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  1. #51
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    Jul 2007
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    858

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    I've seen a lot of conjecture in a couple of threads about the purpose of the survey, with cries of ageism and other purported slights orchestrated by Turbine. What I don't really see much of is people asking logical questions such as, "Is it possible Turbine already has enough information from my age/gender/household income/insert other specific demographic here?", or "I wonder if this survey is targeted at a group which does not, for whatever reason, include me because I'm not part of the audience they might be trying to reach with Product X/Service Y/Advertisement Z?"

    What if Turbine is getting ready to advertise more on G4 TV? The the G4 demographic is mostly male, and covers mostly the ages of 18-29. If Turbine is looking for feedback that fits those demographics then are they REALLY being discriminatory? Or are they trying to spend the company's marketing & research dollars efficiently? Should I, as a 34 year-old female, get mad at Turbine because they exclude me from such a survey with accusations of ageism and/or sexism, or should I maybe use my common sense and logical brain to realize that I am the exception, not the rule, when it comes to G4 TV viewers, and that G4 TV will never gear their advertising to 30-something women? Unless a large enough group of 30-something year old females ever become G4 TV viewers - which is very unlikely to ever happen - Turbine shouldn't waste their time and money researching my group in relation to G4 TV regarding a new ad campaign.

    The above paragraph is just one hypothetical example, but rushing to accuse Turbine of ageism/sexism/any other -ism, based on exclusion from a marketing survey is, frankly, an overly dramatic and victim-mentality response. It screams, "What about ME!?" Sure, Turbine should have pre-screened the players to be included in the survey introductory e-mail better in the first place, but poor marketing practices are not indicative of discrimination.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Decatur, AL
    Posts
    5,545

    Re: Be cautious

    Quote Originally Posted by omniscient View Post
    3.) I traced back further into the header information. "eigbox.net" is NOT a good site. It is very well known among security domains as a malware site (www.siteadvisor.com/sites/eigbox.net/summary).
    I finally got the survey today and was able to take a look at the headers myself.

    I was unable to find the string "eigbox.net" in my headers. Where exactly was this string located in yours?


    Quote Originally Posted by ButrBiscut View Post
    The above paragraph is just one hypothetical example, but rushing to accuse Turbine of ageism/sexism/any other -ism, based on exclusion from a marketing survey is, frankly, an overly dramatic and victim-mentality response. It screams, "What about ME!?" Sure, Turbine should have pre-screened the players to be included in the survey introductory e-mail better in the first place, but poor marketing practices are not indicative of discrimination.
    QFT. Also, it looks like they sent this survey out in batches.
    Last edited by Brandon_Blackbird; Oct 31 2010 at 04:08 PM.
    If you give away gold bars, someone will complain they're too heavy.
    .: Dannach, 100 WDN :.: Daire, 83 LMR :.: Gyrefalcon, 92 CHN :.: Brandon, 72 CPT :.: Honey, 71 GRD :.: Griffon, 69 HNT :.: Kaelenea, 72 RNK :.
    .: Iryth, 56 WDN :.: Baye, 56 WDN :.: Samtal, 64 WDN :.:Dunnock, 56 WDN :.: Sedgewald, 68 LMR :.: Breyon, 41 CHN :.: Tieran, 50 HNT :.

    I am the master of my fate. I am the captain of my soul.
    Might as well face it, I'm addicted to WDN

  3. #53
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    Oct 2007
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    498

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    Well it would be lovely if a blue name would pop up and at least offer a one-line response if the survey is legit or not. Has one commented in this thread yet, re: the issue? Did I miss it? Personally, I don't think that's asking too much under such circumstances...because a whole lot of people could get this thing, click on it, and not know either way what they're being sent into other than "kthanx for visiting our site, ur not qualified but look at the **** we left on ur computer! enjoy!" Now plz 'scuse me while I scrub my harddrive with pixel bleach, since this game doesn't allow for authenticators. I've been playin' since '07. I'd like to keep my meager belongings and what lil' gold I still have left after grinding up another crafting toon, kthnx.

    What? I was lazy and bought 90% of it off the AH. >_> slackerisms FTW!

    Srsly tho, its kinda silly to let it get to page 4 already and not say anything, or at least offer a notice that surveys -were- being sent out. Me thinks that they're skewing too low in their demographics, or too narrow at the very least. I'd like a survey that reflects a wider margin, in which I could possibly be included and give my input. So if it is legit, maybe they need a new company to survey thru and not make it age-based. There's too many older folks who game now, because it's a more affordable option as far as stay-at-home entertainment goes.
    Last edited by Umbrael; Oct 31 2010 at 04:55 PM.

  4. #54
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    Jul 2007
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    858

    Re: Be cautious

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon_Blackbird View Post
    Also, it looks like they sent this survey out in batches.
    Good observation. It also reminds me of another point I didn't bring up in my previous post. Even though Turbine may have its own marketing department, that doesn't mean that their marketing department fulfills every possible marketing function. There are many, many companies out there which specialize in marketing research & surveys, and their services are cheaper for Turbine to utilize than hiring more employees to do the same thing in-house.

    So one more possibility worth considering logically: maybe it's the marketing company that screwed up, and not Turbine, when it came to sending out the survey invitation e-mails.

  5. #55
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    Mar 2007
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    10,510

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    The fail on Turbine's part appears to be one of sending out the survey late on a Friday so that most people who get it and/or post questions about it on the forums would do so while Turbine's offices are closed for the weekend.

    Presumably, there will be at least a few answers forthcoming Monday morning, or, at the very least, a bunch of closed or deleted threads.

    --W. H. Heydt

    Old Used Programmer

  6. #56
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    Oct 2007
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    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    The fail on Turbine's part appears to be one of sending out the survey late on a Friday so that most people who get it and/or post questions about it on the forums would do so while Turbine's offices are closed for the weekend.

    Presumably, there will be at least a few answers forthcoming Monday morning, or, at the very least, a bunch of closed or deleted threads.

    --W. H. Heydt

    Old Used Programmer
    Good point, that I totally overlooked. It appears tho that chaos reigns supreme on the weekends. THE FORUMS ARE OURS. ;P Heehee!

    Heckuva time for surveys to go out. Hopefully they are legit. *keeps fingers crossed* Never can tell, these days.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    260

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    at the very least, a bunch of closed or deleted threads.

    --W. H. Heydt

    Old Used Programmer
    Heres hoping, right?

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    127

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DasFlannel View Post
    I was reminded, several times, during the survey, that I was under an NDA (non-disclosure agreement) backed by the full wrath of a horde of lawyers, it was actually kind of scary.
    "Don't tell anyone or you'll get in trouble" sounds fishy to me. Of course you won't tell anyone, even Turbine right? If it was a scam then Turbine wouldn't find out about it until it was too late because no one said anything.

    Turbine should put surveys in game, let us do them here at my.lotro, and/or at our Turbine account. Three easy ways which are FAR SAFER than any e-mailing spam disguised as a survey. If their 'survey' reaches my e-mail it'll be deleted, just like every other spam mail.

  9. #59
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    Aug 2010
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    260

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eirien View Post
    Turbine should put surveys in game
    Listen to this one, turbine.

    Just dont make it as annoying as the skirmish horn.. We know you like counterattacks to have our unflinching attention.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    A village, Canada
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    787

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eirien View Post
    "Don't tell anyone or you'll get in trouble" sounds fishy to me. Of course you won't tell anyone, even Turbine right? If it was a scam then Turbine wouldn't find out about it until it was too late because no one said anything.
    An NDA in a survey is actually pretty standard procedure. I've participated in a few legit surveys over the years, that I'm not supposed to disclose. Part of the reason for this is, if a company is working on a concept for a new product or service, they might not want word to get out too soon. Another reason is because your responses or your reaction to the content of the survey might skew the responses of someone you know (or in our case, a whole bunch of people reading the forums). It helps to avoid hassles in the long run if the planned new concept doesn't work out, etc. etc.

    As for the rest of your post, I agree, having something through a familiar medium such as our my.lotro or the forums or even in-game would be less likely to cause confusion and/or deletion of the survey by qualified respondents.
    Is it festival time yet?
    Carysta Littlefoot, Silverlode

  11. #61

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    Huh, I didn't receive any offer for a survey. Maybe I'm too low level?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/03202000000334976/signature.png]Kellymae[/charsig]

  12. #62

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    Well, count me as another failed survey taker. I got it and made it past the initial questions, got to the point where I needed the plugin... no 64 bit support? Seriously Turbine? But just just out of curiosity I went to a different, 32 bit computer, installed the plugin and gave it a try. And the survey won't resume. Just tells you to click a link to continue, then nothing.

    Fail survey is fail.
    [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/merayn/]Merayn[/url], [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/merras/]Merras[/url], [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/merad/]Merad[/url], [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/meradoci/]Meradoci[/url], [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/merali/]Merali[/url]

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Sterling Heights, MI, U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,787

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon_Blackbird View Post
    Did you completely skip MY post?

    Please, for the love of pie, someone post a header from the survey email.
    ok here it is

    from The Lord of the Rings Online <newsletter@turbine.com>
    reply-to newsletter@turbine.com
    to My Email Address
    date Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 9:19 AM
    subject LOTRO - We Want to Make LOTRO Even Better!
    mailed-by returnpath.bluehornet.com
    signed-by bluehornet.com
    unsubscribe Unsubscribe from this sender


    My email client is Gmail


    Happy now

    edited to fix format and make it human readable
    Last edited by Gandolf_TheOld; Oct 31 2010 at 07:07 PM.
    Ujest - 105 Lore-master, Opun Tia - 87 Warden, Cneasai - 46 Minstrel, Veneur - 50 Hunter plus alts and mules
    Kinship Leader Pipeweed and Ale, Arkenstone (formerly Friends of Frodo, Vilya)

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    127

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carysta View Post
    An NDA in a survey is actually pretty standard procedure. I've participated in a few legit surveys over the years, that I'm not supposed to disclose.
    Oh I know why the NDA is there. Just that it's too easy for someone to say "NDA this and that" which is easier for scammers to hide behind and/or buy enough time before a victim realizes they've been had.

    That's why I push, and I'm glad you agree, that Turbine should be doing surveys where it's easier/safer to reach the player base.

    For an example, Aion is one game which had (or maybe still does) survey icons you could click when available. Right inside your UI. It would pop up a special window when clicked and you could fill it out on your own time such as inbetween mob pulls. It was out of the way (you could close it and restart if you needed) and relatively quick with whatever topic was surveyed.

    Something like that, imo would be very welcome and likely help the player base feel they're being listened to. Not this supposed e-mail marketing/scam/trick which cuts off a person's entry because they don't fit a certain age/sex/?? bracket.

    That aside...Happy Halloween, all!

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Decatur, AL
    Posts
    5,545

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    If they really want people to take surveys, put them in the game and offer TP as a reward. End of issues
    If you give away gold bars, someone will complain they're too heavy.
    .: Dannach, 100 WDN :.: Daire, 83 LMR :.: Gyrefalcon, 92 CHN :.: Brandon, 72 CPT :.: Honey, 71 GRD :.: Griffon, 69 HNT :.: Kaelenea, 72 RNK :.
    .: Iryth, 56 WDN :.: Baye, 56 WDN :.: Samtal, 64 WDN :.:Dunnock, 56 WDN :.: Sedgewald, 68 LMR :.: Breyon, 41 CHN :.: Tieran, 50 HNT :.

    I am the master of my fate. I am the captain of my soul.
    Might as well face it, I'm addicted to WDN

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    761

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    I got a good laugh out of it. I answered as honestly as I could, age 50+, gender M, Game interests etc. Got clear to the NDA, clicked accept and got the boot. I have to assume that being willing to abide by a NDA was a disqualifier.

    Which, judging from some threads during Beta, is probably par for the course.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/012030000001140ed/01007/signature.png]Intombi[/charsig]

  17. #67
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    Aug 2009
    Posts
    761

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Umbrael View Post
    Well it would be lovely if a blue name would pop up and at least offer a one-line response if the survey is legit or not. Has one commented in this thread yet, re: the issue? Did I miss it? Personally, I don't think that's asking too much under such circumstances...because a whole lot of people could get this thing, click on it, and not know either way what they're being sent into other than "kthanx for visiting our site, ur not qualified but look at the **** we left on ur computer! enjoy!" Now plz 'scuse me while I scrub my harddrive with pixel bleach, since this game doesn't allow for authenticators. I've been playin' since '07. I'd like to keep my meager belongings and what lil' gold I still have left after grinding up another crafting toon, kthnx.

    What? I was lazy and bought 90% of it off the AH. >_> slackerisms FTW!

    Srsly tho, its kinda silly to let it get to page 4 already and not say anything, or at least offer a notice that surveys -were- being sent out. Me thinks that they're skewing too low in their demographics, or too narrow at the very least. I'd like a survey that reflects a wider margin, in which I could possibly be included and give my input. So if it is legit, maybe they need a new company to survey thru and not make it age-based. There's too many older folks who game now, because it's a more affordable option as far as stay-at-home entertainment goes.
    I don't think they put much effort into the forums anymore, doubt if we see anything here from anyone, we are all here just talking to each other and listening to the echoes.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/012030000001140ed/01007/signature.png]Intombi[/charsig]

  18. #68
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    356

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    I'm kind of suprised that so many had the first response in thinking that Turbine was being rude/had bad practices. No.... "kind of suprised" doesn't cut it. I'm absolutely blown away that everyone's first reaction was not "oh! This is a spoofed letter and they are phishing."

    The organization has an entire forum dedicated to polling its members, and had solidified procedures for those who test advanced content. There has been no talk of any sort of e-mailed poll. E-mail is a non-secure form of communication. Sending an NDA attached to taking a survey through email, where you do not know who has access to the email, is less than worthless.

    I don't think this is an issue of Turbine having bad polling practices.

    I am more inclined to think that any of you who actually clicked on this thing and went through any part of it need to update and run your virus scan, and you need to change your passwords.
    Eleyan Al'Landerin
    Fearless Leader of Nossecemna
    Players Council Member
    Minstrel of Meneldor

  19. #69
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    Decatur, AL
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    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    Quote Originally Posted by bondgirl51 View Post
    I'm kind of suprised that so many had the first response in thinking that Turbine was being rude/had bad practices. No.... "kind of suprised" doesn't cut it. I'm absolutely blown away that everyone's first reaction was not "oh! This is a spoofed letter and they are phishing."

    The organization has an entire forum dedicated to polling its members, and had solidified procedures for those who test advanced content. There has been no talk of any sort of e-mailed poll. E-mail is a non-secure form of communication. Sending an NDA attached to taking a survey through email, where you do not know who has access to the email, is less than worthless.

    I don't think this is an issue of Turbine having bad polling practices.

    I am more inclined to think that any of you who actually clicked on this thing and went through any part of it need to update and run your virus scan, and you need to change your passwords.
    They don't always announce when there's a survey.

    It's weekend at the Turbine offices, we'll probably hear something from a blue name tomorrow.

    The headers from the email match previous emails sent from Turbine.

    The NDA isn't in the email. The survey isn't in the email. There's a link to a survey in the email (which can be viewed via the lotro.com servers). For those who qualify to take the survey, they get the NDA message, which is used by many survey companies who do market testing. I have to agree to NDAs all the time by legitimate survey companies for products that aren't on the market yet. It's normal practice.

    Avast doesn't think there's anything wrong with the email, the survey link, OR the download (NOT a browser plugin). McAfee doesn't find anything wrong with the survey site.

    So, does anyone have any proof that this is a spoofed, phishing, or otherwise bad email? Any of you who took the survey and installed the plugin have any virus warnings or odd activity now?
    If you give away gold bars, someone will complain they're too heavy.
    .: Dannach, 100 WDN :.: Daire, 83 LMR :.: Gyrefalcon, 92 CHN :.: Brandon, 72 CPT :.: Honey, 71 GRD :.: Griffon, 69 HNT :.: Kaelenea, 72 RNK :.
    .: Iryth, 56 WDN :.: Baye, 56 WDN :.: Samtal, 64 WDN :.:Dunnock, 56 WDN :.: Sedgewald, 68 LMR :.: Breyon, 41 CHN :.: Tieran, 50 HNT :.

    I am the master of my fate. I am the captain of my soul.
    Might as well face it, I'm addicted to WDN

  20. #70

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    Well, as I've mentioned in another thread, I'm 43 and male and got from beginning to the end of the survey.

    I'm not sure age or sex had anything to do with it. Maybe some mix of age, sex and education? don't know.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000000d47f/01008/signature.png]Sovrath[/charsig]

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    858

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    I received the e-mail to take the survey, and it passed muster not only when I personally inspected it, but it also passed muster with my F-Secure browser security integration tool. I was quite comfortable taking the survey, and I used an older laptop to do so, since this thread made me aware of the 64-bit OS limitation, and I was willing to install the required download on an easily re-formatted machine, if it had come to that. It did not.

    I have to say, even though I did not qualify to continue taking the survey beyond the point when the NDA confirmation was required, it's VERY clear to me that based on the number of questions asked up to that point, and the variation in the types of questions, that any assertion of discrimination on the part of Turbine is out right ridiculous.

    Age & gender were cursory questions at the beginning, standard for any survey. It's unreasonable to assume that either response would be what would disqualify someone from continuing later in the survey, especially considering all the variables involved with all those different types of questions. There were checkboxes, radio buttons, even fill-in boxes, and any number of single- or multiple-choice questions to answer. Why anyone would assume ageism as the basis for disqualification in that survey I will never understand, it's absurdly silly.

    I do think that a survey tool integrated into LOTRO's UI is probably the best option, but that implies that Turbine does or would collect, organize and analyze all its own data, which is unlikely at this point in time. Possibly Turbine could work with an outside company to make an integrated tool work, which would be pretty cool. Awarding TPs for survey completion is a smart idea too.

    Lastly, the information I provided up to the point of disqualification is still a hefty amount of marketing & demographics info. It's not like getting disqualified from the final portion was a complete waste of my time, or Turbine's. I had a chance to share some of my preferences with Turbine about a few things, and my answers to roughly 30-some-odd questions will go in the pile with the answers of other people to (hopefully) be used to good effect by Turbine to make LOTRO better.

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    10,510

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ButrBiscut View Post
    Lastly, the information I provided up to the point of disqualification is still a hefty amount of marketing & demographics info. It's not like getting disqualified from the final portion was a complete waste of my time, or Turbine's. I had a chance to share some of my preferences with Turbine about a few things, and my answers to roughly 30-some-odd questions will go in the pile with the answers of other people to (hopefully) be used to good effect by Turbine to make LOTRO better.
    You are assuming that they're keeping the data collected on responses that get disqualified. I can't think of anything that would support that assumption.

    --W. H. Heydt

    Old Used Programmer

  23. #73
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    Jul 2007
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    858

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    You are assuming that they're keeping the data collected on responses that get disqualified. I can't think of anything that would support that assumption.

    --W. H. Heydt

    Old Used Programmer
    Turbine certainly does some seemingly stupid stuff at times. It would be idiotic of them to toss the pre-NDA data, but it could happen.

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    3 Harrow Road, Clapfoot Homestead, The Shire
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    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    I had misgiving about installing the plugin as well. I double-checked that the e-mail originated with Turbine (it did), and after checking on the source of the plugin, I went ahead and installed it.

    At one point, it opened a free-text box but locked up both my wireless and wired keyboards...not just for the browser, but for the system! As soon as I quit the browser, functionality returned to the KB's. I typed my response in WordPad and then started the browser back up, and cut-pasted the response into the box and clicked the "Continue" button. Thereafter it ran with no problems. Nevertheless, after I finished the survey, I disabled the plugin. Don't need THAT particular bugaboo lurking in the background to wreak havoc.

    For those concerned that you missed something...you didn't. No pictures, no earth-shattering news, nothing. They asked some rather pointed questions about LOTRO, the LOTRO Store, etc. And that was it. Much ado over nothing. Not even sure what the NDA was supposed to be protecting; nothing was revealed, hinted at, or otherwise disclosed of a sensitive nature. At all.

    The only thing I noticed was that they under-estimated how long of a time commitment the survey itself would take. Of course, I took a bit longer because of having to check the credentials of the plugin. But even so, the survey took closer to an hour to complete, and not the 15 minutes they claimed. Best to be forthright with those time estimates in the future; I'm not so sure I'm going to be ready to sacrifice that much time the next instance I get invited to one of these online surveys as a result.
    Weeeeeeee're baaaaaaack! :)

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Cottondale Alabama
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    1,473

    Re: Why offer a survey if people are "unqualified" to take it?

    And still not one blue name anywhere on this thread to say anything, or the multiple threads about this.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000000310b/01003/signature.png]Isest[/charsig]

 

 
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