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Thread: DPS Minstrels

  1. #1
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    DPS Minstrels

    Surely there are more of you out there?

    Since I solo everything that I can, when I go into groups, I prefer to do damage over healing. I'm used to using War-speech and the skills that go along with it, so I really don't have much experience healing anyone other than myself; what I do know how to do is hardly helpful enough to make me the primary healer. And that's okay with me...except when people start yelling at me for "not doing my job". I tell my groups before we start that I do DPS, so we can pick up another healer. Don't get mad at me, I'm doing the job I offered.

    /rant. But do any of you other Minstrels do more damage than healing?
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  2. #2
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    in group content, warspeech minstrels are either hideous power hogs or weak DPS-ers. there's not too many, if any, around for this reason. Only minstrels I know that do WS in groups switch out to healing as soon as the going starts to get tough (and are still the main healers) - outside of the Moors that is.

    You and others are going to get very frustrated with your class if you don't heal. You will find it easier than any other class to get into groups as a healing minstrel. The opposite is true if you are a non-healing minstrel.
    Lore-mastery - A weekly column discsussing end game lore-master play.

  3. #3
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychobabbleJJ View Post
    in group content, warspeech minstrels are either hideous power hogs or weak DPS-ers. there's not too many, if any, around for this reason. Only minstrels I know that do WS in groups switch out to healing as soon as the going starts to get tough (and are still the main healers) - outside of the Moors that is.

    You and others are going to get very frustrated with your class if you don't heal. You will find it easier than any other class to get into groups as a healing minstrel. The opposite is true if you are a non-healing minstrel.
    To the contrary My mini can put out some impressive dps numbers, not even traited for dps. Though it is in slow bursts, especially while waiting for cd's. But if extra dps is needed a mini can do the job IMO
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  4. #4
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Minis are healers if your not healing your getting yelled at. We are the primary healing class so if we aren't healing someones getting ticked off. However i almost always have war speech turned on extra damage and skills. Since we use healing skills on ourselves base healing is mostly ignored. In my xp's minis can kill almost as much as champs(I play as both) so you just need to heal more and use your ballads and cry's to attack.

  5. #5
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Minstels using ballads is a great way to throw in some dps as well as buffing the group up, so once everyone is at max morale...ballad up till tier for...heal the tank, rinse and repeat.

    And plz stay outta WS (If youre healing)...thanks =)
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  6. #6

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Yes Minstrels can dish out good DPS for a time. And for the lower lvls you could count a minstrel traited red as DPS. But as the lvl goes up so does the duration of the fights and the number one problem for dps minstrels becomes apparent, power. For a long fight we have two options well three if you count having a pet Lore-Master . We either go all in with our skills and run out of power in the middle of the fight or we conserve power and our DPS drops. Either way a minstrel can no longer be counted as a DPS class.

    That doesn't mean we couldn't DPS most instances it is just that other classes would be more efficient so most people prefer to have a real DPS-class instead of a DPS-Minstel in there group.

    So you can play as a DPS but be prepared that this is not the most welcome addition to a fellowship. And that when you are the only healer in a group you are expected to heal first and dps later.
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  7. #7
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    I am almost always in WS...I will heal if it means getting something I need from a fellowship setting but otherwise it is soloing and WS for me. In the Moors it is 60/40 - 70/30 WS/Heals

    Don't let anyone tell you what "your job is"...play the class how you want, just be willing to leave/be kicked if the group leader doesn't like your playstyle. Easiest way to avoid that...start groups yourself with either another Mini or an RK willing to heal.

    Remember is anyone tells you "If you wanted to DPS you shouls have rolled _____ (insert class)" just tell them, "Well if you wanted Heals so much, you should have rolled _____ (insert class)"

    Have fun in WS and have even more fun (while it lasts) with the next update!
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  8. #8
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    You are hurting your groups efficiency if you get another healer. Way slower dps overall if a minstrel is dpsing compared to a dps class, and believe me I am a warspeech minstrel. If you want to group and do it efficiently and have people invite you to groups, you will need to heal. Its not hard, very easy actually.

  9. #9
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Did an all mini gs run the other night and it went a lot smoother than some "balanced" groups that I have run GS in, and only one mini was set for healing. We also did fine on power in GS, in SG we did run into power problems.
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  10. #10
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by esdumby View Post
    You are hurting your groups efficiency if you get another healer. Way slower dps overall if a minstrel is dpsing compared to a dps class, and believe me I am a warspeech minstrel. If you want to group and do it efficiently and have people invite you to groups, you will need to heal. Its not hard, very easy actually.
    All of the content is easy...and a little slower DPS means nothing in 95% of instances. The OP would have to start their own groups most of the time though, so as long as the OP doesn't mind leading.

    Fun > Less time in an instance
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  11. #11
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    As a LM who watches blue bars pretty closely and has run with WS minies quite a few times, I really echo what esdumpy and santa_claw say - mini's are bad DPS classes in group settings becuase if you're doing decent damage you run out of power very, very badly. Eg. one time I ran helcham with 4 L65s including a mini in warspeech cause we obv didn't need real heals. He ran out of power about 1/4 through the fight and that's against a L50 boss that was dropping pretty quickly. It's very easy to tell which mini is in warspeech if you have two in a group, one doing damage. It's the one who's power bar is dropping precipitously...

    Quote Originally Posted by Daebilin View Post
    To the contrary My mini can put out some impressive dps numbers, not even traited for dps. Though it is in slow bursts, especially while waiting for cd's. But if extra dps is needed a mini can do the job IMO
    That's exactly what i'm trying to say. You can do some good numbers in like the first 30s of a fight which is fine for solo stuff, cause solo encounters don't last much longer than that. but in fellowship settings you can't keep those numbers up so your dps (damage per second, not the big spike number you did earlier in) is weak.
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  12. #12

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    if there's already is a healer in the group i would take a dps mini any day of the week.

    reason being is the group support buffs/enemy de-buffs mini's throw out far out way the slight loss in total spike numbers. The dps mini might not have champ dps but they boost the performance of ALL the other members in the group so i really don't see it as such a overall loss

    Healing/SUPPORT/dps

    if things start to go really bad the mini can always drop out of WS and heal. If the group is on the ball this shouldn't need to ever happen outside of boss fights.

    also you don't need to heal as much if you kill targets before they can damage you. let your anthems do the healing work

  13. #13
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    To play devils advocate if I went by this system of watching bars I would never run with champions, becuase their health bar drop so much faster when they are focused on dpsing. I say stop worrying about what other people are playing as long as you have someone willing to main heal and one willing to main tank 95% of the time you can mix just about anything in.
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  14. #14

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    My main is a Minstrel, and I live in Warspeech. I never heal, but I sure add a lot of +in-combat-morale-regen!

    It was not difficult for me to figure out how to play a dps Minstrel well. Every class/spec has its weakness, and for dps Minstrel it is power conservation. It really takes very little thought and effort to compensate for that, but most players are lazy and don't like to really think much or do anything other than 'show up and go'. I do put in this extra effort though, I understand the stats quite well, my damage is just lovely, my power lasts as long as I need it to, and I'm less squishy than most other dps.

    Most of the previous posts are, in my opinion, based on peoples' experience teaming with lazy buggers that don't put in the effort to learn or adapt. The opinions aren't based in true possibility, and trust me, there are some of us out there that do amazing things as dps Minstrels!

    Apparently crowd control and buffing the rest of the team means nothing. I pull my weight as dps on my own, but a fully traited Ballad of War adds a whole lot to the group's dps as well: that extra damage should not be discounted. Some Hunter will likely show higher individual dps numbers than me on some idiot's dps meter, but that Hunter isn't adding the extra dps, survivability, or passive healing to the rest of the group that I am. I'd rather have me.

  15. #15
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    I do both. In DPS mode...minis can put up good numbers, have exceptional ICMR and are not as squishy as people think. For very short term burst DPS, you can and will out dps RK's -- you can even hold your own (short term) with aoe champs. The problem is, as others have mentioned, minis cannot put out sustained DPS w/ power costs...you'll scream youself out of juice. But -- don't let that discourage you. A mini can tank/dps/and do just about anything short term in WS. And enjoy and thrive in that roll.

    However -- to succeed as a DPS mini, you need to think of yourself more as a burg or a cappie -- as a dps support class. You need to make sure ballad of war is up, maxed out, and functioning to support your melee classes. Soon you'll have the ballads of fear and ballads of flame (AKA ballads of range and ballads of tactical) to add that DPS to others. Anthem of the free peoples is exceptional to assist others.

    In the future -- I think a mini's better role as a DPS class will be temporary burst dps, switching into healing mode. the WS penalty will still be there, but the minus dps bonus while switching will not.

    Minis do not have the sustained DPS as a major dps class. They can dish it! They can take it well! but they can't sustain it. If you can balance your role to do both DPS, enahance others dps, and then heal -- you have a role that i think will suit you well.

    And by no means, am I arguing that I would NOT take a mini as a dps class...but...i'd choose an RK or a hunter or a champ over that mini unless I knew that individual mini can adapt in that role well. It's a very tough road -- it can be done...but challenging.
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  16. #16
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    The role of the minstrel is to heal. It's the main healing class. Warspeech was added to the game so people could solo easier. Anyone remember what it was like leveling up before WS was added? TORTURE! I don't think we're trying to tell you how to play. Turbine is telling you how to play the class cause it's the minstrel's role to heal. It would be like a group asking for a tank but a guardian joins the group and says they are an overpower guardian so look for another guardian or a warden. Group content has it's standard role requirements. Minstrel is not a DPS class for group content. Any group would take a hunter or champ for DPS over a mini. WS=Solo play
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  17. #17
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    I think at lower levels this is a fine choice, and a fun one, as long as group members can find a healer. To get things you'll need later (gear runs), you'll be out of power in 30 seconds if you think you can stay in warspeech and use your calls as a "DPS class." Minstrels are burst damage, gaited completely by power and crits. We are not sustained damage and most definitely not a "DPS class."

  18. #18
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by jayspeed View Post
    One role of the minstrel is to heal. It's one of the main healing classes. Warspeech was added to the game so people could solo easier. Anyone remember what it was like leveling up before WS was added? TORTURE! I am trying to tell you how to play because Turbine has offered suggestions on how to play the class cause one minstrel's role is to heal. It would be like a group asking for a tank but a guardian joins the group and says they are an overpower guardian so look for another guardian or a warden because all the content is way to difficult to try new ways of doing it. Group content has it's standard role requirements and I can't or won't think out of the box. In my personal opinion, Minstrel is not a DPS class for group content. Any group I am leader of would take a hunter or champ for DPS over a mini. WS=fun to play
    Fixed for you.

    Have fun playing the game you enjoy.
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  19. #19
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterfell View Post
    Fixed for you.

    Have fun playing the game you enjoy.
    I like what you did there. Made me laugh. +rep
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  20. #20

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Actually, if what I understand about Guardians is correct, Overpower Guardians are actually the default Guardian for party use since they can deal damage AND tank at the same time.

  21. #21
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Depending on my particular role, I probably won't want the minstrel DPSing. If I am the tank, it would bother me as much, because I am not going to loose aggro to a DPSing minstrel nearly as often as an RK or hunter. And quite frankly, even in war speech, you can get a heal off, not a strong one, but it does still let you do it, so there is a few extra heals and if you are using ballads, well there are some buffs.

    Fact of the matter is this: The game is for fun, if you are having fun in doing so, and can find a group to support (and they are having fun). Then you can tank as a minstrel for all I care... Though you will probably cause a wipe, so....

  22. #22

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    A WS mini can solo extremely well, and in a group bring a ton of dps to the table. If, by DPS, you mean damage per 10 seconds.

    After that, you're going to fall well behind pretty much any dps class, and even that initial 10 seconds or so is highly based on crits. Then you wait around spamming cruddy ballads for 10-15 seconds, fire off your high damage skills again, rely on a crit, and wait for cooldowns once again...

    3-5 rotations into that, you're pretty much out of power and sucking.

    In a 3-man, I always go DPS. Solo, I almost never heal myself. In a group of 6 or 12? Well, there's really no reason for me to dps, pretty much any DPS class is going to do it better, and if we bring in another healer, the difference in DPS lost for that healer in what I can do better than a DPS class is way bigger.


    Bottom line, and I'm sorry to say it, the group is correct in telling you to do your job and heal/buff in the 6/12 man instances.
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  23. #23
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by Anardil View Post
    A WS mini can solo extremely well, and in a group bring a ton of dps to the table. If, by DPS, you mean damage per 10 seconds.

    After that, you're going to fall well behind pretty much any dps class, and even that initial 10 seconds or so is highly based on crits. Then you wait around spamming cruddy ballads for 10-15 seconds, fire off your high damage skills again, rely on a crit, and wait for cooldowns once again...

    3-5 rotations into that, you're pretty much out of power and sucking.

    In a 3-man, I always go DPS. Solo, I almost never heal myself. In a group of 6 or 12? Well, there's really no reason for me to dps, pretty much any DPS class is going to do it better, and if we bring in another healer, the difference in DPS lost for that healer in what I can do better than a DPS class is way bigger.


    Bottom line, and I'm sorry to say it, the group is correct in telling you to do your job and heal/buff in the 6/12 man instances.
    So, all of the content is a DPS race right and can't be enjoyed by anything but a "standard" group?

    There is a difference between saying you're a healer and staying in WS and joining a group saying you want to DPS. If the WS Mini is upfront then it is up to the leader, if the leader invites then it is up to the other's to leave the group if they can't reconcile it in their boxxed in cookie cutter world.
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  24. #24
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    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterfell View Post
    There is a difference between saying you're a healer and staying in WS and joining a group saying you want to DPS. If the WS Mini is upfront then it is up to the leader, if the leader invites then it is up to the other's to leave the group if they can't reconcile it in their boxxed in cookie cutter world.
    THANK YOU. This is precisely what I'm saying. As soon as I join any group, I tell everyone that I do more damage than healing; if they choose to take me into their instances, then they should expect me to do what I said I was going to do, no more or less.

    Ultimately, if someone has a problem with having a DPS Minstrel in their group, they shouldn't bring them into the instance in the first place. A simple, "I'm sorry, I would prefer to have a healer" at the start would do the trick and save wiping, yelling, and repair costs.
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  25. #25

    Re: DPS Minstrels

    Dps mini power costs are high, but you can LEARN to manage your power.
    you can get better gear to help with power
    you can make friends with a LM


    as a dps mini...

    pro's

    You keep all your support buffs enhancing your entire groups performance
    you gain a TON of damage
    you gain de-buffs to make your targets take more damage, PARTY WIDE
    you are usually a lot harder to take down from enhanced ballads
    you can still heal, you just need to be smarter about it
    you gain improved CC

    con's

    you lose your big heals for those nasty crits on the tank(can be fixed in 10 seconds)
    99% of the player base seems to have no clue what a dps mini can do?

 

 
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