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  1. #1376

    Re: Two-word Tolkien Trivia

    By the way, welcome back. It's good to have you here in JRRT again.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d00000003106c/signature.png]Celedriel[/charsig]

  2. #1377
    Carcharoth and Huan. Two wolves hunting the Silmaril. And each other.
    [I][FONT=Verdana]"[B]The wind of heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears.[/B]"[/FONT][/I] [SIZE=1]~ Bedouin Proverb[/SIZE]

  3. #1378
    Nope. Huan was hunting Carcharoth, not the Silmaril.

    Besides, the riddle has that pesky "crossword" question mark for you to deal with (meaning essentially that the answer is not straightforward).

    I will say that the Silmarils are not involved in the answer.

    That was a near miss for me, though. I knew I was getting too cute with the question.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d00000003106c/signature.png]Celedriel[/charsig]

  4. #1379
    Taking 'gem' in this case to mean 'prized' or 'best,' I'm going to say "wargs?" Or perhaps even the (were)wolves of Thu/Sauron?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0c2140000000619e4/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  5. #1380
    First thing that came to mind was Púkel-men.
    [I][FONT=Verdana]"[B]The wind of heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears.[/B]"[/FONT][/I] [SIZE=1]~ Bedouin Proverb[/SIZE]

  6. #1381
    Quote Originally Posted by Oraekja View Post
    First thing that came to mind was Púkel-men.
    Can you explain your thinking there? I am not seeing the connection.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d00000003106c/signature.png]Celedriel[/charsig]

  7. #1382
    Quote Originally Posted by knUk20 View Post
    Taking 'gem' in this case to mean 'prized' or 'best,' I'm going to say "wargs?" Or perhaps even the (were)wolves of Thu/Sauron?
    Actually, gems means gems here. Try working synonyms on the other element.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d00000003106c/signature.png]Celedriel[/charsig]

  8. #1383
    Alright. If ivory can be taken as a gem (its rare, but I don't know about calling it a 'gem'), how about the tusks of an oliphaunt?

    A second guess, along a different line of thought, would be to go canines -> wolves -> thieves, and go with Morgoth and Ungoliant stealing gems from the hoard of Feanor on their flight from Valinor.
    Last edited by knUk20; Jun 20 2012 at 02:03 PM.
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  9. #1384
    Quote Originally Posted by knUk20 View Post
    Alright. If ivory can be taken as a gem (its rare, but I don't know about calling it a 'gem'), how about the tusks of an oliphaunt?
    Good. On the right track now with the teeth concept. But gem means gem in this case, and I don't think ivory is close enough.



    In thinking about this further, I feel that I should warn the group that my intended answer is a pretty obscure element in the texts.
    Last edited by Vilnas; Jun 20 2012 at 07:41 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d00000003106c/signature.png]Celedriel[/charsig]

  10. #1385
    I've stewed on this one for a few days now, and can't come up with another guess. Anybody else?
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  11. #1386
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    Ok, new to this forum game, just found this and am fascinated reading through this thread a page at a time... Very nice.

    Going with the clues you've put forward (and the other guesses so far), I'm going to guess the Gem canines mean jewel teeth, which brings to mind Scatha the dragon, or the long worm slain by Fram who then sent the teeth of the dragon to the dwarves in place of their share of the hoard setting the stage for emnity between the dwarves and the Eothed.
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  12. #1387
    Quote Originally Posted by Elessar2007 View Post
    Ok, new to this forum game, just found this and am fascinated reading through this thread a page at a time... Very nice.

    Going with the clues you've put forward (and the other guesses so far), I'm going to guess the Gem canines mean jewel teeth, which brings to mind Scatha the dragon, or the long worm slain by Fram who then sent the teeth of the dragon to the dwarves in place of their share of the hoard setting the stage for emnity between the dwarves and the Eothed.
    Thank you. That is exactly what I had in mind. This minor lore nugget appears in RotK Appendix A, under the heading "The House of Eorl." Scatha had pillaged one of the dwarf-holds in the Grey Mountains. I do not believe it is stated exactly which one.* The forefathers of the Rohirrim had lived in those northern regions before they same south to Calenardhon (Rohan) under Eorl. Appendix A is not completely explicit about the events, but it seems clear that after Fram slew Scatha the dwarves made a claim for the return of their treasure that Scatha had stolen from them. Fram refused, and instead sent the dwarves some of Scatha's teeth, along with the message that "Jewels such as these you will not match in your treasuries, for they are hard to come by." As Elessar states in his answer, this led to war between the Éothéod and the dwarves in which Fram met his end.

    Congratulations and well done Elessar! You now have the riddle stick.

    *You may recall that Thrain I, after fleeing Moria, established Erebor as the seat of the kings of the Longbeards. [It was at this time that they discovered the Arkenstone.] However, after a short time, his son Thorin I removed the king's seat north to the Grey Mountains. After a few generations they were driven out of the Grey Mountains by cold drakes. The king Dain I was slain defending his halls, along with his middle son Fror. His eldest son, Thror, became king and returned to Erebor. The youngest son Gror took the larger part of their people and settled in the Iron Hills. It is possible that Scatha's horde belonged to Dain I, but I don't think we can conclude that for certain. I believe the texts suggest (and perhaps even make explicit) that other dwarves had also settled in the Grey Mountains during that period. In any event, it probably is safe to conclude that Thror/Gror were aware of (and perhaps participated in) the subsequent conflict with Fram.

    When I was thinking about this Fram/Scatha footnote for a riddle, it occurred to me for the first time to consider how much that incident may have influenced Thorin Oakenshield's actions vis a vis Bard and Thranduil. We have to remember that the literary conceit of The Hobbit is that it was written from Bilbo's perspective. Thorin no doubt would have related the incident differently (The Quest for Erebor in the RotK Appendices and similar material in Unfinished Tales demonstrate this concept pretty clearly). The same goes for the account of the sacking of Doriath by the dwarves of Nogrod in the Silmarillion (The Silmarillion being told from the perspective of the elves). In The Hobbit, JRRT states explicitly that the Doriath/Nauglamir conflict shaped Thorin's attitude toward Thranduil, even though it was long ago and the Longbeards had not been involved.
    Last edited by Vilnas; Jun 25 2012 at 04:34 PM.
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  13. #1388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilnas View Post
    Thank you. That is exactly what I had in mind. This minor lore nugget appears in RotK Appendix A, under the heading "The House of Eorl." Scatha had pillaged one of the dwarf-holds in the Grey Mountains. I do not believe it is stated exactly which one.* The forefathers of the Rohirrim had lived in those northern regions before they same south to Calenardhon (Rohan) under Eorl. Appendix A is not completely explicit about the events, but it seems clear that after Fram slew Scatha the dwarves made a claim for the return of their treasure that Scatha had stolen from them. Fram refused, and instead sent the dwarves some of Scatha's teeth, along with the message that "Jewels such as these you will not match in your treasuries, for they are hard to come by." As Elessar states in his answer, this led to war between the Éothéod and the dwarves in which Fram met his end.

    Congratulations and well done Elessar! You now have the riddle stick.

    *You may recall that Thrain I, after fleeing Moria established Erebor as the seat of the kings of the Longbeards. [It was at this time that they discovered the Arkenstone.] However, after a short time, his son Thorin I removed the king's seat north to the Grey Mountains. After a few generations they were driven out of the Grey Mountains by cold drakes. The king Dain I was slain defending his halls, along with his middle son Fror. His eldest son, Thror, became king and returned to Erebor. The youngest son Gror took the larger part of their people and settled in the Iron Hills. It is possible that Scatha's horde belonged to Dain I, but I don't think we can conclude that for certain. I believe the texts suggest (and perhaps even make explicit) that other dwarves had also settled in the Grey Mountains during that period. In any event, it probably is safe to conclude that Thror/Gror were aware of (and perhaps participated in) the subsequent conflict with Fram.

    When I was thinking about this Fram/Scatha footnote for a riddle, it occurred to me for the first time to consider how much that incident may have influenced Thorin Oakenshield's actions vis a vis Bard and Thranduil. We have to remember that the literary conceit of The Hobbit is that it was written from Bilbo's perspective. Thorin no doubt would have related the incident differently (The Quest for Erebor in the RotK Appendices and similar material in Unfinished Tales demonstrate this concept pretty clearly). The same goes for the account of the sacking of Doriath by the dwarves of Nogrod in the Silmarillion (The Silmarillion being told from the perspective of the elves). In The Hobbit, JRRT states explicitly that the Doriath/Nauglamir conflict shaped Thorin's attitude toward Thranduil, even though it was long ago and the Longbeards had not been involved.
    Woohoo! I got one! I am very much enjoying this thread, but didn't think I'd get one right out of the hopper like that. Can I ask a question about logistics? As holder of the riddle stick, how long do I have to come up with something? Can I take a day or so? I'm sorry I don't have something immediately available, but with a little time I'm sure I can come up with something. Probably not as intricate as the ones you all have been bandying about - but something!

    Cheers!
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  14. #1389
    Oh, I don't think we have any set rules for that. Take your time. The natives may get restless after 4-5 days, but there are other riddle threads to keep us occupied. We don't normally jump in and declare the riddler's turn forfeit for inactivity until a couple of weeks have passed. It doesn't come up very often.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d00000003106c/signature.png]Celedriel[/charsig]

  15. #1390
    Probably not as intricate as the ones you all have been bandying about - but something!
    Good! I will have a shot then
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  16. #1391
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    okay, I have one. I have a couple, but I'm going to try this one first. Here you go!

    Filled Milled?
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  17. #1392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elessar2007 View Post
    okay, I have one. I have a couple, but I'm going to try this one first. Here you go!

    Filled Milled?
    hmmm... no responses. Much like Bilbo, I thought this would be an easy one, either it's proven a stumper, or everyone is on summer vacation.

    A small clue - I tried to keep to Vilnas "crossword" style clue, including the Capitalization, and the "?" but on second thought, am not entirely sure the "?" is warranted.
    [I][COLOR=#40e0d0]Slamfist of Landroval and Silverlode - Slamwise - Slamburger - Slamrat - and Joe[/COLOR][/I]
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  18. #1393
    As is the case with most of my guesses, this is likely clear out in right field, but here goes.

    Will Whitfoot, Mayor of the Shire, had the nickname "Old Flourdumpling," and he was likely the fattest hobbit in the Shire. As you can "mill" his namesake, flour, and he was obviously very "filled," my answer is Will Whitfoot.
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  19. #1394
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    Quote Originally Posted by knUk20 View Post
    As is the case with most of my guesses, this is likely clear out in right field, but here goes.

    Will Whitfoot, Mayor of the Shire, had the nickname "Old Flourdumpling," and he was likely the fattest hobbit in the Shire. As you can "mill" his namesake, flour, and he was obviously very "filled," my answer is Will Whitfoot.
    I knew it was an easy one! You have it! That's always been one of my favourite visuals of the book.

    /pass over the riddle stick.
    [I][COLOR=#40e0d0]Slamfist of Landroval and Silverlode - Slamwise - Slamburger - Slamrat - and Joe[/COLOR][/I]
    [COLOR=#ffff00]< [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=351547"]a Hobbit's Tale[/URL]> < [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?313127"]Behold the Chinchillas![/URL] > [/COLOR]

  20. #1395
    O_O

    Yikes. Now I gotta come up with something that can pass for a riddle. Gimme a minute.

    /takes riddle stick and stares unblinkingly at it in hopes of inspiration
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  21. #1396
    Alright got one. Likely a nice juicy slow-pitch softball, enjoy.

    inadvertent contact?
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  22. #1397
    The communication between Pippen and Sauron via the palantir? Pippen certainly didn't mean to contact Sauron, and Sauron was not expecting Pippen.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d00000003106c/signature.png]Celedriel[/charsig]

  23. #1398
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilnas View Post
    The communication between Pippen and Sauron via the palantir? Pippen certainly didn't mean to contact Sauron, and Sauron was not expecting Pippen.
    Well well. Not the answer I was looking for, but that certainly fits, I can't deny that. If you'd like the riddle stick it's all yours, I believe that is the protocol?
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  24. #1399
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    Quote Originally Posted by knUk20 View Post
    Alright got one. Likely a nice juicy slow-pitch softball, enjoy.

    inadvertent contact?
    There's so many that fit this clue!

    I know the riddle stick has passed on but can I still take a guess? My first thought is Bilbo trying to pick Tom's pocket and getting caught? That was inadvertant contact.
    [I][COLOR=#40e0d0]Slamfist of Landroval and Silverlode - Slamwise - Slamburger - Slamrat - and Joe[/COLOR][/I]
    [COLOR=#ffff00]< [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=351547"]a Hobbit's Tale[/URL]> < [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?313127"]Behold the Chinchillas![/URL] > [/COLOR]

  25. #1400
    Quote Originally Posted by Elessar2007 View Post
    There's so many that fit this clue!

    I know the riddle stick has passed on but can I still take a guess? My first thought is Bilbo trying to pick Tom's pocket and getting caught? That was inadvertant contact.
    Yikes. Looks like my first crack at this has ended in mild failure and embarrassment. I like Vilnas's solution a little better, so I think the stick stays with him.

    The actual answer I was looking for was the time Gandalf met Thorin on the road outside Bree - after describing the whole adventure of "The Hobbit" to the hobbits in Minas Tirith, Gandalf described the meeting as "A chance meeting, as we say in Middle Earth."

    If I ever answer another riddle, I shall strive to give a much more air-tight riddle in response than this go around.

    You're up Vilnas.
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