS with the capstone.




    I never use the drums...far too much of a power cost for the minimal increase in damage.
    Meliane - [EU] Snowbourn
    Meliana - Elendilimir (RIP)

  8. #83

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by Anardil View Post
    Yes, there are of course instances where you may as well DPS. However, in your case you'd have been much better off (damage wise) going full WS with the capstone.
    I had just been in 5 deep for the capstone and had just changed so I'd be a better support role in fellowships. There's definitely a roll off in DPS without those 2k crits coming so regularly.

    The nice thing about traiting deep into PoS is that you can contribute to defense (preventive healing) whether you are DPSing or healing and are much tougher to kill. I'd rather have a minstrel with high survivability than a glass cannon optimized for healing or DPS. You can't heal from the grave, or shout for that matter.

    --Harperella
    [url=http://alesandtales.com]The Lonely Mountain Band[/url]|[url=http://tinyurl.com/freestyleharp]Freestyle![/url]|[url=http://tinyurl.com/winharperella]Winner: Top Guild Leader![/url]|[url=Weatherstock.guildlaunch.com]Weatherstock V[/url]

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    160

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    I don't like drums either for a lot of things, though I do keep one on hand for soloing mainly.

    Harparelle, I would be interested to know what instance you were running and whether or not everyone was raid geared, etc. If, for example, everyone is a bit over-geared for the particular instance than there will certainly be times when you may as well DPS because healing is not required.

    It just seems to me that a WS traited Minstrel (in WS mode) might not be terribly helpful to the group in situations where folks are not over-geared, so to speak.
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  10. #85
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by Anardil View Post
    You said you prefer not to be the primary healer, and mainly do damage. That you prefer it because you don't know how, and aren't good at it.
    Right... That is not the same as never intending or attempting to give any heals. I just don't spend all my time healing people. I would like to be a stronger healer, but that isn't the most important aspect of the game to me.
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  11. #86
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlowe221 View Post
    I am all for calm and rational discussion. I have done nothing else in this thread or in any other thread I have ever posted in on this forum. I would humbly suggest, however, that misquoting someone or putting words in their mouth isn't really a great way to begin a such a discussion. Also, I have not been passive-aggressive. I directly accused you of putting words in my mouth. That's not passive-aggressive.

    Your argument about competition with a Champ is one of pure semantics and is obviously not what the poster that I referenced is talking about. But you know what? You're right. Using your method you can compete with a Champ. And you will lose every single time in every single scenario - by a lot. It won't even be close.

    But some in this thread have argued that a WS Minstrel will stand a chance or will only lose by a small margin in a DPS scenario against a true DPS class in such a competition. That's just not true. If you (or anyone else) can show differently, I invite them to do so.

    I agree with you 100% that there is more than one way to play this class. I have never said otherwise. I am not trying to tell anyone how to play or what they should or should not do. But I think it's important for new players to be told the facts about the class, both it's abilities and its limitations. Pretending the limitations don't exist like some have done (not accusing you of this personally Winterfell) doesn't do anyone any good.


    To others: I do not believe that healing is the only thing a Minstrel can do. I did not choose this class because anyone asked me to or talked me into it. I like WS just as much as anyone here. I spend 90% of my in-game time in WS mode blowing mobs up. But that is because I spend most of my time solo or in 3-man content and similar-sized skirmishes. I heal in 6-man content because I want and like to do it - and because that is the main role of the class in group settings as per the creators of the game. If you don't like to that's fine - I'm not trying to make you do it.

    Edit: The reason some have called for parses is because anecdotal evidence is unreliable for things involving the kind of math that the game uses to calculate damage.
    That is SOOOO true, when I first started educating myself on the minstrel before I started playing him, to get a feel for what I was about to step into, I thought War Speech was so awesome, and I have to be honest, I was deeply dissappointed with it. The way it is described on the forums, to me anyway, is way over-rated. It is not this extremely powerful toggle skill. Helpful yes, but not to the extreme that it is described so often here on the forums.

  12. #87

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    This is off topic, but this thread is way off the original topic anyway so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harperelle View Post
    I had just been in 5 deep for the capstone and had just changed so I'd be a better support role in fellowships. There's definitely a roll off in DPS without those 2k crits coming so regularly.

    The nice thing about traiting deep into PoS is that you can contribute to defense (preventive healing) whether you are DPSing or healing and are much tougher to kill. I'd rather have a minstrel with high survivability than a glass cannon optimized for healing or DPS. You can't heal from the grave, or shout for that matter.

    --Harperella

    How does traiting protector make you much more survivable than WS? You can go 5 WS and 2 Protector.... what 2 protector traits can possibly make that big of a differnce in survivability? 15s longer ballads....longer anthems...and a little more AV? Or maybe group wide vit/evade buffs, which are a nice perk but not nearly enough to make it that big of an advantage.
    Last edited by Anardil; Mar 04 2011 at 06:16 AM.
    Meliane - [EU] Snowbourn
    Meliana - Elendilimir (RIP)

  13. #88

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    The things that make me tougher in PoS build:

    1) Double strength tales (Warding in particular)
    2) Longer ballad windows (ballad of steel and balance in particular for defencse, resonance and swiftness for offense)
    3) Group-wide song buffs (from smooth voice)
    4) 45s Anthems give a lot more wiggle room for keeping up ICMR

    I noticed the difference in survivability vs. damage the first time I traited full WS. Traiting 4 into PoS may nerf your crits a bit, but your DPS rotation is mostly unchanged.

    --Harperella
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  14. #89

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by Harperelle View Post
    The things that make me tougher in PoS build:

    1) Double strength tales (Warding in particular)
    2) Longer ballad windows (ballad of steel and balance in particular for defencse, resonance and swiftness for offense)
    3) Group-wide song buffs (from smooth voice)
    4) 45s Anthems give a lot more wiggle room for keeping up ICMR

    I noticed the difference in survivability vs. damage the first time I traited full WS. Traiting 4 into PoS may nerf your crits a bit, but your DPS rotation is mostly unchanged.

    --Harperella
    And these are some of the reasons I concentrate on the Protector of Song line. It's an extremely powerful line for survivability which I consider essential since battles hardly ever go perfectly.

    So far I've only seen two arguments against dps minstrels. The first one is efficiency which in most cases doesn't seem to make much of a difference without parsing and/or using a stopwatch. If you have to parse or time something to notice a difference, then there really isn't much of a difference in effect just in some numbers. The second is basically a lack of minstrels to have two in a group. This is actually rather easy to take care of. Stop pigeonholing minstrels as healers only. I'd bet you would find a lot more minstrels playing if people would stop pigeonholing them into a healing only role. Simply put, healing is usually an extremely boring and thankless task. When you make a class do nothing but that, it's no wonder you have so few of that class to choose from.

  15. #90

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    I know the trait line benefits, but you still get some of that from triating 2 of them. Having 4 rather than 2...I dno, it just seems like a halfway type thing where you give up a lot (and it's a lot, the capstone adds a lot more dps) for not much in return.

    Sorry for going off on tangents...lol, I do that a lot.
    Meliane - [EU] Snowbourn
    Meliana - Elendilimir (RIP)

  16. #91

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    The main things 4 deep vs. 2 deep will get you are longer buff times and doubled tales. I go 5/2 when soloing, but prefer 3/4 for group content or very difficult solo content (this was how I got through Death from Below). You give up the crits for having ballad buffs up 100% of the time (30s vs. 10s duration is a _big_ difference) and for the longer anthems (45s vs. 30s really helps with CD timers).

    Try it and you'll see. You will kill slower but be tougher. Most of the fight you will cap out at 40% common mitigation due to tale of warding and ballad of steel. Your smooth voice songs (if you choose to use them) will give a little cushion and allow you to tier up prior to combat. Opening combat with the 20% melee bonus from ballad of war is a nice benefit.

    --Harp
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  17. #92

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    I have tried it, didn't notice much difference. I trait 5 WS and strength of voice/battle hymn, give me longer ballads and the ICMR. The songs of vigour/balance take way to long to cast and keep you stuck in place, I'd rather just keep the ballads to myself if I really want the buff (you still get them, just single target), and with strength of voice they stay up enough of the time (it's not 10s, it's 20 I believe, you just lose out on the overall protector bonus).

    Without the capstone I notice a significant dps drop, to the point where I may as well just not waste my time and stay out of WS. That's just me personally.
    Meliane - [EU] Snowbourn
    Meliana - Elendilimir (RIP)

  18. #93
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Personally, I like the Yellow and Red trait lines the best with their respective capstones.

    I usually run 5R(w/cap)/2Y or 5Y(w/cap)/2R (sometimes 2B) depending on what content I'm doing. I don't see the utility in a 3R/4Y build - but I am always willing to learn!

    Oh, and someone said something about pigeonholing. No person is trying to pigeonhole Minstrels into healing in full groups - the game mechanics do a lot of that all by themselves. Some folks seem to want to take a class designed primarily for healing/buffing and turn it into a DPS class. It's like using a socket wrench to drive a nail into a board. Can you do it? Sure I guess so if you try hard enough but... why?
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  19. #94
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by DrnknElf View Post
    I'd bet you would find a lot more minstrels playing if people would stop pigeonholing them into a healing only role. Simply put, healing is usually an extremely boring and thankless task. When you make a class do nothing but that, it's no wonder you have so few of that class to choose from.
    I agree. Of course, it's only my opinion, but I think there would be a LOT more Minstrels around if people would look open-mindedly upon those who do DPS. It's obvious from the initial response here on the forums that people tend to look at them as simple people who don't understand their class. But if people didn't react with quite so much hostility, and would just choose to work with the players whose play styles suited them (which is how games usually work, after all) - well, who's to say there wouldn't be many more minis who switch back and forth?

    That got kind of wordy, ugh. But I think you get what I mean - if people could roll a mini and do DPS when they wanted, there would probably be more minis in general, and so more healers available.
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  20. #95
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by KaylesX View Post
    I agree. Of course, it's only my opinion, but I think there would be a LOT more Minstrels around if people would look open-mindedly upon those who do DPS. It's obvious from the initial response here on the forums that people tend to look at them as simple people who don't understand their class. But if people didn't react with quite so much hostility, and would just choose to work with the players whose play styles suited them (which is how games usually work, after all) - well, who's to say there wouldn't be many more minis who switch back and forth?

    That got kind of wordy, ugh. But I think you get what I mean - if people could roll a mini and do DPS when they wanted, there would probably be more minis in general, and so more healers available.
    If we are talking about possible changes to the class in the future, then yeah I agree. Having a legitimate alternate group role might very well attract more people to the class, thereby creating a larger pool of potential healers. I have complained about our lack of a true second role myself.

    In the meantime the only class I can think of that can do for-real DPS in full fellowship endgame content as well as heal it (depending on traits, etc) is the RK.

    On the bright side, some of the changes to our class coming in the next couple of weeks (I hope) include things like WS skills activating power-free while healing! Changes to our buffs and anthems are pretty cool too. I'm excited about it personally.

    My attitude is "Yeah, I'm the Healer. Follow me if you want to live."
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a0000001b4566/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  21. #96

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlowe221 View Post
    Can you do it? Sure I guess so if you try hard enough but... why?
    Here's some reasons for you:

    1) Its a legitimate role, based on the traits that the game gives us. Why make a DPS line if it isn't useful?
    2) If your main is a minstrel, you may not always want to play as the support healer.
    3) Its fun to see how we can use things in unconventional ways.

    You gave the example of using a socket wrench to drive a nail. That's a perfectly legitimate use if you haven't got a hammer. Perhaps you are running in a group that is Minstrel/Minstrel/Warden/Guard/Captain/Captain. In this case you haven't got a hammer. Let the minnies go warspeech crazy and the Captains and warden can take healing. Or just let one minnie go dps here. If you have a Loremaster/Hunter/RK/Champ/Burg/Minstrel group, then you'll be healing for sure.

    There are plenty of examples of innovation from people who have repurposed one tool for a new or different job. This is called creativity.

    --Harperella
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  22. #97
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    3,687

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by Harperelle View Post
    You gave the example of using a socket wrench to drive a nail. That's a perfectly legitimate use if you haven't got a hammer.
    Sure, you can use a socket wrench to drive a nail, but it would be slow, tedious, and far more trouble than it's worth. Why use a socket wrench when a dozen hammers are readily available? No good group leader would intentionally use the first makeup you describe.

    1) Its a legitimate role, based on the traits that the game gives us. Why make a DPS line if it isn't useful?
    The Warrior Skald line was never intended to be a group DPS. It was designed primarily for soloing.
    Last edited by jeedai; Mar 04 2011 at 09:43 PM.

  23. #98

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by jeedai View Post
    The Warrior Skald line was never intended to be a group DPS. It was designed primarily for soloing.
    [citation needed]

    I think Minstrel is literally the only class in the game that doesn't seem to be allowed to have multiple group roles. Guardian, though, is probably another class.

    Champion: AoE DPS, Single Target DPS, Tanking
    Guardian: Tanking, (Maybe DPS/Tanking)
    Captain: Healing/Buffing, Tanking/Buffing
    Lore Master: CC/Buffing/Debuffing/DPS, Healing/Buffing/CC/Debuffing/DPS (Yes, those count as two different ones)
    RuneKeeper: DPS/Debuffing, Healing
    Burglar: Assured FM Starter, Debuffing, DPS, Crowd Control
    Minstrel: Healer/Buffer
    Last edited by Zachski; Mar 04 2011 at 10:51 PM.

  24. #99
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Ontario, California
    Posts
    5,589

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by jeedai View Post
    Sure, you can use a socket wrench to drive a nail, but it would be slow, tedious, and far more trouble than it's worth. Why use a socket wrench when a dozen hammers are readily available? No good group leader would intentionally use the first makeup you describe.
    If the socket wrench is closer and takes less effort and still gets the job done, getting up and going to go get one of your dozen hammers really doesn't matter.

    I am happy for you that you or your leader can hand pick every group you enter. It is probably the case for many people in consistent kin/friend ran groups. Those are not however, the only groups of people that play this game and why people run in pugs. Pick up what you can and what might fit/be needed and get to it.

    The Warrior Skald line was never intended to be a group DPS. It was designed primarily for soloing.
    For you that is the case. I intended from the begining to DPS in groups whenever I wanted and use it when I was soloing.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000000c08ff/signature.png]Winterfell[/charsig]

    For My BW Brethren or Those Who Love Stick Figures [url=http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=322130] 3 Years of Stick Art [/url]
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  25. #100
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    3,687

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterfell View Post
    If the socket wrench is closer and takes less effort and still gets the job done, getting up and going to go get one of your dozen hammers really doesn't matter.

    I am happy for you that you or your leader can hand pick every group you enter. It is probably the case for many people in consistent kin/friend ran groups. Those are not however, the only groups of people that play this game and why people run in pugs. Pick up what you can and what might fit/be needed and get to it.
    In my experience, getting DPS classes is always far easier than finding healers for PuGs...

    For you that is the case. I intended from the begining to DPS in groups whenever I wanted and use it when I was soloing.
    Your use of the trait line does not change the developer's intentions for it.

 

 
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