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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    11
    Yes, that's true. I don't postulate that currently it wouldn't scale according to the number of players in the fellowship. In fact, what I understood from certain blogs, there should be no IG already with the group of 5 (but this information might be outdated; I have never had the chance to check this in game). What I am suggesting based on my own experiences with not so strong group, is simply to tone the scaling or the buff, so that it becomes weaker than it is now. Or that it is made optional instead of automatic.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumikko View Post
    Yes, that's true. I don't postulate that currently it wouldn't scale according to the number of players in the fellowship. In fact, what I understood from certain blogs, there should be no IG already with the group of 5 (but this information might be outdated; I have never had the chance to check this in game). What I am suggesting based on my own experiences with not so strong group, is simply to tone the scaling or the buff, so that it becomes weaker than it is now. Or that it is made optional instead of automatic.
    It is not possible provide what you want.

    For the olderEpic six person group instances they were balanced for a party of six containing a trinity core - DPS - Healer and Tank. The instances were nerfed to make them doable by a double strength (Inspired Greatness of 100%) single role character like a Hunter (DPS). You go into the instance with three characters each at 1.6 firepower. You are at 4.8 versus an instance designed for 2.0. Lets say you have a DPS, Healer and Tank it is face roll time. A scaling like the following would never be accepted by players:

    (1 character) x (1 + 100% Inspired Greatness) = 2.0 --> Double Strength
    (2 characters) x (1 + 0% Inspired Greatness) = 2.0 --> No Buff
    (3 character) x (1 + 33% Weakness) = 2.0 --> 2/3 of Strength
    (6 characters) x (1 - 66% Weakness) = 2.0 --> 1/3 Strength

    To do it right there needs to be a solo instance designed for a single character. There needs to be the original pre nerf version for any group larger than 1 that is designed for a party of six. This design what was used in Book 1 and Book 2 of Volume 1. Turbine decided creating a solo version of each Epic Instance was too expensive so they went to the solo instance with Inspired Greatness which results in a face roll for groups. Where the table is number of characters and total character strength

    1 --> 2
    2 --> 3.6
    3 --> 4.8
    4 --> 5.6
    5 --> 6.0
    6 --> 6.0

    As a reminder all these instances are designed for total character strength of 2 which occurs with 1 character.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    11
    Thank you for your post! You're certainly right, no doubt about that. I had no idea that Turbine had ALSO nerfed the instances so thoroughly down the line in addition to providing the buff. Then there is really no way the level of difficulty can be raised, as you said, without costly redesign. This realization *does* hurt me a bit. However, wouldn't it at least alleviate issue, if the group or the group leader could choose whether or not they actually want buff on, when starting the instance? Already being able to avoid the buff would yield much more reasonable match with group power and difficulty of the instance, since the numbers could then be like this:

    1 player (w/ buff) -> 2.0
    2 players (w/o buff) -> 2.0 (vs. current 3.6 buffed)
    3 players (w/o buff) -> 3.0 (vs. current 4.8 buffed)
    4 players (w/o buff) -> 4.0 (vs. current 5.6 buffed)
    5 players (w/o buff) -> 5.0 (vs. current 6.0 buffed)

    This kind of system would at least make the system a bit more appropiate? Would the switching system at the start be impossible to implement?

  4. #29
    Two points I want to make on this revived topic...

    Despite the revamp, they never did class balance them so there are certain classes (regardless of trait line) that will struggle even with it toned down solo.

    There is also one other factor I do not recall being mentioned: I know at least some (if not many) have very different spawns from when you do the solo version versus the fellowship (Retaking Weathertop is the one that stands out in my mind the strongest here because I've done it a lot recently, but I know it's not the only one.) So that would require further jiggering as well with a revamp.

    On a related note, I'd love it if they toned down the visual effect of what some of us call the Stupid Aura of Undefeatedness--usually when we're almost a full fellow and all glowing strobey and can't find other bodies to fill the fellow to make it go away that stay wherever they are (I think someone mentioned that here, that one way to make it go away even with partial parties is to fellow with enough other friends even if they're just off crafting or whatever.)

    Ah. And I forget who mentioned it, but epics can be repeated for marks of triumph in many areas. Just look for a person standing near a reflecting pool in the co-ordinating region. They do have a week cool down for the triumph quests, and it rarely makes sense to repeat them RP wise, but I have used the marks many times for lowish to mid level pots and things as well as finishing certain deeds (trolls when running around with Legolas all glowy also makes for a quick mathom rep item and coin run with little bag space needed, for instance.) So I see the point of them being a one time deal RP wise, but they do have other uses besides being able to take the sights in when you're higher level than needed.

    But I'm digressing all over the place now...
    Club Éclair-Second Servings members are at 20 trainings or below.
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  5. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaming_Gal View Post
    Two points I want to make on this revived topic...

    Despite the revamp, they never did class balance them so there are certain classes (regardless of trait line) that will struggle even with it toned down solo.
    Yeah, ararax2 listed aspects of this issue on the end of page 1. Relating to that post, might it be a good idea to modify the buff so, that it also decreases inductions according to the scaling (so currently 100 %, 80 %, 60 %, 40 %, 20 % and 0 % decrease in inductions for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 players, respectively)? That would at least make LM more viable, don't know enough of the class to say for Hunter or Burglar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaming_Gal View Post
    There is also one other factor I do not recall being mentioned: I know at least some (if not many) have very different spawns from when you do the solo version versus the fellowship (Retaking Weathertop is the one that stands out in my mind the strongest here because I've done it a lot recently, but I know it's not the only one.) So that would require further jiggering as well with a revamp.
    This might be, I don't know. But if I understood Yula's post correctly, ALL instances from Vol. 1 Book 3 onwards should be solo versions ONLY, regardless if you run them with fellowship or not. In fact, I don't recall seeing any spawns at least in the instances of book 4 and book 5. Book 3 was so long ago I'm not able to reliably comment on that.

    Adding to my previous post, if adding a switch at the starting of the instance for the buff is out of the option (which I understand, because it would probably involve quite a bit of programming), then how about simply editing the existing scaling function, which is now used to first determine the number of players and then setting the buff ON? So that instead of scaling series of 100-80-60-40-20-0 it would be 100-50-25-0-0-0. Then the buff and player numbers combined would yield:

    1 (100 % buff) -> 2.0
    2 (50 % buff) -> 3.0
    3 (25 % buff) -> 3.75
    4 (0 % buff) -> 4.0 and so forth , assuming the instance requiring 2.0.

    I thought this might be the best option, in case the 2-person or 3-person group has somehow sub-optimal class combination. Any comments on this? Or am I simply an Old-Fashioned Fool of a loud minority, and everyone is just soloing the Epics through these days?
    Last edited by Lumikko; Oct 21 2013 at 04:07 AM.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Gallifrey. I need a Jelly Baby.
    Posts
    18,359
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaming_Gal View Post
    Two points I want to make on this revived topic...

    Despite the revamp, they never did class balance them so there are certain classes (regardless of trait line) that will struggle even with it toned down solo.

    .
    This is true. I have twice had a high level burg ask my guard for help in one of the epic quests in Angmar so I could draw aggro. The burg was never in danger of dying, it was just the constant interrupts from multiple mobs that made it a hassle.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
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