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Thread: Good fights

  1. #1
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    Good fights

    I just want to give props to all the freeps that have been bringing the fight out every night this week. It has been fun the past few days. Keep it coming.
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  2. #2

    Re: Good fights

    I've been liking the fights on the other side of TA and near the permanent fort with all the trees over there, much more fluid than trying to fight on our bridge and having runners agro a bunch of trolls, since it just results in an endless series of hit-and-runs.

    It's too bad we can't set different rez spots, would be interesting to take the fight somewhere else for a change of scenery, but if it's hard to get back into the fray for the freeps(especially if creeps are spawn point sitting as they did yesterday), then it becomes imbalanced and field fights occur less often.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Good fights

    I don't know about everyone else, but I am getting tired of fighting in NPCs. Would be nice to have some open field battles well away from NPC's/Rez points. This would take skill to win and not NPC's.

    Most of my deaths have occurred at the hand of NPC's and it gets boring having to push all the way up the keeps to get kills even when the numbers are fairly even. Seems like very few people want to actually stand and fight and I get a lot of kills by hitting people in the back as they run away into NPC's.

    This morning was only the second time I have been able to use the creep NPC's when Silent and I ran into 2 people in Grothum. Was fun times for us but not for them.

    Anyway, as usual Treason will be out in full every Saturday at 10:00pm EST and it would be nice to have some open field fights.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Good fights

    Seriously, 5 freeps vs 3 creeps and you run? We finally get 6 vs 5 and we push NPC's to get kills. LTP. I thought you guys were the best of the best since you top the leader boards. Guess you can't fight unless you are in your own NPC's?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/072060000000b3089/signature.png]Atate[/charsig]

  5. #5
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    Re: Good fights

    Quote Originally Posted by Saboga View Post
    Seriously, 5 freeps vs 3 creeps and you run? We finally get 6 vs 5 and we push NPC's to get kills. LTP. I thought you guys were the best of the best since you top the leader boards. Guess you can't fight unless you are in your own NPC's?
    You know Turbine officially made Creeps tougher than freeps, the higher you guys get, the more impossible it will be, You are right about the NPCs, but also know there are lots of you that do it too. 90% of the time on 1 on 1 fights you guys will run and grab about 4 more guys, how about if you want even fights you start giving 1 on 1 fights...
    Believe it or not 1 on 1 gives you many more points then 10 on 10 or whatever. 1 solo kill for both sides is normally 100 Reknown or whatever the creep one is called (not to sure)..
    But yeah, its fun, I agree that the moors is fun also, Though I seriously hate the idea 90% of you cant fight up front with a hunter, its kinda unfair that you can show your stupid power, and we will stand there getting beat the **** outa..
    Just like how hunters cant track on horses anymore or desperate flight in combat, But you know
    Just make it more fair and lots more peopel will come out I promise you that....

    Khium Nibin

  6. #6
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    Re: Good fights

    Quote Originally Posted by Khium View Post
    You know Turbine officially made Creeps tougher than freeps
    Khium Nibin
    Please tell me your joking? Have you ever played a creep? Freeps want to get better they can go and get better gear, which is what most of the freeps out in this moors did (and they still fail). Creeps can only get better by killing freeps. We do not get better skills until we rank up.

    As for the 1v1, I have no problem doing 1v1 against anyone with the exception of Wardens (OP in 1v1). In fact I think I have run into you by yourself a few times and watched as you ran away into NPC's.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/072060000000b3089/signature.png]Atate[/charsig]

  7. #7

    Re: Good fights

    The which is better argument is a moot discussion, there's no raw data to suggest either one is more powerful inherently, they simply have different advantages. PvMP leaderboards show creeps with as much infamy as freeps have renown on every server.

    Freeps can get gear, but we also have to level to 65 first and then run a bunch of instances, grind out legendary items to get decent legacies that are actually plausibly useful there(hooray, War Cry threat up...), and pay out our arses for things like the potions and food necessary at almost every juncture(which means running enough PvE content to keep gold up since the moors pays nothing).

    Creeps have to kill freeps to get some of their better advantages and they lack the full skill arsenal of a freep, but they sport Moors-centric skills from top to bottom, whether it's the stacking long duration high hit DoTs, the amount of stuns and dazes(see: rolling a Warg/Spider vs. Leveling an LM/Burglar to 65), the fact creep classes can detect all stealthed freeps but not vice versa, or the fact that anyone who's a VIP can just hit Monster Play and suddenly there's another creep on the battlefield that is easily as strong as any freep under 60(with possible exceptions in protracted 1v1s).

    So both sides have advantages and disadvantages. It's also highly class make-up dependent on any given raid battle.

    But I'd like to echo the above sentiment: we need more field battles. Today we had 6v4 advantage around the start, which is nice but hardly TA second floor worthy. It eventually got so boring and tiresome coordinating our strafing back and forth by the TA doorway that most left except Chaco and myself. We stayed and fought for a while against double the odds in some cases, because it doesn't bloody matter. They should just remove Rating and K/D from the viewable stats and maybe we'd get some decent fights since everyone seems so concerned with them.
    Last edited by Jacbo; Dec 14 2010 at 09:30 AM.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Good fights

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacbo View Post
    The which is better argument is a moot discussion, there's no raw data to suggest either one is more powerful inherently, they simply have different advantages. PvMP leaderboards show creeps with as much infamy as freeps have renown on every server.

    Freeps can get gear, but we also have to level to 65 first and then run a bunch of instances, grind out legendary items to get decent legacies that are actually plausibly useful there(hooray, War Cry threat up...), and pay out our arses for things like the potions and food necessary at almost every juncture(which means running enough PvE content to keep gold up since the moors pays nothing).

    Creeps have to kill freeps to get some of their better advantages and they lack the full skill arsenal of a freep, but they sport Moors-centric skills from top to bottom, whether it's the stacking long duration high hit DoTs, the amount of stuns and dazes(see: rolling a Warg/Spider vs. Leveling an LM/Burglar to 65), the fact creep classes can detect all stealthed freeps but not vice versa, or the fact that anyone who's a VIP can just hit Monster Play and suddenly there's another creep on the battlefield that is easily as strong as any freep under 60(with possible exceptions in protracted 1v1s).

    So both sides have advantages and disadvantages. It's also highly class make-up dependent on any given raid battle.

    But I'd like to echo the above sentiment: we need more field battles. Today we had 6v4 advantage around the start, which is nice but hardly TA second floor worthy. It eventually got so boring and tiresome coordinating our strafing back and forth by the TA doorway that most left except Chaco and myself. We stayed and fought for a while against double the odds in some cases, because it doesn't bloody matter. They should just remove Rating and K/D from the viewable stats and maybe we'd get some decent fights since everyone seems so concerned with them.
    Well, when I was in the moors at a lower level, creeps, which are now the highest ranks on the server, have gathered up low level (since leve 10 plus can go to moors) and gathered up easy points, when I came back there at level 60, I am pretty sure I saw a rank 5 reaver, at the same time there were only 3 rank 4s freeps on our server. Not saying its cheating, welll it kinda is, but still..
    See going back to Sabuga's quote, Well 90% of you guys never let ranged classes get much damamge out if you are a warleader/reaver/warg, I see the warg has its abilities, but still when fighting a hunter you guys act like noobs and keep running back and fourth so we cannot shoot, even with stuns and needful haste equipped.. YOu say you want for fair fights, then how about you stop whimping out and fight face to face? Too afraid you will lose? Whats it to you dying? Running 50 meters back from your rez...
    I was fighting creeps all last week, I would run in on a 2 versus 2 fight, and those 2 creeps kept running around (btw was with a level 50 minstrel, so dont see what was unfair about it) and it took maybe 3-4 minutes for you to call up a freep and say "Hey come on and help me, I am too big of a whimp to fight even fights, even when one is level 50"
    Yeah, lets have some fair fights now, the keeps going back and fourth dont really matter, keeps are just keeps, I do think it is fair that we ahve TR and you guys have Lugs for the rez points, just so we can runback faster, including that you guys can map any where you want to whenever you want to. SOrry jacbo, that most of that wasn't for your Quote
    Khium Nibin

  9. #9
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    Re: Good fights

    Quote Originally Posted by Khium View Post
    Well, when I was in the moors at a lower level, creeps, which are now the highest ranks on the server, have gathered up low level (since leve 10 plus can go to moors) and gathered up easy points, when I came back there at level 60, I am pretty sure I saw a rank 5 reaver, at the same time there were only 3 rank 4s freeps on our server. Not saying its cheating, welll it kinda is, but still..
    See going back to Sabuga's quote, Well 90% of you guys never let ranged classes get much damamge out if you are a warleader/reaver/warg, I see the warg has its abilities, but still when fighting a hunter you guys act like noobs and keep running back and fourth so we cannot shoot, even with stuns and needful haste equipped.. YOu say you want for fair fights, then how about you stop whimping out and fight face to face? Too afraid you will lose? Whats it to you dying? Running 50 meters back from your rez...
    I was fighting creeps all last week, I would run in on a 2 versus 2 fight, and those 2 creeps kept running around (btw was with a level 50 minstrel, so dont see what was unfair about it) and it took maybe 3-4 minutes for you to call up a freep and say "Hey come on and help me, I am too big of a whimp to fight even fights, even when one is level 50"
    Yeah, lets have some fair fights now, the keeps going back and fourth dont really matter, keeps are just keeps, I do think it is fair that we ahve TR and you guys have Lugs for the rez points, just so we can runback faster, including that you guys can map any where you want to whenever you want to. SOrry jacbo, that most of that wasn't for your Quote
    Khium Nibin
    Where to start with this. First off we have 1 rank 5 reaver on this server. He just got rank 5 like 2 days ago. In total we have 2 rank 5 creeps (both within the last 2 days). There are 4 rank 5 Freeps , one of which is really close to six. Check the leader boards. Not sure what you are talking about.

    Next, let me try to understand your argument about facing a hunter. You want people to stand in front of you and let you kill them? I'm not sure if this makes sense. This sounds like farming. Of course I am going to move around and try to keep you from hitting me. If you knew how to play your Hunter you would prevent me from getting anywhere near you by using slows and kiting. When I am engaged with another player you stand up on the little ledge in TA, way out of reach, and pew-pew everyone. Seriously? You do this and then talk about fair play. Of course we are going to stay out of range and make you come out of your NPC's. This makes me lol.

    Now, you run up on a 2v2 and wonder why the creeps who are now fighting 3 vs 2 would run? Hmm, makes sense. I see freeps on this server running even when having superior numbers. I was fighting 2 freeps and almost had one dead before they ran into the one shots. I will never fault someone for running if they are out numbered. If you have numbers it is your job to bring the fight. Not hide in the one shots or other NPC's.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/072060000000b3089/signature.png]Atate[/charsig]

  10. #10
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    Re: Good fights

    Quote Originally Posted by Saboga View Post
    Where to start with this. First off we have 1 rank 5 reaver on this server. He just got rank 5 like 2 days ago. In total we have 2 rank 5 creeps (both within the last 2 days). There are 4 rank 5 Freeps , one of which is really close to six. Check the leader boards. Not sure what you are talking about.

    Next, let me try to understand your argument about facing a hunter. You want people to stand in front of you and let you kill them? I'm not sure if this makes sense. This sounds like farming. Of course I am going to move around and try to keep you from hitting me. If you knew how to play your Hunter you would prevent me from getting anywhere near you by using slows and kiting. When I am engaged with another player you stand up on the little ledge in TA, way out of reach, and pew-pew everyone. Seriously? You do this and then talk about fair play. Of course we are going to stay out of range and make you come out of your NPC's. This makes me lol.

    Now, you run up on a 2v2 and wonder why the creeps who are now fighting 3 vs 2 would run? Hmm, makes sense. I see freeps on this server running even when having superior numbers. I was fighting 2 freeps and almost had one dead before they ran into the one shots. I will never fault someone for running if they are out numbered. If you have numbers it is your job to bring the fight. Not hide in the one shots or other NPC's.
    Well you are talking about torment kinship, they raid is kinda wierd like and not my kin of raiding, when I raid (group) I got with maybe up to 5 guys for the points if you know what I mean...
    But for that last paragraph you put, I said 2 versus 2, and again I said a level 50 minstrel was with me, and that black arrow and warg kept runnign away.. Otherwise, what your talking about is the big raid, if you want fair points (different from fair fights) then what you should be doing, is running 2man 3man or solo, you get mroe points, plus you are likely fighting 2-3 people and one being level 50!!! Which is kinda funny to me, though that warg couldnt kill that 50 minstrel for some reason, not to sure, but it could have been my bestie hunter skill, If I say so myself.
    Otherwise, yeah, but I will say this, wait about 2 months till this server gets more people, also stop ch134(cheatings) *cough for points

    Khium Nibin

  11. #11

    Re: Good fights

    Quote Originally Posted by Khium View Post
    You know Turbine officially made Creeps tougher than freeps... Believe it or not 1 on 1 gives you many more points then 10 on 10 or whatever. 1 solo kill for both sides is normally 100 Reknown or whatever the creep one is called (not to sure)..

    Khium Nibin
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Pls, pls, pls make a creep! You will take back what you said here real quick... (I am assuming you don't have one based on the latter half of this quote)


    Quote Originally Posted by Khium View Post
    See going back to Sabuga's quote, Well 90% of you guys never let ranged classes get much damamge out if you are a warleader/reaver/warg, I see the warg has its abilities, but still when fighting a hunter you guys act like noobs and keep running back and fourth so we cannot shoot, even with stuns and needful haste equipped.. YOu say you want for fair fights, then how about you stop whimping out and fight face to face? Too afraid you will lose? Whats it to you dying? Running 50 meters back from your rez...

    Khium Nibin
    All I can say is LOL... My rank 7 reaver on Gladden gets his butt destroyed by hunters 1v1 if they are really skilled ><...Maybe the first creep you should create is a reaver... so you can take this back even faster ^.^
    Last edited by Zoar; Dec 14 2010 at 08:38 PM.
    Chieftain Rayzr of Dwarrowdelf (Reaver)
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  12. #12
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    Re: Good fights

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoar View Post
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Pls, pls, pls make a creep! You will take back you said here real quick... (I am assuming you don't have one based on the latter half of this quote)




    All I can say is LOL... My rank 7 reaver on Gladden gets his butt destroyed by hunters 1v1 if they are really skilled ><...Maybe the first creep you should create is a reaver... so you can take this back even faster ^.^
    I have a rank 2 on this server, and a rank 5 on firefoot too, hehe I know

  13. #13

    Re: Good fights

    Quote Originally Posted by Khium View Post
    I have a rank 2 on this server, and a rank 5 on firefoot too, hehe I know
    O.O Don't tell me you fight hunters standing right in front of them... Thats kinda... oh I don't know... noobish? That just benefits the hunter, not you... in real war, your enemy doesn't fight conveniently just so you can gain renown amongst your peers ><
    Chieftain Rayzr of Dwarrowdelf (Reaver)
    Footman Sakeri of Dwarrowdelf (Captain)

  14. #14

    Re: Good fights

    To address a few things...

    Creep/Freep Rankings

    They can be viewed here, just change the server to Dwarrowdelf and filter by Free People or Servants of the Eye. They went without update for a while but finally were updated yesterday.

    There are 16 creep 'regulars' Rank 3 or above that have been on some time in the last week, 8 of them Rank 4 and 2 of them Rank 5. There are 10-12 freep 'regulars' Rank 3 or above that have been on some time in the last week, 7 of them Rank 4 and 3 of them Rank 5. So the numbers are fairly even in terms of ranks, though the creeps have double or more regulars as we go down lower in ranks.

    Earning Renown/Infamy

    It might seem 'ideal' to fight in smaller groups if the only concern is personal renown or infamy, but it is hardly so. Fighting in very small groups means a lack of class composition, which is really where freeps start to be able to compete because the strengths of each class play off each other. When Chaco and I were out there we got a few kills for 40 or 80 renown each, but only when we tactically divided and conquered, because we simply lacked the bulk healing, burst DPS, and most importantly crowd control that's necessary to burn through 8k morale of someone turning tail.

    Furthermore there are rarely enough fights or 'subconsciously agreed upon battlegrounds' for everyone to go off and do their own thing. Usually the action is in at most 1-2 areas, so you just have multiple small fellows unorganized and on different renown/infamy tables which doesn't do anyone any good. The renown/infamy per kill goes down when in a raid, but more people are dying left and right and it's much more likely for people to say "hey here's the battleground, I'm running back there" if it's an all-out brawl than if they just hit a random 2v2 over near an outpost. Hence you get longer battles and more renown/infamy per time spent out there.

    One-vs-One and Two-vs-Two

    Not especially viable. I can sympathize with folks not wanting to 1v1 me since if I want to shield trait and turtle I can keep myself up long enough to whittle someone down(I usually go spear because it's more fun, or fist when I want to be a pest). But the bigger problem is there's no way to stop other people from intervening, or for those people to know you don't want them to. I had a nice 1v1 going with Sno's creep(I made sure to sit on my horse near him til he decided to fight me), and while I was winning it was not terribly imbalanced, but a Gilarian-spider-gank mid-fight quickly saw an end to that.

    The only way for this type of fight to work would be if devs implemented something like spars in the Moors. If they put a 25% renown penalty on it(since solo renown is pretty high and could be abused) and capped the number of spars you could engage in per hour or with specific players, it could add another interesting facet to the game. Likelihood of this happening: nil. Hence I'll run in groups since I don't find it fun to waste my time searching out one or two to fight only to have that number double.

    Tactical Retreats

    One of the main causes of these stems from the way that the devs have made PvMP work. 75% of the damage is the result of stuns/dazes/roots and DoTs. Very little of the damage creeps deal is upfront damage that can be gauged effectively and responded to accordingly. When you have 3 wounds and 2 poisons on you and can cure a whopping 1 every half a minute or whatever the CD on pots is, you can't stay in the front too long because you simply can't gauge how much of your morale bar is already compromised. Hence folks walk outside, get a couple DoTs on them(at ample range), and especially for the squishier classes this means time to run to shake them off.
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  15. #15
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    Re: Good fights

    Most servers have designated Candy Mountain as a 1v1 zone. This is the mountain directly north of the TR Rez point. I say we do the same thing. If you happen across a fight on said mountain, be respectful and stay out. We can set something up to where we have 1v1 fights up there some time. It would be interesting to see how the fights go when it is 1v1.

    Most of the rules other servers use up there are;
    no interference from other players (violates will be killed immediately by the other side)
    no outside heals (pots/man heals/personal heals only)
    no buffs that you can not apply yourself (no cappy buffs unless you are one)
    no interference when someone is being rezed

    What do you guys think? Comments.

    Also, if you happen across a fight involving a 1v1, while allowed, it is considered rude to interfered. Be respectful to the other players in the moors.
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  16. #16
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    Re: Good fights

    Quote Originally Posted by Saboga View Post
    Most servers have designated Candy Mountain as a 1v1 zone. This is the mountain directly north of the TR Rez point. I say we do the same thing. If you happen across a fight on said mountain, be respectful and stay out. We can set something up to where we have 1v1 fights up there some time. It would be interesting to see how the fights go when it is 1v1.

    Most of the rules other servers use up there are;
    no interference from other players (violates will be killed immediately by the other side)
    no outside heals (pots/man heals/personal heals only)
    no buffs that you can not apply yourself (no cappy buffs unless you are one)
    no interference when someone is being rezed

    What do you guys think? Comments.

    Also, if you happen across a fight involving a 1v1, while allowed, it is considered rude to interfered. Be respectful to the other players in the moors.
    That is a good idea, but knowing reavers and wargs and spiders, hunters dont have a chance to it, and the lack of many classes, i am not sure how it will turn out, though if you fight a loremaster You may jst lose
    Also-its not candy mountain I believe its Blood Mountains, plus Who wants to go to a Candy Mountain?
    Khium Nibin

  17. #17

    Re: Good fights

    It's Candy Mountain on 3 servers that I play on.

  18. #18
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    Re: Good fights

    you know about thous arguments... my lvl 51 guard was cutting down creeps (thats a 14 lvl diffrence) earlier this week and taking hardly any damage. Yes I did do a bit of kiting in npc's the majority of the time but when I did go out and 1v1 I did deal some decent dmg and killed one guy 1v1. If a lvl 51 can kill a creep and the freeps complain cause they mass I dont see the issue? when I play my creep I love it, the challenge of killing sno or healthedps is fun.

    GANKING IS PART OF world PVP GET OVER IT, its in every game and always will be.

    The npc thing is kinda boring, we had some awesome fights, even when we scared the freeps **** less when we jumped em near the end. Hopefully I can get my guard up to 60+ this week and really do some dmg on the freep side when the creeps over power them
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